360 Magazine: Surely this tired mechanic should be put to bed soon?
Achievements were a great idea that changed the gaming landscape across PlayStation and mobile devices. No way Microsoft would ditch this.
From the article, the 5 reasons are: ***1. It forces you to do terrible things*** That just means bad design on the achievements. For instnace, I hate online achievements, because you can't replicate anyones experience so it is a little unfair on top of encouraging people to diverge from proper teamwork. That said, properly done it is great! CoD4: MW did it right with Mile High Club Achievement. ***2. It breeds hate in your fellow gamer*** I have never heard of any animosity due to your gamerscore... beyond, you have no life since you have such a high score, but you hear that anyhow when you happen to be good at a game. ***3. It’s going to become even more elitist*** The gaming community is among the most elitist and immature group of people I have been involved with. I have also found some great friends in it.... ***4. It meddles with sales figures*** Not, my problem. If it sells and people buy it, that is their issue. None of my business of preventing others from buying something they want as long as it doesn't affect me. ***5. It allows developers to get away with murder*** For some gamers, it extends gameplay. If they don't enjoy it, that is their fault. Who am I to complain about what others spend their time on. Some would say playing video games is waste of time.... I like Achievements, but would like MS to have better guidelines on acceptable practices. Certain type of achievements shouldn't be done like KZ2's (yes, it is a trophy) you must be at the top of the leader boards chart. Only a fraction of the community can get that.
Exactly! @Dave Shaw, STFU! You sound ridiculous. This is what Soccer Moms do when little Timmy isn't the star pitcher on the 9yr old little league team. Then making a rule that all kids pitch? No! Achievements are good to fight against liars. The guys that say "oh I beat that", no you didn't, I saw your gamer score. "Oh but I played it", no you didn't, I saw your gamer score. "Well...I,I" nah, STFU with your [email protected]! @M$, please dont listen to "Dave Shaw" & other knuckleheads that want to ruin an innovative feature. Next, Dave will say we dont need Cross Game Chat!
To make achievements more appealing they should offer a points for prizes, so you can cash in any gamerscore you have accumulated for free games/content from the market place.
were thinking of that. However in the beginning people found ways to add GS to an account.
No online achievements/trophies. Campaign only
I am 50/50 when it comes to achievements, I went through a phase where I was pretty obsessed with them and I loved them at the time, gave me a reason to keep playing games that I had already finished. But now I look at my pile of shame and there are so many good games on there that I have not even started. some of the games I replayed for achievements were quite long, like Mass Effect (30+ hours) and Fallout 3 (70+ hours), looking back now I wish I had played other games instead of replaying ones that I had already finished.
Achievements and trophies are here to stay. There are plenty of people that primarily (or only) play one console because they don't want to fall behind on their gamer score or trophies by splitting time across multiple systems. It's sad and pathetic but unfortunately true for far too many people.
Achievements add more value to the game. "The Xbox 720 shouldn't have terriblely-implemented achievements" should be the title imo.
Doesn't matter if the mechanic is tired, if he hasn't finished his shift, he won't get paid.
I think it fundamentally alters the design of quite a few 360 titles in ways that simply promote grinding. Though you could ignore them it's hard to, making games slightly less satisfying than they used to be.
You know what I think? Achievements were good, but with 80,000 Gamerscore, I just don't care anymore. They should use points as an aggregated system to give each gamer a rating. Better still, nobble MW2's system and employ a meta-achievement system that unlocks insignias and such, not for specific games, but for overall amounts of tough-to-get chieves. MS need to find some way of making them feel valuable points of gaming pride once again.
It better have them. I dont want my 121,000+ score to go to waste.... uh... wait
Acheivements will be changed around a bit I suppose with the next Xbox. Gamerscore will stay... they have it in their Windows Phone 7 platform...its integrated everywhere. That said, I think they will enhance how you view your achievements. Possibly make some kind of awards room that can seperate out the different platforms and your gamerscore on each. So you have total score...but then you have your Xbox 360 score, your windows phone 7 score, Games for Windows score and finally your Xbox 720 score. And each area might have a different look at feel. Either way...acheivements will carry on...just like your gamertag.
Why? They dont take really any resourse and i find them satisifying.
yeah i think all systems should drop the idea of achievements. there stupid and add nothing to the game except for the dev telling you how to play there game when you should be able to do whatever i want not to mention they don't mean anything, unlike the achievement dudebros who claim your bad at a game because you didn't get all the achievements
Bullshit. Achievements are great -- I find myself replaying titles to go for harder achievements that I otherwise wouldn't do. They really add a lot of replayability to games. If you don't like them, what impact does it have on you? All you have to do is turn notifications off.
Yes, but the very fact the exist make you feel as if you're missing out if you don't chase them. If you do, you'll often end up toiling through parts of a game you wouldn't otherwise touch. I've had my enjoyment of plenty of games ruined by such an urge.
