"When asked about the 8 GB install on the PS3 and why RAGE decided to go with it, Willits said, praising Sony for their developer friendly views"
Hope it pays off. I don't want to see sub-HD resolution, screen tearing, or any other annoying faults that third-parties look over on PS3.
There is the carnival games footage on the PS Blog. It looks great and is running at a solid 60 frames. The PS3 version is a great choice. It has the manditory install, but id said it will run better than the 360 uninstalled. For the 360 to run like the PS3, it will require a full install of each disc, which requires ether installing both or having to install disc 1, unionstalling as you move to disc 2, and then installing disc 3 just to play the MP at it's best. So as much as the 360 got love from RAGE, the PS3 seems to be getting the most convient console set up. And it looks great on PS3 too. Sony and id put together a winner here. I think id deserves the praise like Valve got, for putting the time in to make the PS3 version phenomenal.
8 gig installs, full disc installs...am I the only one here that can see HDD installs are the way to go? DVD is too small for some of todays games and BR is too slow for others. -Death
@Death Its not blu ray thats to slow just the slow drive in the PS3.Bluray is actually able to be quite fast.So expect a 12x BD next gen to be plenty fast enough.
even in the ps3, the relatively slwo player, is faster to stream anything than the dvd player of the others consoles, so...stop talking about that ridiculous point. [email protected] mandatory install argument, and others lies "ps3 guys spend 45 min installing" LOL, it's 5 minutes or less most of the time...and loading times are = to xbox (where install are also mandatory and larger : with smaller hdd !, if you want to kill the ugly noise from the dvd access)
I have a 250 gig hardrive, I have no problem installing all 3 discs and getting the better experience on the xbox 360
It's not just BluRay that's too slow. Optical drives in general are too slow for games, and they present significant bottlenecks. In a game textures have to be loaded in a fraction of a second for the best quality. An optical drive comes no where near the speed required for loading the textures in the required amount of time. They work around it by allowing textures to be delayed, e.g. popup. Installing a game dramatically decreases popup, simply because a hard drive, though (too) slow still, is a couple of orders magnitude faster than an optical drive. The problem is particularly serious in a game like Rage, as the size of textures is a few times bigger than the average game. To load that much data from an optical drive is very slow, so the game becomes much more memory intensive as the developer will try to keep as much data as possible in the main memory. There are ways to get around it, but expect very significant popup.
I think console gamers should embrace the install. Especially if that little bit of time it takes to install means a better end product and faster load times.
Those negatives plague both HD consoles from time to time. OT: Can't wait! I've wanted this since it was first unveiled years ago! Something tells me the wait was worth it!
well it better be the better version then...
Does one have to be better to be fun? -Death
no, but if you have the opportunity to buy either, you will obviously want the superior version
Actually yes one has to be better.The systems are not equal so the games shouldn't be equal.PC gamers don't want their version equal to consoles.The more powerful console should always be the better of the two or the developers look bad.
Who said that at all Death? All im saying is taht if you are going to do something like this you sure better make sure it is the better version.
Sony shouldn't have any say so, If the Dev Company needs 15gb to make there game run right it should be a given..
Then the devs should have their own platform to have that type of control.
@yesmynameissumo Like a PC? I don't like PC gaming in the slightest, but i do agree that on both the 360 and the ps3, developers should have 100% control of their games as long as it doesn't interfere with security. But thats the thing. If the devs required a 15GB install, I'm sure Sony wouldn't say no (well maybe. That would be huge haha). Sales of the game would be pretty low though. Then again, theres clearly ways around it. Installing individual chapters seemed to work fine for MGS4.
Like a PC, which is what the game was mainly done on lol. Console users should be glad they even got this game. I'll be getting it on PC myself. Sony is known for letting devs have leeway in doing things the way they wanna do them, which is great. The PS3 and PSP became open platforms.
It's Sony's platform. There are certain restrictions that apply, so that not every game that releases requires a 15gb install, as that would decrease potential game sales, as people would only be able to play 4 different games at a time with a 60 GB console. There have to be rules to promote equality and sales of a platform.
The waiting is the hardest part
Very interesting input.
