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Submitted by shenglongg 1132d ago | article

New Xbox With Six-Core CPU and “Dual-GPU” From AMD (Rumor Analysis)

Pinoytutorial: Here's an analysis with the previous rumor we've heard today about the next-gen Xbox ("Xbox 720") powered by a six-core CPU with a prototype dual-GPU from AMD. And its partial announcement will be noted by Microsoft on CES 2012. More details on this report.

So do you think a "hexa-core" type of CPU with dual-GPU will be enough for Xbox 720? Show your comments below. (Next-Gen, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

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Shackdaddy836  +   1133d ago
For the CPU, it depends more on the clock speed. Cores are great and all and they do matter to an extent, but clock speed is more important when you take gaming into account. I would like to see a rumor on the clock speed before I make any decisions.

Dual-GPU sounds very doubtful to me.
1. That would be a lot more expensive
2. It would create a ton of heat requiring more efficient cooling for the case
3. It would be bulkier probably forcing Micro to have a bigger case than they probably want.

Also RAM is a big factor for games. I think there was a rumor about RAM somewhere as well.
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MaxMurdoch  +   1132d ago
1. That would be a lot more expensive

Wrong. Dual gpu is cheaper than single gpu, and offers more power.

2. It would create a ton of heat requiring more efficient cooling for the case

Possibly, but not probably. AMD gpus are pretty efficient and dont make that much heat.

3. It would be bulkier probably forcing Micro to have a bigger case than they probably want.

Unless you know which dual gpu they intend to use, you cant make that assumption.
Shackdaddy836  +   1132d ago
Dual GPUs are not cheaper than a single GPU. It's cheaper than two single GPUs but not one. IDK where you would get that from....

Anyways, if the rumors about the nextbox's GPU being dx11 capable are true, then having a dual GPU would be outrageously expensive for a console.
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DeadlyFire  +   1132d ago
Depends on power. Dual GPU low end GPU is very cheap compared to Single GPU High end. It couuld potentially be either. If its Dual GPU High end then it will be expensive, but not much of an effect on final console price either way.

DirectX 11 will be supported regardless.

I personally am a little surprised at 6 core CPU. Is it AMD or Power based? Thread count I am wondering. If Power based then its up to 4 threads per core. If AMD based its likely just 2 threads per core. If WiiU has 12 threads, Xbox 720 has 12 threads. Similar scale GPU as well is likely. Even if dual GPU graphics likely will start out on a similar level next generation. Really exciting for Nintendo fans.
inveni0  +   1132d ago
First, I disagree that clock speed is more important than number of cores. We can only get so fast with processor speeds, and the current consoles are already very fast with regard to their processors (3-core in 360 and the SPU set-up in PS3). They really don't have much room when it comes to clock speeds. So more cores sounds likely. 6-core might be a little high, though. For costs, using a good 4-core would give a lot of improvement over the current processor.

As for dual-core GPU...nope. It ain't happen'n. They need to keep costs down to stay competitive with Nintendo. So, at best, we'll probably see something similar to the equivalent of the NVidia GT560...

Most likely, however, they'll be using the APUs AMD recently released.
Sarcasm  +   1132d ago
Whoever said more cores or more clock speed is both wrong. A better architecture is far more important. Don't believe me? Compare an i7-2600K clocked at 3.4ghz vs a i7-920 clock for clock. The 2600K is much faster.

So if anything, let's hope they put an extremely efficient CPU in that thing.
inveni0  +   1132d ago
@Sarcasm
What you're referring to is simply an improvement in the design of processors over time. Of course no one wants them to use 4-core 3.2GHz processors that were created 4 years ago. The same number of cores and clock speeds from today's models are what we're looking for.
steve30x  +   1132d ago
@ MaxMurdoch : So are you telling me a dual GTX580 would be cheaper than a GTX580 LOL. I've heard it all now.

@ Shackdaddy836 : You speak about having dual GPU's creatring too much heat , but still you want an overclocked CPU which will also cause a lot of heat. You need a CPU that will run @ at about 3.6GHZ 4 core's that wont cause a lot of heat like AMD chips. The Intel 2600K or 2700K would be perfect because at stock speeds they run cooler than the AMD CPU's and are much faster at stock speeds than a highly overclocked AMD CPU , thats including the newest AMD Bulldozer 8 core CPU's that are very hot and arent as fast as the Intel 2600K.
frostypants  +   1132d ago
No way will they go dual-GPU. That's an expansion solution, not an out-of-the-box solution. It's more efficient to go single powerful GPU, assuming they aren't going for bleeding-edge (which they won't).
vulcanproject  +   1132d ago | Intelligent
I said for a while Dual GPU would actually be possible, and actually fairly smart to start with and work well in consoles because the developers would be able to code for it.

Why? Well it is a well known fact that two midrange GPUs can edge out a high end, very expensive GPU, while not actually costing any more. One recent example being GTX560 SLI comfortably bests a single GTX580, but actually costs less! This has been going on for some time now and there are prior examples of most generations. 5750 crossfire usually beating or at least matching one GTX285 for considerably less cost.

How is this possible? Simple, midrange or lower mid parts are much much easier and most importantly cheaper to make. They will always have better yields, wider tolerances than big, hot, brand new cutting edge designs.

In short it is far more difficult and often more expensive and ultimately slower to build one big fast chip than it is to just design two smaller slower ones and run them together.

Besides the fact on PC games heavily rely on driver level optimisations to work properly with dual GPUs, console games would have no such hurdles. A developer would design the game to specifically use both GPUs to maximum every time. This is why console hardware is more efficient with its assets anyway, PC does use brute force to beat it.

Designing a good midrange GPU, pairing them together on a hugely fast bandwidth bus and fitting them to a console does actually make more financial and developmental sense than you might imagine.
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Arksine  +   1132d ago
SLI/Crossfire in a console is not happening. The power requirements are too high, the heat output is too much, and eliminating microstutter is a developers nightmare.
darthv72  +   1132d ago
hmmm
is the notion of "dual gpu" any different than a dual core gpu? I can see in the current PC trend of having two physical boards in sli/crossfire but if this were a refined gpu (like a console generally uses) it could be a dual core gpu.

