John Carmack expressed his reasons for developing Rage for the console, and expressed frustration about the PC launch.
WTF, I knew it didnt want to say disagree if you like guy's But i heard him at quake con all he was speaking about was how he started and Microsoft how easy was to develop for and the SDK kit MS sent them. gamers loved Doom quake you known for your work i cant bare to read this article dam. My opinion disagree but i knew this comming gut feeling.
this guy was made through PC gaming, now he says these things. glad i never paid for RAGE and will never touch a title of carmacks again. also RAGE is a very average game.
he's been sucked into the greed involved with releasing a crappy PC version and only caring about the consoles, he acts like he didn't know what he was doing... I will never see Carmack the same way now
I glad i didn't buy Rage PC. It's a mess. John Carmack really fu*ked up the PC version.
LOL So many peeps on this website kept bubbling me down before RAGE released for saying "Carmack is not as great as he used to be."
And when bf3 is a major success? What then? ive said it time and time again. Carmacks lost it. Hes out of touch with pc gamers and I cant see him ever making anything other than mediocre. Btw I called rage being mediocre years ago. The guy has given up on pc gaming long ago and the pc gaming hardcore has given ip on him long ago. good luck on future projects john. Cuz you're seriously gonna need it
John Carmack is way way overrated. The guy hasn't done anything great in the last 10 years, and according to most user reviews that I've seen, RAGE is a bust. But there are only a handful of websites that have the balls to call RAGE what it really is, and its that the game is nothing more than mediocre with borrowed ideas from borderlands and Fall Out 3.
Greed? You can't even reach the grapes. Someone is certainly sour. The reason only a handful of websites have given poor reviews is that most sites recognize the game for the it's achievement and sound gameplay. Carmack makes games because he enjoys it. His other passions in the aerospace industry and elsewhere have brought him plenty of money so that gaming isn't a necessity for him. Greed? Really? The greatest day in gaming remains the moment that John Carmack first walked by a computer and said, "Cool, how does that work." I cut my teeth on PC games and really threw myself at it with games from Id. I am likely older than 99% of the people here and have been gaming Carmack's work since day 1. Id is a great developer and that truth hasn't changed. The fact that he understands the industry better than a group of PC purists is without question. He is stating the facts of gaming and finance. Nowhere did Carmack say that the PC wasn't a better platform or a more powerful platform. In fact he indicated the opposite. He is stating a reality about the industry and buying trends. Money makes the world go around and avoiding the facts do not change their reality...or their impact. "...both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version." You cannot argue that point. If people want to say that if Id focused more on the PC then the public would buy more PC games, then they need to look at history. It wasn't Id that walked away from PC gaming. It was the public that made PC games less lucrative and consoles more attractive. And buy the public I mean PC gamers themselves are in a large part to blame. I can almost guarantee that if anyone went to Todd Hollenshead and said, "Here. Take these millions of dollars and keep the Doom IV off of consoles. Just build a PC version" then Id would likely bite. You can't expect them to ignore that revenue. Do you have any idea of the number of people working at Id that have families? Or the companies that work in association with Id? On a separate note it looks as if the PS3 version of Doom IV will continue to get it's own development pipeline as the Cell is running Supertexturing. And remember, PC gamers made consoles the lead platforms. Whether it was screaming and refusing to buy games because they couldn't run them on a computer assembled with duct tape, a coathanger, a 500MB HDD, and 17 viruses they have had since Windows 98, or whether it was outright piracy. Here is the bitter truth. Consolers were not pirating PC games to bring consoles to the forefront. PC gamers were pirating PC games. Consoles are the lead in this industry because console gamers buy games. The very attitude of "I'll never buy another Carmack game again" is what created the situation in the first place. As well we have the Doom III debate where Carmack discussed PC gamers not wanting to upgrade and expecting to be able to run the latest engined titles on a Voodoo Banshee. They were doing the very thing of which they accuse consolers, refusing to upgrade. Here is the best part. By refusing to buy Id games you are assisting in the furtherment of the very thing you claim to despise - console prominence. Irony much? It is laughable to hear a group of people flinging themselves against the wall that a week ago were worshiping at his feet and generating the very situation to breed more Id console titles.
