Disney Votes for 51GB HD DVD Media Approval

Walt Disney Home Entertainment, a major Hollywood studio and one of the strongest backers of Blu-ray disc format, voted for approval of a preliminary specification of 51GB triple-layer HD DVD media, just like all the backers of HD DVD and unlike some other backers of Blu-ray Association within the DVD Forum, who typically abstain in HD DVD-related votes.

The fact that Walt Disney Home Entertainment, which official stance has always been strong Blu-ray support, may be an indicator that even members of the Blu-ray Association are potentially interested in the forthcoming versions of the HD DVD standard.

[Multigamer]

if hd dvd is cheaper and storage was blu rays only advantage then maybe u could see film companies goin neutral or even going exclusive to hd dvd, this war is not over yet

[lawman1108]

Just wait for the numbers on the A3 hd dvd player after it sells this week.

[lawman1108]

Just wait for the numbers on the A3 hd dvd player after it sells this week.

[marinelife9]

The problem with the triple layer disc is because the way it is made none of the current players can read it. Something to do with how the laser diode was made to read through the layers. A ten layer Blu-Ray disc would have the same shortcoming.

http://www.techpowerup.com/...

[Kholinar]

This is not a troll, but I'd find a more reliable source. From later on in the thread (a conversation between a poster and the original article poster):

"Poster - "Uh.. a single layered Blue-Ray disk can hold 25GB of data. How can three layers hold 50GB?
And also, a triple-layered HD-DVD can only hold 45GB, so how can Toshiba "magically" make one that is 51GB? Then its not HD-DVD, its HD-DVD+ or something.

zekrahminator -Don't ask me, ask the news source I got this stuff off of :)."

If they're not even correct on br storage numbers, then I doubt we can trust any other data without collaboration.

[marinelife9]

Your okay Kohl. Ritek made the statement. They were stating that even their ten layer Blu-Ray disc (With the same technology applicable to HD DVD as well) would not be readable on current players.

http://www.engadget.com/200...

[blackmagic]

All articles concerning whether HD DVD players could read 51GB discs stemmed from this interview with Jim Armour, Engineer - Optical Disc Device Division, Toshiba, who was asked about whether players could read 3 layer 45Gb discs:

DVDTimes: Basically, not good enough to get anything out of, then?
Jim Armour, Toshiba: Not good enough to get information out of, WITHOUT this PRML circuitry, and the first drives don't have PRML circuitry built in. I don't think that even with a firmware upgrade, you'd be able to do it.
DVDTimes: Right, it's physical hardware then?
Jim Armour, Toshiba: Yeah, I think second or third generation hardware - fine, but not first-generation products.
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/c...

Toshiba must feel confident about it now though because here is Jim Armour's outlook now:

The good news is that the 51GB discs should play in all HD DVD players currently on the market. We discussed this with James Armour from Toshiba's optical storage division at CeBIT this year, and were told that although the third layer would be harder to read, and generate more data errors, the player's error correction should be able to fix these problems without picture and sound problems.
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/dvd...

[Arutha]

Toshiba has packed the data better onto each layer which has allowed them to change it from 15 gigs a layer to 17 gigs a layer. That is how they are getting 51 Gigs for a Triple Layer. Also the original NEC Drive was spec'd for a 45Gig Triple Layer so there is a good possibility that the current player will be able to play the triple layer discs.

Time will tell to see what plays out.

[kewlkat007]

They give

1.Support to Blu-Ray
2.Sell content off Xbox Live
3.Backing HD-DVD technologies.

That's right, what they got to loose, NOTHING.

They are prepared.. to go whichever way.

Like I said I don't care so much for this war, seriously, I don't even own DVD's but its interesting to watch what develops, who pays who for unfinished formats, and temp deals.

Seems like Fanboys have more to loose in this war. Making declaration left and right. I went to Walmart yesterday and them DVD bins had plenty of hands in them looking for bargins.

[Tru_Blu]

OMG!!!!!! Blu-ray is gonna make v1.1 discs? that will play in v1.0 players, without the extras? But HDvD is gonna make new 51gb discs that won't play in any current players?? The fanboy standard has been raised once again, just when you though it couldn't. Like Kewl said, they just want to be 100% on every outcome.

