200°
Submitted by DeeZee 1141d ago | opinion piece

Laziness Isn’t the Reason Some Gamers Hate Disc Swapping

DeShaun Zollicoffer of Geek Revolt writes:

"When the topic of disc swapping comes up and someone expresses their displeasure, they’re met with sarcastic comments like, “wow, it’s so hard getting up changing a disc, that’s 10 seconds of your life wasted”, or “stop being lazy, it’s not a big deal”. The problem with these two comments is the responders are assuming laziness is the reason some avoid games that require multiple discs. Well, that’s not a wise assumption; here are a few reasons why they don’t want to deal with it." (PS3, Xbox 360)

NukaCola  +   1142d ago
Not wanting to get off my ass has nothing to do with it. When you have to put content on two discs, it ruins the experience. If youre playing a game and you miss a sidequest on Discs 1, once you get to Disc 2, you lost that quest forever.

With a linear story, then it's managable but this is 2011, when a point A to B titles like Battlefiled has to be on 2 discs, then there is a major calling for a new format. Hell even Halo ODST which was a 4 hour DLC title turned to retail at $60 couldnt fit with the Halo 3 DLC on one disc and had to be broken up to too discs.

Another major problem is Ms themselves. On PC you can install the entire 10 discs with no problems, but on a 360 youre limited on space, and the royalties they charge for multipe discs are unholy expensive.

Just getting off my ass is the lass thing about disc swapping I'm worried about.
da_2pacalypse  +   1141d ago
wow you must be joking right? You're telling me when you're playing games you don't ever get up to stretch or get food? You just sit in front of the TV and play the game from beginning to end? I'll be honest, with a game like BF3, your experience is not going to be affected at all, one disc for multiplayer, another for single player. If a game like Skyrim were to get two discs, then we would start seeing some annoyances because of the fact that it's an open world game (but skyrim is going to be on one disc). There is absolutely nothing wrong with disc swapping, you must be a new gamer, because when I was a kid all RPG games came on multiple discs (4 was the usual number of discs). Seriously guys, stop complaining, this shouldn't even be a discussion...
#1.1 (Edited 1141d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(24) | Report | Reply
andrewsqual  +   1141d ago
Yeah and when you go from one city to the other in GTA you will have to swap discs. OH WAIT. There isn't goin to be another GTA until DVD is buried. Screw your getting off the couch to change the disc. Why do people defending disc jump to that reason. That is the last reason that any of the people who complain about multiple discs, are talking about
NukaCola  +   1141d ago
@da_2pacalypse
Ok, this is why I really get irritated with guys like you here on N4G. You people never read anything. When I was kid this when I was kid that. I am 26yrs old bud. When I was young I played tons of titles with disc swapping. That is and was never an issue for me, but in this day and age I want the entire experience in one complete package. Disc swapping breaks up the pacing of a game. You didnt read one damn thing in my comment because I never said anything about sitting in front of the TV for hours. I just said actually swapping discs themselves isnt the issue, it's all the other factors of small DVD space. read what I said again chief.

@EDIT:

This is getting out of hand. Point is..Discs swapping is holding back the industry. It was a neccessity 10 years ago, but now it's just a hinderance. Disagree all you want, but the next Xbox needs this gone. It's ruining gaming.
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BrutallyBlunt  +   1141d ago
I can swap a lot of discs before a game has been installed on my Playstation 3. Each is a minor pain so it all depends on how much of an issue some want to make it out to be.

It has nothing to do with immersion and breaking the focus. Most games are well over 8 hours and only a very small minority will sit through a game in one setting. Plus this is probably one disc for the campain and one for the multiplayer.

