SystemLink: "PSN Pass, since its half-hearted reveal, has had nothing but bad press. And we're about to add to that, as Sony's new online scheme sets sights on something very close to our hearts; gaming rentals."
Goddamnit. Honestly, this is the worst thing Sony could have done. Really annoyed with this.
Why are you annoyed? Edit: @LordMe...Thank you! Good point, some people will never get it. @ PhilipLarkin, I understand your point. We are currently at a time where the gaming industry is shifting to a new direction...Online Pass. There are companies who will be effected by this a long with the gamers but have you every thought for one second about the developers that was effected by the used and rental gaming markets for years now? I think with time a better solution for the online pass may happen. Just give it some time.
I rent a lot of games. It saves money, but I don't 'kill the industry'. I'd love to be able to buy every game coming my way, but I want to be able to play stuff like F.E.A.R. 3, something I'd never have the money for, and then see if it warrants a full purchase. So I rent it. With this, seems like most PS3 big-name games won't give me online until I plump up £40 for the full thing. Might as well just charge for base usage of PSN.
I do that same thing. I rent most of my games because moneys tight and my mommy hasn't bought be a game in ten years. I can't afford to buy every game I want to play but renting allows me to do that. If I like a game enough I buy it through gamefly and get a discount. It's a win-win for me; I play a ton of games and when I find one I want to keep I get a discount.
@ PhilipLarkin "I rent a lot of games. It saves money, but I don't 'kill the industry'." lol yes, you do. As much as who buys used games. Also if they not indend to "kill the industry" they actually do. You don' t buy games, but you play them. Who takes the money? Not the industry for sure. So, yes, you are "killing the industry", also if you don' t want to hurt.
I rent a lot of games and buy them used as well. This won't be good for Gamefly subscribers.
Ironically: a) you want the renter to get hooked on multi-player so they will buy your game b) introducing online passes, lowers the cost of used games in store, thereby making them appear as a much better bargain next to the "brand new" games for sale
@logicwins If it's anything like Medal of Honor it wont be that big of a problem. All Dice did with the online pass was lock the deeper features of the online, so you could still play online and get a feel for it to decide if you like it or not. They basically allow you to demo the online with out the code (If I remember correct they locked some weapons and maps). If you like the game and buy it from them, Gamefly with send you the case with the code inside.
@gamingdroid lol if that was the case im pretty sure they wouldn't result to online pass in the first place
So Seventh, what do you suggest? Buy every game that looks remotely interesting?
Larkin even said that if he likes what he rented he'll buy it. Something I even do on Gamefly.
Let me ask you this...when you rent a movie or stream it are you killing the movie industry? Is the movie industry dieing because of Netflix, Redbox or On Demand? Because as far as i can remember there have been video stores since the dawn of VHS and Beta.
Used games are NOT killing the industry. Games like CoD, Gears, God of War, GT, Halo raked in lots of cash. Even new IP's like Darksiders, Bioshock and Mass Effect. I'm pretty darn sure they also had used games sold.
Plain and simple EA, Activision and Sony want to cut out used/trade games. They want to see more money. Something every company wants, Money.
I have had gamefly for over a year now. I am a hardcord Single Player Gamer, i dont care much for multiplayer so this route by sony will get them nothing extra from me.
I honestly just see this as something else to bill people for. Come 9th generation not the ps4/xbox720 or whatever but the next generation i belive most games if not all games will be direct download with no physical media which makes the used game market obsolete....unfortunatly for me that also makes gamefly the same thing :(
@philip and others Why is it so hard to see that games do give you a good taste of the MP even without the code. I played Homefront online a couple of hours and thought it would be best to sell it without activating the code. That game has a level cap of 5 untill you activate the code. More than enough to get the hang of it imo. You can play it for as long as you like at lv5 to make absolutely sure you like it before purchase. As for renting that's not even possible where I live. I buy most my games new 2-3 months from release when they are around 20 euros. LBP2 is now 15 ponds and I think that is my next purchase. I have about 10 games still in plastic waiting to be played. There has never ever been a better time to be a gamer I'll tell you that. This online pass thingy will not affect me the slightest and I cannot see how anyone could be struck badly financially by this. What's the hurry? Buy your games 2-3 months after their release.
