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Toshiba Hocks Inferior Technology In Format War

As the high definition DVD format war drags on, Toshiba and Sony are continuing to tweak their marketing campaigns in an effort to gain the upper hand for their respective formats. Toshiba is claiming that its HD-DVD format is gaining widespread favor in the overall market.
The high level of competition between these two companies has led to a sort of desperation that can be seen in their marketing campaigns in the form of posturing and making claims of success while taking actions that are indicative of acceptance of a certain level of failure. Toshiba is the party that's guilty of most of this behavior.

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Yo Mama3346d ago (Edited 3346d ago )

This guy speaks what all hd-dvd supporters already know but are just too stubborn to admit.

The Brave 13346d ago

The format war has gone on because of the man u see in the picture.Everyone knows Blu is best.I cant wait to see Bill's face when its all said and done.Blu-ray all the way!

marinelife93346d ago

Poor Larry Dixon (the author of the article). He is going to get his site hacked.

drewdrakes3346d ago (Edited 3346d ago )

Really? "Blu-ray also has a technological edge over HD-DVD in many ways." Name 1 other then disc space, which is apparently a "technological" advantage.

Edit: bootsielon- this doesnt call for name calling. And adding more space isnt technology. It doesnt change how the core technology works. Even so, 51GB HD DVD's have been approved, so that should be null and void. And to bring up your point of 'Seriously, how many times do you watch "extra content"?' Then why would we need the extra space? An HD movie can fit comfortably on a 30GB disc without all the extra content ;) (1080p, high def audio and all)

Edit 2: bootsielon- I respect your opinion and i believe in digital distribution as well. My internet is fast enough ;)

blackmagic3346d ago (Edited 3346d ago )

This article is horribly full of inacuracies.

He points out Toshiba lowering sales estimates but fails to mention the ps3 hasn't exactly performed as promised either.

He goes on about how Blu-ray has so many more titles but as of this weeks release schedule, its 338 titles to 365 titles. 27 titles is hardly 'a lot more'! It's not even a 10% lead!

Then he goes on to say that HD DVD has 15gb and Blu-ray has 25gb ON EACH SIDE to make 30 and 50 GB!

Man, for a site called New Technology TV he talks like he just walked into a best buy for the first time today, walked up to a 18 year old sales guy wearing a 'Blu-ray rocks' t-shirt and regurgitated everything he told him!

Now what really URKS my chain is that anything posted on this site that has even the most remote ring of negativity against blu-ray is greeted with a wall of 'this isn't gaming news' and 'quit posting format war articles on a gaming site' even when posted in the tech or industry section. BUT when it's a pro Blu-ray article, it gets thrown in the PS3 and 360 tabs! Edit: Story has been removed from ps3 and 360 tabs. Thank you!

Edit: To be fair, he points out that Blu-ray is leading in sales and that is true, about 1.8:1 YTD. He also points out that Toshiba ignores the PS3. I agree that this area is full of shady practices on both sides. If you are going to talk attach rate you need to talk install base. ALSO, if you are going to talk sales lead, you need to talk attach rate. The ps3 and 360 add-on should be included in all numbers discussed. Now, let the disagrees pile up because I am not pro Blu-ray and that somehow means I am against the PS3.

bootsielon3346d ago (Edited 3346d ago )

"Really? "Blu-ray also has a technological edge over HD-DVD in many ways." Name 1 other then disc space, which is apparently a "technological" advantage. "

Isn't that the point of a new STORAGE MEDIUM, IDIOT? Everything else, like region encoding (or lack thereof), extra anti-piracy security, and "interactive features" such as iHD or BDJava is a gimmick. Seriously, how many times do you watch "extra content"? Why would I want "interactivity" out of movies when I have superior forms of interactivity with games? The only reason I care about HD movies is superior video and audio quality; if you don't have the space, you can't really fit both, can you dipsh1t? Transformers couldn't be made with 7.1 audio thanks to inferior technology; so much for "iHD". And, if you think that Blu-ray is anti-consumer, then so is HD-DVD. You can pretty much override any security on these discs by now.

Toshiba could have just pulled a Wii, meaning DVD with a different staple and you morons would still defend it because it's not backed by Sony. Hell, even if data can be compressed to fit on a DVD in HD quality, I do care for a next-gen format because I want extra storage space to burn my files on, AND I also want extra content on discs. Proof that it WILL happen is that there will actually be 3 sci-fi movies in one disc, only possible with blu-ray.

Edit:

Sorry drewsdrake, you're right, names weren't called for. Anyway, the extra space should be used for higher bitrates and sound, for putting entire trilogies in a single disc, and TV seasons (if not series) on a single disc. THAT is the purpose for extra space. Not extra content.