@morganfell so true. People act like it's a Sin to make money to spoil your families.........
Good post, Morganfell.
I was one of the people defending Carmack and praising him right up until the release of RAGE. I was certain, given his past, that he would be an uncompromising PC developer. I am upset that he went down this road. I get that consoles are very easy to develop for because of the SDK kits and the debugging tools and because the platform hardware is homogeneous. But, I believed that Carmack's love of technological progress and computing power would compel him to focus on PC. There's so much more he could have done if he hadn't limited himself.
what an interesting turn around of events. you know, i recall many a conversation (and i use that term loosely) on this here site, concerning a certain Sony product V the 360 and the PC. it went on for quite some time with those brave enough to question Carmack's opinion and always lead to fans of said Sony product being lambasted and with Carmack being held aloft as the ultimate proof that the PS3 wasn't all it was cracked up to be... 'he should know!', 'he's a genius', 'this industry owes him a debt of gratitude' and so forth. remember, he knows what he's talking about fellas, he's a genius and we all owe him a debt of gratitude. remember those words people and remember what you used to post way back when Carmack said what you wanted to hear oh the joyous petulance of the PC owner.
He's not saying anything new, so why do you care? PCs are always cared for after consoles, and are rarely ever the lead platform for games. RAGE was designed for console tech in mind, remember.
He might have been made through the PC but times change. There a developer who have to stay alive through good sales so they can further fund more titles. And like it or not Consoles are the future of gaming and are currently the best option to gain funds
@morganfell Well said, I could not have put it better and will continue to support id studios until I die or they make a game that completely flops(I'll likely die first ;P)
"oh the joyous petulance of the PC owner." Switch it to, "Oh the joyous petulance of the petulant individual," and I'll agree. Irritating, blind fanboyism exists in all quarters. And it's not like the PC version of Rage is some kind of unholy blight. A few issues with ATI cards and suddenly the game causes cancer?
"You can choose to design a game around the specs of a high-end PC and make console versions that fail to hit the design point, or design around the specs of the consoles and have a high-end PC provide incremental quality improvements," Carmack replied. "We chose the latter." Why Was The PC Launch of Rage Such A "[email protected]#$"? The fact that id had already decided that they wanted Rage to run at 60 frames per second already removed one of the major things PC gamers look for in a title, he continued. That only left resolution, anti-aliasing, and texture streaming as things that a computer gamer might want to see look better than on a console. http://kotaku.com/5847761/w... You can't blame the guy for the market direction... if you own a console and wanted it otherwise, you are partly to blame.
it still has better textures on pc, better texture loading as well with the correct drivers. Of course aa and vsync are welcome features as well. It would be nice if it was a bit more pc centric, but im fine with the game the way it is. Higher res does make a big difference too, just look at all these "hd remakes".
Is that Kevin Butler claiming PC is better than consoles?! ;)
You know that Doom III was locked at 60 fps too right? You had to use the console to remove the cap, if you absolutely wanted to, but out of the box it was still locked at 60 fps. Nice try.
"We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games,” said John Carmack, as he explained the company’s reasons for focusing Rage’s development on consoles." Although PC Gaming makes up over half of the total Gaming revenue! What ever Dooche Bag!! Carmack has been contradicting himself and turning into a real arse kisser as of late. The amount of bugs and errors in the Rage PC version is horrible and especially from Carmack who got his start on the PC. You think carmack would release a really polished PC version but no it was a pure Bug fest. Now he is saying stupid things like this and just being Butt Hurt cause he was TOTALLY WRONG about Ray Tracing and Intel has been laughing at Carmack ever since! I feel Carmack is burnt out and a has been who is sipping too much of his own kool-aid. He's lost his touch and Doom 4 better blow our minds or Carmack is Game-Over! Rage PC Comes with a free can of Raid and a Fly Swatter!!