What i will say is when you have a game that requires you to go back and forth to do side missions that is where things deteriorate for multi-disk games. Even though Metal Gear Solid 4 was on bluray try going back to earlier missions, it was a pain. Star Ocean on the XBOX360 was also a pain. Battlefield 3 won't be as the campaign won't be sectioned off so those who make a big issue are probably those who want to make an issue because they look for reasons to downplay the XBOX360 to begin with.
#1.1.3 (Edited 1141d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(2) | Report
da_2pacalypse  +   1141d ago
@NukaCola did you read what I said? because I said in BF3 the single player will be on one disc and MP on the other... what pacing is broken there? I read what you said, the other stuff I said was just to the general consensus, a lot of people just complain because they don't want to get up.. that's not really a valid excuse in my opinion...
#1.1.4 (Edited 1141d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(4) | Report
insomnium2  +   1141d ago
@ level and pals

Do you like the idea of a GTA where you have to switch discs between towns?
DaTruth  +   1141d ago
I don't care about getting off the couch either! Certain games have to be redesigned(ex.FF13) to be more linear in order to accommodate disk-swapping or if the game was trimmed to avoid even more disks because MS charges ridiculous fees for extra disks! Even MS know more disks is bad and charges heavy royalties as a deterrent!(Carmack deterred with RAGE)

Why have limitations where none are necessary?
VINNIEPAZ  +   1141d ago
"wow you must be joking right? You're telling me when you're playing games you don't ever get up to stretch or get food? You just sit in front of the TV and play the game from beginning to end?"

THIS^^ I can see NukeCola now playing the game and God forbid he gets a phone call or the kids want a snack. "Get out you lil punks! Daddy is submerged in the game right now!!"

Funny when I played games like...

All PS2 Final Fantasy (Remember 4 Disks) Games
Resident Evil 2
Resident Evil Code Veronica
Metal Gear Solid
Vagrant Story
Parasite Eve
Shenmue
Skies of Arcadia
Grandia II

and switching disks was never a problem then and it inst now. And don't give me that dumb, "but that was on older system". That's not the point, the point is if its a big problem right now, and its just not. Maybe next gen, but bitching about it this gen this late is just stupid.

And if you talk immersion, don't play MGS4. I would rather have switched disks then wait through those 15 minutes loading screen again.

EDIT @ Nuke

"1998?" No my friend the tech was from 2005 we are playing on. SIX YEAR OLD TECH so its somewhat understandable, and you are still complaining about this now. "The God almighty 360" LOL Now I'm a 360 fanboy? I own TWO Ps3 thanks you. Also I think its the PS3 fanboys that have the "Almighty" complex as you are showing clearly now. Let me tell you a lil secret Nuke. The "almighty" Sony didn't push Bluray in the PS3 because they gave a rats ass about game storage space, they wanted to win a FORMAT WAR with HD DVD. Of course it payed off and they won, having a huge amount of space for games now is a great side effect of that, but dont think even for 1 minute that was Sonys main goal of bluray. It wasn't because they love you so much, they wanted to win the format war period.
#1.3 (Edited 1141d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
NukaCola  +   1141d ago
Your failure to understand any logic is astounding. This is obsurd to read what you right. What are you living in 1998? The God almighty 360 as you guys claim and games have to be scaled back and altered for you. You are holding back the advancment of gaming.

Ill readdress this because your few knuckleheads can't understand english. This is nothing to do with swapping discs itself. Getting up isn't an issue.

But having content stretching across multiple discs breaks the pacing of games. who am I arguing. You dont even read anything. Just one troll feeding of the bullcrap of another troll.

You cant even understand basic english. What a shame, and I thought N4G could be a place of intelligent discussion.
f789790  +   1141d ago
@NukaCola

Lol you thought a place on the internet could host an intelligent conversation? No. Not possible. People disagree on facts and all hell breaks loose.
insomnium2  +   1141d ago
@vinnie

Sony thinks ahead a good 10 years when they upgrade their consoles. PS2 had DVD which was kinda new back then. DVD was also quite clearly needed since many games at the end of gen shipped with multiple discs.

This time PS3 has BD and it's no use for you to say Sony didn't think about games AT ALL since there's the history with PS2 (and PS1 for that matter) to prove you wrong. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

@ nuka

I agree and fully understand what you are saying. Sadly n4g really IS NOT the place for adults to discuss in a civil manner. We should have an age limit of 25yo here.
#1.3.3 (Edited 1141d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(1) | Report
TheMyst  +   1141d ago
People say that it's no problem since we did it the last few gens BUT if I WANTED to switch disks I would not have upgraded to this gen. Yea, there were multiple disk games in the PS2 era but that was years ago.

