David Houghton: I’m creating a clever (and marginally disgusting) allegory for Bethesda’s broken-as-all-hell PS3 version of Skyrim. It is you see, fundamentally messed up on a level that I view as patently unfit for release. And apparently Bethesda had no idea that the game it had spent years building and testing was so broken. I mean it can’t have known. Otherwise it’s quietly, knowingly released a busted product and cynically dicked over a large part of its fan-base. And the worst part? I saw this coming weeks ago. And it’s partly that very fan-base’s fault.
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There have been some issues on my PS3 playing Skyrim, BUT NONE HAVE RENDERED THE GAME UNPLAYABLE BY ANY STRETCH of the imagination. Others may have not been so lucky...
Still, I hope Bethesda does something about this.
8.5MB save, very few troubles.
It isnt 2006 anymore. Sorry guys get your asses in gear.
Wait didnt Oblivion actually play better on PS3? If so why would they not put the same amount into this game?
Once my Skyrim save file hit double digits, the game became unplayable. Seriously, I was getting 6-8 frames per second within 15 minutes of booting the game up. It's BROKEN and should never have been released in this state.
A patch may or may not fix the lag problem, but given Bethesda's poor support for the PS3 versions of Fallout 3 and New Vegas, I chose not to hold my breath for one. Returned the game last night and *if* I do rebuy, it will be for another platform.
lazy developers. Do you have any idea how much stuff you have to learn to get to that position?
It's not about being lazy, it's about having a standard for workplace quality. When the console maker decides to stop thinking about its own pockets and about "extending the life of the console blah blah blah," and starts thinking about how it can make life easier for the developers, then Bethesda can start giving a crap about the PS3.
It wasn't Bethesda's fault to deliberately making the PS3 a difficult console to work with. That was Sony's volition. Bethesda does the best they can with the time, money, tools, and hardware they have to work with. If Sony can't respect that, then they're the ones to blame.
So, lazy developers is accurate when the evidence backs it up.
That is a 5 or 6 year old comment, how many developers complain about the PS3 being difficult to develop for? Even Gabe Newell doesn't complain anymore, why? because he understands it. I'm not Calling Bethesda lazy because even the most crappy games take a lot of work. But if they would have paid as much to the PS3 version as they it's counter-parts, this would be a lesser issue. Get out of 2006 dude.
Personally I don't know if this is wide spread but it has me worried because I really wanted and Kinda still want Skyrim.
It'll be people trying to play a game for 25 to 35+ hours straight.
You generally can't do that on any platform even on the PC games will fall apart at those lengths of time, simply because over time data becomes corrupt and if you save that corrupt data then it won't load up properly again there after and you lose all the data.
The devs will be expecting people to really only play the game for 2 to 8 hours max in a session.
But the kids and people with no jobs will be playing the game at stupid lengths of time.
That corrupt data over time happens on all platforms and all sorts of games, hearts of iron does it after so many hours as well.
It's also a problem of 32bit programs where you can only allocate 2gig max of memory in a block, and it becomes harder for the CPU to cache all this data properly as the cache will only hold say 512kb of cache per CPU and stuff.
it's just the limits of the tech not the program, you can't alter tech limits via software.
The main reason why you don't see it from many devs is that most consoles games are only FPSes and platformers and stuff nothing that would be trying to hit up a database and reading/writing data to all the time and using memory to hold the data.
In RPG games you'll be caching and reading/writing data you almost everything in-game, like a sword that could be a default one but changes when you add a gem needs to always kept in memory and when you hit up a NPC and then go and do a wuest you need to hold the quest objectives and then hold the data for the NPC you last hit up so the game can keep track of everything your doing in the game.
there's a huge difference between a FPS or plat former and only needing to know when something got hit and is dead and need to be removed in 5 seconds and a RPG trying to hold data for the whole of the USA and everything in that country, while also keeping a track of everything you do and touch with everything in that country.
Yes, Skyrim is large game. They chose to make it multiplat. You can't just phone in one version because you don't like the architecture. When even Gabe Newell stops complaining about the PS3's architecture, then you know that anyone else still whining about it is just spewing B.S. because they're lazy.