Achievements add tonnes of replay value. Its like earning 100% in a game. So many people used to do that in games before achievements exsited. Now that chivos exist, suddenly its a terrible thing. Well no. All they do is add that little bit more enjoyment into getting that "100%". Besides, so what if achievements are in 720 or not. They do litterally no harm at all. Just turn them off if they bug you. TADAH.
But it isn't, though. Earning 100% in a game is like earning 100% in a game. I don't want to collect every icon, pigeon, jump on every platform or never walk on cracks on the pavement because I'm not mentally ill. I want to play the entertaining parts of a videogame, and avoid that kind of obsessive nonsense.
They're called Collectables. Theyve been around for decades.
I don't get why they bother you so much Dave. It sounds more like paranoia than anything. I kind of understand where you're coming from but I think the vast majority of players that don't care about achievements simply don't let them bother them. Take me for example. I don't care about achievements at all and I have rarely gone out of my way to get them. If I do get one I just shrug it off. People seem to love achievements and they are one of Microsoft's great ideas this gen. The potential harm you're alluding to does seem exaggerated and entirely subjective. I don't think achievements are going anywhere.
My wish is that there would be an option from the dashboard to turn them off all together. I don't want the feature to go away for those who enjoy but personally I do not see the point. Look at the "leaderboards" on Xbox: http://www.xboxgamertag.com... I don't look at this and think, "Wow, that is so cool" I think "Get a life" or "Hello Modio!" Honestly, hundreds of thousands in achievements. Imagine what you could have accomplished in the real world that would have been a REAL achievement.
Achievements aren't going anywhere. I'm sure we'll all keep our Gamerscore that we have when we switch over. The Windows Phone allows Achievements as do certain Windows games. If anything, I don't like to play games with no achievements, you get a sense of accomplishment.
What's that called where you don't need something in the beginning but once it's there and it's gone it's like well darn..... There's a term for it I believe.
I would at least like the option to turn achievements off with the 720. Or haide gamerscore. I know many love Achievements and think they add value, but to me they kinda force me to play a game I don't want to play. Its either: Play how we tell you, or have a low gamerscore.
i am rather shocked that this site would an issue with Achievements. Achievements have created longevity in games. It makes players want to play that game just that much longer so is to get that achievement. It's like a badge of accomplishment. It creates pride in the gamer and has helped gamers acutally grind through bad games just to get the achievements. The writer seems to think that adding achievements allows developers to get away with making bad games. A bad game is a bad game. Achievements don't make a game better, it just prolongs the life of the game to the consumer...if the consumer can get past the fact that the game is bad. I have many many games where I haven't gotten all the achievements, so if I am not going to get all of them with great games, I am sure as heck not going to waste my time playing a bad game to get them.
Finishing a video game isn't an accomplisment, it's entertainment. College, career, marriage, children, real world experiences, those are accomplishments.
Well said, sir!
Nobody said finishing a game was an accomplishment. I said: "It makes players want to play that game just that much longer so is to get that achievement. It's like a badge of accomplishment" Getting that achievement is the accomplishment. The one you are striving to get, which is a direct result of prolonging your gameplay. I agree with you that College, career, marriage, children, real world experiences are all accomplishments but an accomplishment is determined in the person who is choosing to "achieve" something. It could be anything. That is up to the person. I get up at 6am every moring to workout. I hate getting up at 6am in the morning yet I force myself to do it. To me, that is an accomplishment. While others wouldn't do it and would rather sleep in, like myself, I manage to get up, get ready and go down to the gym. It's hard as heck to get up at 6am to go to the gym, but I do it. At the end of the day, I feel like I had accomplished something. Like I said, people choose for themselves what they feel is an accomplishment, not told by others if what they did is worthy to be considered an accomplishment or not. And on second thought, yes finishing a game could be considered an accomplishment. It's up to the person who wants to achieve it. And if that person wants to finish that game regardless of how long, boring, tired, hungery or whatever that person feels, to them they accomplished finishing that game. BrightFalls76 I don't think you understand what the term "accomplishment" actually means. http://www.thefreedictionar... There you go.
I don't think they should get rid of the whole concept, for me achievements add hours of gameplay for games that I love, they make me want to do things that I usually wouldn't because you earn something at the end of it. I never understood why some people play bad games with easy achievements and them blame the achievements for making them want to play it, that's the person's fault for having an addiction to achievements, no matter how small the addiction is, you can't blame achievements for that. For people who don't like them, simply hide the notifications and they won't bother you, I don't see what the issue is.
***1. It forces you to do terrible things*** That's the devs choice. ***2. It breeds hate in your fellow gamer*** I care. Really. ***3. It’s going to become even more elitist*** No, it won't. Why would it? ***4. It meddles with sales figures*** If by "meddle" you mean "increase" then sure. ***5. It allows developers to get away with murder*** If devs are going to be lazy, they are going to be lazy with or without achievements. Fact.
By 'meddle', I mean 'bad games sell better than they really should'.
If anything I think they will add something new to achievements, no way are they getting rid of it.
