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Why Forza 4 Doesn’t Feature Gran Turismo-Based Weather Effects & Night Racing

Some of of Gran Turismo 5′s greatest assets are its vibrant weather effects, as well as the stunning racing under the moonlight. Polyphony Digital’s PlayStation 3 exclusive’s Xbox 360 exclusive competitor, Turn 10′s Forza Motorsport 4, doesn’t feature weather effects nor night racing. However, the developer has explained the exclusion of both from the racer.

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smurfz2240d ago

These are features sorely missing from the title, but it isn't something which will reduce its greatness.

LOGICWINS2240d ago (Edited 2240d ago )

I respect your opinion. But I have to respectfully disagree. Forza 4 is a racing simulator, hence its meant to simulate real life racing correct? Do you know any professional racers who would willingly race in rainy/snowy weather unless he/she had to?

CernaML2240d ago

Errm... racing car drivers race in those conditions all the time... especially Formula One drivers. Then you have 24hr events which Gran Turismo 5 is able to perfectly simulate thanks to it's dynamic time of day cycles.

Plus, the snowy conditions are only featured in rally tracks in GT5 anyway... which rally drivers do race on as well. lol

Jdoki2240d ago (Edited 2240d ago )

LeMans 24hours and other endurance racing have to deal with night driving.

Ice racing - ex F1 world champ Alain Prost was very successful in that

Formula 1 races can occur in very wet and changeable conditions which makes for interesting strategy decisions. Also, some drivers are much better at dealing with those conditions (Jensen Button is a good example) Pretty much all European racing series (Touring Car, GT, GP2 etc etc) all deal with wet conditions.

Having weather effects is a good test of a driver. Just because Nascar, Indy etc stop the moment a drop of rain hits the track doesn't mean it shouldn't be included. Having variable weather conditions makes for a much more realistic and challenging game. If a game is a simulator, it should surely simulate all racing conditions.

I'm not knocking Forza, it looks like a great game, but I don't agree with your statement.

trouble_bubble2240d ago (Edited 2240d ago )

Logic *sigh* ...really?
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Damon Hill is in that race. FastForward to 3:15 and learn about unlimited wet weather tires changes. Why 27 people would agree on something they clearly don't understand, I'm not sure.

darthv722240d ago (Edited 2240d ago )

no doubt that is what the "real" race drivers do. I'm not a real race driver. I'm a game driver. Weather and time of day are neat options but they arent requirements.

It is certainly do-able but (for me) when playing a night course I feel there is such a loss of the detail and look of the game. Obviously because we are driving at night but when the game wants to present a feeling of going fast. You cant get the same feeling if its all dark or weathered around you.

I want to see crowds and buildings and obstacles whiz by at fast speed instead of rain or darkness. That is just me though.

ABizzel12240d ago

To me this sounds like, they didn't want to fund it, or they simply couldn't do it in that amount of time (which is surprising to me).

Anywho, Forza is still a great game without it. I like Forza a tad more than GT5, because Forza is a Sim-Arcade racer IMO, whereas, GT5 is full on Sim so I have more fun playing Forza, whereas GT5 I'm playing for a challenge.

SLLCKGT2240d ago (Edited 2240d ago )

"Do you know any professional racers who would willingly race in rainy/snowy weather unless he/she had to?"

Yeah. Ever heard of Michael Schumacher. Rain master?

zag2239d ago

I reckon they are using the flight sim X engine, there's no trees and the flight sim engine gives the same pictures you know extremely sharp pictures but the game will be extremely bare overall.

Do they have more than 3 cars on the track, I haven't seen a pic with more than 3 cars isn't that going down for cars on track?

Mnemonic-DK2239d ago

Yup! Schumi was known as "Der Rainmeister"!

Also Jean Alesi fun to watch driving sideways "Rally-style" in the wet and of course Ayrton Senna was a amazing under any track conditions.

FreydaWright2239d ago

Your logic doesn't win this time.

GoldenPheasant2239d ago

erm, Forza is not a simulator. *wishes he could bold the period*

Shadow Flare2239d ago

The Le mans 24 hour race. All in daytime. Definitive.

