The Smell of Fear: Blu-Ray Backs Out of Open Format War Debate

Wired reports in "Blu-Ray Chickens Out Of Debate: Format Problems Looming?" on November 27, 2007:

The Blu-Ray consortium has backed out of a proposed debate with representatives of HD-DVD, avoiding tricky off-the-cuff discussion of format problems more easily wished away via press release.

From Gizmodo:

"Today was supposed to be a fun day, a day where (Gizmodo's Brian Lam) moderated a discussion between HD DVD and Blu-ray, where the bullshit would be kept to a minimum as both parties insta-fact checked each other's propaganda in real time. Delicious sounding, isn't it? Well after a few months of getting them to commit, Blu-ray canceled, citing wishes not to upset their current momentum."

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gamesblow3834d ago

Gotta do something when you're desperate for good news on the format end you support, I suppose. I mean 78% of the world is buying Blu-ray over Hd-dvd... & don't give me this garbage about it's the players that matter... cause I'd love to point out software sales of xbox 360 games to ps3 games ratio.

Basically, xbox 360 is to the videogame war, as Blu-ray is to the movie format war in terms of sales and what generates companies the most money.

Blu-ray is winning... these little stories are nothing but fear in fear itself. End of discussion.

snoop_dizzle3834d ago (Edited 3834d ago )

"I mean 78% of the world is buying Blu-ray over Hd-dvd... "

78 percent of the world? ok. The amount of people that could afford these luxuries, is probably under 20 percent of the worlds population.

78 percent of movie buyers aren't even buying hddvd or bluray yet though that is increasing. DVD right now sells a lot more, though it is dropping. In a few years however possibly 70 percent of movie buyers will buy HD formats. Whats the biggest amount you have a heard of an HD movie selling? Not much compared to standard dvd right now.

But yeah if we are talking about amount of content, bluray seems to be winning.

Which is kinda weird becasue many 360 fans prefer the 360 becasue it has more games and content out wh ydo they hate blueray then? Disliking ok but hate?. I personally don't care much for the format wars, i might even get an hddvd player as well, but that kinda strikes me odd.

Douche3834d ago (Edited 3834d ago )

What is there to fear on Blu Ray's behalf. Nothing. Which is why I find that a "debate" between the formats is a stunt and I find that Blu Ray's refusal to join in on it to be applauded. It's better to focus on the momentum by only recognizing thyself, not the competition. Which is why this news is bogus. Which is also why I commemorate the Blu-Ray consortium for giving the cold shoulder to this meaningless crap. What a waste of time.

P.S. @snoop dizzle - Your reading into his comment too much. What he is saying about the 78% is basicly that between the "High Definition" formats, 78% out of the total sales in the world are towards Blu Ray so far. Come on, I know you understood that. I think you read into that on purpose. I stand by my point though. This isn't a big deal. Blu Ray committee not stepping aside to participate in this ridiculous "discussion" just shows how focused they are with their marketing strategy. And also shows that they aren't needy little wusses looking for apporoval. Confidence and focus are key. Leave debates and all that bs for politicians.

snoop_dizzle3834d ago (Edited 3834d ago )

yeah for hd formats that probably sound about right. i think i did read too much into it. And it does seem bluray is winning on the software side(amt of movies) compared to hd dvd, not to dvd of course. That wasn't the disagreement. I have heard people before though think most people buy hd formats now when most don't. So thats why i said that.

blackmagic3834d ago (Edited 3834d ago )

If Blu-ray were truly winning on it's merits then this would be the perfect opportunity for the BDA to solidly cement itself as the leader but Blu-ray is being propped up by PS3 owners, many (obviously not all) of whom are Blu-ray proponents because Blu-ray was bundled in with their console, not because they made a conscious decision to choose Blu-ray over HD DVD in the first place. I might add that new owners, the ones that waited for cheaper prices, are less likely to adopt the more expensive HD media as were the early adoptors. On top of this, manufacturers are shovelling out players which are more expensive than HD DVD players AND obsolete on the day of sale. The only talking points the BDA had, disc space and studio support, has been eliminated by the TL51 disc and Paramount/Dreamworks exclusivity.