@ maniacmayhem: "So Seventh, what do you suggest? Buy every game that looks remotely interesting?" Well, I do it if I have the money, I i have not enough I simply wait and buy it later ... But this is not the topic. The topic is that also if legal and legit hurts the games sales ... come on, I'm not telling anyone to do nothing different from what they do, I'm just stating a fact. I'm not judging. "Is the movie industry dieing because of Netflix, Redbox or On Demand?" Movie industries are cashing rights for this ... Those who rent the games do not pay for rights as mush as I know, at least where I live they don' t and I am sure of this because I know very well how shops do here. If there they pays rights, well good to know.
For those who can't read or believe a no name website, The whole point of the pass is to buy it if you want to play multiplayer. If you buy the game used or rent it you have to buy the pass to use the online portion of the game. Game discs can't differentiate the difference between rented or used. I hate the idea but stop drinking the kool aid. You can still take your used and rental game and play online once you buy a pass. You can also share the pass if you have multiple systems. You can also sign in under different accounts on you system and use the pass. I swear people get more stupid everyday. The bottom line it sucks but it's not the end of the world.
If you don't play online this is a plus. now used games *should* be cheaper... And if you don't have enough to buy a game new, wait a few months. You will not die from not playing the game on release date. "With this, seems like most PS3 big-name games won't give me online until I plump up £40 for the full thing." -You can buy the pass on PSN. "Might as well just charge for base usage of PSN." -Then everyone will have to pay, with PSN pass only people that will have to pay are people that buy used/rent "Let me ask you this...when you rent a movie or stream it are you killing the movie industry? Is the movie industry dieing because of Netflix, Redbox or On Demand? Because as far as i can remember there have been video stores since the dawn of VHS and Beta." -Movies earn majority of their money from theatres... People buying from dvds/blu-ray is a bonous.
and when this game pass crap starts to get widespread it will be the exact reason i will have to give up this beloved hobby of mine... games are expensive enough as it is....so lets add more cost to the shit
@JoGam So how many activation fees do you think they need? and are we saying that if I buy a game, activate it, then sell it only to buy it again later do I pay another activation? or will my old one work? I don't get it, how is it game specific if you have to keep activating it? the game can only be played by one person at a time so one activation should be enough and should be paid by the rental company not the end user.
"developers that was effected by the used and rental gaming markets for years now?" So I suppose you'd support a movie pass as well so those "evil" movie rental places would stop taking away from the multi million in-taking movie industry? The game industry too makes a ton of money off of games already, it is in no harm or showing any signs of a collapse and the developers even makes tons of money off of a desired career. What confuses me most is why people would want and support something taken away from them. No game rentals and no used games does not benefit you what so ever. You're argument is that you'd happily pay more just because you hate game stop so much / Gamestop is evil because it takes away from rich developers that could be even richer? This to me is very confusing. "We are currently at a time where the gaming industry is shifting to a new direction" Not if my wallet has anything yo say with it, thank god for competition. Game pass will not succeed with me as a consumer because I will not support it.
The funny thing about this is that the industry and developers are acting like they're hurting by used game sales and rentals when they actually aren't. You think the retailers who sell used games or rentals originally got these games for free? They didn't. Retailers buy games in bulks, so the devs always get at least 1 sale of how ever many the retail store buys. What devs are whining about is that they aren't getting the continual sales that used games and rentals generate. It's pure greed. Say you develop a game, and you sell say 100 copies to a Gamestop or Gamefly. You just made 100 sales right there. Both retailers purchased those games from the publishers/developers so what's the problem? Am I missing something here?