DaTruth2239d ago (Edited 2239d ago )

I'd rather have a choice! Less is never more! I might prefer driving in day with nice conditions, but one day when I played a million times in day with nice conditions, I might want to do something else!

Anybody arguing they prefer to have less is a serious fanboy; nobody prefers less!

Just stop! Please!

KMCROC2239d ago

So then where are the wear & tear of driving for long periods of time like knee issue ,neck issues ,aging of the player .

JokesOnYou2239d ago

Weather Effects in Forza4 would have been sweet, but its not a make or break feature and if I had to choose I'd gladly take what IS in Forza4 over whats in GT5.

BattleAxe2239d ago

^^^

Well it would seem that the jokes on you....

JokesOnYou2239d ago (Edited 2239d ago )

So you say, reading reviews seem to suggest quite different, but hey its a free country so you're welcome to believe whatever you like.

da_2pacalypse2239d ago

this site is pathetic... as soon as one article comes up comparing one exclusive to another, all the fanboys run in and troll each other...

JellyJelly2239d ago

I wish Forza 4 had those PS2 looking standard cars from GT5 as well. They look so 'simulatey' and 'real'.

kikizoo2239d ago

[email protected], forgetting that GT5 has better resolution, and more polygons used on premium cars (and more cars !)

poor fanboy.

lumley6662239d ago

'I respect your opinion. But I have to respectfully disagree. Forza 4 is a racing simulator' ?? urrm they may claim forza is a racing simulator but it just aint lol the driving phsics are more like need for speed then gran turismo

MaxXAttaxX2236d ago (Edited 2236d ago )

Ignoring the premium cars is what Forza fans do best.

And I wish GT5 used different car models in-game with lower LOD instead of the BS menu models made by a different company and permanent active steering on all cars like Forza.... oh wait, I don't!
LOL

+ Show (18) more repliesLast reply 2236d ago
Number_132240d ago

How can you sorely miss something you never had? These features are great extras, but they were clearly not enough to make the one game better than the other.

RioKing2239d ago

Depends on your definition of better. For some/ alot of people, those "extras" ARE enough to make one game better than the other.

lastdual2239d ago (Edited 2239d ago )

I agree, and Turn 10's explanation makes perfect sense given what they're going for. It all comes down to rendering headlights, which can mean a TON of light sources - more than either console can handle if done at full scale.

Take a look at how GT5 handles night racing:

http://youtu.be/j5r3lKX9CoU

GT5 gets around the problem by only rendering headlights for nearby cars and fading them out for cars that are farther away, thus keeping the number of light sources down. The headlights also cast minimal reflections and shadows.

Could Forza 4 have done something similar and just scaled back the lighting engine for night tracks? Probably, but it seems the devs have an all or nothing attitude when it comes to the lighting, which is fine.

Honestly, it's a tradeoff either way.

Perjoss2240d ago (Edited 2240d ago )

weather effects and night driving can be pretty to look at, but I'd rather play in daylight and on a dry track! the fastest lap times are always on dry tracks during the day too.

TKCMuzzer2240d ago

I'm sure every race driver would love to as well. But the point of racing is surely to adapt to what is around you and that includes the weather which can turn a decent driver into an average driver altering the way the race pans out.

I'm not saying it's essential but it does put a different spin on the track your on.

nix2240d ago (Edited 2240d ago )

Perjoss... let's just agree to the fact that Weather, Women and Wine are unpredictable, hmmm? q:

i would love to drive on a sunny day every time... but last time i checked we have 4 seasons of weathers.

@jazzking (below): schumacher used to win most of his races on a rainy day. he indeed was a king on wet tracks. think about that. next time.

Perjoss2240d ago

Weather effects are best suited to games where you drive mostly the same cars through the career (F1 or touring car games). Forza has 800 cars, it's hard to get used to so many cars, if you had to get used to that many cars also in rain it would be a bit overwhelming.

sikbeta2240d ago

Woah, none of you like to drive at night? I think is really cool, I loved the Last S-License Test in GT5, you have to drive a beast McLaren MP4 in Special Stage Route 5 at night, just awesome...