A six core cpu isnt that hard to believe. We live and play in a world where quad is the norm these days with 8 core cpus and 32 core and 64 core etc.

also, clock speed isnt reflective of performance. There are chips out that run slower but do more per clock cycle than a really fast chip that cant do as much.

An efficient chip could be clocked down to lets say...2ghz or even 1ghz but because of the way it is designed, it handels the amount of data that a chip running at 3.2+ghz would process at the same rate.

Things are getting smaller and slower in the "speed" sense but they are getting faster in the efficiency sense.
Shackdaddy836  +   1132d ago
@Steve where did I say I wanted an overclocked CPU? You don't overclock a CPU on a console. That's just dumb.
frjoethesecond  +   1132d ago
@ Arksine

+bubbles.

As long as microstuttering exists in a dual GPU setup it'll be a severe limitation for a console. I'd be very surprised to see a dual gpu in a console.

Kudos for mentioning microstutter.
Kurylo3d  +   1132d ago
@steve30x

when he means dual gpu are faster and cheaper he doesnt mean 2 580s are less expensive then 1 580... he mans 2 gtx 560s are both faster and cheaper then a single 580.
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gta2800  +   1132d ago
I love how everyone at N4G becomes a computer engineer when ever articles like this make it on here lol.
vulcanproject  +   1132d ago
Hmmm some people still thinking inside the box. Micro stuttering is heavily, heavily, heavily driver and bandwidth dependent on a windows PC, using Direct X, and a standard PCIE bus. As i said, if the GPUs are connected with a very high speed bus and developers are aware of the maximal load of this bus micro stuttering would not exist. They probably couldn't exceed it anyway. This is why microstutter usually doesn't happen for those people who have powerful PC setups because they have so much bandwidth they can't see any microstutter. A high speed bus would not be hard to create in fixed hardware like a console for two GPUs to communicate. 5 years ago microsoft employed one to shuttle between the mother and daughter die of their seperated GPU designs. Works well to my eye.

A console would simply not suffer this problem as long as the developer was aware of what they were doing, and the console was engineered correctly. At the design stage this would be eliminated, thanks in no small part that consoles don't have driver software, developers have direct to metal access to the hardware. Very low level access. A massive part of the stutter problem are the driver interactions on PC. These don't exist on a console...

As for the power and heat yet again why are people citing this as if it would only be cramming two very high end parts in there and not two midrange ones??

A pair of Radeon 6850s pull LESS peak power and thus less heat to dissipate than a single GTX470. http://www.guru3d.com/artic... Certainly no more than even a single GTX580 and they are considerably faster!!! http://www.guru3d.com/artic... See how they stomp GTX480, despite the fact they are hindered by drivers that suck away some efficiency.

AMD know what they are doing now when it comes to power efficiency, for several years they have had the philosophy of building smaller parts than Nvidia and controlling power consumption knowing two such cards would beat one big expensive Nvidia one.
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Blackdeath_663  +   1132d ago
all you need to have is logic to find out that 2 of something cost more than one of the same thing
Computersaysno  +   1132d ago
Syncing identical graphics processors inside a console would be pretty easy and stop microstutter. As vulcanproject said microstutter is a problem that has unique circumstances on a PC for why it exists. Such things as vastly different motherboards, memory, hardware and software components make it hard to eliminate microstutter totally on PC. It has improved a lot since the early days of SLI/Xfire tho!

On a closed set designed machine where everyone has the same hardware and software set and configuration like a dedicated console then it wouldnt be an issue.

Besides this the Saturn had a bunch of multiple processors inc a pair each of identical graphics and central processors. At the time it was too complex and expensive to make as it wasnt mainstream but it has been done before in consoles. Now the tech has been sorted and advanced a lot it would work!
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Masta_fro  +   1132d ago
@Blackdeath...

Ok so let me explain this in logical terms so that maybe you and Shackdaddy can understand.

If i have one really big stick that costs 20 cents, but too slightly smaller sticks that costs 8 cents each, if i tape the two slightly smaller sticks together with super glue, ill have a longer stick than the 20 cents stick, but for only 16 cents.

Read that a couple of times, then stop pretending you know anything about computer hardware.
vulcanproject  +   1132d ago
Yep, the saturn used dual graphics. It used dual graphics by splitting the tasks fairly strictly between them, which made it hard to develop for. Dynamic load balancing wasn't a concept that had been explored much on multi GPU systems back then.

AFR (alternate frame rendering) is the typical technique for PC multiple GPU systems which is more prone to stutter. It is mainly used because this is the easiest and most practical way to make as many games as possible function and see a performance boost with more than one GPU on a wide variation of hardware. It isn't well optimised, but it works for the most part, so its used all the time.

As this is probably not the best way to do multi GPU rendering performance wise there are better ways. One way would probably be to break up the scene into seperate parts, and have each GPU render a different part of the scene then combine them in the final framebuffer. This is not problem free, but would be more efficient. You can get near perfect performance scaling with this technique without the classic AFR downsides like sync issues. You do need a smart controller, but this idea and tech is not a pipe dream...

This has been tried on PC. Lucid Hydra. http://www.pcper.com/review... But again the difficulties are the variables of software and hardware involved. Not to mention resistance from the graphics companies and their marketing departments. It needs more investment and backing to perfect, but with the right people and money it would work.

On console all these problems go away with development of a new machine. With a fully flexible dual GPU system, then the developer can choose how to set up their engine to take full advantage of them.

Console is the ideal platform for multiple graphics processors, it makes sense even better than it does for PC!
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dcbronco  +   1131d ago
There is no reason it can't be dual GPU. Many for get the current 360 basically uses and APU. And it uses a lot less power than the original 360. Add to that that a CPU next year will be either 32 or 22nm and there are far fewer heat issues. Heat won't be a problem. I still believe they will stick with IBM. The Power architecture IBM uses has already been used to being make fused chips. Plus the Power 8 should be available next year, if not, early for MS anyway. And that architecture has quad core threads like the current Power 7. So 6 cores is really 24 instructions or four times the current Xbox. And with a far more power CPU to begin with. And one thing that does ring true about the rumor is that a MS exec mentioned that they had started working on the next Xbox right after the 360 launch to make sure there would be no RRoD type issues.
edonus  +   1132d ago
Clock speed I saw on the current generation of chips topped out at around 3.6 with no over clocking, I would think by the time the system is ready it ould run solid around there.