Anyway... obviously content on demand would be superior if it has everything both BD and HD-DVD have to offer and more. However, internet is too slow and on-demand services have yet to be consolidated the way movie rentals did.

Edit 2:

To jaja,

First you criticize my insults towards drewdrakes. Fair enough, those weren't called for. But then, you say I lack the intelligence and the ability to make a decent argument. All while you say:

"It does not matter how much better something is if its computation is a lot cheaper"

It doesn't matter how much better something is if it's computation is cheaper? What do you mean by computation, exactly? Do you even know what that means? Nice "argument", smartass. I'll make you a favor and address your supposed "cost" argument, which will be rendered null.

HD-DVD is NOT cheaper than Blu-ray. HD-DVD discs have consistenly been more expensive on the movie front (go to www.thedvdwars.com). HD-DVD recordable discs are significantly more expensive per gigabyte than Blu-ray; I say per gigabyte because that's the point of getting a new format for recording.

Furthermore, TDK and Verbatim have developed new ways to make Blu-ray discs by developing an organic die that can be used in former CD and DVD facilities; so no longer do you need new equipment to make Blu-ray discs.

The only thing that would be needed is for the players to be cheaper to make. However, if that was really true, you'd see manufacturers other than Toshiba and MSFT jump in the HD-DVD bandwagon; they have not.

Blu-ray makes a lot of profit on each player, while HD-DVD makes a huge loss. Costs of laser heads have gone down from 125, to 80 bucks, down to 8 dollars since last year. Therefore, there is no incentive to make HD-DVD players over Blu-ray players. The incentive for manufacturers to go with Blu-ray is that they can price it higher, while PS3 paves the way for the format.

HD-DVD support makes no business sense to Panasonic, Samsung and all other consumer electronics businesses because it is MORE COSTLY FOR THEM. Blu-ray will very soon reach HD-DVD prices. Your argument would hold some weight if HD players were actually needed RIGHT NOW, just like the energy sources you mention. However, HD technology is a luxury, not a necessity. Therefore, your entire argument is void.

Now THAT is how you make an argument. "Computation" my ass.

jaja14343346d ago

^^^^

Dude you really need to calm down a bit. Also random name calling just makes you look and sound childish which pretty much undermines anything you have to say. This is something you really should have learned by 8th grade.

And last time I check at the moment HD is the larger of the 2 disc. Though with will probably change sometime next year. So basically your entire rant is so that you can backup for entire computer with 6 or 7 disc. Fair enough. But...

For some odd reason you ignore price. Why does every damm BR support ignore price? All each and every one of them says is the whole "superior tech" line. Know what? Coal, Wind, Nuclear, Tidal > Oil and Natural Gas. What to know what we don't use more of the latter? Cost. Simple simply cost. It does not matter how much better something is if its computation is a lot cheaper. Are you driving/old enough to drive a Fuel Cell car? Because their available and are better than internal combustion.

So when you grow up into an adult and go into the world maybe you can rant and rave and then throw your money about with little regard to cost, but until then let the grown ups decide.

ps Don't bother responding as your first post shows how little intelligence you have, and as such your lack of the ability to formulate a decent argument.

Cheers mate.

gololo3346d ago

@blackmagic
"He points out Toshiba lowering sales estimates but fails to mention the ps3 hasn't exactly performed as promised either."
The point of the article is not the PS3....and whether it has performed or not is another question, however, he does say that the PS3 is one of the cheapest Blue Ray players...so dude read, think and write...also, you can't deny that the PS3 is a great deal...I love movies and video games, and I got my PS3 for that, just like my PS2 was one of my first DVD players, the PS3 is my first BR player...so for $399 u can get an excellent video game console (don't say that it doesnt have good games cuz you'd be lying) and a blue ray player...

blackmagic3346d ago (Edited 3346d ago )

I did think about my comment and I stand by my viewpoint. The 'author' tries to portray a certain scenario which does not exist.

He portrays Toshiba lowering sales expectations due to lack of titles, inferior technology and lack of demand while the PS3 is in short supply and player manufacturers are gearing up player production due to high demand, high technology and a breadth of title selection.

Let us tackle these one at a time.

Titles:
338 HD DVD
365 Blu-ray
That's less than an 8% lead. Hardly the wide extra selection in titles that he portrays in his 'article'.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2...

Technology:
Okay, physically neither format is particularly advanced. Both use the exact same principle found in 20+ year old CDs. A spiraling line of bumps on a platter read by a laser. Both use a shorter wavelength blue laser so the bumps are smaller and the spiral tighter the difference being that for Blu-ray the bumps are closer to the surface so you can pack them more densely and HD DVD the bumps are at the same depth as DVD so they can leverage the existing DVD infrastructure and manufacturing techniques.