I'm sorry but there is little doubt why the BDA backed out.

Oh, and as far as disc sales go, 3.01M Blu-ray discs have been sold and 1.97M HD DVD discs have been sold since inception. I believe that is 60% versus 40% or a 1.5 to 1 advantage in disc sales. That's a far cry off from 78%.

I might add that the Nielson YTD sales data has also been showing a constant shift in momentum towards HD DVD since March of this year when Blu-ray sales peaked, a ratio which was 70.6/29.4 (2.40 to 1) in March but has eroded constantly to the 65/35 ratio it is as of the last sales report (1.86 to 1). Oh, and the latest Nielson data is pre HD DVD price cuts.

I'm pretty sick of people coming in here and stating, as fact, what is CLEARLY their opinion without any attemp to back it up with links and data.

Edit:The Nielson numbers are US. World HD media sales simply aren't released to the public on any regularity so we have to rely on what data we have. I might add that since ALL the major studios are American, the American market would be the most pivotal. It is certainly the largest HD media market and will tend to lead sales regardless.

Edit 2: The ratios announced by the BDA seem to mimic the US market as well with a bit more slant to Blu-ray *my opinion follows* which I would chalk up to poorer standalone player sales in general (meaning the PS3 has more influence)

Edit 3: Content-wise the formats are essentially equal, Blu-ray at 369 titles vs HD DVD at 343 titles.

marinelife93834d ago (Edited 3834d ago )

Those numbers are just for U.S. Sales.

snoop_dizzle3834d ago (Edited 3834d ago )

i don't really care which one wins, i want competition, and would buy both formats, in fact i might soon(dropping the price of hd movies would be nice though).

And for units sold maybe hddvd has more units sold, but am i right in saying that bluray is releasing more content? Isn't that kinda important? I just want hd movies, while bluray might have more content, id buy hddvd for the other stuff too.

gamesblow3834d ago

You didn't understand what I was trying to say Snoop... It's a fact that 78% of the hd media adopters are buying Blu-ray over HD-dvd. You can't argue this fact... It's a fact. Blu-ray is killing HD-dvd in sales of media. That is what I meant. not 78% of the world in general. 78% of the hd adopters.

snoop_dizzle3834d ago (Edited 3834d ago )

yeah i noticed that afterward. and it does appear blu-ray is winning. There was no disagreement there. We must of both misunderstood each other there.

blackmagic3833d ago (Edited 3833d ago )

Okay, seriously, where are you getting this 78% from because it sounds like it may be coming from your @ss and when I say 'it sounds like it may', I mean 'it is'.

Nielson has North America sitting at 3M disc sales Blu-ray to 2M disc sales HD DVD.

The BDA says that they have sold 1M discs in Europe and that they are leading by 'more than' 2 to 1, if it was significantly more they would have said so but to be conservative, lets say 400k HD DVD.

Finally, the asian market. Well really I have two points here:

First, after extensive google-ing, the only thing that I found that related to sales was a live blog on a BDA presentation in January. In the presentation they claim that blu-ray has 96% of the market BUT they also claim that 75% of PS3 owners plan to use their console as the primary device for watching movies. Of course we all know that 60% of PS3 owners have no idea that the PS3 even has a Blu-ray player and of the 40% that do know, a good chunk of them don't actually buy Blu-ray discs which is COMPLETELY consistent with the fact that Blu-ray disc sales aren't tromping HD DVD disc sales by better than 10 to 1. Obviously, I am seriously questioning the accuracy of the BDA presentation. Regardless, the fact that the entire country of China will be using HD DVD (CH DVD) pretty much makes the asian market a wash I would say.

Second, while looking for sales data for asian markets, I realized that outside of anime I had NO IDEA what studios existed. I checked on Wiki and guess what, still didn't recognize them except for Toho because of 'Seven Samurai' and their Godzilla movies. My point is, for the most part, they are little more than a niche market outside of Japan/China and really have very little effect on other markets. Btw, for anime, bandai is format neutral and GDH is the only other anime studio I am aware of that has promised an HD title and it is for HD DVD.