MS needs to get with the times and start producing better quality hardware and games. Hell, I don't understand what went wrong, the original Xbox was solid as a rock...
ATi_Elite  +   1141d ago
Laziness Isn’t the Reason Some Gamers Hate Disc Swapping
I hate disc swapping cause

1. There is technology out there that prevents Disc swapping from even being an issue.

2. content on multiple disc means there might be a case that something was left out to make things fit.

3. Disc swapping is why PC games started getting "Cracked" in the first place. That along with a worthless disc mindlessly spinning in the optical drive made NO SENSE.

"Please insert disc 2 to complete the Nod mission" in Command and Conquer comes to mind as the last time i ever swapped a disc. It was Bullcrap back then and it's even a bigger pile of Bullcrap today!

4. it's a major hassle when going back and fourth trying to complete missions and you gotta play game disc DJ to get to where you wanna be.

5. it increases the chances of your game being "Phucked" now that you have 2 disc to prevent from being scratched instead of one.

M$ has really screwed up on the 360. sure it's fun to play and has made a ton of cash but compared to other machines from a "Design" point of view it's engineering was done all wrong. it should at have always come with a large HDD to allow installs when the games came on multiple disc or used a better game holding media.

last but not least I'll be playing BF3 on the PC using NO DISC cause that shite is old technology!

SSD Be-atches FTW!
#1.5 (Edited 1141d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
jony_dols  +   1142d ago
Multiple disks isn't as a big an issue as some people make it out to be, but it still can be a bit of a pain.

I remember I bought Dead Space 2 for my 360 when I was at home for mid-term break. After starting my play through, I then lugged my 360 (with Dead Space 2 disk 1 in the console) back to college when break was over, but I had accidentally left Disk 2 behind in the box at home.

Even though I had installed both disks on my HDD, I still had to insert disk 2 when I reached the swap point. So I had to abandon DS2 till the next time I got home.

Fast forward 2 months and I finally got to complete the game that I paid €60 for..... It wasn't the end of the world, but it still wouldn't have happened if it was on one disk or a Blu Ray.
#2 (Edited 1142d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
BrightFalls76  +   1141d ago
So your forgetfulness is the reason multiple discs is bad?
coolcut135  +   1141d ago
u shouldnt even be swapping disks in this day and age.
jony_dols  +   1141d ago
@BrightFalls76

I had saved both disks onto my HDD like I had done with Forza 3 (my only other multi disk game). However unlike Forza 3 (the way multiple disks should be done) and unbeknownst to me, it still asked for the 2nd disk even though the entire 2nd disk was saved onto my HDD.

I wasn't as much forgetful but more like complacent, because I thought developers would take a leaf out of Forza's book. I was wrong.

And yes multiple disks are worse than content saved on HDDs & Blu ray.
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ATi_Elite  +   1141d ago
Dude your Avatar is funny as shite! I do not know why but it's just funny to me.
Neko_Mega  +   1141d ago
Biggest reason for me is that I hate it if I lose disc two or even disc one, that or your 360 grids it.
da_2pacalypse  +   1141d ago
lol that makes no sense.... if you have the tenancy to lose discs, then losing 1/2 is better than losing 1/1.... nice logic
TheMyst  +   1141d ago
The 360 does love scratching disks though. It's happened to me twice (thankfully on cheaper games). You can't even touch the machine while it's on in fear that it'll eat the disk.
TABSF  +   1141d ago
Xbox 360 - 2 Discs
PlayStation 3 - 1 Disc
Steam/PC - No Disc
#4 (Edited 1141d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
grailly  +   1141d ago
yep, even though I'm a console gamer I always refer buying my games digitally. and that has all to do with laziness :)
ZILLA  +   1141d ago
2 DISC 360
talk about lame.sucks to be you
BrightFalls76  +   1141d ago
talk about lame, PS3 still can't install a full game to the hard drive.
f789790  +   1141d ago
He's right. That is kind of lame Sony never let ps3 owners do that. It would be nice.
MidnytRain  +   1141d ago
He didn't say anything about the PS3.
hourzone   1141d ago | Spam
Daz  +   1141d ago
LOL
JellyJelly  +   1141d ago
"If you hear someone say they’re buying the PS3 version of a game because they don’t want to swap discs on the Xbox 360, don’t get defensive and attempt to call them out."