It's nice how often Sony get praised by developers for their friendly and helpful work ethic
sorry but 8gb? 4 is something i can understand but 8gb is basically half a game in most cases. If they needed it i can understand but i have my doubts that they need all that space versus the fact that its probably easier to just install it rather than optimize for the ps3
The only reason I can think of is that the Blu Ray drive reads slow, only at 2x compared to the DVD's 12x. That means that in order to get the game to read fast, they need to install 8gb of data that is used the most in the game. The other stuff on the disc that is not installed would be stuff that is not used as often and can be read at a slower speed. Otherwise, they would have to put the same data over and over and over again onto the Blu Ray disc and may even need a dual layer disc to fit all of the extra data. This saves them from having to do that. I could be wrong, but that is my best guess. Hope that helps.
the slower disc read speed of blu ray is definetly the reason however i think you can combat that with better streaming texture technology. if a game like uncharted can look that great without install of any kind and a great looking sandbox game like infamous 2 only has a 2.5gb install there is no reason rage need an 8gb install. I know carmak, lead programmer for the id engine, likes to talk about megatextures which is basically massive textures with high resolution. this type of approach is fine on PC's was plentiful harddrive space and RAM but that won't work on the PS3. My point games like uncharted and infamous now this and find way around it to help eliminate or lessen HD installs. if id optimized rage and it's engine more there is no reason they can't decrease that install atleast by a bit
@ ballsofsteel Are you serious now! None of those games run at 60 fps and when they do then you have something to argue about.
@ballsofsteel. I addressed your point in my previous post. The way those games get around no install, small install is that they put the most used data on the discs over and over and over again. Not all the data on the disc is unique. A lot of it is used quite a bit during the game, say nathan drakes textures on himself would be used a lot. Nathan Drakes textures are probably put on the disc multiple times, throughout the disc so that it loads fast and doesn't have to go all the way back to the start of the disc to read it. Just my 2 cents.
@FragMnTagM 2x for Bluray is equal to 8x dvd.Except that Dvd speed is not constant.So for example 12xDVD drive reads at 12x at the outer part of the first layer then reads slower as it moves towards the center.An even slower on the second layer.While the Bluray is constant doesn't slow down even on the second layer.The truth is they are near equal if the game actually uses the full DvD.
@Dark_King, I have read up on that, and it seems you are right. However, the seek time is what kills it as there is so much more data on the disc. I think that is why it takes longer for games to load on the PS3. Not much longer, we are talking seconds here. But there is simply more data to read as a lot of stuff is uncompressed, especially audio in the games. Thanks for being mature about the discussion. I appreciate having intelligent, and thoughtful discussions on here instead of the usual trolling and flame wars.
Yea the seek time is pretty slow its the one fault in the PS3 BD drive.Higher speed drives will fix the issue but for now they just need to repeat the data multiple times on the disc.This way it can be found much quicker.However having the HDD means you can put that data their and not have to repeat it at all.An it is faster to access then having to use the repeating method. Now my main reason for wanting the PS3 version is simple.1 scratch resistant BD or 3 scratch prone DVDs.I am horrible at taking care of disc.
@Frag, you're mixing up measurements. 2x on DVD is not the same as 2x on BluRay. The charts I attached shows what I mean. In fact, 2x BluRay turns out to be just as fast as 12x DVD. The reason they install 8 Gigabytes on PS3 and not on Xbox360 is not because of BluRay read speed compared to DVDs. It's because Sony's platform is consistent, every PS3 has a hard drive. Developers can take this as an advantage, and provide a mandatory install to copy the textures to the hard drive. Yes, those 8Gigabytes are all textures, and that's why they can't just be read from an optical drive, not without significant popup anyway, as the drives are simply too slow.
there's some serious texture streaming issues, though. http://file.ruliweb.com/mpe...
it's off-screen, PS3 gameplay footage from TGS.
Yay! 2 yrs of anticipation will finally come to an end in 9 days :D common Amazon!
Man will people grow up. Waiting 10 or 20 minutes to install/patch a game is nothing. Especially when you waited months for a game to to get released. I guess none of you guys ever had to type 10 pages of code 20 years ago just so you could play pool on your Comador 64. I'll gladly take an 8GB install over numerous disk swaps the 360 version is going to have. What ever will I do while my game installs. Do none of you complainers have other responsabilities that yous could do while the game takes 10 minutes to install. Like clean up the crusty socks that feel under your bed.