There's no excuse for a framerate of 6fps and continual freezing. There is no excuse for forcing the modding community for the PC version to fix the problems for free. Bethesda are lazy, and it's as simple as that. If they can't take the time to make sure this massive bugs are ironed out, they shouldn't even start making the game at all.
The reason why other games don't have as many bugs or glitches is because most other multiplatform games are not open world games with a large scope.
Secondly, the PS3 is as hard to develop for today as it was 5 years ago. There are still 6 SPEs which have to be separately coded and complied for, which means Bethesda has to do 6 times the work to get things running on the PS3 than on the 360, because Microsoft made it so that the compiler for their 360 will automatically split up the work to the 3 cores.
Why is it that Microsoft thought of this but Sony didn't?
Why did Sony defend their stupid decision to make the PS3 harder to program for instead of manning up to their mistakes?
And what exactly has happened since 5 years ago that makes you think the PS3 is easier to develop for now?
You guys also make the mistake of assuming that most developers don't complain about PS3 development now.
That's an appeal to ignorance. "If I can't see it, then it's not happening."
It is not in the nature for a developer to be lazy. Being a developer means you worked your ass off to get to where you are.
Most of us couldn't program a simple calculator application, yet these people are creating massive, detailed environments populated with characters who behave in certain ways and react to the behavior of the player. That's not easy to do.
Bethesda optimized their engine to work well on PC and 360. Sony decided to make their console different.
Why? Don't blame Bethesda. Gabe Newell's statements were spot on 5 years ago. All the ass-kissing he's doing now stems from the fact that his company is in it for the money.
It's like they've never heard of testers.
@kav, quit white knighting for the devs. They sold a broken product.
When all the other devs have come to grips with the PS3's architecture, when the most vocal of naysayers have shut up or began praising the PS3, how can you sit there and defend Bethesda for releasing a p*ss poor port (aliteration for the win) full of bugs for the, what, 4th time now?
This is Bethesda's track record. They are lazy coders. Just because you are making a massive game, doesn't mean you aren't a lazy coder. They simply do not want to put in the work to make the game have minimal bugs. IT'S THEM! Not the PS3. Remember the saying, it is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
How come there are many great 3rd party developers making exceptional PS3 versions of their multiplatform games, but yet Bethesda keeps bringing out the trash in terms of bugs? How is that the PS3's fault? It isn't. Simply put, the vast amount of excellent 3rd party games that don't have the issues that Bethesda games have on the PS3 more than refutes your argument.
Bethesda released a broken product, period. They're just lucky they have a free labor force on the PC that will fix their broken game without any compensation whatsoever. But to say that it's not a broken game, and that it's the consoles fault, is completely wrong. The PS3 didn't develop Skyrim, Bethesda did. You can sit there ignoring that fact all you want, doesn't make it go away.
Because no other developer has created a game as deep or content packed as Bethesda. The Uncharteds, Killzones, GTAs, (etc.) of the gaming industry can go on virtually bugless because they have NOWHERE NEAR the amount of content that a Bethesda game does. Those games run fine because they don't have to run very much or deal with very much, as they only really have to focus on running the graphics and the very simplistic gameplay.
"Take a look at Demon's/Dark Souls. There is plenty of evidence to back up the statement that it is all Bethesda's fault that Skyrim on the PS3 has so many problems."
Sorry, but if you think DS counts as evidence, then I feel sorry for you. Demon/Dark Souls runs fine because it's nowhere near as complex or deep as Skyrim.
Want to prove to me that Bethesda are lazy devs? Then show me a game that is as deep, complex, long, deep, well designed, while still managing to look as good as Skyrim and maybe I'll listen to you, but as long as you are still using your sorry ass argument by comparing other more primitive games like Dark/Demons Souls, then your claims are worthless.
Just because you do not have problems doesn't mean others don't, plus the fact that Skyrim is open-world and there are thousand ways to play it, the problem may not manifest in all play-throughs.
Now I know why play-tester were doing speed-runs :)
http://www.geek.com/article...