[Zhuk]

With recent strong sales of HD DVD in Europe and the US combined with growing support for the format, I think that many companies are rethinking their stance on HD DVD and considering dropping exclusivity with Blu Ray to support both formats.

[marinelife9]

Your entire post just got dismissed once you stated the words and I quote "I think".

[Kholinar]

"Your entire post just got dismissed once you stated the words and I quote "I think"."

Pffft. I disagree with Zhuk most of the time, but what you've just stated is department of redundancy department material.

Everyone here just states what they "think"/opinions occasionally backed up with numbers from corporations with vested interests or media/statistic companies trying to sell stat analysis...

Even if it was complete facts without Zhuk stating "I think," people would ignore it because they're too wrapped up in what "they think."

[GrizAdams]

Marinelife,

At the very least, it's probably best that he included 'I think.'

So many people state their opinions as fact, yet Zhuk stated an opinion - disguised in no way as fact. There's no reason to criticize that.

[demolitionX]

for players that will not read the 51GB discs, and will be thrown in the nearest garbage if this 51GB get released!!!! keep dreaming!!!!

[marinelife9]

I'm glad we've established that you put a lot more stock into what someone thinks on a message board than I do. If you think his hunch about what a movie exec may or may not be speculating is valid there is nothing I can do to stop you. As for me I decided that unless he had a quote or proof his opinion didn't count for much. But that's just me.

[Kholinar]

"If you think his hunch about what a movie exec may or may not be speculating is valid there is nothing I can do to stop you. As for me I decided that unless he had a quote or proof his opinion didn't count for much. But that's just me."

Glad to hear your opinion. :p

I'm not sure exactly where I stated that his opinion meant anything to me. I just stated that, as a comment, it's no different than 99% of the other comments. So your statement is a little unnecessary.

[GrizAdams]

I don't necessarily agree with Zhuk's sentiments, but I do think it fair that he be able to state an opinion as an opinion.

If you want to see the opposite, where opinion (if even that) is stated as fact, look no further than demoltitionx's post.

[BIoodmask]

to manufacture these new 51 GB disks there really won't be any difference bw Bluray and HD DVD. I know that Blu-ray has the higher content per layer on the disk, but 51 GB is more than sufficient for movies. Anything greater would more than likely be used for PC storage, but with the large HDDs coming out now it really isn't necessary.

I have to laugh at Disney though. It seems like they are playing everyone. They support Blu-ray exclusively, then they approve the new HD DVD standard, "and" they also have movies out on XBLM. LOL

[Altis1]

Most corporations will do that.

[Mu5afir]

First off, HD-DVD needs 3 layers to reach 51gb. Blu-Ray gets 75gb at 3 layers and 50gb at 2 layers. You can never have too much space, as evident by the fact that most HD-DVDs don't even carry HIGH DEFINITION audio.

The Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD war is OVER, Ps3 sales roughly 400 thousand units a month. In two months of Ps3 sales, the numbers totals all HD-DVD sales (including HD-DVD addon for Xbox 360).

The only excuse most people make is the "stand alone players", as if they want some type of "handicap" victory. If you weren't supporting Xbox 360 / Ps3 I am sure you would want to support the best format out there.

As a CONSUMER, I want the best format not DVD v2.. so I support the Blu-Ray format.

[bootsielon]

There's never enough space. DVD9 is too small for games just as HD-DVD is too small for HD movies. The fact that games and movies can be made for these formats doesn't mean they are ideal. I'm not saying that Blu-ray is ideal either; even Kojima said that 50 GB won't be enough for MGS4.

There is a trilogy announced for Blu-ray and it comes in a single disc. It would be awesome to get the whole LOTR trilogy in HD in a single disc (It's not a fanboy dream, as I said, there's already a trilogy in production for blu-ray, I think it's encounters of the 3rd kind but I'm not sure). It would also be awesome to have a whole TV season of your favorite program in a single disc instead of five like the current model. I would pay more.

Even then, there would be a limit, whether it's 200 Gigabyte, 3.9 Terabytes, or 1.1 Petabytes. Resolution on TVs will keep increasing (Ultra Hi-Vision anyone?), and it won't be feasible to keep making new formats and HDDs. That's why content on demand will be king; but that won't happen until 2035 or so when most people have Gigabit Ethernet.