SO, it's 4M Blu-ray to 2.4M HD DVD which is 62% NOT the fictional 78% you made up. I am not denying that Blu-ray has a sales lead (which is diminishing) but I do wish people would stop making shyte up.

Edit: I might add that Transformers sold 8.5M in it's first week so in one week the dvd sales of one title exceeded the combined worldwide hd media disc sales since inception. Anyone who is declaring a format winner right now is, frankly, a moron.

Edit 2: replaced CH DVD link with one from audioholics whom I felt was a more reliable source.

Also, to Sushifx below, I tried to source as much information as I could and if you can find other conflicting information I would love to see it and will modify my stance accordingly. I remain completely open to new information. The problem is, as is so eloquently shown in your post, that I seem to be debating against rumour, heresay, opinion and fictional 'facts'.

For example, you say that you don't care about the North American market, you just care about the European and Japanese (conveniently excluding the Chinese) market yet the only studios that seem to matter to the format war are American studios for whom the American market is critical. The BDA says that they have sold 1M discs in Europe, over 2-1 lead on HD DVD. To me that says that HD media sales are less than 1.5M total which means the European market is about a quarter of the size compared to the North American market further reinforcing my belief that it is not as critical as the North American market. All the snippets I have gathered on the Asian markets seems to indicate it is even smaller than the European market however I have not found any firm data. If you have links I would be most interested however.

Since you have not sourced your >opinion< however, I find it quite unconvincing.

Ghoul3833d ago


us sales dont interest a bit mate take the global sales.
china isnt getting hd-dvd theire making theire own format with is only compatible to the hd-dvd players, so its totally uninteresting and with china beeing th emain piracy region in the world that is more of a BAD news than a good one as many many rips will come out on the chinese hd-dvd format wich then will be bought by us couse they are that cheap. So most of the companys will see that a minus.

Japan and europe are pro blu-ray that is also a fakt and i dont need links to proof that it has been posted often enough in the last months, and your post wont be getting better couse you throw around american sales charts.

wallace10003833d ago (Edited 3833d ago )

Thorny: "You smell something, Rabbit?"
Rabbit: "(Sniffs the air) Fear."

It would have been cool to hear an open debate. It is great when Goebbels isn't producing a companies information and someone has to actually use real information :-)

godofthunder103833d ago

if br is the greatest thing since tv as fans think,then why did they back out of the debate.

1-the reason that they backed out is because hd dvd has exactly the same picyure and sound as br and now they are releasing a 51gb disc just like sony,so now they can't say that br has more space

2-when hd dvd was released it was 100% finished but when they released br it wasn't

3-br is upgrading to do the same thing that hd dvd does already and sony already confirmed that the older players like the ones people paid $600 to $1000 for will not be able to play the new br discs.

4-the new hd dvds that will hold 51gb will still play in the older player because they already confirmed that the new 51gb hd dvds will play in all the older players.

5-disney agreed and voted for the 51gb discs even when sony wanted people to vote no.

6-the sell of all the hd dvd stand alone players is getting harder for movie companies to ignore.

7-they know that it's getting closer and all the movie companies will have to start making hd dvd discs because of the stand alone dvd players because it will be stupid not to

8-i know disney said that they want make hd dvds but they said the same thing years ago when they said that they will never make video tapes for vcrs when sony had the lead with their format but disney started making movies on video tapes for vcr even when sony still had the lead with their format because of the same thing that's happening now,people started buying vcrs when they went on sale.