Do the same rules apply for people saying they don't like mandatory installs?
Why o why  +   1141d ago
if it makes you feel better then yeah. The thing with having some games on multiple disks is that it may change the flow of the game especially on games like lord of shadows which allow you to go back to the 1st chapter. Having multi disk on some games doesn't change the experience at all apart from a break in play and its not even that often but it does affect some game types.

Imaging an rpg where you could go anywhere once you unlocked everywhere. Is there any correlation between this gens rpgs and the total lack of map screens or free roaming open worlds. I want to fly over there then im gunna have to change disks, look at final fantasy, linear springs to mind. Everything cannot be duplicated so some areas are only available by inserting the right disk in. Compare that to a one of install apart from 1 game which was mgs4. A one-off install and who in their right mind doesn't use that great 360 feature of installing to the hdd anyway. Mandatory for me.. Its a bloody great feature that I wish was available on the ps and from what i hear everybody uses that feature but its not a craw because its optional even though you're gunna do it anyway...ok then...got it
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JellyJelly  +   1141d ago
"Imaging an rpg where you could go anywhere once you unlocked everywhere."

How come they haven't made such a groundbreaking game exclusively for Blu-Ray? Doesn't Oblivion and Skyrim already do that? On one DVD disc as well.

"if it makes you feel better then yeah."

Actually, I'd find it really annoying not being able to play the game right after I've bought it and popped it in the tray. Talk about an anti-climax, having to sit and wait like an idiot before you can play it. And there are more cases of big mandatory installs for the PS3 than there are multiple disc games for the 360.

I'm actually playing through Lords of Shadows right now and I don't see the problem. Not many people will bother to collect everything in that game, and if they did they would probably finish the game first in order to get all powers and be able to access all the secret areas.
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Why o why  +   1141d ago
you must of NEVER of gamed on pc at all then and i was talking about jrpgs not games like oblivion where a million assets get repeated. Hopefully that studio ghibli game can bring back towns maps screens and free roaming like the old days. From how youre posturing its sounds like you DONT install...you crazy if that extra one off procedure spoils your high....I'd prefer taking off her clothes as opposed to having to pull out before i blow if u know what i mean;)

The ps3 really hasnt given enough games to back my point so thats sad in itself but squares pockets were lined with ms money and that 'parity' deal has ensured we may never know.
KingSlayer  +   1141d ago
Disc swapping isn't inherently bad, it's simply dated. People stroke all the tech the 360 supposedly offers, yet do cartwheels when they are still stuck swapping disc like they are rockin a PSOne.

EDIT: I replay my $60 investments. Disc swapping is flat out lame.
#9 (Edited 1141d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
FragMnTagM  +   1141d ago
You don't have to swap discs unless you constantly go from multi to single player.

I finish the campaign, then move on to multiplayer.

Why go back and forth?
MidnytRain  +   1141d ago
Seriously? I know I can't be the only one who doesn't beeline through single- and multiplayer individually. I always break them up depending on what I feel like playing.
#9.1.1 (Edited 1141d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report
NiteX  +   1141d ago
That's my main beef as well. It's so incredibly old and outdated. It makes the system feel 20 years older than it should.
SweatyFlorida  +   1141d ago
Totally agree. I mean it isn't gonna kill anyone to walk 4-6 ft to change a disc but it's the fact that you STILL have to change a disc in 2011 that's an annoyance. 360/MS needs to get with the times already!
InTheLab  +   1141d ago
I think the lazy response comes from people that refuse to acknowledge the fact that the DVD is dated tech. This would be a non-issue if MS had taken a risk with HD DVD like Sony did with Blu Ray by making it the primary format for games...another reason why rushing to market was a poor decision.