First he says pc should have been lead platform now it says this? he makes no sence! i wont be getting anymore games that this guy makes. the end.
why? because he said this? what a lame excuse/reason
No not because he said this but cos any other game hes ganna make is ganna be a shitty port just like rage is. it should be pc first then consoles to push tech not the other way round.
fair enough thanks for the reply
What a crap ... after soooo many years developing with PC as the lead platform they are now saying these bull***s .... I hope Rage sells less than Doom3/Quake3 ... that should teach Id a lesson. Doom3 was a PC centric title and sold more than 3.5 million copies 2.2 million on PCs http://gamrreview.vgchartz.... Now lets see how many copies this consolised F**K sells.
Oh pretty sure 'RAGE' will sell way more than 2.2mil copies on the 360/PS3.. Why get mad over it though, PC gamers still got the game. Consoles (for now) is where the market is at. Really can't blame Id for going for that market and to potentially make hundreds of millions of dollars in the process.
Wow so much hate, years and years of great games and you all turn on him over this...the man who basically created the biggest genre in gaming. What's even funnier is everyone is acting like he makes all the decisions on everything, stop being baby's...besides te PC modding community will have texture mods in no time.
Yeah that makes him the worst of betrayers ... If Ubisoft comes and says, Far Cry 3 will not lead on PCs we wont even give a F**k .... but we in no way expectd this from ID .... at least graphics and the fast pace shooting the typical properties of PC fps was the main reason of their game sales ... the only reason their sales slowed down is not piracy , they did not add elements like puzzles to their games ....
Why because of graphics??? What ever happened to just wanting a fun game. It's not like the game looks like crap either and I believe they're patching in more graphic options for the game too.
@ZombieAssassin I know the person who submitted this took it out of context, but look at it like this: Imagine lead person for company A, starts up on Platform A. Throughout the many years they focused with Platform A, 2 more platforms B and C showed up, but they pull out excellent products on Platform A, along side of a few on B and C. Now after many years of having a good understanding on platform A, the lead person is praising it up and down for many years. Now out of the blue he diminishes Platform A after a major project. You don't see any slight distrust into what was said? If it's not hate, it's definitely a question of logic.
I can see why PC gamers are upset but times have changed in the 20 years the man has been working in the industry, consoles is where the money is at for a majority of games and it makes sense to work on the lowest platform first so you can just build upon it for more advanced hardware. I just think everyone is being little children about it saying "i'll never buy a Camrack game again", although I'm sure they'll still pirate it. I guess to your analogy, things change and the way people do things change...i mean what if we kept with 16 bit operating systems just because people were use to them. It's painfully obvious gamers are terrible at accepting any type of change...especially ones who pay $300 for a GPU...
See this is the thing. It's not so much as leading towards the masses, it's that from the context taken in the quote, it's making as if the latest tech doesn't match up to 5+ yr old tech, especially with the way how people act on this site. They'll be the first, ready to shoot down "praises" of the PC, but the instant someone opens their mouth and talks down about it, you see people agreeing in droves for no reason, logic or not. I mean look at the comment down below that says "PC Fanboys u mad"... And yet, you know for a fact those same people that knock down the praises are hypocrites, as when you see articles about X game on X platform vs Y game on Y platform, you bet they'll be the first one to wave around that praise if "their" platform beats the other. The other thing, is that this guy is all about tech, and to suddenly say something like this, means that something happened behind the lines that isn't being explained. I agree that people are childish about saying they'll never buy another carmack game again, but that doesn't excuse the other people thinking this is some sort of school yard brawl that they can just mob in on and get away with it.
Don't you know, video games aren't about fun anymore. It's all about pixel counting and waving you e-pennis around.
im guessing this is taken out of context. I think he will learn where his audience is though, its not about what platform is more successful its about who is interested in your product.
He isn't saying anything wrong. "Nowadays most of the quality of a game comes from the development effort put into it, not the technology it runs on." So he doesn't think that a high-end PC should be the focal point of the game's design. Rather, it should focus on a lower level (such as consoles) so that a bigger portion of gamers can enjoy the game. ... although that doesn't explain why RAGE has been such a mess on PCs. EDIT: The simple stuff like FOV settings and advanced controls/visual options aren't there. I haven't been able to find a proper way of quitting the game either. There's some design decisions that show that not much thought went into the PC version. Oh well, at least they didn't encrypt the config files.
i think its fine on pc, amds drivers were messed. But im pretty sure I read the interview the quote came from, and Im pretty sure the author added a sentence or two. all these articles talking down the pc as a gaming platform... its just one after the other never focusing on the advantages.