That's pretty bad; Sony ought to support rentals because not everyone will rent and some people will buy based upon rentals.
you can still rent it and try it out EA's online pass gives you 2 day free trial. But i mostly rent games for single player and for that this doesn't affect me There has to be a better solutionto this. gamestop gamefly publishers all need to sit and work out something because this can not and will not be good for anyone involved. gamestop should give 15% of all their used games sales back to original publishers gamefly can raise their fee $3 dollars and give that to publishers but since none of that will happen and this online pass is happening more and more i think after sony UBI and Activision is next in line for sure gamestop is making a killing along with a lot of us who sell on ebay or craiglist while the publishers or the devs don't make that money twice or 3 times I am with the devs on this one i think if anyone they deserve some kind of kickback
Me, my kids and my girl friend share a large collection of games. We play on multiple psn ID's with 3 Ps3's in the house (Soon to be 4). What does this mean for us? If i buy resistance 3 I'll have to purchase a PSN pass for every console and/or every account to play it online? Seriously? What about the Japanese Imports? With the EU store even sell the code to play them online or will i have make a Jap psn account and top that up to buy the card and play it? Really bad news for my family!
White Knight Chronicles 2 in Japan had a pass for online that only worked on a Japanese account and would only let a Japanese account go online.
Lucky me. I haven't rented a game in over five years.
Ya know. I am pretty sure EA's online pass is the same way, Mortal Kombat had one as well. I would have thought everyone would have come to expect this. Companies have to make money to stay alive. Why do you think Game Republic shut down? No one bought their game. Simple logic really.
True; but d'you think Resistance 3 NEEDS the PSN Pass in order to 'stay alive'?
Do you think that cutting into their profit can hurt quality of the next game? I do not think it NEEDS it, but I do believe it will help it out. If a game sells 2 million at launch it is doing good... But in the coming months as it spreads through word of mouth among friends the company could realistically lose another 500k in sales. Do you think that a half a million sales gone can hurt the company?
***but d'you think Resistance 3 NEEDS the PSN Pass in order to 'stay alive'?*** Yes. "Staying alive" = making a profit in the long run. In order to do this, they will need to do what they can to ensure that people who buy their game and play online are putting money into the cost of said service. R3 needs this sort of tactic in order to ensure a long-term profit. Look at R2 sales, which were fairly underwhelming for the type of game and budget.
@ LordMe....People here are so immature they can't see past their own opinion of the situation and look at the bigger picture.
I rented MK and tried the online free pass and it was crap. Lag and drop outs, no way would I buy a pass for that.
I also gamefly, I have the three game out deal because i game A LOT. If i were to buy all the games i have tried from gamefly I would be the broke. Simple.
I said it before i'll say it again...
EA, SONY are BILLION dollar companies to say they're going broke anytime soon is laughable. They want to force players to buy new, if not they'll try and squeeze a little more out.
You did say it:
"Companies have to make money to stay alive."
A company like EA wont die. But do you think it'll stop them from laying off 60% of their employees after a project is finished? Or shutting down a development house and moving resources elsewhere? We read about that stuff happening all the time here on N4G and other sites. It's the nature of the business, it has nothing to do with used game sales.
I'm guess i'm more of a power to the consumer kind of guy because if its a deal i'm going for it.
I never once said they would die if it kept up. Sony, EA and such huge companies it would take ALOT of used games sales to kill them. But it still is a threat. But said game studio might get shut down. IF Dead Space 2 failed, EA would not have died... But Visceral Games might have been closed. Again: They are a business, they will always try to make money, that is kind of a key detail in running one.
I just disagreed because of your MK comment. Lag should be expected when a major game comes out (and my lag was minimal), and if ppl drop out how is that in any way the fault of the pass?