Not to show my age, but that was closer to 30 years ago. -Death
Just like how disc swapping is no big deal at all. If its a reason to pull you away from a reasonong then i feel sorry for you
I know disk swapping is no big deal. I didn't say it was. Just like installing and patching games is no big deal either
At first I was like " I agree," and then I was like "wow, that just got mean."
You guys are some of the laziest impatient folks ever. Get off your ass and change the damn disk or go and make a damn sandwich while the game installs. Its not that hard!
Have you ever had that "not so fresh" feeling?
holy crap dude, 8 gb is no joke. i give gt5 a pass for it, but for this....it's going to take some extreme house cleaning.
i dont care too much i got 500 gigs on my ps3 as long as the game runs the way its supposed to the am okay with it
8GB is no problem and will soon become the norm into next generation. I just surf the net on my iPad while I wait. Like other said above, people have been waiting for months for this game and an extra 10 - 20 minutes makes a difference how? I feel sorry for Gamers that have a problem with this. Really, is your life so pathetic you have absolutely nothing else to do. Pity really ...
the Install is for the best. Gamers who are ignorant by default see install as "bad", "evil" or "hardware fault". Even on the 'superior' PC installs are required.
You just said it best! The ignorance of Gamers these days is completely mind blowing.
I wonder what these people whining about 8 GBs would think if they tried to install Star Craft II. That was something else with all the updates and patches. It was well worth it though because it's a terrific game.
If you can install this game...do it..it will run better. There is a reason ALL PC games are installed on the HDD or SSD. Would even be better if you could install the entire game on the PS3 as you have a choice of what HDD you can own and its size. Now that would have been an extra bonus for PS3 users if you could install the entire game to the PS3 HDD.
Give it an edge as an out of the box experience in loading performance sure. A total edge over the 360 version NO! Having to wait for 20+ minutes untill an installation finishes is wasted time and people would rather swap a disc for 10 seconds. Plus, while it has been seen countless times that load times with a mandatory install on the PS3 are marginally faster than loading off the disc on the 360, once you do the optional install on the Xbox 360 the performance is once again in favor of the 360 version. Going by John Carmack’s keynote I don’t see the PS3 version being the better one on consoles. It’ll be the 360 version and the PC version will take the crown anyway.
its a shame ps3 only has the first gen of 2x bluray drives, ps4 with the 12x bluray drive will lessen the need for mandatory installs if not get rid of it completely considering x8 DVD drive on the 360 doesnt need mandatory installs
Are x12 blurays, or x8 DVDs going to allow the console to read data faster than if it were on it's HDD? Why must we get rid of installs? IMO installs are great. The console can pull data quicker, run quieter, and simply not be reading compressed files from a disc in realtime while I play. I wish Xbox360 had a mandatory install, and PS3 had a full-install option.
to answer your first question yes, since content is being pulled from both the disc and hdd it is much faster then pulling content from a single source. The 2x bluray drive is bottle necking the possible amount of data it can pull then it would have with a 12x drive.
@Phunny: Hard Drive transfer rate: 1030 Mbits/sec 12x BluRay transfer rate: 425 Mbit/sec Hard Drives are still significantly faster, and pulling data from 2 different devices doesn't necessarily make it faster. In fact, throughput would still be lower if half the textures would be on blu ray and the other half on the hard drive. Hard Drives are always going to be faster than optical drives. The only way to go faster is to use flash drives.
What are you smoking and where can I get some?
The only reason why the 360 doesn't require mandatory installs is simply because not all 360s have an HDD. If every 360 did have one, you can bet your ass that developers would take advantage of that and require the user to install their game (unless Microsoft didn't allow them to). John Carmack even stated that he wished every 360 had an HDD to take advantage of such a feature. The 2x blu ray is fine. There are many games out there that don't require an installation and can still load just as fast or even faster than the 360 version. The developers just need good streaming tech and RAM management.