Lol pc fanboys, u mad?
No Jason2, if that is your name. We are just slightly upset. Thanks for caring though.
U definitely mad xD lol.
hahaha console noobs always a console noob. I bet you cant even afford your own console, your mommy gets it for xmas hahahaha...PC GAMER MASTER RACE HERE. BRING IT ON! WILL DESTROY YOU ANYTIME
I7 2600k clocked at 4.1 ghz , 2 2 gig 6950s, 16 gigs of ram, and two 2 terabyte hardrives, playing on a 24 inch monitor xD. One 6950 is flashed to a 6970 :p. Lol Im currently playing oblivion getting my mods from http://tesnexus.com/downloa... lol nice try tho, u mad xD? Lol I love pc gaming. My pcs probably better than yours lmao
Sweet rig and yeah ur right they are mad. Not sure why it's such a big deal. PC fanboys alway act like they are superior because they game on PC. Most of them are just fanboy's with entry level rigs. Advice to PC fanboys, not because someone is a console primary gamer means ur PC is better. Some of us just rather game on consoles.
hahaha, awww it sounded good till u said 6950. Go xf 6970, eyefinity and 24 gb rams..then we can talk lmfao
Sounded good my ass lmao this pc can handle anything so yeah lol. Nice try tho xD. U still mad. Lol
No man, to be honest the only game by id I have played was Doom 3 on the original xbox. I don't really care for Carmack or his opinions that much. I was just trying to get you to comment for the second time after six months. I R WIN.
Congratulations?? Lol too bad you already said you were upset xD. U mad lol. " I don't really care for Carmack or his opinions that much." yeah you just felt the need to comment on this particular article, to get some random guy you don't know over the internet to comment twice. Lol I totaly believe you. And to pctroll below. Nah I'm good, I think ill stick with my pc because its still 10 times better than my xbox/ps3 :P. "yours is better by a whole lot" doubt it.
haha no man, sitll sounded good, nice try, but mines better by a whole lot...keep playing xbox bro it suits you better
I'm sorry you don't believe me Jason Number 2, or realize that I was joking.(Whoever took jason1 is probably just an ass.) My first comment was complete satire/sarcasm if you couldn't tell (obviously) from my tone. I realized this was just a silly troll comment and checked your profile like a creepy internet guy and saw that it was your first comment in like 100 something days. Then I proceeded to dominate everything that represents you, and succeeded at it. And stop putting lol after and before everything. Now THAT makes me infuriated bro. lol @mitsuhede I don't really care about id software, never really played there games. But what I said first was just a joke to Jason, and realized I should not of have fed the troll because then I feel the need to fight back with them.
Lol no offense dude, but if you really didn't care, you wouldn't feel the need to explain yourself...xD.
I've always thought Carmack spouted complete and utter garbage, but the games his been involved in I have really enjoyed. hell quake 2 was my first introduction to online shooters, I liked the doom games. and I really like Rage, yeah the PC version isn't as polished as we would like but it is an enjoyable game.
lol.....he's just mad his mediocre old game is getting stomped in reviews because it is nothing special! Whatever he may say, the pc is always , 100% of the time, the best version, lol....even when dev don't try! WHY?? Better native resoltuion Better anti aliasing MODS, *read the community will fix what you were to lazy to! Better performance, Better controls The console version of every multiplat if always, always gimped by the weak 6 year old hardware, they run terrible, have pop-in and jaggies and zero mods, and patches take FOREVER to come out on console!
I think one thing that people fail to realize, the tech is starting to plateau. At some point a $300 laptop will play any game you want, its really not that far off. also the game is fun.