RioKing2239d ago (Edited 2239d ago )

"Forza has 800 cars, it's hard to get used to so many cars, if you had to get used to that many cars also in rain it would be a bit overwhelming."

And I'm sure you drive ALL 800 of those cars, right? :)
It sounds to me like someone doesn't like realism and...dare I say it....a challenge?

2239d ago
thereapersson2239d ago (Edited 2239d ago )

You present an excellent argument. If this game is supposed to surpass GT:5, wouldn't it have to match all the major features that GT:5 has plus many more improvements?

Forza diehards seem to think people only race in sunny weather, just like they seem to think that driving assists and race rewinds are simulation-based features.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 2239d ago
TKCMuzzer2240d ago

I think it does reduce it's greatness. Driving in the wet and driving at night completely alter your driving style and offer a different challenge even on familiar tracks.

I'm not sure how it can be a simulation if the conditions that actually effect the racing are not also simulated.

It's not essential but this is the fourth incarnation now and really should be included even if it was just an added option.

fr0sty2240d ago

Both weather and day/night cycles dramatically effect the challenges you face on a course, and do add a great dynamic to a game that calls itself a driving simulator. Some people do race at night or in bad weather. 24 hour endurance races, for instance, can feature both day/night cycle and unexpected weather changes. Just like some race on or off road... Different people enjoy different challenges. The game is by no means incomplete by not having it, but as a game meant to be direct competition to the game that does feature these things, it does in my opinion reduce it's value. If Turn 10 wants to spend so much time trash talking their competition or boasting about how superior their product is over their competition, they'd be wise to at least try to match it's features.

StanLee2240d ago (Edited 2240d ago )

Honestly, I'll take auto-vista, car clubs and other social aspects like painting, tuning and auctions over dynamic weather and day/night cycles. I'd rather focus on and enjoy the features Forza has rather than those it lacks. Because the last time the competition was actually better than Forza was 2001, 10 years ago. So obviously, they're doing something right.

Biggest2240d ago

So you would rather talk and hang out than race in more types of races. Why don't you just get The Sims and be done with it?

gamingdroid2240d ago

Metacritic says this game got a 93%

http://www.metacritic.com/s...

I think the critics have reached a consensus.

Kaneda2239d ago

@stanless

Does that mean Ricers play Forza and People love racing sports play GT5? :)

kikizoo2239d ago

93%...for a xbox exclusives (don't compare it to wii scores : lower standards, or ps3 scores : higher standard)

"Doesn’t Feature Gran Turismo-Based Weather Effects & Night Racing"

like 1080, etc the console just can't handle that, even if the game is good.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 2239d ago
WANNAGETHIGH2240d ago

The 360 can't handle GT5 power.

Marceles2240d ago

Blah...GT5 would've gotten killed if it didn't have weather change, yet Forza can exclude them and everyone is like "I don't care". Meh...

geddesmond2240d ago

Very very true and some of the gripes reviewers had with GT5 are absent in Forza 4s reviews even though they exist in forza 4s demo but hey thats what you get in this day and age. People love watching things on top fall even if they have to give them a little push. Don't believe me just look at COD and BF3. Cod is on top. COD is a great game. Yet people hate it so much they have gotten behind BF3 even though the beta was far from impressive

xtremeimport2240d ago

Sounds like he made a lot of excuses in that.
I like that he said they make relationships that other companies simply cant.

idk about you, but in the car world, I think PD would be able to make just about any relationship it wanted too.

whatever, its a feautre they dont have..just like GT doesnt have some features Forza does. who cares.

