RipTen - If you’re a role playing gamer like me, you’ve become used to certain things in your favorite games. One of those things is repairing your armor and weapons, which tend to degrade over time.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Repairing your gear is annoying, but it's more realistic. However, crafting and improving your gear is also awesome. /conflicted
I'm happy about it. Repairing would have been better if there was more depth to it, in Oblivion it was more tedious than anything.
Why am I not surprised that no one is upset by this? If this was Mass Effect, everyone would be crying about it being dumbed down. Why does Skyrim get a free pass? There's also something iffy about the exploration of Skyrim's sandbox. I see too many trails and not enough open terain.
@LadyGaga Taking out a tedious, useless feature isn't dumbing the game down. Nothing about weapon degradation was good in Oblivion. It was just a stupid bar that went down over time, with no depth to it. At least Bethesda is replacing it with something completely new. With Mass Effect, they took things away without replacing them.
Some features work well in some games while not working well in others. Taking out features that worked well in Mass Effect will upset the fanbase. Taking out the very same type of features that made Oblivion tedious might make the fanbase happy. The double standards exist because the everything else about the 2 games are different.
@Phear getting rid of a feature that was in previous games is dumbing it down as theres no reason to get rid of it... Looks like another series gone casual :) Elder Scrolls is going to be the new fable :)
@Heartnet Yes, cause the whole "click-on-hammer-click-on armor/weapons" repair system was SOOOOOOOO hardcore. It was useless and stupid. Why don't people like you learn to pick your battles.
I'd rather have it in. It adds to the realism and immersion for me.
I didn't really mind weapons breaking in Fallout. I mean there were a few times my gun went down and I was in deep sh*t but I managed. I think the scale of what SKYRIM is doing outways the few changes most gamers didn't really like that much. I think you will be switching up your gear and powers so often in Skyrim that repairing isnt even needed. They said they designed the game so you wont want to be a player who just sticks to one type of style, so I am sure we all will be switching it up and exploring the potential.
@ disagrees Weapon degradation wasn't useless. It was essential to boost your armorer, and endurance. And I bet most of you thought that separate armor pieces were "useless", too? Was having the ability is swap and match different armors also "tedious"?
If Bethesda removed the weapon crafting/repairing and that was it, then I would shrug it off and not really care. People are missing the big picture. Is weapon repairing the only thing that Bethesda has changed? HECK NO. They've simplified the magic, they've simplified the star signs, they've simplified the skill sets, they've simplified the equipment. Who knows what else they've simplified? They turned Elder Scrolls into a shallow 3rd-person (or 1st person) action game that just so happens to take place in a big game world. Whoop-dee-do. GTA4 already proved that a big game world with nothing meaningful to do is hella boring.
I wouldn't mind them keeping it, but just have them degrade at a much slower rate than in Oblivion.
Should have included both. Such inclusion would have heightened the immersion. Still going to be an awesome game though. I personally can't wait.
What's funny about this gen, and maybe its younger "gamers", but they think they are hardcore but accept casual changes to their favorite games. They think they are hardcore but would rather see changes that make games less challenging and in depth. This change is an example. So is Battlefield 3 having 2 shot Sniper Kills. But "hardcore" fans of the series defend these watering down changes because it is a game they are passionate about. If its a game they don't like they slam every change. But when a game that is the successor of an extremely deep game has "incovenient" and "annoying" RPG elements removed to make the game quicker and less difficult they accept it. I would have been happier if they kept the degredation and to boost the challenge of maintaining your equipment made some smiths better than others. This change is catered towards "less hardcore" RPG "gamers". LOL @ N4G lately.
I am actually really happy about this, it's annoying having to repair stuff. I remember in Vagrant story how you'd spend ages making the perfect weapon, only for it to break after a few uses. Weapons should never break or degrade, it's just means you have to pointlessly carry extra versions of the same weapon for no reason just in case.
If the wear was realistic, then repairs would be a needed thing; but it's probably not. I would love to play a game where I could break someone's sword with my sword; like right in two, and that dude either has to pull out another weapon or defend himself with that nub of a weapon.
I don't play Elder Scrolls or RPGs in general much, but I support this. I did play Oblivion for a bit. Needing to repair items is just an annoyance IMO. Another example of this that just popped into may head is Far Cry 2, where you constantly have to repair you car after it gets shot a few times. Is it more realistic? Maybe a little bit, but the annoyance factor goes way beyond any small amount of added realism.