You people are forgetting 1 simple fact..... EVERY SINGLE USED GAME WAS ONCE BOUGHT AS A NEW GAME TOO. A game needs to sell a new copy before it is sold as used. Its not like a dev never recieved money for that used game you bought. the original owner paid them for it. I just think that this is a way to milk money from consumers. If devs/publishers have a problem with the used game market they should enter it themselvs and compete with GS, or better yet go all DD and then there will be noone selling you game used. Devs are making consumers pay for their problems. Used games is nothing new, but suddenly with all this DLC/patch garbage they found a way to charge a "used tax" and they are doing it. edit- dont get all high and mighty on me, I dont even buy used games. And I pretty much only rent SP games, not multiplayer. but I think its just milking consumers. Especially when it comes to multiplayer games that will try and sell you a bunch of maps or characters. Buy a used copy, pay extra to play it and you still are missing tons of content. I think these passes would be better if they didnt restrict anything for used customers, but instead reward people who buy new. give the people who buy new something free, like the first DLC maps/characters for free or something. But instead of rewarding loyal customers they are just punishing people who want to save some money.
"EVERY SINGLE USED GAME WAS ONCE BOUGHT AS A NEW GAME TOO. A game needs to sell a new copy before it is sold as used. Its not like a dev never recieved money for that used game you bought. the original owner paid them for it. " Right but thats not the reason why Sony, EA etc are doing this. The reason is that it is a lost sale. Say that game was purchased new and then traded in 10 times. The Devs only receive the money once, however, if there were no preowned market, they would have received more money as all those traded copies would be new ones.
M$ is rich. yet they charge 60 a year for online. and u still gotta pay for extra online services. and here Sony charging 10 buck for one game. oh geez. just work around the system just like how u are doing now.
The consumers definitely need to stand up for themselves. There is no such thing as a lost sale (you can't lose a sale that didn't exist), only lost potential which you could never be sure of. If I buy a game new for $60 and sell it used to someone else for $30, then they sell it to someone else for $25, and it gets sold to a fourth person for $20. There was no lost sale. It's no different than a family of four all pitching in to buy a game. Only one $60 purchase was made but four people get to enjoy the game. Or I guess when a guy goes out to buy the next madden and invites 5 buddies over that is 5 lost sales that EA didn't get right? The logic is ridiculous actually. The next thing you know, there should be a $5 fee everytime someone adds a player 2 or player 3 controller to a multiplayer game to make sure everyone contributed to the developer. You know I tend to buy 9 out of every 10 games new at retail and I sell the disappointing games. The money I receive actually goes back into purchasing a new game which trumps the argument that the developers don't get money from used games. It may not be a return of profit from their own game but the industry as a whole still benefits from the consumer being able to cycle used game cash back into the industry toward new games. Because sometimes if I wouldn't have got back a little cash from my used games I would have just rented a game instead of buying it as a day one retail purchase.
Exactly. Why is it EA does it and everyone still buys their games? Why is it the worst thing now that Sony has decided to do it? Where is the boycott MK and BF3 instead of putting money in their pockets? @ PhilipLarkin it's not goingto kill everything. You can still buy a game with sales, discounts and special things like greatest hits. You don't NEED to buy it second hand and you will still get the pass. Not to metion this doesn't apply to every MP game on the PS3.
agreed completely LordMe.. this is something everyone should be expecting because developers and publishers have to get paid..
@LordMe They've been alive for the past 20+ years with the used gaming industry. Rather than allocating their own funds when increasing resources, they prefer to take that funding more away from consumers. Do you really think in the progressive long-run, that they could have come up with more ways, instead of trying to tap into areas that lasted for YEARS on end, and "somehow" it's now an issue within the past 3 years? The funny thing that gets me is that some people just accept these ideas that companies push without any question nor thought, and yet say others are "short-sighted". It isn't clear cut, and quite frankly a few agrees/disagrees on this site doesn't change that. They feed a lot of ill-information to uninformed people, and then just let it spread like wildfire. They increase their own usage of resources, and expect consumers to just vault into their arms without looking back. Rather than for some companies to moves around their resources, they draw away from the consumers'. The thing is that there's some ways they can make "passes" work, but right now they're going on a down road where it just gives the image to a consumer about "paying more for more features", instead of "What is more beneficial". Also i'm tired of people using the line for "The devs get paid". It's the higher ups that do 9/10 times and get the bonuses, not the people that did the major grunt work.