AMD also just released a 8 core chip so the 6 should be really cost effective.
steve30x  +   1132d ago
The AMD's newest 8 core CPU runs slower than the Intels 2500k and 2600k. In benchmarks the AMD overclocked to its max isnt a match for the Intel 2500K and 2600K at stock speeds. If you dont believe me look up the benchmarks for yourself. Also the Intel CPU's run much cooler than the AMD CPU's.

Dont get me wrong. I am changing to AMD as soon as I can because I've never had any luick with Intel parts , but Intel CPU's are faster and cooler.
Brawler  +   1132d ago
Sadly Bulldozer was a let down their 8core chips dont perform well at all. the old phenom chips actually beat it in certain games and apps. Bulldozer is alright for heavy threaded apps but it doesnt touch intels sandy bridge lineup
edonus  +   1132d ago
I wouldnt say a letdown, Intel is definitely the best, I think the most they have right now is quad core (maybe 1 or 2 six cores) but they are faster but also more expensive.

The Bulldozer competes well against the i5s but not the i7s.

The advantage is the 8 cores most applications really arent designed with that many cores in mind, so as they start making software that can maximize there use I think Bulldozer will be OK.
ATi_Elite  +   1132d ago
Xbox 720....in a more technical perspective
CPU = The 6 core would be very power efficient while running cool at around 3.0ghz and would be equal to a mid range 4 core desktop CPU. Making it a 6 core would provide mid range 4 core performance while maintaining heat and power requirements.

*Desktop PC CPU's have hyper threading higher clocks and a ton of special features that require a lot of power where as the xbox 720 would need to work with in a certain Watt range. Adding the extra 2 cores gives you the performance boost without the heat and watt usage*

Dual Core GPU = AMD has really done very well with dual GPU scaling along with having cool and energy efficient GPU's. AMD's Crossfire set-up is a great way to boost performance while maintaining lower prices.

1. first point is price = A dual GPU would be cheap cause AMD would be using something already made and like HD5000 or HD6000 series GPU's. Dual Gpu's give you more power for a cheaper price.

Perfect example GTX580 = $500 GTX560ti SLI = $475 but give you 25% more power

2. Second point of Heat = Non issue here as well cause the 720 isn't gonna get the stand alone PCI-E slot GPU's that PC's get you silly person. The 720 would get two GPU chips integrated onto one board along with the CPU and share the 2GB of XDR ram.

*2Gb of shared XDR ram is more than enough for a console (512mb system 1.5Gb Gaming). Your not gonna be running a dual firewall, antivirus, editing video, web browsing, and burning DVD's all at the same time on your console so it doesn't need 4, 6, 8, or 10GB of ram.*

The clocks would be modded to fit the power and heat requirements of the Xbox 720 JUST like how CPU's and GPU's are modded to fit the specs for LAPTOPS.

3. Third point is the size of the Xbox 720. Nothing will ever be made heavier and bulkier than the original XBOX so chill-out. Chip sizes have been shrinking for a while now as we have entered the 28nm and 22nm processing range for CPU's and GPU's. Remember the 360's Xenon was 90nm then the slim was 65nm! Even at 40nm is a big difference from 65nm.

I expect the 720 to be slightly larger than the 360 but way more cooler cause of smaller chips and more efficient chips. I expect the size increase to be for the most important feature......HDD. 3.5"HDD are cheap as hell now a days and having a dual HDD in the consoles would allow for flawless SP gaming while downloading new games.
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Raider69  +   1132d ago
were did you saw that a sli gtx560ti is 25% more powerful than a single gtx580?You are Wrong one single gtx580 is more powerful than a 560ti in Sli and in same benchmark its even tops a gtx570 in Sli too.
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frostypants  +   1132d ago
@deadlybrand
Check out the benchmarks at Tom's Hardware. I think you're wrong.
vortis  +   1132d ago
You make valid points up until the RAM.

Destructibility has become a huge factor in a lot of games and the consoles will need about 4GB of RAM if a game like GTA, Mafia or Saints Row plan to go the route of full-destructibility. That's not to mention that I'm pretty sure games will be a standard of 1080p, so yeah...RAM will still need to be plentiful especially for open-world games.

I would hate for the newer consoles to repeat what we seen in this gen's games where you blow up something and it fades away in 0.3 seconds as if it never existed, just to keep the cache clear.
Scenarist  +   1132d ago
@vortis .,.. i agree

Ram is a much bigger factor if you want high polygon models and high resolution texture maps.

the only limitation i can think of, while developing the 720, is money lol. Primarily trying to find the best price/performance ratio
for ex: making the system as capable as possible but still being able to sell it at a respectable (video games market) value. I alot of people need to be able to afford it so to speak.

I wish they would put Solid state drives and 24GB of ram in it ....shit

and then only your imagination can be the limitation of whats possible
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TheXgamerLive  +   1132d ago
this is a failed rumor.
Fact is they've been testing many variations in alpha form for well over a year now, including 12 and 16 cores. there's actually some articles regarding this. search it.
kevnb  +   1132d ago
more cores are a pain to program for, but in a console devs will always know the cores are there.
JsonHenry  +   1132d ago
Shackdaddy-

1. That would be a lot more expensive
- not if they use two cheaper parts to make it faster than one higher end parts. (think SLi with two 460s instead of a 480)

2. It would create a ton of heat requiring more efficient cooling for the case.
- two cheaper parts do not make more heat than one higher end higher clocked part. Especially not since they will more than likely to be on the same chip as the CPUs.

3. It would be bulkier probably forcing Micro to have a bigger case than they probably want.
- Look at my response to number 2.