Your PS3 game ports all suck donkey balls ever since your first game. fallout.
I did not buy any of your games ever since.
Bioware and mass effect 2 PS3 is an example of an excellent port.
http://www.gamepro.com/arti...
Bethesda afraid of hard work? I don't think we're talking about the same company. Do you have any idea how much work has to be put to make a game like skyrim?
You guys make it sound like making a game is so easy,codeing and making games can be really hard to do,it dosen't happen over night it is a long and tedious thing to make games for what you got in skyrim you should be really happy.No game is perfect but there are a lot of good games.
That is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. Blame should not fall on Sony for developers that are too inept to program for their system.
If Bethesda has trouble programming for the PS3, they should not still be releasing games for the PS3.
It is indisputably 100% Bethesda's fault. Sony did not force them to release a version for their system, and consumers are simply operating under the false pretense that Bethesda would not release a product that did not work. It is BETHESDA'S FAULT.
Love the game on my PC though, I gotta say...
The PS3 hardware was ineptly designed. Developers shouldn't have to drastically alter their coding to get things up and running on the PS3.
Considering their games sell more on 360 and PC, I can completely understand why Bethesda doesn't like coding for the PS3. What's the benefit?
"Hey, let's work 6 times harder and spend a ton more money to get less sales on this platform."
There's a dichotomy on this site.
You have people praising Sony for learning from their past mistakes with the PS Vita. Even Sony has said that they've made sure the developers have an easy time coding for the Vita.
And you have people on this site pretending like Sony didn't even make a mistake with the PS3. They spin it to make it sound like making the PS3 harder to code for was actually a good thing. It's not.
There is no excuse for it.
Even if I was willing to grant you that developers still haven't "figured out" the Sony architecture (which, I would think that Oblivion's optimization on the system would throw that theory out the window), it would still be Bethesda's fault for knowingly releasing a broken product.
That's cause I like gaming on my PS3 more than my 360. Every time I play my 360, I keep waiting for it to crap out on me.
Until they start losing serious money, this "launch a broken game and fix it when we fix it" situation will continue to get worse.
if you have a problem with the way a company does business, just stop feeding them with your cash. it's a very simple solution. i don't understand why people have become such brainless consumers.
companies want money, if you stop giving it to them, they'll change their ways to bring back their customers. that's how a free-market works.
for example: activision is perfectly happy releasing the same boring, crappy looking COD game every year because 10-20 million of you people are idiot consumers. if you stopped buying, we'd probably have a new COD engine by now.
Save file: 6.1MB
Freezes: None. Not even one.
Framerate drops: Very occasionally. No big deal.
Overall experience: Nearly perfect.
Freezes: Extremely High.
Framerate drops: Extremely often, almost impossible to play.
Overall experience: It's really just damaging my outlook on skyrim. Love the game still, but I don't even feel like playing it. :|
As far as the graphics debate goes, if you want the stellar graphics on this game, start saving up for a gaming rig. Once you've got it running on PC in a couple of months, Mods will have fixed everything Bethesda "overlooked." Its what I'm saving up for. ;)
take this for what it's worth.
Yeah, the PS3 is the MOST buggy version of Skyrim, but all three are glitch-ridden messes.
Bethesda makes a fun game, but they somehow think that gives them carte blanche to skip the QA process.
I typically am extremely against making excuses for devs, but here is the only excuse I'll make for a developer:
Bethesda makes BY FAR the most complex open-world games. PUHLEEEEZE don't even compare Dark Souls or Arkham City to Skyrim. Sure, both of those games are amazing in their own right, but the complexity and freedom of those two games doesn't even remotely come anywhere near Skyrim. That said, you just can't compare the amount of testing that needs to go into a game like Skyrim. Almost infinite combinations of glitch inducing scenarios exist, combined with 400-500 hours of gameplay. What does it take to beat Arkham City or Dark Souls? 40-80 hours? Both combined don't even come NEAR the amount of content in Skyrim.
If you can't see the insane complexity in a Bethesda game, you just don't have any grasp on how games are made.