Even though HD DVD lost the format war, it still would have been a great benefit to 360 gamers, instead of a detriment to all of the gamers that bought a 360, and PS3 gamers by way of multiplat titles. Now, there's no concrete evidence that devs and pubs have intentionally crippled games just to fit them on a single DVD, but it's not that much of a stretch.

This is why most Blu Ray users bitch about the 360's problems. It remains to be seen whether this bitching is justified. The only thing that baffles me is how Blu Ray discs are said to be more expensive than DVDs, yet the games still cost the same, and the fact that devs refuse to take advantage of the extra 40 gigs left on each disc is even more irritating.
Godmars290  +   1141d ago
This argument has been going on since the beginning of this gen because MS couldn't be bothered to wait for BR/HD-DVD to develop, other reasons, and will only end with next gen.

This has got to be the worst console gen because of such petty points.
supremacy  +   1141d ago
I agreed i mean the way i see it, the ps4 and the next xbox will be more close to each other than they are now.

Ps4 better online evident by the vita and the next xbox better hardware evident by the new 360 models out there.

Believe me, non of these guys will want to stay behind and will make the necessary moves to get it right for your money.
Godmars290  +   1141d ago
I'm not rushing for next gen. Too many PS2 titles I need to finish, and in all honestly I'm more than a bit annoyed with the direction this gen has taken. Next has to show its going to be more substantial and stable, not prone to blind hype.

I just don't see that happening.
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DasTier  +   1141d ago
I agree, the reason "Sony fan boy gamers" hate it is because they see it as the only weakness of the new model 360's and are blowing this minor issue out of proportion to reassure themselves that their system is superior.

Multiple discs are not a problem, you see it with blu ray and dvd films all the time.
Yomiro  +   1141d ago
It takes 5 secs to turn your tv without remote control but people still prefer to use the remote control.
DasTier  +   1141d ago
But surely that's just laziness?
Why o why  +   1141d ago
Would you buy a tv without a remote though.......course. This and mandatory installs are one in the same. Just another reason to argue but i honestly think multiple disk CAN be a game changer for a fraction of genres whereas mand installs change nothing....apart from that mgs set....i look back and laugh at that now...no lie:)

@kavetti below.

Lol @you being addicted to the accursed..nice word. I had to have a break. When things get too emo you may have to take a sebbatical. Sometimes i cringe at some of the petty crap i get myself into here...all in good fun though. Take everything with a pinch. We are all gamers so eff it.
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maxmill  +   1141d ago
its 2011, thats why
Vega75  +   1141d ago
i laugh when people use the excuse "bu bu bu but what if you lose one of the disk" if your that stupid not to put the disk back into the case then i don't see how you wouldn't lose that one blu-ray disk. as ujean said (bub +) it's the only weakness sonyfanboys can use that's meaningless. I've never heard anyone say "I'm switching from 360 to ps3 because of disk swapping" or "I'm switching to 360 cause i hate installing a game for 30 mins on my ps3". I've been gaming for god know when and I've never to this day have ever had a problem. you show me 10 people that hate swapping disk (thats not a fanboy) and i show you 10 people that just started gaming this gen.
#15 (Edited 1141d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
hardandsloppy  +   1141d ago
The problem with your argument is that most xbox 360 gamers install their games as well, its just not mandatory. You know why they install them? It makes the game run better. Have you ever tried to play red dead redemption on 360 without installing it? It has ridiculous pop in. And no ps3 games take 30 mins to install, the 260 installs take longer, because they are larger.
Vega75  +   1141d ago
Yeah I have played red dead without installing the game on the harddrive so please stop acting like you know how people play their games on the 360 cause you don't so stop assuming. And if we are talking red dead the ps3 version was far worse with the pop in. Like I said before I have never heard anyone complain about swapping disk except for Sony fanboys which is clearly the case here. You didn't address this point at all. I repeat again show me 10 people who aren't fanboys the truly have a problem swapping disk and I'll show you they just started playing games this gen.