More than likely what we will be getting is basically AMD's Llano CPU/GPU chipset, possibly with higher performance. Their current line when coupled with the right RAM can easily run Crysis maxed out at 768p on laptops. (to give you some sort of perspective)

Or it could be none of this and something completely different. Kinda upset to only see 2gigs of ram. Was hoping for 3-4gigs.
Persistantthug  +   1132d ago
LOOP is likely a TABLET/PHONE/HANDHELD device.
Arm Processors are mainly for Mobile devices.
A tablet does NOT equal a console.
Ulf  +   1132d ago
I find it hilarious that this small comment is the only one with any relevance, and will largely go ignored by the N4G community.

Most of them didn't even notice that the rumored CPU was an ARM, which would never cut it in a console, since even the performance of a hexacore mobile CPU wouldn't touch a tri-core desktop CPU.
zero_cool  +   1132d ago
Also the flexibility & efficiency of the cores matter just as much as the speed of the cores!

Cheers Gamers & Happy Gaming!
sjaakiejj  +   1132d ago
"For the CPU, it depends more on the clock speed."

I'm just going to stop reading here, as this is completely incorrect. Clock Speed has some relevance, but it is by far the worst stat to look at when you're thinking in terms of performance. Its instruction rate is far more important, and is a far more accurate stat on how well a processor will perform.

Look for DMIPS and WMIPS to get some stats.
MaxMurdoch   1132d ago | Personal attack | show | Replies(1)
SegataShanshiro  +   1132d ago
It seems that nobody is asking aboutt he single most important
Processing unit, THE BLAST PROCESSOR
vortis  +   1132d ago
You're wrong about dual GPUs being more expensive and causing more heat. My dual 5770s create less heat than my 4850 and out-performed it in DX10 games by about 20%.

AMD is known for making efficienct XFire cards that require low-maintenance and low-energy consumption while producing very little heat for good results. Dual-GPU sounds about right for AMD and it would be the cheaper way to go.
jerethdagryphon  +   1131d ago
so an amd 6 core buldozer then...... thats interesting completly off the shelf most likly
DA_SHREDDER  +   1131d ago
the clock speed for the ps3 and xbox cores are already 3.2 ghz.. How much faster of a speed do you need?
Hanif-876  +   1133d ago
The rumored ram is 2gb DDR3 in which i think is just pathetic because they should throw in at least 4gb.
Focus  +   1133d ago | Funny
Until PS4 is revealed to also have 2gb, then it is totally awesome because the new supercell transforms it to an 8gb with its awesome phoenix and unicorn magic. Right?
Micro_Sony  +   1132d ago
Hahahahahahaahha - Bubbles
blumatt  +   1132d ago
RAM / Price
I hope both the PS4 and Next Xbox have at least 4GB of RAM. Both of them should, so there's no RAM bottlenecks.

Sounds like some pretty good hardware though. Will be curious to see the price. I hope both of them (PS & Xbox) end up only costing $399 launch price.
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tehnoob3  +   1132d ago
ps4 will likely use XDR ram running at 4ghz+ which is great and it makes ps3 emulation easier.
Killzone3Helghast  +   1132d ago
loooooooooooooooooool@ tehnoob you don't even know what you're talking about. They don't need to emulate PS3 games with the PS4 it uses the same technology
RedDead  +   1132d ago
Haha I agree but, eh, ddr-3 is fu**ing cheap these days. May as well throw a good bit in for the consoles.

iagainsti..no...DDr-2 can still run a good gaming rig. DDr-3 is fine
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Dread  +   1132d ago
that was too much dude...made me laugh
a_bro  +   1132d ago
2gb is more than fine.
SJPFTW   1132d ago | Trolling | show
HaHa_Ostrich  +   1132d ago
No it is not. PS2 had 32MB RAM. PS3 had split 512. Thats 16x boost in memory, yet still considered to be the main bottleneck of consoles. So an upgrade of only 4x of current ram is simply not enough. In 2013-14 itll be laughable.
T3MPL3TON  +   1132d ago
@a_bro

Are you slow? I dare you to have a PC with only 2GB of ram and try to run a newer game. When your computer tells you no for the 12th time maybe you'll get it.
a_bro  +   1132d ago
its a console...Not a PC... on pc, its necessary to go beyond 2gb. a game console is simply that, a game console. a machine that is dedicated on just simply playing games.

you guys must be high if you think game consoles will have as much ram as a gaming PC. I mean, think how much that's going to cost. and again its a dedicated gaming console, not a pc.
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vortis  +   1132d ago
2GB won't even be enough to run GTA VI on consoles without bottlenecks. I hope they don't use your logic because we'll end up with fail consoles.

I agree with all the sensible people: 4GB or GTFO.

We all know they're going for 1080p and AAx, etc., etc., which eats RAM like crazy, not to mention destructibility, voice chat, in-game audio and assets, etc. You'd be flatout mental to think that 2GB would get you much on a next-gen machine. 2GB even in a PS3 or Xbox 360 would only make nominal differences to the games we get today (such as slightly more peds, car variety in open world games, and more destructibility and lasting debris in shooter games).
iagainsti120  +   1132d ago
Not to mention DDR3 is to slow for graphics right now in modern Video cards. Xbox 360 uses Gddr3 so i wouldn't be surprised if they end up using 2-4GB of GDDR5 or something faster.
STONEY4  +   1132d ago
Huh. RAM DDR does not = GPU GDDR.

And 4GB VRAM graphics cards? We're barely adopting 2GB, and only needing more than 1GB at 2560x1600. Which most gamers don't run at anyways.