I'm happy this is gone. Nothing frustrates me more than a weapon or piece of armor just degrading steadily. If it was more detailed, it would be better, but as it is, it is just a pain, and it's not in the least bit realistic. So good riddance.
What Jeseth said. But in this particular case, armourer did nothing but repair in Oblivion. They should have made it possible to craft weapons with it, then it would have a reason to exist. They improved the repair system a lot with Fallout 3, but the same idea wouldn't really work in the Elder Scrolls universe so perhaps removing it isn't really a bad idea. In terms of RPG mechanics am not expecting a great deal from Skyrim, it won't be as good as Morrowind and I have accepted that already; I am ready for great game in its own right. The best thing about Elder Scrolls was always the exploration of an amazing world, changing basic mechanics isn't going to break that. "There's also something iffy about the exploration of Skyrim's sandbox. I see too many trails and not enough open terain." That would be a technical descision, if they want a very high graphical rendering quality on the consoles they have to reduce the overall amount of data needed to render the scene (RAM limitations). The mountain shapes allow a very effective occlusion method - freeing up RAM and some GPU resources for a higher rendering quality where it matters. It is quite obvious that it is a decision forced by the console limitations but the region of Skyrim would be like that anyway even if the hardware was infinitely powerful.
You're in a fantasy world where you're the last of a race meant to kill dragons. I think Bethesda left realism a couple years back. :P
All video games exist in a fantasy world. That is the best argument you can make?
Holy shii I might just get this game....
I would like degradation, if it wasn't so damn fast, my sword gets broken in one dungeon,and it's elven
That's because you probably got one of them cheap Keebler swords. ...they're tasty, though!
Keebler?what's that? I'm not done with oblivion so there are many things about it that I don't know.Oh and I got my sword in a plane of Oblivion
lol its funny because you're a pc gamer and act like you wont find the mod for this in 48 hours after release :D I can see the reasoning based on player feedback, however. "Repairing" is such a poor incentive, if anything its just incentive to not use heavy armor at all. Although they could have tied in the allure of upgrades first, with the skill, and tied in the repairing along with it. but then some people would be shit out of luck (arguably part of the experience but meh) so then its back to having a lonely repair stat which will seem like a waste next to "MOAR DMG WOOOOOOO"
I hear you can call in an airstrike in Skyrim, too. And you can turn on "auto-combat" so that neither FF fans nor COD fans have to be stressed by Elder Scrolls "complicated" RPG factors. Simplify, mainstream, simplify.
Weapon degradation is stupid, especially since repairing it just required pressing a button a few times in a row. How realistic is that? Might as well streamline and get rid of it. 12
The "realism" is in actually seeking out a place to get it repaired.
Actually, in Oblivion you buy repair hammers.
as realistic as pressing a few buttons in a row to conjure a creature
I really don't see why they couldn't keep degradation AND simply add the better incentives of upgrades, customization, and no-degradation for maxing it out. In that way, you keep the inherent challenge while offering great rewards for your work. But without totally giving players the easy button approach.
There isn't any challenge when all you have to do is go into any shop, buy a repair hammer, and repair your stuff.
@whydoyouask The repair skill does add to the depth of the game because you always have to keep in mind the condition of your equipment and be ready before a quest. I think Tony P's sollution would be the best of both worlds.
@why: Repair is not a core element of the game, but enriches it like the removed weapon proficiencies did, like spellcrafting did, like levitation did, like open cities did, etc. I notice there was absolutely no debate over the repair skill until they announced its removal. Now everyone is trying to say it sucked, when really, few people had any complaints *whatsoever* about it. So I don't think anyone would have really cared if it was kept in. However, people actually would (and do) care if it was removed.
well I like the question he askes at the end of the article about if it makes it less realistic or better. Ill wait to play the game to decide if I like it but it sounds fine I think. I like the idea of being able to upgrade your armor/weapons for sure. Im not sure how many people are worried about the realism in a game where you can be a lizard or cat man and fight dragons. I hope you can chop limbs/heads off, that would be awesome, but I doubt it will be in the game. I can dream tho
Degradation was a good feature; however, the method of repairing to simple to where it just became nuisance. I remember that I just would carry the maximum number of hammers always so I wouldn't ever have to worry. If Bethseda slowed down the degradation process they could also implement a more involved repair feature beyond click X hundreds of times.
