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Ingvi's Take, Episode 5: Losing a Friend

This week, Hooked Gamers' Senior Editor Ingvi Snædal has an intervention for Sony and discusses the ways they've been driving away lifelong fans.

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Dante1122098d ago (Edited 2098d ago )

Man, people are still crying about the OtherOS? That's driving people away? It was limited as heck and froze all the time and besides, blame Geohot for using it to pirate games and possible exploit Sony for a job (People always seem to forget what happened before it was taken away, he thought that Geohot didn't do anything XD). Guy acts like the "Jailbreak dongles" never happened lol.

Edit: Yeah, this guy is definitely a pirate. "Why can we use regular SD cards for Vita", maybe because that makes it easier to pirate games, also, games are saved internally on the Vita. The Vita's memory card is optional and even if you don't wanna buy one, you can always send you saves to the PS3 or to the online saving system according to Sony.

Christopher2098d ago

"What happened to the company that thought about the consumers first?"

They got screwed over by a good number of their users. Plain and simple, restrictions are put in place because people abused them. If people continue to abuse their system(s), they would eventually stop producing them as they will no longer be profitable.

JellyJelly2097d ago (Edited 2097d ago )

Backwards compability got abused?

If people abused one of Sonys services, should we really put the blame on the users? Doesn't Sony have a responsibility for researching and testing the services they put on offer?

First releasing something then restricting it because people don't use it as you wanted them too makes your company look bad.

Machioto2097d ago

They removed it for financial reason because it was costly to make the ps3 and have ps2 components on the same board.

ZombieAssassin2097d ago

Machioto pretty much summed it up but it was also because people wanted it to be more affordable and that was one of the things they could take out of it to greatly decrease the cost of production.

Christopher2097d ago

***Backwards compability got abused? ***

You'll note that this is not one of the things the video maker complained about, so it doesn't apply. All of his complaints were about OtherOS, PSN Hack, and now a proprietary format for Vita.

***If people abused one of Sonys services, should we really put the blame on the users?***

Where has Sony blamed the users as a whole? What they did is the best they could to ensure that the majority of their users can continue to get the services they expect.

***Sony have a responsibility for researching and testing the services they put on offer? ***

Your naivety is showing. Tell me, what technical device can you think of that operates like a PC and was put out since 2005 hasn't been hacked?

If you can answer that, then I'll give you a bit of leeway, otherwise it's obvious that in this age of technology, companies are having their products modified at a rate that they just can't handle or prevent.

***First releasing something then restricting it because people don't use it as you wanted them too makes your company look bad.***

Only if you're ignorant, which I agree that most users are. But, not acting on these actions because of the ignorance of others isn't a smart business decision.

Sony has a duty to its customers, which includes the third-parties that make games for their system. If they had left it as is, it would be the same issue as the PSP, wherein piracy and homebrew took over for a large number of users. Software sales plummeted, third-parties cut support, and Sony tried to combat this with a digital version of the product but couldn't save the product. Now, they are spending millions more on a product that once again is an attempt to fend off these issues and continue to provide its users with an option to play games while out and about.

Kiriel2098d ago

Many companies go through ups and downs in consumer popularity/loyalty and there's no denying Sony is in a downward trend. Often, success changes how a company looks at its customers and usually in a negative way. Support quality takes a dive, they stop listening because the voices are drowned out by the sheer volume and privacy and other consumer concerns become less important. Only 'humility' will change this and PSN going down was a good first start for that.

fei-hung2097d ago (Edited 2097d ago )

Many companies go through ups and downs and Sony has been through more downs this generation than any other console in history yet it has continued to give more at every turn where it mattered - GAMES!

e.g.

You do not buy an alarm clock for its DAB radio feature or its built in CD player, you buy it because it is an alarm clock.

Similarly, when you buy a Porsche, it lacks all the luxuries other cars have, but this is why you buy it, as it is meant to be a performance vehicle 1st and foremost before anything else.

The very same principle applies to the PS3 and Xbox. Yes they do many other things, but there is one thing they are meant to do more so than anything else which is supply you a ton of games to play.

Considering we have had this year alone and exclusive to the ps3:

1) DC Universe (which is now free to play and purchase of PSN)
2) LBP2 (create your own levels and share them for free)
3) Motorstorm 3
4) Killzone 3
5) Infamous 2 (with UGC MP)
6) UC3
7) ICO and SotC collection
8) Resistance 3
9) Ratchet and Clank all for 1
10) MLB the Show
11) MediEvil Moves

Knowing the above list doesn't confirm any of the rpg's which launched as well as PSN titles, I think the guy who wrote the article is living under a rock and doesn't know the purpose of a GAMING CONSOLE.