Unless you mean "RAM" RAM, but that GDDR5 thing makes no sense in that case.
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iagainsti120  +   1131d ago
Im not saying graphics cards need 4gb of ram, im saying that using Gddr3 or DDR3 is a step backwards. not to mention that you can look at several ATI or nvidia cards back when GDDR5 was being introduced. A card running GDDR5 using the same components and clock speeds has a huge advantage over a card using GDDR3. Its all about the bandwidth and GDDR5 is 2x faster than GDDR3. Faster all the components are the better the frame rates will be. Im Sure Pandamobile would agree.
And consoles use GDDR for system memory too btw as an example the 360 uses shared memory for graphics and system.
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ExCest  +   1132d ago
Actually true. It should have more than 2Gb.
i mean, I'm pretty sure 2Gb is enough but, 4Gb is freakin cheap as hell nowadays. Just look at prices. If ram is on sale (and since these companies buy in bulk which = cheaper prices than the following) for often like 20-40$, it shouldn't too hard or expensive. With 4Gb, there would be no memory problems probably ever (I'm talkin about the PS3 XMB in game) ((The Ps3 XMb would run smooth and it could potentially load the icons crazy fast)) (((if I'm wrong, it's because I'm not too tech-savvy)))
RegorL  +   1132d ago
"With 4Gb, there would be no memory problems probably ever"

Pretty sure you are correct, since it is so much more than 640kB :-)

But what is actually more important than the RAM is fast secondary storage - this time it might be SSD.
ExCest  +   1132d ago
@regorL

and if i'm correct, remembering myself playing pc, yes, ram is fast secondary storage. It would amount to the fact that maps in FPS will actually load faster as they would be cached into the RAM and since Ram is fast... really fast map loading like PC instant fast

wow this run-on sentence
JsonHenry  +   1132d ago
I agree with the RAM statement Spartan. However when I play current high end games on my PC I have my second monitor set up with system monitor running on it. Games like Crysis 2, BF3, and Stalker DX11 use only about 3.5 gigs of my system RAM. And my OS is running with high overhead. (uses about 1gig just sitting still) So those games are only using about 2.5 gigs and they look really damn good maxed out at high settings. THE ONLY thing I am not taking into consideration though is my video card has 1gig of RAM. And since MS seems to like the unified memory architecture 2gigs may be a bit of a limit to even meet the current standard of PC gaming. If the video card does not have dedicated RAM then I fear 2gigs will not be enough to do what current high end PCs can do but certainly enough to look head and shoulder better than what we are getting consoles now. Certainly enough to look "next gen" but not enough to push the increases in gfx fidelity later on in the consoles life.
Hanif-876  +   1132d ago
@JsonHenry Yup, thats exactly my point.
DarkBlood  +   1132d ago
Well i just want the release date for Xbox Loop or my preference Xbox Fruit Loop lol
Pandamobile  +   1132d ago
Dual GPU in a console?

Rumor credibility goes out the window.
shenglongg  +   1132d ago
If we'll consider the innovations provided by AMD: CrossFireX on 2005, AMD Fusion APUs on 2010, you might say the concept of dual-GPUs may not be too impossible.
irepbtown  +   1132d ago
Lets not forget AMD saying their chips for Mobile phones can equal console graphics,

I think it is VERY possible.

Edit: My cousins Samsung Galaxy S II can put out some pretty impressive graphics. They were top notch, definitely something that could compete with consoles. So if they dont do something crazy, then mobile phones even will be ahead.
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MaxMurdoch  +   1132d ago
why is that such an outrageous idea? dual gpu would offer more power than single gpu and cost less for the gaming muscle it provides. I think its possible, and actually a good idea.

honestly with nearly 100% scaling with the current gen amd gpus and nvidia gpus, this doesnt seem impossible.
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kaveti6616  +   1132d ago
It would cost more than the console itself.

Even if Microsoft purchased them in bulk, they would end up paying 200 USD a piece for them. And the CPU would end up being a bottleneck.

They wouldn't be able to fit it into a small enough form factor to call it a console.

It's not going to happen, man. Give it a rest.
irepbtown  +   1132d ago
Kaveti,

Business man BUSINESS.

Obviously there will be deals if you order thousands/millions.
Try going onto wholesale shops/sites, you can buy laptops for a quarter of the normal price.
Machioto  +   1132d ago
Aren't powervr GPUs technically multi GPUs and I thought the shrink from 40nm to 28nm would help any heat problems also AMD make small GPUs to begin with their biggest one is the same size a gtx560 ti.
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steve30x  +   1132d ago
Their 6990 is bigger than a GTX590.
Raider69  +   1132d ago
Alienware have desktops like M18x with SLI gtx580m and ATI 6990 CFX and the M17x R1 with dual GPU too all stick under the hood so i dont see the reason a console cant have dual GPU.The only valid reason i say this is bogus is because M$ and Sony most likely will want to release a new console at affordable price to mass market and a dual GPU set up its not viable economically to neither,people are forgetting that Sony and M$ already stated that they dont want to lose money on new generation consoles at release like they have lost with the 360 and PS3.
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OpenGL  +   1132d ago
I can only see it using two GPUs if each is based on the GPU from the 360 or something, as a low cost next-gen console.
3GenGames  +   1132d ago
This sounds very likely, although 2 GPU's doesn't sound right. 1 big really good one would be better than 2x decent ones, especially when you have to cut down the time to put them together on the production line.

And in order to reduce cost I hope they ship with something like 2GB of CPU RAM and 2GB of GPU RAM and do like the N64 and have you be able to insert another DIM to get 4GB of graphics RAM to have better graphics. That'd be a good way to keep the price down if it took off $50 or so. I'd rather do that myself anyway...new consoles for the first couple years are way over priced for their hardware and stuff like that anyway. I hope they don't debut too expensive.
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C_Menz  +   1132d ago
Or they could just put in 8gb since it would hardly raise the cost of the console. You can get 8gb of ram for $40, and generally in retail you make around a 50% profit. So for MS it wouldn't put a dent into costs compared to the other parts of the console if it cost them $20-$25 instead of $10-$15.
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edonus  +   1132d ago
8GB of ram is an awful lot unless they go out of their way way to program sloppy. 8gb of ram and actually all these cores are great for multitasking applications. I'm not sure if videogames really do that many tasks.
C_Menz  +   1132d ago
What people forget is that the next generation of consoles will be much more than a gaming machine. Consoles will be more computer like than ever before and will benefit from more RAM.
sjaakiejj  +   1132d ago
To keep things simple, here's two simple facts:

2x amount of RAM != 2x amount of performance
(In fact, it might perform worse due to power dissipation)

Console RAM != Kingston/Corsair ValueRAM
Consoles use very optimised and specific RAM to meet needs for the most optimal performance.

When it boils down to it, a Games Console will want to work as optimally as possible. To choose the amount of RAM, research is done into the type of performance they want the console to have. Based on that research, they minimise the amount of RAM memory they put in, in such a way that it's exactly able to reach the goals in terms of performance. Too much would slow the console down, too little would slow it down.