Software wise, HD DVD is significantly more advanced. It uses Thomson's Film Grain Technology for better video compression and support for DD+ and DD TrueHD are mandatory instead of optional. (Using these HD DVD has been able to produce the same quality while using less space) And since we are talking titles, I'll point out that about 55% of Blu-rays are only 25GB and about 30% use a DD stream as primary audio (max 640kb/s). 90% of HD DVDs use a DD+ stream for audio (max 3000 kb/s).
http://www.blu-raystats.com...
http://www.hddvdstats.com/i...

Hardware wise, HD DVD has had mandatory support of network connectability, PIP and local storage since the beginning. Right now there are only 2 blu-ray players (and PS3) capable of PIP and local storage but we are waiting on titles that use it. There is no timeline on when network connectivity will be available (bd-live not the ability to do firmware updates through ethernet)

Sales/demand:
For standalone install base only HD DVD outnumbers Blu-ray by almost 2-1 but including the PS3 and 360 add-on, the install base for Blu-ray exceeds that for HD DVD by 10-1, plain and simple. The fact that the Neilson ratio for title sales are 1.8 to 1 YTD tends to strongly support the notion that the majority of PS3 owners don't use their console for movies however. Keep in mind also that back in March the Nielson YTD ratio for title sales was 2.4 to 1 and has been steadily shifting in favour of HD DVD since, despite the overwhelming sales lead generated by the PS3. This suggests that people buying the PS3 at lower price points are even less likely to use it as a blu-ray player possibly because they are less tech savy or on more of a budget.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs...

btw, just so we are clear, I am pro HD DVD not anti PS3. There is a difference. Also, I own both a HD DVD player and Blu-ray player because I am a realist. I am pro HD DVD but I don't think that Blu-ray will die. I believe that dual format players will be affordable long before the format war will end effectively making the war meaningless similar to the DVD-R/DVD+R war.

godofthunder103345d ago

he's full of sh*t,how in the hell is hd-dvd Inferior Technology compare to br.hell he doesn't even know what the hell he's talking about,they both plays 1080p,have same sound but it's hd-dvd that has more extras in it .
the only difference between the 2 is br use to hold more information then hd-dvd but not any more because now they are releasing a new hd-dvd that hold 51gb and people want have to buy a new player because Toshiba already confirmed that the older players will work with the 51 gb disc,but people that own br players will have to buy a new one when sony upgrade their this year and sony confirmed it.
he talks about how most of the movie companies are behind br and that's not true sony only have about 1 or 2 more companies then Toshiba that's exclusive.
disney voted for Toshiba to make the 51gb disc and even br (ps3 fans)fans have to admit that disney is playing both of them.first disney said that they are all for br but they let microsoft sell their movies on the 360,and now they voted to let Toshiba to make 51gb disc even when sony was trying to stop it.i've read a lot of people posts and i can't belive how some people think that disney is loyal to sony and will stay with them no matter what.the truth is that disney doesn't give a sh*t about sony,if they did then they wouldn't voted yes when sony was trying to get people to vote no like they did and the only reason that they went exclusive with br to begin with is because it had more space but now hd-dvd have the same amount of space as br and 51gb is more then enough for movies.i also read where br fans said that br will have a 200gb disc so disney will still stay with them,hell disney doesn't care about a 200gb disc because 51gb is way more then enough for movies and disney knows it.the 200gb is only good for holding information and it will be perfect for buisneses but way to much for movies and it will cost more and the extra space will never be used in movies. disney will just lose money using the 200gb disc.
he could say what the hell he wants but he's dead wrong to when he said that Toshiba isn't selling their players,i like to know where he was the last 2 weeks because they soldout every where that their players was on sale and just yesterday i was at besy buy and i've seen 3 people buying the $400 hd dvd players with the 2 free movies in it and it was stacked on side of a stack of br players in the middle of the floor and they were out selling the br players big time and they were the same price.
the reason that disney voted yes in Toshiba favor and against sony is because disney is out to make money not to help sony like some people are claiming.disney seen how the stand alone dvd players are out selling brs stand alone players and i bet that some time next year maybe at the end i don't know but disney will start making hd dvds to because disney is looking out for their selfs and i don't blame them.it will be cheaper for disney to make hd dvds and they know it and that means a bigger profit for them.
he even complained that they don't count the ps3 for br sells,hell how bias is this guy,people that buy the ps3 want a game system not a dvd player and they even said that the majority of people don't even use the ps3 to watch movies even when sony forced br on the consumers before it was even ready just so they wouldn't get to far behind Toshiba,sony did the same damn thing that microsoft did with the 360 when they released br when it wasn't ready but why is it i don't hear the sony fanboys critize br like they did the 360 because it was released early,oh!i forgot it's owned by sony and sony never do anything wrong according to them and now all the people that bought stand alone players for $600 and up will just have to buy a new one next year when sony upgrade br to do the same damn thing that hd dvds are doing already and sony confirmed this their self but when Toshiba released hd-dvds they were finished with it.
if Toshiba would've released hd dvds with out them being the finished product and then upgrade them later and make the people buy another hd dvd player because the one that they bought less then a year later want work on the new disc then all the sony fans would be saying that they are just like microsoft they do that all the time just so they could make more money but since it's sony that's doing it we don't hear anything about it but they still want to act as if sony never screwed the people before.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 3345d ago
romaink3346d ago

why is this article so one-sided and biased?