He might as well as be honest with himself and stop beating around the bush and just say, "I am a pirate and I dislike Sony for making it harder to play pirate games as I do not care about the wealth of content they deliver in terms of games and the fact I can play online for free. I just want to b**** and moan about the PS3 not being pirate friendly. Boo Hoo."

Kiriel2097d ago

I agree with you on a number of points (though you obviously haven't driven a Porsche :).

I don't agree with that the only reason to complain about these things is being able to pirate stuff. I know a number of people that have no wish to pirate anything but loved the PS3 for being able to use it as something more than just a console. The Blu-Ray drive was a major selling point for many to buy it as a media center, while using *nix software to actually have a decent way of playing Blu-Rays. And what to think of the large number of scientists that hooked up multiple PS3's to do use to do calculations for their research?

I agree with you that you buy the console to play games and that complaining about not being able to do non-intended stuff with it, is a bit tricky. But to those that used the machine for other purposes, I can certainly understand the disappointment.

Also, in Ingvi's case: he works for Hooked Gamers and gets most of his games for free (review copies anyone), so why should he pirate? :)

Games4M - Rob2097d ago

Just so you know the scientits who network all the PS3's are still able to use other OS since they didnt have to update the firmware which removed the feature.

Remember these machines are set up as pure number crunchers, they dont all log in to PSN to play Modern Warfare.

ZombieAssassin2097d ago (Edited 2097d ago )

I believe Sony also stated that they would still support things like the Army/etc with the otherOS just not your average customer.

Also just by looking at all of the video's this guy has made it looks like all he does is complain about stuff.

Ingvi2097d ago (Edited 2097d ago )

I am not a pirate, but thanks for bringing the subject up. I think I'll make it the subject of next week's episode.
As you bring the subject of GeoHot up, may I remind you that he only sought to bring back the OtherOS feature. Other hackers then used his work to enable piracy. As he himself stated in an interview with G4, he tried to circumvent the security measures blocking the OtherOS without enabling people to play pirated games.
I'm a Linux geek. I dual-boot both my PC and my MacBook with Ubuntu and do most of my browsing/writing on there. I loved being able to write from my comfy chair using a Bluetooth keyboard and watching my text come to life on my 32" TV. I didn't need the other cores as I only used the OS for writing. I was perfectly happy with it the way it was, but when it was taken away from me, that's when I became angry.
And on the subject of memory sticks proving that I am a pirate, how do you come to that conclusion? I had a Sony Ericson W810i mobile phone, which incidentally uses the same Memory Stick Duo as the PSP. I loved being able to have my music on 1 mem stick and listen on my phone when I went jogging, and my PSP when I was at home.

Most of the commenters to this video appear to be making the same false assumption as Sony on this subject. Just because we enjoyed the features they specifically designed for our comfort, does not mean we were abusing them. And because we were enjoying them, we are understandably pissed that they took them away.

An no. Consoles are not just about the games anymore. If they were, we'd all be playing on a Wii right now. The fact of the matter is that the console has evolved, anyone who cannot see that fact has obviously been living under a bolder. We expect our systems to be able to do certain things more than playing games, playing music, films and browsing the net are just a few examples. Running linux was one of them, as Sony heavily advertised the fact at the PS3's launch. If they were only about the games, Sony and Microsoft should just cancel their R&D in other areas, make simple gaming consoles and sell them for a quarter of the price of current gen consoles. I'd be perfectly fine with that, as then I wouldn't have more expectations to my system. Expectations that would ultimately be crushed by corporate greed, generalisation and over-reaction.

supremacy2097d ago

Bro I think you are reaching for straws with this. While yes I agree there were people out there that made use of the feature the number of those that didnt far exceeded those that did. I mean I have not heard much more of this dead horse topic in a while until you just brought it up just now, which just goes to prove my point even so.
Anyway in the grand scheme of things removing the feature was probably the best thing they did since the hack attempts started taking place. Its like the military, one men screws up and the rest must pay the consequence, its that simple.

Geohot tried to bring back a feature Sony took off, on his own, under his own power and under his own juristiction with stolen codes (which he tried taking credit for before denying any of it in court) all with his own intentions, nothing more, nothing less.

Ps3 is primarly a gaming console and should be viewed as such, bluray to my knowledge has always been a selling point to Sony one they actually have invested a lot of time, man power, money and resources to get up to speed.