For now, the most viable solution should be Blu-ray. Its price isn't that far from HD-DVD anymore, especially if you consider PS3. Since most people don't have an HDTV now, the war has a long time from being over. First the great majority people would have to have an HDTV. By then, Blu-ray will be as cheap as HD-DVD, but with superior technology.

For those reasons, and for the fact that I want to burn all of my information on big ass discs (ones that are comercially supported), I want Blu-ray to win, until there are other better than BD solutions.

[blackmagic]

You forgot to mention that 55% of all Blu-ray releases are on 25GB discs and that 30% of all Blu-ray releases use Dolby Digital streams with a max bitrate of 640 kb/s.
http://www.blu-raystats.com...

90% of HD DVD releases use Dolby Digital Plus with a max bitrate of 3000 kb/s, 20% have lossless streams and NO releases use the lowly Dolby Digital CODEC.
http://www.hddvdstats.com/i...

Edit: I might add that Disney/Beuna Vista, who stated they needed the space as the reason to go Blu-ray, has released 20 films out of 45 total releases on 25 GB discs.

Edit 2: Thanks Kholinar!

[Kholinar]

very impressive links...

[Mu5afir]

Please, don't misinform people with "max" bit rates. Just because the codec can encode at 3000kbs doesn't mean the encode will happen at 3000kbs. Secondly, the coding process is left to the studios it isn't ruled on by the Blu-Ray association.

I highly doubt few if ANY HD-DVDs are coded at 3000kbs, you can always prove me wrong. I won't bother going into the technical specs of why a typical HD-DVD disk can't have lossless audio and video, but I think you get the point.

Blu-Ray loosless: 59.50% .
HD-DVD loosless: 19.72%

This is from YOUR SOURCES, so there. :)

[blackmagic]

You need to read up before you speak up bud. The Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Plus CODECs support variable bitrates. Because Dolby Digital is an old (created in 1992), ineffiecient CODEC compared to Dolby Digital Plus and because it also caps out at 640kb/s on Blu-ray, most encodes are set at a constant maximum of 640kb/s throughout the whole film. For Dolby Digital Plus on HD DVD, most encodes are set up for 1500 kb/s variable bitrate which means that in complex sound sections the full 3000kb/s is used but the AVERAGE bitrate is kept at 1500kb/s. Anybody with a rudimentary understanding of these CODECs would understand this however some people that don't take the time to educate themselves often make fools of themselves, throwing around insults and bullying other members when they actually don't have a clue.

Now it is completely true (and I was and continue to be fully aware of this) that 60% of Blu-ray releases are lossless but this does not change the fact that 30% are using the dated, inefficient low bitrate Dolby Digital CODEC and it doesn't change the fact that >EVERY< HD DVD release is using a better CODEC than the Dolby Digital CODEC.

It is also debatable whether a lossless stream is perceptively better than a DD+ stream ESPECIALLY when not using audiophile level equipment in a tuned listening environment. Even then I think you would need a trained ear to percieve it.

If you are going to claim clear audio superiority over HD DVD then you need to back it up with concise evidence because based on the level of knowledge shown in your comments I am certainly not going to take your word for it and I am not talking about anecdotal evidence either.

Perhaps next time you can make a comment that adds value to the site instead of attacking anyone that doesn't agree with your uninformed opinion.

[MikeMichaels]

For the next news post about and hour from now saying, "Disney: We never said anything about HD-DVD blah blah blah"

...thats pretty much the way things go around here. *rolls eyes*

Fanboys, save your self the embarrassment and just read the news without beating your chest for one company or the other.

[Neo-Delta]

Meh it's so obviously that HD-DVD only use this 51GB disc as a marketing ploy I mean they can only manage to squeese 1GB higher then a dual layered Blu-Ray? I'm sure thay could have went higher. I mean if they manage 51GB on a triple layer what can blu-ray manage?

[Mu5afir]

75gb at triple layer.

[Danja]

umm dude not saying wrong but..but I don't think Blu-ray has a 75GB..I Thought it would have been 100GB..and they are working on specs for the 200GB..!!

question can most HD-DVD player even manage the 51GB disc's without breaking..?