StraightPath2240d ago

Forza series shows that turn 10 has made the greatest sim of this whole generation , setting standards very high in so little time. With forza 4 scoring yet again a high metacritic which racers can not touch clearly not having weather effects will not reduce from its greatness.

byrnezy2240d ago

Greatest racer yes, greatest sim is a little hard to achieve when they have basicaly left half the simulation aspects out an also basicaly said it's a fun sim... in other words a arcade/sim

2239d ago
Gamer19822240d ago

It will reduce the games appeal slightly but its great in a way its not a clone of GT5 as thats not what people want. Basically night effect and rain do use system resources in some way so you gotta lower something. So instead of lowering say car details they decided to make cars look better than GT5 (they might not just proving a point here) and lose the effects. Every developer cuts corners to make there game great its a fact GT5 did it with the SD cars and few corners and Forza will with less features but in return they will have unique feature GT doesnt have so people don't say they are copying GT and vice versa.
It's great for owners of dual consoles who love both games and not for fanboys :)

byrnezy2240d ago

Couldn't agree more, love both games, I personaly prefer GT5 more than Forza 3 but who knows with Forza 4, but for the non fanboys that have the option, get both, simple as that.

ShadowJetX2239d ago

Can't I have both at the same time?

zeddy2240d ago

i hated night racing, couldnt see a thing!

BlmThug2239d ago

I was very dissapointed when finding out theres was no weather and night racing but then you have to understand Half arsed vs near perfection? Those features will be in Forza 5 for nextbox i guarantee you

bennyace2239d ago

Near perfection??? Not GT5 I hope! You call 80% recycled cars from prevouis GT games perfection! You and I have very different opinions of what near perfection is... Now all of a sudden the "weather effetcs" make or break the game... Looks like some people hang on to what they can to discredit a game...

ambientFLIER2237d ago

bennyace - He meant that FOrza 4 is near-perfection now and Turn 10 didn't want to half-ass the weather system.

otherZinc2239d ago

The Forza 4 demo has more damage than the entire GT5 game.

GT5 has so many efups, I dont see how someone could defend the features of that game. Forza out shines GT in every aspect of racing.

People need to get their head out their @ss & play Forza & stop assuming all this crap.

swinesucker2239d ago

Forza also has permanent assists that remain on. But continue....

Gamer30002239d ago

how can you call a game "a racing "simulator" "
when it can't simulat Weather Effects & Night Racing ???

ambientFLIER2237d ago

How can you call a game a "racing sim", when it can't simulate real damage and you can bump and grind your way to first place (GT5)?

Laypoof2239d ago

It's basically because Forza 4 pushed the 360 to its limits already. Adding those features would drastically reduce the FPS

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 2236d ago
jazzking20012240d ago (Edited 2240d ago )

weather is not such a big deal

eferreira2240d ago

in a racing game, it can change the whole dynamic of it. I think it shouldve been included

Number_132240d ago

Its absence doesn't seem to be missed an those that play the series and judging by the reviews, the critics aren't crushed either

Information Minister2240d ago (Edited 2240d ago )

Don't bring reviewers into the discussion. If anything, Forza 4 reviews are exposing the true extent of the media's double standards. I'll exemplify: a flawed damage system in GT5 is beyond forgiveness, but the same flaw in Forza isn't even worthy of being mentioned. GT5's lack of deep visual customization and community features like the ones in Forza are inexcusable, but the absence of weather, rally and night racing in Forza is A-OK!

And don't even get me started on the smear campaign against GT5 that was active in the last few weeks before launch, which included fake YouTube videos prominently featured in sites like Kotaku. That was disgusting.

EDIT @ DK286K:
Some reviewers criticized the progression of the damage system, you're right about that, but I distinctively remember reading a couple of reviews that stated there was NO damage in GT5 whatsoever. That only shows that some reviewers barely touched the game before issuing a score, because there has been full damage in arcade mode since day 1.

2240d ago
XabiDaChosenOne2240d ago

@DK286k "I've never seen a smear campaign like the one happening on N4G against Forza 4." Than you obviously had no internet connection when GT5 came out.

Information Minister2240d ago

"I've never seen a smear campaign like the one happening on N4G against Forza 4. People are creating new accounts daily for the sole purpose of smearing Forza."