If you are to plot it out onto a graph, you would get something like this:
http://i.msdn.microsoft.com...

Whilst this graph is about Cache Size, Cache Memory is in fact the same (but much smaller) as RAM.
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banner  +   1132d ago
Is that what it was called? DIM?? What does it stand for... I wish I knew why nintendo or the other 2 didn't do that after n64 seemed like a great idea and it sure did make turok look noticeably better.
3GenGames  +   1132d ago
I tried to give turok a run a week ago since I had 2 copies and never played it...holy crap is that a bad game. But it does make DK64 and Conkers look good, played those for a few days.... :)
banner  +   1132d ago
You crazy.. Turok was a great game for the 64 the weapons was sick especially that one gun that would turn the whole screen white from the explosion... You probably can't see the magic now since you didn't experience it in it's time.
vortis  +   1132d ago
It's like you guys are living in the stone age. 2GB of RAM goes for like $16, ace. Why on Earth would you want consoles bottle-necked that badly? That's just infantile.

And please do some research...ONE really "big" graphics card is always worse in performance, heat consumption, energy efficiency and memory management than two middle-ranged cards.

AMD has perfected Crossfire with their cards where you can get any two low or mid-ranged cards that will work just as well or in some cases out-perform the high-end cards that cost twice as much as two cards combined.

Also, keep in mind that TWO mid-ranged cards will outlast a single high-end card any day of the week. They share the load and they offer twice the amount of VRAM, which puts a lot less strain on them as opposed to a top-end card.
gotgame1985  +   1132d ago
so this is cabable of avatar graphics right
ExCest  +   1132d ago
not even pc's >.>
shikamaroooo  +   1132d ago
lost me at dual gpu....
MetalFreakMike  +   1132d ago
The 6 core CPU will be way faster than the 3 core duel threaded CPU in the 360. Even at the same clock speed, they can improve performance per clock and have a bigger pipeline for data chunks. This 6 core CPU is most likely going to be also be duel threaded so it will have 12 threads to work with.

Duel GPU's are already out but make a lot of heat. All they have to do is have less shader cores working with a smaller die shrink and make sure the power usage is on par with what MS wants and it will work fine. They just have to make sure they have proper cooling this time before the console gets released.
SignifiedSix  +   1132d ago
That would be awesome! And you know that, that GPU is gonna be supported by DX11, or 12, if its out by then. No console would have a chance up against that next gen, seeing Microsoft's console is and can only be the only console powered by DX because they own it.

And to the people that think 2 gigs isn't enough for a next gen console, are clueless about this kind of stuff.
Consoles don't use the same RAM they use in PC's, As you can tell. 512mb's of EDRAM this gen seems to be quite useful. Look at all these games that take how much RAM to run on a PC, compared to the console version.

2GB of RAM for the PC is the recommended amount just to run windows 7. The other portion of your RAM, weather if you have 4 to 8 gigs of memory, goes to other programs.
2GB is more than enough for consoles that are solely dedicated to gaming. Yeah, 4GB would be better, but if its 2GB, it'll be good enough!

Edit: One thing i don't believe, is the dual GPU. That would pump out way too much heat for such a small confined space. Unless of course they had good enough cooling techniques for it. If anything, it'll be a 1GB custom GPU with DX11
#9 (Edited 1132d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(10) | Report | Reply
iagainsti120  +   1132d ago
1- 2 Gigs of ram 2-3 years into the consoles life will not be enough, i dont care who you are there is no such thing as to much ram.

2- what device has 512 MB of eDRAM? im sure the PS3 has 256MB GDDR3, and 256MB XDR. While 360 is 512MB GDDR3 and 10MB of eDRAM

3- The reason console games use less ram is because consoles HAVE LESS RAM!

4- If AMD is making the GPU it is very believable that it will be a crossfire solution. Heat will not be that big of an issue as AMD has laptop crossfire solutions that draw a lot less power than their desktop counterparts.
SignifiedSix  +   1132d ago
Not enough? Is that why these consoles, that are 5-6 years into their life cycles with such a low amount of ram, still produce good looking games like gears of war 3, uncharted 2-3 and BF3 with such a small amount of RAM?
And i never said anything about them having "too much RAM". Learn how to read!
Try playing a game on a computer with 512MB of RAM... Oh wait, you cant. The computer wouldn't even start.
Yeah, i may have messed up on the current gen of consoles RAM, but i still proved a point. Consoles don't need as much RAM as a computer needs. That's a fact.
tehnoob3  +   1132d ago
@siginified

yeah good looking games with a crapload of optimization. If a dev were to take a top of the line pc and optimize the game only for that pc it would look much better than a game design to run at multiple configurations. And comparing bf3 to uncharted 3 or gears of war 3 (both good looking games), technically and visually it destroys them.
Bladesfist  +   1132d ago
@signified you do know that game devs use horrible tricks to make their game work with that low ram. Plus their is a difference to how much ram the game is actually using and how much has been allocated to it.
vortis  +   1132d ago
Fanboys will be fanboys.

You do know that console ports of games using less RAM have like 50% of the graphics and gameplay density stripped out of them?

Since you probably live on N4G, just look at GTA IV iCEnhancer and compare it to the PS3 or Xbox 360 version of GTA IV. Herp, derp, hurp, not even close is it?

Also notice that the PC version of GTA IV can support a full screen of different cars all jammed onto the streets. Where-as the console versions only have two or three different cars in spurts here and there.

And why do you fanboys keep bringin up a linear game like Uncharted 3 as a good example of RAM usgae? It's linear. Good gosh you guys need to read a book or something.

Compare S.T.A.L.K.E.R. to the console games and you'll see why that game isn't on consoles and why 2GB of RAM for next-gen consoles just ain't enough, unless of course you want the destructibility in your games to be limited to Call of Duty-style windows and glass. Good luck with that, ace.
imbrawler  +   1132d ago
i heard that the next Xbox will have wings as well
aman84r  +   1132d ago
Oh yea and it will give you candies for unlocking achievements
demon31  +   1132d ago
candy!!!! I love candy
KiLLeRCLaM  +   1132d ago
buy a computer with a gtx580 with a 2600k a wireless controller and play everthing from your sofa. pay a little more and you can keep upgrading if you want. with a console, your stuck with the same hardware.. gets old.. who plays games with controllers anyways :P
iagainsti120  +   1132d ago
Sorry dude but that GPU goes for $500 to $1500 alone, no thanks.
http://www.newegg.com/Produ...