[Mu5afir]

It's 25gb per layer at 3x layer times 25gb = 75gbs. At 4 layers it's 100gb and at 8 layers it's 200gb. Blu-Ray has a constant read speed, so it won't slow down between layers. ;)

[mighty_douche]

more DVD related threads on a gaming website....

woohoo, cant get enough of DVD's!!!

[paul_war]

You know you like it really.

[xsteinbachx]

to much speculation.

[whoelse]

It maybe be possible to get 51GB on an HDDVD but 3 layers is very costly when you can get 2 layers for 1 GB less.

[Covenant]

Just when we thought this insane format war couldn't get any crazier...if Disney jumps ship/goes multi, then all bets are off.

I'm still not buying either until we have a clear winner or unified format.

[jaja1434]

Same, then again I don't even have an HD TV so it's kind of a moot point for me. Though these post are fun to read. :)

[smoothdude]

I agree with jaja. I don't have an HDTV and I won't get one until there is a final winner. DVDs are cheaper right now so I am in no rush, but it is hilarious to read what people are saying about the format wars.

[Neo-Delta]

Blu-ray get 100Gb at 3 layer not 75GB

[Mu5afir]

25gb a layer times 3 = 75gb for 3 layers which is 24gb more then HD-DVDs. :)

[tfur]

It may be a stealth move to fracture the current install base for HDDVD. All current standalone hardware, 360 add-ons will be not be compatible with 3 layer discs... You cannot firmware upgrade to 3 layer compatibility...

So you create 2 formats within HDDVD...

Interesting thought...

[jaja1434]

Umm yes they can... At least thats what the guy said who makes the players... The only ones that might have trouble are the first generation ones.

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/c...

[tfur]

Could you please quote where it is addressed?

EDIT: Again, can you post a quote? The article you link to is from the summer of last year, speculating on the 2007 summer... And it does not mention triple layer??

[jaja1434]

Sorry pasted wrong link

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/dvd...

[tfur]

"and were told that although the third layer would be harder to read, and generate more data errors, the player's error correction should be able to fix these problems without picture and sound problems."

If you are banking on this comment, then I think you should look somewhere else. I would prefer something better than hearsay, from a CNET reporter. The idea that you would be doing error correction from the start is not acceptable.

Lets wait and see... I am betting on it not working. From everything I have ever read, it requires a lens alteration.

[jaja1434]

I somewhat agree with you in that at least. But most of the "it work work" is just coming from either, people who really have no clue, or fanboy who don't want it to work. Not saying your one of the those two, just that most fall into this group.

[cuco33]

Disney head says HD DVD is dead and only delays BD's eventual win only to give approval to TL51 (51gb triple layer) and TL Twin disks (single sided dual format triple layer hd dvd & dvd)

[IBLEEDBLU]

u hit 51GB - 1 GB more then the standard blu-ray disc...clap clap clap oh whats this...how people tend to 4get about CES 2007 where TDK a supporter for blu-ray disc had on display a 200GB blu-ray disc

http://www.tgdaily.com/cont...

nice try HD DVD camp - but maybe next...actually ya ur done lol

PS3 = war was over b4 it started -

[cuco33]

Why would Disney care about a 200gb disk?

Think about this....

MOVIES.

Is a 200gb disk required for movies? NO.

Is Disney in the storage media business? NO.

[smoothdude]

Well, from my math HD DVD is only 45 GB. 15 GB times 3 layers is 45 GB not 51 GB. I don't know who is in charge at toshiba for doing mathmatics, but I think they should try again. It looks like a marketing move. I mean come on 1 GB bigger than blue ray double layer?????

[jaja1434]

Mr Smooth-
Each layer in the 51gig is 17gigs. Where as the current one is 15gig. They squeezed in another 2 gigs per layer. But next time I would suggest looking it up, since its always been referred to as 51gigs perhaps thats the way it is. Just a thought.

[pacman615]

they can use one disc for bundle package....imagine having 8 movies on one disc for a lower price...then buying 8 different movies

[joevfx]

all this means is disney is coverign there bases just incase blu ray loses. it doenst mean they are moving anywhere. they have to muc money invested in blu ray.