@radphil Games are more expensive to make now. The better a game looks and the bigger it is, the more people need to be working on it. Companies can barely stay above water sometimes. That's why you hear about 60% of a developer's staff getting cut as soon as a game is released. People who buy used games are not helping developers recoup their costs. They are usually just overpaying a company like Gamestop for nothing. If you don't want to pay full price you can wait a month for the price to drop, or pay the $5 (or whatever) to play a used game online. I rent games and I have no problem with this for first party games (I never play rentals online anyway). I would gladly help a first party studio out if it means they can make more games for me. If you buy from a used game store you are being ripped off anyway, and if you game trade you should be able to spare the $5. People are always talking about games going digital anyway. Well this is the first step.
@Cenobia Basically what I'm stating is that there's other ways to tap into the used market-> new without making it seem like they're penalizing people who buy cheaper/used.
You remembered Game Republic, a true gamer :) (not that no one else is though...)
Game Republic shut down because their games were very niche. Not even all their games were released in the US (like dark mist which was fun) and such. If Sony or they would have hyped Folklore and brought coded soul over (which used FS) they could have stayed alive. I would love to see this done away with mostly because 1 used sale =/= no profit. Lets look at Resistance because it's the topic at hand. I never played one or two and so my interest for three is nearly null. Resistance 1 is 20 new on amazon + 2 is 21 on amazon. This would be cheaper to buy the new combo pack thing (which wont get them any money either -rolls eyes-), but thats still 40. Now if I go to gamestop I can buy Resistance 1 for 9.99. This could result in me buying two and then later three. However if they do away with that then I'm not going to buy 3, 4, etc.
too add on resistance 3 isnt gathering much hype and in this case this press is not a good thing.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha That's all I got to say.
Support good developers. Buy new games!
ill support them, with hugs and kisses. not buying their games new. ill buy used because this shit Sony is forcing on them is bad for us gamers.
so youll buy em usedbcause you want to buy the online pass seperate?
Dude ur comment made no sense at all as it hit all kinds
i dont play console games online mate. the experience is no where near that i can get on my PC.
Thats what i do. But only if the game is worth the 60 Bucks.s Example\ 1. Marvel Vs Capcom wasnt worth the launch price so i waited till it dropped to 30 euros before i bought it. 2. Resistance Fall of Man wasnt worth the current price so i bought it used. 3. Elder Scrolls 5 will provide over 200 hours of gameplay so to me its worth new. 4. FF13 was expensive new so i bought it used. Whether i buy a game new or use depends if its worth the price new. If it isnt then i buy used. But one thing that i will never do is pirate.
Doesn't bother me I don't rent games I buy and play them. I do however feel bad for the people who do indeed rent games to try them out...
I hear you. There should be a system where the developers get some $ from used games. Same for renting games, if you rent a game some of that $ should go towards the developers who made the game. Why this has not come to pass I don't know. I buy new games as opposed to used b/c I am older now and able to make cash but when I was younger I did buy used games a lot back than, not enough money to buy new games. I don't have as many trophies as some of the gamers out there b/c I buy new games so I haven't played as many games. Something needs to be worked out.
No, developers do not need to get money from used game sales, they already get enough from new game sales. Do you see car manufactures b*tching about used car sales and that they need some profit off it? This world is becoming more greedy everyday and I hope Sony,EA become bankrupt so it will prove that trying to rape your customers of money doesn't work.