The other O.S is just that, the other O.S, something which has nothing to do, nor ties Sony's others endevours like Licensed gaming to it. If I recall correctly Sony did mention that if one did not want to lose the feature, one simply must not update their system and be left without psn access. Free access which many fail to realize or even bother reading the terms of agreement, because lets face it; one can own the physical box just not the network its on.

Furthermore...
Bluray is not just for watching movies, it also happens to be their gaming format. Apple, MS, Google ect all at one point or another has done and are likely to continue to do what Sony did by advertizing something then suddenly removing it from the picture.

Yet, I dont hear much of anything about them in this regards. Seriously its not that serious.

Christopher2097d ago

***As you bring the subject of GeoHot up, may I remind you that he only sought to bring back the OtherOS feature.***

Yes, but he is not ignorant and knew that bringing that back would also lead to piracy. First week after he released his CFW, there were people who had ways to back up games to the HDD and play games without a disc. Guess what, that's piracy.

GeoHot can scream all he wants that he is against piracy, but he in turn gave them the weapon they needed to make it possible.

fei-hung2097d ago

Fair enough you are not a pirate and we should have not assumed.

However, your complaint is nothing but a rant at a console which is to primarily and foremost above anything else provide you with a gaming experience. To help explain this:

e.g

I buy a car and it has a cigerette lighter, a CD player, a radio, a cup holder or 2 and a Sat Nav.

I buy the car and I get all the other features with it. All the features are advertised since they are part and package. However, if a year down the line if my cigerette lighter stopped functioning i wouldn't complain or if the cupholder broke.

Also all cars are limited, meaning non of them reach their top speeds, if they have turbo's they don't fully use the full bhp they are capable off and nor do they accelerate as quick as they should. Meaning you are buying a car fully but not make take advantage of all it is capable off.

I do not see any professional car reviewer complaining about these things as you have with Sony.

As a game, your complaint would be valid had Sony dropped support on games. If anything, they have provided us with plenty of games and a free online gaming service and even added functions such as Tv channels, music streaming service called Vidzone, a free online world with free games called HOME, internet browser.

Considering the price point, what the competition is offering and the fact that above and beyond all, primarily 99% of people who probably buy a ps3 do it for gaming, how do you expect your personal rant to effect those who are gamers?

You are part of a gaming website, your readers are gamers, you have submitted your article on a site which is primarily focused on gamers making everything you rant on about a fail.

We appreciate you can't use your other OS feature and it has caused you some problems, but I think the majority of us would rather lose other OS than Sony stop supporting their true fans who buy their consoles for the games 1st and foremost.

Ingvi2097d ago (Edited 2097d ago )

I wholeheartedly agree with you that Games are the number one concern when it comes to a console, but I must take issue with your analogy of the car.

Things breaking down is very normal. One of the two USB ports on my PS3 has already ceased functioning and I'm not complaining about that. After all, the thing is 4 years old. But this is not like the cup holder breaking or the cigarette lighter not heating up anymore, this is more like representatives of the car company showing up at your doorstep, demanding that you give them the car's satellite navigation system or they'll remove the drive-shaft.

We all payed for our Playstations. Part of the price tag was the OtherOS feature. The way I see it, I had already payed for that feature and two years later it was taken away from me. How is that not theft?

This is not about which feature is more important or more lucrative, we all agree that it's ultimately about the games. But it's a matter of principal that once you've paid for something, nobody should have the right to take it away from you.

And updating was not a choice. As I said in the video, the choice was between updating and losing the OtherOS feature, or the PS3 becoming useless. It was not simply the Playstation Network that would have ceased functioning, but Blu-ray support and the ability to play games released after september that year as well. What kind of a "choice" is that?

joeorc2096d ago (Edited 2096d ago )

Hacking, is fine an dandy, but when you know full well if what you post on the world wide web would damage a companies ability to recoup money than what do you think would happen?

Back in 2008 the exploit Geohot used was a boad jumper techinque in order to gain access to the hardware levels. Rev. Engineering is for research purpose only, but on the same token telling i donot condone piracy an helping others to do it, knowing full well your efforts would infact do that, is no excuse to feign, well i blocked off the ability to use my info for piracy, when he himself is a hacker?
Come on, you cannot tell me he would not know what they would do with the info. Or have a pretty good idea when he himself admitted in a security forum it would lead to blu-ray disc dumps let alone the other security issues. When sony released the ps3 the linux kern, had an exploit that had no suprize a loss of a random key gen. So unless those very same hackers would have been kind to patch their kernal. Sony of course could not force them to patch it. The only choice left to Sony was to fw update the removal option of other Os out of the Xmb. Which by the way belongs to Sony the Os software of the Ps3 belongs to sony just like windows os belongs to microsoft its a licence of software.