i'm not saying that hd dvd is better then br because it isn't but br isn't better then hd dvds but hd dvds is a lot cheaper to make.they need to try and get togather so they can come up with one version then that way people will buy them because if hd dvds and brs don't start making a profit some times next year then they both might lose because neither one of them have an endless bank account like microsoft pluse there suppose to be a new format coming out some times next year that is suppose to be a lot better then both of them a they said that the price for a movie will almost be the same as dvds right now.
the reason that disney voted yes for the 51gb is because they know that they could make a bigger profit with hd dvds then br so they are keeping the door open because they could've voted no and that would've almost been the end to hd dvds but they voted yes.
i've read where one person said that disney is loyal to sony and they will never make a hd dvd.the truth is that disney is loyal to disney,their stock holders and their bonuses and no one else.if disney is so loyal to sony then why did they vote yes when sony wanted people to vote no on the 51gb discs.
i don't like to buy forign products especialy from sony but that's the only way people could get a hd player.i was planing on buying a br player and i was waiting for the ps3 to drop to $300 or the stand alone player to drop tp $200. while i was waiting for them to drop they had a $100 hd dvd player so i bought it because you can't beat that,i have a 1080p tv but 1080i and 1080p has the same picture unless you have a big screen tv..
i've read where some br fans saying that it was junk because it was 1080i and it was cheap because they wanted to hurry and sale them because they lost already.1080p is only good for big screen tvs and it's a little difference and anything 60ins or smaller it want make a difference and just because it's on sale doesn't mean it lost already,hell when sony had a lead years ago, vcrs went on sale to and they didn't think that they lost then,hell they even came back and beat sony in that format war.
i bet that if you put all the people that said 1080i is trash in a room with 2 tvs that's 60in or smaller with the same hook ups but one has a hd dvd player at 1080i and the other has a br player with 1080p that neither one will be able to tell the difference.the only reason that they are saying that is because they have a cheap hd dvd player and they are trying to to make it look like it's a piece of junk just so no one will buy it.

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 3833d ago
Anything but Cute3834d ago (Edited 3834d ago )

Blu ray is scared of HD DVD.

EDIT: I meant this as sarcasim, as in who gives a sh*t about this.

rubarb233834d ago

are a bunch of p*ssys. be honest, they get called out and they back away. yeah they luv preaching how they're killing hd dvd, so sh!t man, go toe to toe and finish them off for once. i mean isn't that what everyone wants? this format war to be over. i mean if the blu ray camp did this i think they could have finished it, but they back away like p*ssys.
i'm still on the fence and so my judgment ain't clouded by fanboyism, so anyway you spin it, blu ray in this situation look like a punch of punks who are all talk.

Loopy3834d ago

Do not approve this crap.

sonarus3834d ago

hahaha. HD-DVD masters of spinning their numbers to make themselves look great. yet despite the fact they were out before blu ray and blu ray is more expensive look at how close hardware sales are. Before the 100 dollar fire sale hd-dvd had about 500,000 stand alone while blu ray had about 400,000. With the new price cut they currently stand at about 750,000. A blu ray price cut and solid advertising from blu ray will change all this. HD-DVD isnt dead but it is dying. Dying a slow painful death cus after they realize how much money they lost by sellin their players for 100 dollars and they still dnt win it jst makes their death so much more painful. Blu ray has the supporters and it is the superior technology period

HarryEtTubMan3834d ago (Edited 3834d ago )

LOL Why would Blu Ray join a debate. THEY ARE CRUSHING HD DVD. What do they owe them? They don't want to debate the have about 6.5 million more Blu Ray players in the world... the whole industrys support and PS3 growing everyday. Why would they debate with HD DVD? This is their way of saying F U we dont have to debate we are winning.

PS3 outsells the 360 worldwide.

I always knew the PS3 would win.... but I didn't know Big Brother would be knockin' on the 360's door this early.

Maddens Raiders3834d ago

You're crazy, man. Crazy like a *fox.

Sez 3834d ago

vgchart dude. come on.their numbers are inaccurate. i will give you JP. but the rest. you have to use a better site than that one.

Rooftrellen3833d ago

"What do they owe them?"

Maybe, if I am to buy a very expensive movie player, they owe ME answers. If they want consumers to buy something, why would they not explain things to us?

If they are afraid of a head to head debate, and back out, that tells me that there is something they don't want me to know. I won't buy into a format that seems to have something to hide.

They owe HD DVD nothing, but they owe me, the consumer, a lot.

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