(yes i realize the $1500 card is the MARS 2 from ASUS and is ridicules in every way)
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Venjense  +   1132d ago
Consoles have a lot of games PC doesn't.
Bladesfist  +   1132d ago
PCs have a lot more games that consoles dont. Your point? If you want all games get all platforms. I need my starcraft and indie ganes, dont care for gears or uncharted
josephayal  +   1132d ago
The most POWERFUL console ever?
imbrawler  +   1132d ago
its going to be OVER 9000!!!!
NotSoSilentBob  +   1132d ago
And it will be 2x the price of the PS3 at the time of its launch if this turns out to be true...Did apple buy M$ game division or something?
urwifeminder  +   1132d ago
Count me in day one regardless.
arnyftw  +   1132d ago
If it seriously has these specs im gonna wait till price cuts and the slim versions release.
SDF Repellent  +   1132d ago
Man I hope this is true. They need to make sure to include a speedy Blu Ray drive and and standard HDD and it will be set. With Direct X 11 -12, it is going to be a godsent to developers .
edonus  +   1132d ago
I think they are going to do small harddrives with the ability to upgrade and put everything else on cloud storage. No installs, I think Sony will go blu ray but i'm not sure what MS will do maybe even a proprietary format even though I would like if MS went Blu Ray then I could reduce one of the boxes on the stand.
maniac76  +   1132d ago
oh yeah,bet it cant do gta4 or crysis etc on max with AA lol
2v1  +   1132d ago
stfu yuall this system will have 8cores in a single cpu and quad gpu whit 10 gb of memory. let the hype begins
Venjense  +   1132d ago
2 gigs of RAM seems low, especially considering how cheap RAM is.
Steadyhndz  +   1132d ago
All fake...

No reason for a console to have a 6 core CPU, or dual GPU...consoles are made to be cheap, but efficient. It will probably run a Tri-Core at most, possibly a quad because quad cores are very cheap to make now.

Dual GPU is useless for consoles...Dual-GPU technology is actually quite expensive, and would not be worth it for a console at all. Just put 1 decently strong GPU in it.

Consoles are not computers...they don't need the specs that computers do...look at a PS3 specs, or 360...compare it to a PC. Then you'll understand a little why this article is 100% fake.
bozebo  +   1132d ago
"Consoles are not computers...they don't need the specs that computers do"

What about the original XBOX? It had components that were extremely similar to PC parts.

Obviously nobody is expecting the 720 to have standard PC parts, but the architecture and chip designs that PCs use are extremely appropriate to gaming in this day and age. The 360 and PS3's designs were the right thing to do when they were made (sort of), times change - PC hardware is so cheap to manufacture these days that it would be less effective and more expensive to develop entirely proprietary hardware.

I.E. the next generation of consoles only exists for business (refilling a want in the market that they created), not for consumer convenience (seeing and filling a gap in the market). Hardware has improved a lot and reduced a lot in price.

In the past, consoles made perfect sense because a gaming PC was very expensive, that is no longer the case. I would expect next gen consoles to launch as cheap as £200 if they use a similar business model to what consoles historically do (make a loss on the hardware sales so you can create a large market base for software & services income). If the 720 costs £300 or more, they are ripping customers off (a vastly more powerful PC will cost about £500 in a years time, maybe less - and there are a lot of companies making profit & paying VAT off the components as they follow the chain of manufacture - a lot more than console manufacture).

ATI's new custom chip is probably their first 28nm chip and it will probably make a big improvement to graphics performance (if you compare it to ATI's 6xxx series which are already incredibly powerful). A similar thing happened with the 360's launch, ATI had the first unified shader chip for the 360 then graphics performance suddenly jumped up a lot when their (and nVidia's) new PC chips were developed (360 still does quite well shader-wise considering the low resolution the games run at). Only this time it is just a vast increase in performance scaling rather than a groundbreaking architecture change. I would expect the 720's power to rival a single 6950 (if it is 2 mid-range chips crossfired) which is more than enough for 60fps 1080p, especially in a console when the developers can optimise for one set of hardware specifically. Samaritan demo levels of performance are extremely unlikely unless they delay the console till 2014 or later, or it is very loud because of the extreme cooling solution (it would get a bad rep and not sell, expect hairdryer volumes - PCs keep cool quietly because there is space for huge fans and heatsinks; a console of a similar size would be a failure at market).
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Steadyhndz  +   1132d ago
When the latest gen consoles were made they didn't use anything relative to your regular computer...I know a lot has changed since, but you have to look at it from the company view.

Why make a machine that uses the technology that costs hundreds, when you can make a machine that can do great things, and make it cheap...What you are saying...they would lose money making these things, and rely on profits through game sales and accessories only. Some companies have done this..but for a gaming console it just would not work.

Also, don't reply to this comment saying "Oh well those parts would only cost $100 or $200 for a company"...you have to think about more than that.

I'll put it this way, the original Xbox 360, it only cost Microsoft about $120 in hardware, and an additional $100 or so to process and get it on the shelf. So unless you want to see a console that will cost $600, don't expect computer like specs in the next gen console.
Noticeably_FAT  +   1132d ago
Seems like solid specs to me, we will probably have to wait only a few months to find out for sure. I do think it's time for a new console though, Microsoft please take my money! SHOW ME THE CONSOLE!
yabhero  +   1131d ago
If any of these specs are true I will laugh when you have to pay 899-1299 for your console.
Noticeably_FAT  +   1131d ago
Console makers usually are willing to take a loss, people complaining about the memory need to realize these are consoles, they don't have to run OS, so 2 gigs should be more then enough.

Excited to hear more about this.
ilkercruiser  +   1132d ago
DDR3 Again?
Six-year-old Xbox360 has already GDDR3 memory. X720 should be alt least 4GBs of GDDR5 ram. Otherwise it won't last that long.
QuantumWake  +   1132d ago
4-8GB of DDR3 is more plausible. GDDR5 chips are expensive are they not? I'm pretty sure they'll stick with DDR3, maybe DDR4 (though by the time DDR4 releases, the next-gen consoles may be out already).