You did not buy your ps3's Os.
One only has to look at what happened to the Psp with Umd Dumps.
THAT CARD THE VITA uses is a SD card, its a form factor change to help protect anagainst Piracy measures.

When the few ruin it for the many that's the probem, restraint is the term your looking for. You notice Ben Heck does not have people breathing down his neck for damages of their company to recoup losses.

The fact once again out of the 3 sony was the only one who even offered an opensource Os to be an option if you wanted, the Vita now has the exact same chipset that smartphones an tablets use with Api's that developers indie ccan get full access to the Gpu an evey bit of chipset onboard. With that they can even use Android Os software development tools along with the playstation suite tool chain. So they can make Home brew but already firmware extractor is already being talked about? What's their excuse now?

Im a Hacker myself. But i know prudence an restraint.
Maybe because many young hackers today have quite good skills but donot practice such restraint. The fact it is it was an "oprtional" function that the home user could install. It was just that an option in the Xmb. That's like Dos was an option in windows it came with the Os but the consumer does not get to choose to put some back in expect access to an online structure that, if you Cfw your Ps3, Sony is not going to allow exloited systems ontheir Psn. You could keep the "other Os" on your Ps3. but Sony was not going sit by an not challenge some of those very same hackers going into the Psn developer network an add funds to their online wallet an steal games, because What would those hackers say about patching that linux kernal exploit?

DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD AGREE TO THAT?

An Linux did no5 come preinstalled on your ps3 it was not heavy advertised

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ZombieAssassin2097d ago (Edited 2097d ago )

IMO Sony comes through were it matters most and that's games, yea it's lame they took away OtherOS but we all know why they did it (jailbreaking) whether or not people used it for legitimate means or not they have an obligation to try and protect their property and 3rd party partners which is better for gamers because look what happened to the PSP it was pirated to all hell and doesn't get all that much support and hasn't for a while.

Also I don't think they're really driving anyone away, I believe the Ps3 is the 3rd fastest selling home console of all time.

Ingvi2097d ago (Edited 2097d ago )

In my opinion, their obligations lie with the consumer. It is ultimately the consumer that controls the corporation's fate, not the 3rd party developers. We are the ones who finance them. Without us, they crumble. Without good games, no one buys their console, but if no one buys their console, developers won't make games for their system. It is a delicate balance, I know, but the key ingredient is still the consumer.

I agree that Sony needed to nip piracy in the bud, but stealing from consumers was not the answer. It's the equivalent of a few customers robbing a bank, and the bank takes funds out of everyone's account to make up for the losses. Would you be happy with buying a car and then 2 years later having someone show up at your doorstep to remove the navigation system?
It is simply not OK.

They fought piracy by becoming thieves. They burned the house down to get rid of the mice. They treated everyone as a suspect, and I'm not sure I'll ever trust them again. Don't think they're driving anyone away? Well, they'll have to try very hard to get me back and I've bought every one of their consoles on launch day.

Games4M - Rob2097d ago (Edited 2097d ago )

I agree with some of your points but you are being far too overdramatic and as a result some of the comments you are making here are just silly.

Also your defence of Geohot a few posts above is equally ridiculous.

ZombieAssassin2097d ago (Edited 2097d ago )

"It's the equivalent of a few customers robbing a bank, and the bank takes funds out of everyone's account to make up for the losses"

No it's not, you're blowing it out of proportion and you sound like someone who is bitter because you're one of those people who feel like they are entitled.

I do agree though that we the consumer are the ones who control the fate (not really thats investors but whatev I'll agree just because).

In all honestly though it is their product and in this age with updates you have to get use to this sort of thing. Also you didn't have to update your ps3 if it bothered you that much...you had a choice not saying it's a good one but you had one.

"They fought piracy by becoming thieves. They burned the house down to get rid of the mice. They treated everyone as a suspect, and I'm not sure I'll ever trust them again. Don't think they're driving anyone away? Well, they'll have to try very hard to get me back and I've bought every one of their consoles on launch day. "

Trust them? What else have they really taken away other than the OtherOS? Yea the took BC away but if you really wanted it you can still find BC Ps3's if you look around (with Amazon you don't have too look too hard either). To your point also they took away BC to get the price down because the CONSUMER wanted it to be more affordable.

Anyways like I said you sound like a bitter customer and if you don't have "faith" in them anymore switch to the xbox or wii or pc...no ones forcing you to stay loyal to a brand....although you prolly just made this video to get hits so congrates it'll work.

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