[desolationstorm]

wow a lot of fanboys out there haha. I dont know why I bother even checking quotes on this stuff. people talk like they are getting paid for their loyality. Its a format war and its still got a ways to go. You guys can bicker over whos d!ck is bigger have fun because it will affect the format war Im sure.

[Bleucrunch]

Why are we even entertaing this Blu-ray is winning and that's that, not 51 gigbyte disc will prove otherwise. GOSH!

[Bladestar]

This prove how certain is that blu-ray will win... it show how dedicated Studios are toward each format... It will be funny if now that blu-ray have no advantage over HD DVD as far as movies are concern... 51GB more than enough to for any movie..

[fury]

I can tell you who wins: Hybrid Players.

[PS3 Limps on and on]

They're the driving force of Blu ray. It makes no sense. Wish I knew the whole story because there's probably a twist somewhere.

We hear news like this all the time that ends up being bullsh*t all the time.

[Kain81]

Blu-Ray ONLY: Power to the People

[OmegaKulu]

Ummm... my bad =P

[Marceles]

Abstention is a term in election procedure for when a participant in a vote either does not go to vote (on election day) or, in parliamentary procedure, is present during the vote, but does not cast a ballot

-Wiki

[desolationstorm]

They did not abstain from the vote which the article talks about. They did abstain on some votes pertaining to Hddvd but not triple layer 51gig disc. Disney is not mentioned as abstaining from that particular vote. Bottom of page 2 and top of page 3 of the minutes from the meeting. They did abstain from a few votes however.

You cant search disney and find the vote because they are not mentioned if you actually read the article or skimmed for the 51gig trple layer hd dvd you would have noticed.

[OOG FunK]

meh some healthy competition...to bad we get caught in the cross fire

[SSCOOLCHEA]

blu ray isnt going anywhere so who care . Ask yourself this do you think sony is just going to pack up and go .

[Kain81]

l0l

[godofthunder10]

HEY MAN,WHEN YOU SAID triple-layered HD-DVD can only hold 45GB is wrong, it could hold 51gb and that's a fact,and the 51 gb disc will work on all the hd-dvd player that they sold already because a spokesmen for Toshiba already said that it will.
how can a person really belive that disney will only support sony and put their movies on br.hell disney doesn't give a sh*t about sony,all they care about is making money.the only thing that br had over hd-dvd is space.disney knows that 51gb is all you need for movies and that's why they voted on the 51gb hd-dvd.
disney knows that hd-dvd players been selling well and by next year disney will have to start making hd-dvd disc because of all the players that been sold.disney is like any other company,the more profits the better.the only reason that disney went exclusive with br is because of disc space.the reason why disney voted for the 51gb is because it has the same amount of space that br has,but now they will be even.disney knows that if they start making hd-dvds that they will make a bigger profit because it's cheaper to make.look at it this way,if you have a store and sell your can sodas for 50cents and they make the sodas at 2 places.1 place will cost you 25 cents to make them so that will give you a 25cent profit but the other company can make them for 20cents a can so that will give you a 30cents profit who will make your soda.
i don't have a br or hd dvd player because i was waiting to see who wins but i might get a hd-dvd player now because it's a lot cheaper and people could say what they want but disney is getting ready to make hd-dvd disc to because of the hd dvd stand alone dvd player selling so well and the new 51 gb and that's why they voted for it.
the hd dvd players are flying off the shelfs since they went down on the price and every where i went they were sold out.i was at best buy yesterday and i've seen 3 people buying the $400 hd dvd players(the 1 with 2 movies inside it)and they were onside a stack of br players in the middle of the floor.
hd-dvd is catching up with br and like i said disney knows it and that's why they voted for the 51gb hd dvd disc.disney dosen't care about sony winning all they care about is how much profit they could make,and they could make a lot more profit if they use hd dvds and they know it .

[motang]

Wow...this is surprise, well that is good and hopefully we can see Pirates of the Caribbean on HD-DVD! :-D

[Boink]

it would be nice if all stuodios supported both formats and then just let the people decide which they like better.