You want real weapon degradation and repair? Make it a pain in the neck like in Vagrant Story. Now that's realism. But if all you do is press a button over and over, I can do without it and not feel the game is cheapened. 12
I am happy about it. I hated taking time out in other games to repair my stuff. I know that happens in real life, but Dragons don't attack me in real life either. I want fun, not realistic. Unless of course realism adds to the fun.
if your sword or whatever never breaks or gets old then it's not a really good RPG! I play the STALKER series and yeh i hate being out in the Zone fighting snorks only to have my favorite gun begin to misfire every 15 bullets and loose power and accuracy but you know what it really adds to the realism. Like having my gun out for protection while wading through the swamps hunting artifacts is gonna rust it quicker and cause it to jam but hey that's just like real life. I really like weapon degradation cause it makes you plan more when you know your gonna be out in the middle of know where for a long time with no mechanics/blacksmiths in site. Knowing that your weapons will not break is just like playing COD and knowing your not gonna die as long as you can hide and regenerate health.
Weapon degradation in Oblivion was tedious and a complete waste of time. No one plays a fantasy game for realism's sake. Developers just take elements from reality that they think/feel would be fun in a video game. Guess what? Dragons aren't real! Whoa! Getting back on point- there's nothing real about carrying around 40 repair hammers at all times (like I did) just to make sure your ebony sword doesn't break. Nor is it real in carrying around +100 lbs of misc junk in your inventory/backback. I could carry hundreds of oddly shaped items, weapons and armor in my backback. Really? Your other argument about "planning" is moot also. Unless your fast traveling to a dungeon (very real also) your bound to run into an enemy that completely f-ks up your "planning." The end result is a game in which you end up traveling thousands of miles back and forth from town to dungeon in order to fix equipment and buy repair hammars. Considering how wild and dangerous the world of Cyrodiil happens to be, your character is pretty needy and hardly self-sufficient. You rip on COD for having regenerating health and not being real, yet sleeping for 16 hours heals all your wounds in Oblivion? I wish that happend in real life...s/ I believe your arguments are riddled with contradictions. I would be all for armor/weapon degradation if it was actually believable and fixing said equipment was fun. Imagine if you had to grind away on a sword to make it sharp again or polish a shield to make it gleam/shiny. There is no way to truely fix metal without the proper tools and a furnace. It might sound like I'm ripping on Oblivion , however I'm just pointing out the reality that its a video game. Have fun with it. The previews are overwhelmingly positive. Don't let this news ruin your day or your experience with the game.
there should be a hard mode where you do get damage but i dont mind this, beats repairing.
Hell yeah!!! now i can spend my money on more weapons and armour and a new horse! and not spend it all on fixing my armour!
this was a useless and tedious feature glad its out, who ever disagress can stfu noobs, that wish to repair repitively a sword after few hits.
I'm conflicted also. In Oblivion if you got your repair skill to max, you could just repair weapons anyway without any cost. Though it was always easy to find repair tools to fix armour or weapons and therefore I don't think the removal of this is dumbing down the game because it is not making it any easier. However if removed from Fallout, it would make a bigger difference. Also repairing things in both Oblivion and Fallout was just annoying. Though I think they could have come up with a better way of doing it rather than just removing it but it isn't a huge loss.
If u r gonna implement it, it has to b done perfectly or its simply a hassle. I love the idea that certain weapons made by certain ppl may never degrade but im guessing its something I wont miss. U do have to have a complex upgradin system then because ppl love messing w their weapons. I wouldn't have minded if certain weapons broke (like cookie cutter ones but its pointless in a game u can reload). I dunno I am split but its the norm these days to trim, trim, trim as much as u can without pissing off the base (me2 was successful, da2 was not). Only time will tell. My guess is that the immersion level is so profound that it wont matter.
It's best to wait until the game's out, really. The Skyrim crew needs to make tons of decisions that affect the overall product, and this is just one piece of that puzzle. And I agree with Joab - if they couldn't get repairing to be enjoyable, or at least integral, it's best that they leave it out. All I know is that I've seen enough of this game to not scream "Casualization" at the top of my lungs. At the very least, this is not going to be another Fable III.
Damn but they had this before? Hmm... Repairing is annoying though... I'm torn about this. I guess I have to wait and see. *looks at above post* okay I'm not alone in puzzling , not--sure-what - to think reaction......
It is becoming less of a RPG.