Darkiewonder3346d ago

To Blu-ray Lacked features HD-DVD already had [Earlier Article here some time ago]

IT was bound to happen.

Kholinar3346d ago

It's a little bit confusing as an article.

First it goes on about sales numbers, which was generally pretty accurate. Then we talk about toshiba's reduction in shipments of standalones and br's standalone increase. However, in standalones, HDdvd beats blu-ray handily, even without the 360 drive. So a decrease is not indicative of the assertions made. Then they imply that people all over have experience frustration finding a ps3? Then we get to the crux of the article, features, and we mention disk space and end the article...

I'm more than willing to admit that br's kicking tail, but this is a sad article...

razer3346d ago (Edited 3346d ago )

Did he buy out Toshiba? No, this is some stupid attempt at bringing the 360 into this losing HiDef format war. It was Sony who shoved BR down it's gamers throats NOT MS.

I guess if you get your azz kicked in the gaming arena it's time for the Sony fanboys to try and make it a movie war now.

Hocking an inferior technology? last time I checked HD-DVD has more features and the only thing BR touts over HD-DVD is disc space. Still no matter, I'm not buying either.

BigBoy20003346d ago

If you don't plan on getting one, then why the hell did you comment in the first place?! Leave the big boy talk to people who actually embrace the finer things in life!

athlon7703346d ago

This has nothing to do with dragging the 360 anywhere. Microsoft backs the HD-DVD side. And Sony did not force anything down our throats, this generation of games are pushing the boundries of the DVD9 format, and Sony smartly choose to include the BD player in the PS3. Dont get all upset that MS has such a strangle hold on the format that you can not even use the add on HD-DVD player to support game discs. Not that at this point it will ever happen since any game designer that would make use of the extra storage in the HD-DVD would alienate 9mil owners of the 360.

Besides Razer, did Toshiba NOT drop last years junk (A2) onto customers? Do you deny them doing this? Think about your response because that is exactly what they did. Problem is, most of the comsumers that bought the A2 did not know it was a discontinued product when they bought it.

spammy_nooo3346d ago

****In reply to your statement that Sony shoved blu ray down gamers throats****

So what, you don't want better technology? The ps3 has at LEAST a small advantage game-wise because of BR and only costs a tad bit more than a 360(the good one, anyways). Did I mention it could play HD movies???

The point is, BR is just as useful as DVD was in the ps2 era. It's not like you HAVE to buy a ps3 either.... If you don't like the fact that you are getting a great deal on a HD game console with a State-Of-The-Art processor that can also play blu ray movies, then don't buy a ps3.

There are cheeseburgers, and then there are double cheeseburgers. If you choose to get the regular cheeseburger then good for you, you know what you want. But if you choose to get the slightly more expensive double cheeseburger with more meat(features), its not the restaurant that shoved it down your throat, it was you that decided you wanted a double cheeseburger, with the extra patty.

Rooftrellen3345d ago

"****In reply to your statement that Sony shoved blu ray down gamers throats****

So what, you don't want better technology?"

I just want to make sure here, then. Last gen, you had an Xbox, but not a PS2, correct? I just want to make sure you're not a Sony fanboy spewing propaganda now, when, last generation of gaming, you were happy with your Sony made PS2, which was by far the weakest console.

Heck, I'll even accept it if you had a Gamecube (it was still pretty powerful).

Also, the generation before, you didn't have a PS1, correct?

I'm just making sure you're talking about the PS3 because it has the best technology, not because you're a fanboy, because only a fanboy would talk about the best technology, shun everything else, and have the weakest console 2 generations in a row.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3345d ago
Shaka2K63346d ago

As time goes by, Blu-ray keeps getting stronger and stronger just go to any retail like Target or Best Buy check out the HD section 75% is Blu.

crank3346d ago

Yes, the only thing is disc space, and we are talking about eh..................... er............... discs for storing data.

Ummmmmm, argument over.

mark093346d ago

@ whoever said
"the onlything thats better about blu-ray is the diskspace"

Thats the only thing that matters...

blackmagic3346d ago

I think we are talking about a medium for delivering film. If HD DVD didn't accomplish that at the same quality level then I'd say you have something.

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