But if you play a game on xbox with an optional install it will play and load much faster then it would from ps3 with install
Uhhh? Not sure how that's related to my response.
yea i dnt mind the install if it makes everything move smoother and faster i like how the game is looking and im gonna get it i rather one disk over 3 anyway
I am an avid console-only gamer. And I am choosing Xbox360 (for this specific title) because of the larger install option. Why are some fans upset at 8gb? Had it been 10-14gb (better yet 22gb!) I would be getting this on PS3. Seriously, IMO, I want as much data (textures, ect) on HDD
If it would have improved anything then id would have probably given an optional full install. Also, the reason there is no mandatory install on 360 is that many of the 360 consoles out there simply don't have the space for game installs. some dont even have hdd's at all!!!!! There would be a massive impact on 360 Rage sales if only those with decent size drives could play it.
The type of gamers that are into Rage type games will have an HDD. I would estimate that approx. 95% of gamers that would buy Rage would have HDDs. Only a small fraction of Gamers don't have an HDD. Yes many non-HDD systems have been sold. But the vast majority of those have since purchased an HDD. No HDD Xbox 360 owners would equate to about the number of non-hardcore gamers. Non-hardcore gamers aren't the market for Rage sales.
Legion, that's an assumption on your part that is not based on any real numbers. There's no guarantee that a player who buys Rage has a HDD, so a developer is unable to assume that they do. On top, I doubt Microsoft would allow it.
Just inserted a 200 GB HDD into my PS3 few hours ago. Come at me Rage.
"Well, it may take a lot of time to install the game, definitely, but it also means we’ll get to see some really crisp textures. Honestly, I’d be more than willing to wait for some time to see some really good visuals." Yep if they did it for better visuals an 8 GIG install is fine for me.
Personally I have no problem with installs since you only have to do it once but makes me wonder how uncharted and god of war handle those kinds of textures without installs?
Even so, with this there will hopefullly be better graphics, textures and more to make up for the 8gb of storage gone
Installs can be annoying but when you get use to them and once you notice how better the game runs after the install, you'll see how important they are. Kudos to Sony.
Installs are not that big of a deal at all If it has to be installed then so be it, it only helps the game it's not like it ruins it. Looks like I'm at the point of buying multiplats on my ps3... I buy most games on the 360 but I'm real tired of having to pay to play online. I have been enjoying gears 3 online but today my sub ription was over. Money has been tight and I was lucky enough to get the game the day after launch, then ms wants another $59.99 for yr or $10 for a month just so that I can continue that enjoyment with gears 3. If Sony stays strong with their free online and release another console the same way... Then that will be my go to console for all games available to it. I am starting to shift that trend over now but it's been 5 yrs with lots of multiplats, Im kind of bumed I didn't support more sooner. But at least I got the exclusives.... I don't even use all those features it has!!! All I use is Netflix.. But that's just cause I like lives lay out better, but from the looks of things after I'm tired of gears 3, looks like I'm going to force my self to like.
Feel your situation bro Only difference that separates both PSN & XBL is Cross game chat, that's about it, and you have to pay for Live in order for you to use Netflix, & I heard every game has a demo on Live, but I could careless since not every game are of my interest... Some people are brainwashing others by bringing up the PSN outage as an excuse to favor Live.... That outage could happen to Live as well, it was just a dispute between hackers against Sony, not MS!!!!!! It might not have cross game chat, but after all, both services are very much equal, in cases I admit Live is better, but that doesn't make PSN any bad!!!! It's up to you, I have a 360 & might end up selling it since I have a history of RRods & E74s, & I haven't paid for Live for years already since it's a little different from PSN, & I use Netflix more on the PS3 which is said to be the better version of the service(IDK about that,that's what I've being told couple of time), I don't have to worry about paying extra!!!!!!!!
Thing is i dont even use cross game chat.. all i do and want to do is play online, really... shit happens.. i really didnt care about the outage i have plenty of off line games to keep me playing. only reason why i play live more is cause it was out longer so i have more family and friends on it. i renwed live for another month but i really dont see my self coming back after that its time to make new friends on the free service. i like lives lay out better than psn's for netflix but at the end of the day its just a look for the movie you want to see and click it so thats not a big deal either.. i dont think i will be selling my 360 though im just going to switch rolls and support the ps3 with multi and just exclusives for the 360, should of done this a long time ago..