The guy loves tech and making games. He obviously wanted to try to make a multiplat pc/console game, good for him. I was curious to see how great a console game could be coming from id and we got one of the most beautiful games ever, big open environments, and 60fps. The bar has been raised. Rage looks amazing to me and il pick it up this weekend. I can see why some pc guys are dissapointed as i hear rage has problems on pc but it still looks like its far beyond consoles with the mega textures and whatnot. They are still a pc centric company, one multiplat doesnt mean carmack sold out.
PC is great and all but more and more developers are going with consoles. Games sell more on consoles.
But PC Gaming still accounts for over half of the total Gaming Revenue and increasing every year! PC Gaming is projected to surpass ALL console gaming revenue by 2015! Consoles sell more games cause that's the console business model meanwhile PC makes more ca$h cause the PC has a different business model for example monthly subscriptions for games and micro-transactions.
yea but for games that don't have monthly subs and micro trans who well do those other games fare is the graph you should be showing because otherwise to me in relation to this article etc is kinda irrelevant to include sub games.
carcan'tmack a proper PC game. xD
Quakecon should be interesting next year
Clarence said "PC is great and all but more and more developers are going with consoles. Games sell more on consoles" You should check to see if any of the things you repeat that you have heard other people say are true before running around like a parrot repeating them! pc makes more money than all consoles combined! That is a proven fact! link; http://www.gamespot.com/for... http://investor.ea.com/rele... http://www.extremetech.com/... now add all the hardware...., just gaming related hardware like High end gpu's, high spec ram, wild cases, lights, spec fans, liquid cooling and PC DESTROYS CONSOLES all combined even including ps2 and ds, 360, ps3, psp!!! One platform makes more money than the other 5!! --PC ! PC DOMINATES THE WORLD! only in america do you have the impression that the consoles are so important. If microsoft and sony and nintendo NEVER made another console, it would not even matter, huge games would still be made and BILLIONS would still be at stake every quater! Consoles are on the way out, they are ARCHAIC. You simply cannot have something tech related and hope to milk six years out of it. That is why right now the console games look so terrible compared to pc! Jaggies, pop-in, screen tear, sub-hd, performance between 15-30 frames per second sometimes worse....... Consoles may see on more generation, after that they will be gone, and only the fanboys will care, there is ZERO need for consoles! @kennyboy below- you are joking right?? This; http://www.youtube.com/watc... http://www.youtube.com/watc... http://www.youtube.com/watc... makes this; http://n4g.com/news/860145/... look last gen! Your next gen consoles (ps4 and xbox whatever when they FINALLY do come out will not even look as good as those videos I posted, you'll be lucky if they do games in 1080p with 4x anti alaising, the next gen consoles will be about on par with a 3 year old gaming pc if you get LUCKY!
look terrible compared to pc well i just watched the uncahrted 3 dessert gameplay and i cant say ive seen anything on pc anywhere near as cgish as that on pc but keep feeding yourself with your own fanism for your favorite platform if you want
As proof that PCs make more profit, Shadowwaste links an EA financial report that shows each console's net profits higher than PC, and a projection that PC profits will EVENTUALLY overtake consoles...
Am I missing something here. The EA reports you link to clearly show that console revenues dwarf those revenues from the PC. PC revenue per quarter - in millions 186 157 155 171 205 Consoles 522 378 717 768 698 It's not even close. You provided the links. How on earth do you think this is evidence that PC games make more money? And the other article plainly states that revenue from console games sits at about 23 billion while PC games were at 13 but jumped to 18 thanks to social games like Farmville. Did you even read your own links?
i have yet to see this 10 times power of pcs that 10 times power must really not come in the form of actual visuals
Cevat Yerli: "...If you were to have the same assets, but running on a PC that had a ten times faster GPU, you would get a ten times faster frame rate, but that’s not what you want. That’s not a visual improvement. When you start adding more complex shaders, then the power can be seen in the details. You get better lighting slightly and maybe smoother pixels, but for an average Joe – not for hardcore gamers – that image will not improve a lot. http://www.nowgamer.com/fea...
He has the game out its pay day im sure he doesnt care about the whingers.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen...
We have lost Crytek and now id to the consoles thank [email protected]#k we still have Dice and CD projekt red on our side.
We still have Valve, too.
Didn't Dice make Bad Company and Battlefield 1943 console exclusive?