I love hearing that "ping" sound. It better stay! The only thing that would make getting achievements better would be if you could SPEND the achievement points at the marketplace. This would give players a real reason to want to earn achievements by rewarding players.
i personally love them, if an older multi plat game i want to play & it has achievements but no trophy support, then im getting it for 360 so i feel like im getting something out of playing it, other than the fun of course. Man im such a freakin noob though ive had my 360 for a little over a month but still looking at a 1700+ gamerscore is kind of despressing when i am upper level 14 with psn.
Just get rid of online achievements, if someone wants to do some stupid crap in their singe-player game just to net 1 achievement then that's no concern of mine, just don't put an incentive to act like a dick in the multi-player as well. Also if you don't play online or have a gold account then sometimes you miss out on a whole bunch of achievements that could have been put to better use with interesting challenges in SP. Also no more achievements that take an obscene amount of time to get, yes I'm looking at you Mortal Kombat with your master each fighter achievement, 24 hours with each character. I've played that game quite a lot since it's released, and I think the highest number of hours I've accumulated with 1 character is about 18 hours, and I have about 5/6 other fighters with over 5 hours each on them, with 1 or 2 around 10. That's still hundreds of hours remaining and no way in hell am I doing that.
Screw that, I love achievements. I`m hoping our current gamerscore will carry on to the next Xbox.
I think everyone who loves achievements and think that gaming is anything more than entertainment might want to look up the definition of "important": http://www.thefreedictionar... None of this is important.
Umm, you're the first one to say the word "important" on this thread. Ok, gaming isn't the most important thing in the world, but that doesn't mean that you can't have the feeling of accomplishment from games and other entertainment. (referring to your previous comment "Finishing a video game isn't an accomplisment, it's entertainment.") You're just making no sense whatsoever. To me, gaming is a hobby, and it does feel good when I finish a game and even better when I get platinum from it. I really don't get the mentality of some of you on this topic. I understand that you don't like them and don't want to use them or don't care about them, but saying that it should be removed completely is just plain childish. If you don't like it, just ignore it! Almost makes me think that someone doesn't have the skills to get a good gamerscore and is rampaging here like a little toddler and demanding it removed altogether.
Achievements extend the life of games and give you something extra to play for. Some have tasks that are really fun to try to get that you may not have thought to do. if you don't like them don't worry about them. You don't have to try to earn them, you don't have to care what your gamerscore is, you don't have to care what other gamers scores are, you don't have to care what achievements other gamers did or did not earn. Play the game and ignore them if you don't like them. How are they hurting anyone by being there?
Achievements should stay. I think some are just ridiculous to achieve though but thats why they are there- to spice things up. Plus sometimes the developers put something funny or interesting in that makes it worth it. Or you do something drastically different. The gamerscore system is useful as well. I'd like that to stay.
While there are some horrible achievements/trophies and some people have a compulsion to do things they don't want but I think the good outweighs the bad. They can add replay value and here have been many things I wouldn't have seen/tried if not for achievements/trophies nudging me in the right direction.
I would love achievements to be hard, but then allow the user to spend it at the market place.
What an awful whiny article. The author just comes off as a self-proclaimed old school gamer who misses his atari and nintendo. Achievements and trophies are an integral part of gaming now, and bloody hell you can turn off notifications if it really doesn't suit you. I felt like a moody teenage girl wrote that.
if they want to ditch something it should be the xbox live player feedback. its pointless does not work and means absolutely nothing. when is the last time you said "ah im not playing with this guy he has a bad rap for trash talking"? you dont because you could fucking care less who you own in cod.
It would be better to improve the Achievement system rather than remove it. This article suggests that we need to ban the achievement system in order to protect people from themselves; which is Nanny-state thinking. Nothing compels me to hunt for achievements, if the requirements for getting said achievement are ridiculous or boring. It's just a matter of learning to say NO, whereas the author of this article wants to rely on NO CHOICE.
The Achievement system is a genius move by Microsoft, they add tonnes of replay value to games and reinvigorated the games communities...above all it adds more fun...this article is a load of BS, Achievements are here to stay for generations to come, otherwise all effort/money invested by game buyers of Microsoft will be for nothing! It would be unthinkable and a disgrace if achievements aren't here to stay....tell ur story to the cheap cheating pirates cause achievements are worth nothing to them, it means a lot to the buying core gamers audience.
I couldn't disagree with this story more.
I think they should scrap the scores and instead have you earn trophies/achievements that unlock fun extras that devs include on the disc. Just simple things like avatars, themes/dynamic themes, home/xbox avatar clothing, game soundtracks, mini-games, behind the scenes stuff etc, all non-game changer stuff that would be cool to have.
I think they are fine, as long as they get rid of online achievements. I don't play every games online mode and often don't have time to go beyond the campaign. Cod4 did it just right. Achievements get you to do things and experience games in ways you wouldn't normally. They get me to play deeper into a game besides beating the main story.
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