Again, if you don't think one of the most interactive gaming masterpieces like Skyrim is worth a few bumps in the road, then sell it, pick up that new Uncharted rail shooter and enjoy a game that offers zero complexity and zero interactivity.
I know you can't reply to this seeing as you have one bubble, but i thought i would reply to your comment anyway.
What is wrong with playing a linear game like Uncharted? I don't want all my games to be open world 200 hours story games. I do enjoy RPG games like Demon's Souls and Final Fantasy, but sometimes i feel like playing some brainless shooters like COD, or sometimes i want a cinematic experience like Dead Space or Uncharted.
Let me say this loud and clear.
NOT ALL GAMES HAVE TO BE OPEN WORLD RPGS.
I would reply to your comment of Uncharted being a rail shooter but that is perhaps the most retarded comment iv'e read on N4G.
He wasn't talking about your PC asshole.
this is coming from someone thats played every bethesda game available on PS3. Its always them.
360 and pc are also reporting bugs a plenty so don't let one persons rant put you off the PS3 version
The only thing with Fallout is I made a point of doing a manual save every 30 minutes or so just in case I froze at all.... and I had maybe 10 freezes during the whole play through.
Wow, this conversation was boring 5 years ago when I bought my PS3. No one cares.
Probably because Skyrim sold over 3 million in a few days anyway.
Why do it if you don't have to?
That's not how I like to look at it, but I'm sure that's how they do.
Learn to code Bugthesda... it really is sad.
Fallout 3 froze my PS3 over 30 times. Most times I had to switch it off from the back. I do not doubt it lead to my consoles eventual death. Not even to mention the pop up notification freeze at the beginning. What a joke.
It's their job, its a AAA title and they still fuck it up? What's up with that? Fallout 3 and NV AND Oblivion all froze on me too. On the Xbox. And NV was buggy as hell. Terrible. Don't get me wrong, I love their games, but it's ridiculous how games are made these days with fixing it later (if at all).
On the PC there are modders who took their own time (And they obviously dont get as much paid for it as bethesda's employees, if at all) and managed to fix up most of the bugs in NV. More than bethesda ever did.
That's pretty horrible logic.
Best advise for you guys is just back up your saves every once in a while and reboot the game every couple of hours or so.
People seem to forget that oblivion on PS3 came out a year after it first came out on 360 and PC so they had extra time to develop/port it.
also, all the space on blu ray in the world wont make the PS3 suddenly more powerful. The textures are not good because of the old ass GPU and small amount of ram, especially video ram. You can put the highest rez textures in the world on a bluray or even a DCD and it wont matter because the consoles are too old to have such detailed textures all over a huge open world game.
"Our consoles cant repel fire from a developer of that magnitude!!"
It also freezes once in a blue moon, but I think that's just my system because it has happened to me in almost every game once at least.
Otherwise, they did a great job with the game, only minor issues.
XperiaRay
It's time for Occupy Bethesda
If Skyrim really is as broken as people are making it out to be, don't buy it. If you already bought it then sell it to gamestop and trade it in for a game made by developers who don't screw PS3 owners over time and time again.
The "gravity of the situation?"
Dude, lighten up. It's not like the the Russians are nuking us.
It's a game, turn off autosaves, and enjoy it. If you can't,
take it back and stfu.
fps over - 100
graphic - okay even in ultra
console port - yes
running and looking better than console - yes
glitches - some
crashing/freezing - none
overall experience - good with controller
Price paid - 0.
Don't flame me. This is the first game I ever got illegally. I was just upset that they ripped me pretty good with Fallout 3. Never finished that game 'coz of constant crashing problem.
The time has come to set aside all console/PC allegiances. No gamer deserves to not enjoy this game.
This is very important.
Play Time: 71hrs.17min.57sec
Only experience frame rate drops at around 5-6 hours of play. All I have to do is save, and re-load. Then everything's fine. I have no Idea were the whole "game is broken at 30hrs" thing is coming from. When I experience frame rate problems it's just a couple of hiccups when I first enter new areas. Just enough to be annoying. Nothing like what's in the videos. =/
Those of you who cant play it are missing out on one of the best games I've ever played. Hope you get things worked out.