It is, if repairing was such a hassle in previous games, then FIX THE REPAIR SYSTEM. Removing it is just a bad move for this style of game. Imagine if Fallout did not have a repair system. How fun would that be?
So much for not dumbing the game down... Oh well, game will still be awesome.
In Fallout 3 repairing barely even factored into things, you could just repair everything from the menu and never even visit a blacksmith. This is just the step beyond that.
Having to go into the menu ever 2 minutes was annoying as hell imo. I think removing this will add to the gameplay experience and immersion of the world.
if you take out "going into the menu every 2 minutes" it can sometimes make action-rpg games lose their true RPG feel and just feel like an action game.
@soundslike - If going into the menu every 2 minutes to do the same thing over and over is what defines a great RPG I guess I'm not the fan of the genre I thought I was.
Missing the point, I feel. Had they managed to make repairing your weaponry and armour n enjoyable or thought provokinmg thing rather than the mind numbing pain in the arse uit was then, sure, do it and make it better-if they couldn't? Then leave it out. It's a compromise and not a dumbing down when the thing we lose was totally bogus in the way it was already impkemented. And it WAs bogus, boring and pointless. I'm just hoping that, finally, there';s a DECENT way of scanning planets for stuff in ME3 as it's been the weakest part of the two games so far just as the repairing/degradation felt like an out of place and ill thought out pain in Oblivion. Make mining fun! Make degradation realistic and repairing a more important part of the core experience or leave it out. If it comes to deeper combat and magic instead of degradation who's really gonna pick dulled weapons and fairly dull menu slogging? Did the degrading of weapons DEFINE TES gameplay? No, no it didn't and a lot of us will have moaned about having to do it in the past and as it never felt like you were actualy doing much beyond wasting a bit of time I don't see much of a loss. Maybe it wil be back in the future if they tie it into building skill trees, into the damage stats(like a weapon gaining it's own XP as it continually gets honed by it's user, no?)but as that would be an entirely rethought situation I see why we're losing it. Also, if doing the repairs added to dexterity or something it could be cool but, again, that would be a major change and if it's combat over repair I know where I'm off!
I am very glad about this. Repair hammers were really hard to find when you needed them.
You could have used the item duplication glitch. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Ob...
@urizen hahahaha which kind of makes the whole item repair thing a moot point anyway.... so if you would use that... you might as well just have it removed from the game! Like quite a few other people I am unsure about it, having item damage did add another aspect to the game... but let's be honest, it didn't really play a big part.... click a hammer or visit a blacksmith!
As am I, this is such great news to me, odd that others liked repairing equipment after a few enemy encounters.
I don't know, I want degradation but not really quick. Maybe that was the problem. You had to repair often. If you had to repair after 1 hour of total combat I would like it.
I like degradation. It adds more to realism.
Realism? Then how can your character go on entire journey without stopping to use the bathroom once? This is a video game, it's supposed to be fun, not frustrating.
Again with the lack of loos? I fail to see what the hang up is about in game toilets-we could have a lot of fun with the quest to find a public convenience in Elven kingdoms, whether they're free to all races etc and spending a penny at the right time couuld build your luck and health stats too-even keeping charisma up, no? to me the loo seems more integral in my mind than degrading weaponry. no reason you couldn't have it in there and relevant and as it's so often a critique why not?
What? Going to the toilet in skyrim would be far more annoying and frustrating that weapons degradation.
Good! Degradation sucks! Even though more realistic, it's just stupid in video games IMO. Degradation is not far from cars running out of gas in GTA.
Wanna know something funny. I'm never going to call a game like GTA super realisitc until you have to refuel your car and use turn signals lol. I have never seen a game with turn signals. On topic: Like most idk how to feel about this. I don't exactly like to feel like a bad ass in these games unless I have to work for it and not heaving weapons degrade will just make things that much easier. Unless the game is overall harder than the last games.
Im pretty sure that Driver 1 on PS1 and PC had turn signals. I remember if you pressed the stick left or right the blinkers would go on. And in mafia 2 you could get gas for your cars, but im not sure what it did as my car never ran out of gas the entire game. People looking for realism in videogames need to find a new hobby. No offense to anyone here looking for realism in games, I dont think any game is realistic at all. The day a realistic(especially a FPS) game comes out is the day that everyone who is clamoring for "realism" in their games decides realism isnt fun and doesnt buy that game.
They were mandatory in The Getaway: Black Monday, was strange having to obey laws to such a degree.