You must be new here. Duplicate accounts created by trolls for trolling purposes are as old as the site itself. And it used to be much worse! Remember the idiot who created several accounts to post spoilers in Heavy Rain articles? You should have seen the Open Zone when Halo 3 and MGS4 launched!

The comments being deleted in Forza articles come from fanboys in both camps, as it can be seen in http://n4g.com/news/860023/... .

And if you want to believe that the gaming media is the last stronghold of honesty, above and beyond all other forms of media in the sense that it cannot be influenced or swayed by whoever offers the largest advertising budget, if you don't want to believe in bias or double standards, then knock yourself out... Just don't expect people with a more questioning nature to share that point of view.

morganfell2240d ago Show
sikbeta2240d ago

And guys, don't forget those douches that PM you to spoil the end of a game, 2 times for me, one for Heavy Rain and another for Infamous, lame, just lame...

O-T

Of course no one is going to die because the game doesn't have that feature, but don't try to deny it, wheater conditions + time change (day to night transition) are great and give more immersion or sense of realism to the game...

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 2240d ago
Why o why2240d ago

haven't you heard, custom rims and paint jobs are now more important in a racing sim than weather effects and real time light. No axe to grind but this gen has a lot of things backwards. It also seems that things 'yours' doesn't have are considered unimportant whilst the things 'they' don't have are. goes both ways.

I suppose if the gamers are enjoying forza its all that matters because that's win but this gens media and fans have really shown some inconsistencies. honestly how can these extra things overlooked western media.. all in good fun though cause I know people playing this on my list couldn't give two hoots to what I'm saying....they gaming

JokesOnYou2239d ago (Edited 2239d ago )

Well who says weather is not missed in Forza4? I've seen reviews in fact say they were dissapointed, as Iam that it lacks weather effects, therefore the only assumption we can make based off ALL the reviews is that #1. Forza4 excel's at what it does have in the game and #2. Weather effects although may be welcome feature are obviously not an important feature. I mean why would it be now, what because that's what GT5 did? NO, the reality is GT5 had it, but obviously it wasn't enough to overcome its other shortcomings. Who knows maybe had Turn 10 decided to implement it, they MIGHT have compromised something else and suffered a similar fate like GT5 which means we'd have 2 games with weather that aren't as good as they could have been. I mean F1 2010 is said "the most complicated weather system ever seen in a racing game", does that make it better than GT5 or Forza4?, obviously not.
FACT is reviews suggest Forza4 is a better game than GT5 even without weather effects. Now with that said, like I said before only a fanboy would really argue "OMG theres huge gap in quality" basicly all this amounts to is whether you like apple jellybeans or cherry jellybeans, they're both pretty damm good, unfortunately the jellybean critics will ultimately deem apple or cherry better and piss off one group of jellybean lovers....but by all means enJOY YOUR favorite jellybean, whatever flavor that might be. lol

Why o why2239d ago (Edited 2239d ago )

Hmmmm jellybeans. Of course you know im generalising here, i do remember some reviews knocking gt for not having non sim like things forza had like they were bid deals. Conversely there will indeed be some forza reviews that question the lack of the features only a few admit they would relly like you you just have, kinda. Gt just as more driving types from carting to nascar and that may not be the be all an end all which your f1 weather point convayed nicely but if forza did have these im sure our western media would be swinging from the fluoescent lights in their offices whilst skeeting on the faces of their collegues below. Not going into how these things are reflected in the review scores on this one so ill just leave you with one great quote....'too much variety'. Keep enjoying the game as thats far more important and despite what people may nit pick about its STILL about games. Thats the thing to celebrate. No game is perfect and we should enjoy the good to great ones whenever we can....the more the better.

bennyace2239d ago

Of course it's not a big deal... Nobody was asking for weather effects in previous GT games and now it almost the most important feature!?!?

Like kart racing and nascar. When it was announced they had those races in GT5 it was the greatest idea in recent gaming history. Who cares that game is almost recycled in and we got 20% new stuff and scored the lowest of the whole GT series... It has wheather effects! WOW!

GT3 didn't have weather effects and, to me, it's still the best in the series...