[drewlusk]

There is no difference in quality between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. Most even say that HD-DVD looks better and has better funtions. Also it is the cheaper of the formats to produce. With that being said I won't purchase either. I have a Vista cablecard media center PC and I get my HD Movies off of HBO and Showtime HD. I then can steam them to one of my 3 360's. To spend 30 to 40 to replace a movie in my collection is not worth if for a slightly better picture. VHS to dvd sure? Dvd to HD? Not a great leap for the money. Better audio? Not many people really care about that. 5.1 DD or DTS is perfectly fine.

Who needs physical media I will only store movies on my media server.

[Raptors]

Thats very interesting that Disney did that. Things that make you go hhhmmmm.....

[DFresh]

doubt it
at the rate sales are going with the Blu-ray player
why would Disney switch this early?

[Arutha]

What cracks me up is everyone thinking the so called war is almost over. I would maybe see it if HDM sales were atleast 50% of DVD sales, but it is not even close.

[kewlkat007]

Disney is playing everyone. They give

1.Support to Blu-Ray
2.Sell Disney content off Xbox Live
3.Backing HD-DVD technologies.

That's right, what they got to loose, NOTHING.

They are prepared.. to go whichever way.

Like I said I don't care so much for this war, seriously, I don't even own DVD's but its interesting to watch what develops, who pays who for unfinished formats, and temp deals.

Seems like Fanboys have more to loose in this war. Making declaration left and right.

I went to Walmart yesterday and them DVD bins had plenty of hands in them looking for bargins.

[pshizle]

FILMWARE updates on hddvd systems how about bluray...

[insanegamer]

gahhhhh just stick to DVD!!!!

Joking

[Tru_Blu]

Could this kinda thing be why when I go to buy movies HDuDs and Blus are the same price? WTF happened to cheap? Oh ya they get you on the cheap player then stick you on the movies. Sure buncha 98 dollar buyers are gonna spend 30 on one movie. Ya that is how it goes, buy cheap then pay out the ass, I'm sure they are lining up right now and the next NPD is gonna show how HDuD out sold Blu.

[Tru_Blu]

In other news Toshiba and Sony make cells, this could mean they agree and the HDuD will be done.

[Cherchez La Ghost]

What's really going on?! Pro-Blu Disney approving someting for HD-DVD?! Hmmm....! I smell something brewing in a pot about this.

[demolitionX]

I was with mickey yesterday, he told me that he loves blu-ray and his PS3.

[kreetah]

There are >>20<< companies involved INCLUDING Sony in the HD-DVD committee and this is just an approval of the format. How, when, and if they are going to mass produce them is still a big unknown. How it will affect the percent of failures is still unknown since by adding a layer they have increased the number of times they have to “roll” to get a winner by 33%.

It’s so comforting to know that HD-DVD has this “finished” (but constantly changing) specification unlike Blu-Ray - LOL

Companies on the HD-DVD committee
1. Hitachi, Ltd.
2. IBM Corporation
3. Industrial Technology Research Institute
4. Intel Corporation
5. LG Electronics Inc.
6. Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd.
7. Microsoft Corporation
8. Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
9. NEC Corporation
10. PIONEER CORPORATION
11. Royal Philips Electronics
12. SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.
13. SANYO Electric Co., Ltd.
14. SHARP CORPORATION
15. Sony Corporation
16. THOMSON
17. Toshiba Corporation
18. Victor Company of Japan, Limited
19. Walt Disney Pictures and Television
20. Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.

[Multigamer]

hd dvd is gaining momentum, blu ray is loosing momentum, and the film companies know it to, be affraid sony be very affraid

[guerojose]

Hehehe. Another day and another desperate attempt to spin things in favor of the failing HD-DVD format. This is like a bad soap opera, that can't be over soon enough.

[Testo]

"51GB more than enough to for any movie.. "

I'm sorry but its NEVER enough space.

I keep thinking of Trilogies and TV series
Instead of having 2-3 disks for the First season of Heroes on HD-DVD have the entire thing on 1, 100Gig Blu disk.

Imagine getting the Star Wars movies (all 6) on 1 Disk.

[cow moolester]

I don't think consumers would like that....People like the "specialness" (If thats even a word) of having a multi-disc Limited edition or series.