One thing I am concerned with though is the 2GB. Isn't that a bit too little? Especially considering if we want next-gen consoles to last another 6 years.
yabhero  +   1131d ago
WiiU has 1.5 GB of GDDR5 and according to rumor its going up to 2GB. So 2, 2.5 Gb would me enough for next xbox because a lot oF fast PCs have around 4 GB a consoles only need a little more than half of the Ram of PC's
SephirothX21  +   1132d ago
"hexa-core type of CPU with 2GB DDR3 Memory and a prototype dual-GPU from AMD"
My pc has an i7 2600k which has 4 cores but 8 threads (better than 6 cores with 6 threads) at 4.3ghz with a GTX 580 graphics card and 8 gigs of 1600mhz DDR3 ram. The good thing about next gen though is that developers will start to take advantage of pcs like mine because they will be developing for consoles a lot closer to my pc than consoles this gen. I would prefer if it had at least 4 gigs of ram though but 6 cores is enough for the processor because graphics cards do much more now than cpus in regards to gaming. Assuming this rumour is true of course. Maybe MS are thinking of launching it late 2012 or early 2013? They don't want the Wii-U getting a head start.
bozebo  +   1132d ago
Dual GPU makes sense but I dunno about a hex core CPU.

Why dual GPU? Because one high-end GPU would make far too much heat in a concentrated area to be vented by console cooling solutions. For it to work, the consoles would have to be larger and/or louder. 2 middle-spec GPUs could be far enough away to allow a more effective cooling solution. Also, in PCs it is often cheaper & more powerful to have 2 mid-end graphics cards rather than 1 high end; and that is duplicating a lot of hardware that would not be needed if there were merely 2 chips (and sets of compulsory board components that each chip needs). In a console, they can design a proprietary board type to reduce costs even more.

Current high-end PC CPUs are never maxed out by (decently programmed) games. Even the CPU that is in the 360 is very powerful, the bottlenecks are the RAM and the graphics hardware.

The new hex core AMD CPUs are not the best for gaming (a fast quad is far better), though that may be because most games are designed to take advantage of a small number of very powerful cores. So perhaps with the fixed hardware of a console it could work well - but I still think a faster quad would be better. Also remember that new CPU architectures increase performance even before you take the clock speed into account (a 3.2GHz 360 tri core CPU is much worse than a 2.4GHz PC Intel i3 dual core). So even without being hex core, the 720 will easily double CPU performance over the 360.

"2GB DDR3 Memory"
Fail casual machine... 2GB is NOT going to be enough in the near future. I have played on minecraft worlds that eat up a whopping 3GB, and games with intensive AI like Mount & Blade can use over 2GB too. If they put 2GB in the machine then they will be limiting developer creativity from day 1. I would say 4GB is the minimum requirement.
BubloZX  +   1132d ago
"2GB DDR3 Memory"
Fail casual machine... 2GB is NOT going to be enough in the near future. I have played on minecraft worlds that eat up a whopping 3GB, and games with intensive AI like Mount & Blade can use over 2GB too. If they put 2GB in the machine then they will be limiting developer creativity from day 1. I would say 4GB is the minimum requirement.

That wont be a problem. Deveolpers have proved themselves time and time again that they can optimize those games to run on a lesser machine
DJ  +   1132d ago
Sounds like something Microsoft would do. But Sony's aiming for a minimum of 16 cores (possibly 32) with PS4, and will also go with the dual GPU route and 8 GB of RAM (assuming they keep increasing memory the way they have been).

They'll get leapfrogged pretty quickly, especially if they launch soon.
bozebo  +   1132d ago
Yeah, 2GB of RAM places it firmly in the casual arena.
Chances are though that it will just cause multiplats to be dumbed down.

I play PC games today that use a lot more than 2GB (the actual game process, not overall system RAM usage).

Also, voxel based rendering and scene graphs will become increasingly common and that requires LOADS of RAM. I believe Crysis mentioned somewhere that they wish for next gen consoles to have at least 8GB.
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Arnon  +   1131d ago
Really now... do you and the rest of the world plan on spending $700+ for a PlayStation 4?

Also, you realize the Cell isn't 8 cores right? It's a single core with 7 SPE's, one of them being disabled. And no, it's not the same thing as having 8 cores. SPE's are not independent, and in fact, all rely on the single core, as opposed to a quad-core processor with 4 independently working cores, as well as around 4-6 virtual cores.

And 8 GB of RAM? It's going to need to be some pretty cheap, slow RAM if that's the case, especially if they want to make it proprietary.

If I were you, I'd expect another Cell processor, with (maybe) a dual GPU setup, and around 2-4 GB or DDR3 RAM.
#24.2 (Edited 1131d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
zero_cool  +   1132d ago
Well let's hope the prototype ati dual core gpu is capable of real time interactive ray tracing on the next gen xbox because that's the future of graphics!

Cheers Gamers & Happy Gaming!

Related video
thehitman  +   1132d ago
consoles will need SSD drives or all those specs will be rendered useless by the hard drive bottlenecks. I can see those specs being possible and it shouldnt cost much if 2013 is the launch for the next xbox.
OpiZA  +   1132d ago
Sounds pretty rad to me. SSD + Blu-ray to top it off. We can dream.
Neko_Mega  +   1132d ago
I like how they say this would make Sony want to come out with their system sooner. Yeah like how 360 came out an had alot of hardware problems?

I be more happy if they wait and take their time with the systems, I really hate getting a new system and have to send it back.
Colonel_Dante  +   1132d ago
I dont think that would be enough for next gen, really. I want something above and beyond a gaming pc of Today. I'll wait for a PS4, Im sure the US Airforce and Barrack Obama will wait with me. :)
Jason143  +   1132d ago
Not realy impressed. they are going to have to blow people away with fully contrallable cgi or something to make me want to buy another console. God of war 3 really set the bar high and Id like to see some tech that can destroy that and supports direct x 11 and 3d at 60fps
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