Now disagree all you want but it doesn't change the fact that it's a pointless argument to justify your purchase. End
Coolmanrico  +   1141d ago
I have no problem with disc swapping. In fact I'm hoping for the day we get Playstation exclusives that are so huge that they need two bluray discs.
UltimateIdiot911  +   1141d ago
The problem I have with multiple discs (not in the case of BF3) but other games such as maybe FFXIII is that it forces the devs make multiplatform games into a very linear experience. Imagine if the game is like KH or older RPG. Traveling between worlds back and forth and what not, that would result in constant disc change. To eliminate that, devs are more like to create a game where it's linear such as FFXIII where you are basically run down a hall.

The next issue is space. One DVD with the security holds about 7gb. The first priority in most case is likely to avoid using more than 1 disc. If not possible, they probably will make the experience more linear which likely means content cuts. Both is bad. Then there is the fee after more than 3 disc which is a bigger hinder. Each disc can only hold so many content with a good chunk being used for game assets such as sounds bring each disc to actually utilizing maybe 4-6 gb towards the progression of the game.

Then there is the fact that there is no standard hdd requirement on the 360 which eliminates an installation like PS3 games to make the game more seamless and eliminate any multiple disc issue like PC.

All of this adds up to a product built around a big weakness of space issue and a very outdated method of handling that space issue when space is definitely a problem.
hardandsloppy  +   1141d ago
Exactly my reason too, good comment.
BladedTech  +   1141d ago
No, the reason why gamers hate it is that it could probably fit on one disc.
kaveti6616  +   1141d ago
I'm the only one of my friends who is addicted to this accursed site.

This opinion piece was written by someone who visits this site and is a regular member. He must have read the comments and decided to write this opinion piece, no?

Thus, all of this opinions about the issue are formulated by a small group of people whose minds have been warped by this site's internal biases.

Get off the site and go to a friend's house who has never heard of this place. See if he has a gaming machine. See how he feels about it.

I doubt that most people who play games care, even to this day, about disc swapping.

This has always been a talking point among the fanatics on the internet. They pervade any and all sites that have to do with gaming.

Go on youtube and watch Gears of War 3 clip. In the comments section you'll see little children saying, "360 is best and PS3 is ghey."

That's all this is.

This opinion piece uses circular logic to form its claims.

What is the truth?

How many people outside of this website really give a damn about it? We're feeding off of our own ignorance, here.
hardandsloppy  +   1141d ago
I agree with you, but disk swapping is only bad because it has the possibility to make a game smaller, and possibly crappier. Like Final Fantasy 13. Square Enix even said that because of dvd the game got like half of its content cut, thus making the game called Final Fantasy 13-2. I do agree with you though, most people wont care about dvds and disk swapping except for fanboys, but there are some that worry about it because of technical limitations, like me.
kaveti6616  +   1141d ago
I believe that it comes down to expectations.

People who spend a lot of time researching games probably know more about games than even the developers want them to know.

For example, maybe a developer such as Peter Molyneaux likes to talk a lot about what he plans to put in his game, but when it finally releases, people who were keeping up with what he was saying will be disappointed that much of the stuff he was talking about is not present in the final product.

Square Enix did something very foolish by making those admissions about their game. They chose to make that game multiplatform because they wanted more money.

Why did they admit later on that it was the fault of the DVD that they had to cut content? Did they think that this fact would make people more sympathetic to them? No.

I mean, how often does a first party studio admit that the console they're working on forces them to limit their scope? Pretty much never. You always hear Sony's first party studios praising the power of the PS3. Even though educated people know that the PS3 is not very powerful, the people really appreciate the console and the exclusives because they believe that they're getting the best experience they can from those games.
UltimateIdiot911  +   1141d ago
@kaveti6616
In many other industry, marketing research usually pay very close to these individual (the ones that do their research and are very vocal about the product). Why? Because they are vocal.

If you always believe that it shouldn't matter because the rest of the world will never care, then the industry will never really move forward. Take a marketing research class, you'll know that these are the people that actually make a difference. It's always the tech nerds that influences purchases on major electronic purchase. I'm sure you know someone that you would turn to for advice when it comes to certain big purchases.

I don't know why you're saying the PS3 isn't very powerful because I don't know even know what you're comparing to? Which makes your point invalid. Are we compare the PS3 to a potato battery egomaniac computer or are we compare into the best damn killer rig money can buy?

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