The developers do get money from used games, $60 per copy!!! They also get money from rentals, guess how much?? $60 per copy!! I'm tired of hearing about developers complaining about used sales money, especially since every used copy that you see was purchased at retail price. And for what ever reason the 1st buyer wanted their money back. Yeah, GameStop is F'd UP and they'll screw you everytime!!! But GameStop will do way more than what the developers will do if your not satisfied with their games. As a consumer I should at least have the right to sell what I buy if its not satisfactory to sell it as much as I see fit. Especially since I've been burned in the past by the "The HypeTrain" And when you purchase a game for $60, the developers keep that money forever but the online gameplay that you paid $60 for, will not be there when they shut the servers OFF!! And that's the digital TRUTH!!!
is this the same as what EA did last year ? to bad cause it stopped me renting games and of course will not buy the games
THIS ^ is what this stupid pass does. It stops you from renting. It also stops from buying used. I only buy games with multiplayer - GOOD multiplayer. I have spent too much money on single player games just to beat them once or twice never to play them again because I am too busy playing online with my friends. This game pass only affects me a little bit. I will buy uncharted and resistance. I was going to buy them NEW with or without the game pass. This does not bother me much. It hurts EA games more than Sony games with me. Starhawk is another purchase. So what? EA pass bothered me so much, because I usually rent sports games or fighting games. Sucks I can't use their online if I rent them... so I dont rent them anymore. If a game is good enough to play online, you get online. Its a pretty simple concept. Don't get mad at EA or Sony because shitholes like gamestop soak up 100% profit for used games. They probably make more money than the developers making the game... think about it: Gamestop gives you $15-25 for a two week old assasins creed. They turn around and put it back on the shelf for $55.00. Even if the game has no redeeming qualities to buy it new, I will spend the extra money for a new game just to spite Gamestop. They caused this, not EA or Sony. Pirates are also to blame, but to a lesser extent.
This shouldn't stop anyone from buying it pre-owned. You obviously don't shop there, so you wouldn't know, but GameStop charges $13 less + 10% off for PowerUp members for EA games currently to be still be cheaper even with the online pass. They'll most likely do this with Sony. Also, pre-owned games aren't killing anyone. If I buy new, I buy new within the first month, because I am that excited about the game. When it's a year or two down the road, I buy pre-owned because it's harder to find new and I like discounts, and I'm not made of money.
@danielle007 New games that are 3+ months old are not hard to find. Amazon carries almost all of them, and I'm sure any other online retailer does too. You could just pre-order (even by just a couple of days) to get credits and save those up to "buy" other games. You could also game trade on sites like gametz.com which costs nothing. You are only ripping yourself off by buying pre-owned. Their discount card is just a marketing trick to make you think you are getting a deal when you are still getting ripped off. They pay $15 for an almost new game, sell it to you for $55 minus your small discount and make a boatload for doing nothing.
so whats this psn pass thing?
If I remember correctly, it's a pass to unlock more options on the mutiplayer side. you can still play mutiplayer but some of the options will be locked(higher ranks, weapons, etc.)
"Sony isn't making life for the rental industry any easier." Why on earth would they want to do that?
in the consumers defense, you really can't tell if the game will be good or not so that's why we rent games. $60 is a lot of money for a new game and you will regret spending money on a game that turns out to be a piece of crap. "why not read reviews and play the demo?" well, sometimes the demo can miss represent the game and some games don't have demos and you can't really trust some reviews anymore because there is a certain element of opinion in the reviews.
What a dumb excuse. If you really want to see the full game for yourself you can just wait a few days and check it on YouTube.
Can't you just admit that you want something for as little money as possible? You probably don't care one bit if the devs get your money or not as long as you get to play the game.
Perhaps you're poor, and if so I forgive you for renting, but don't act like it's because you want to make sure the game is good before deciding. Just do some research! It really isn't that hard.
Sprud you don't know who I am so don't even assume things. Also, watching it on youtube is not the same as getting a feel for the gameplay. I often buy new games but I do rent them in case I'm not sure of the gameplay.
Sony or any other publisher shouldn't have any intention of earning money once they initially sell the product. No other industry does, why should the gaming industry be a special case.
"Sony or any other publisher shouldn' t have any intention of earning money once
they initially sell the product. No other industry does, why should the gaming
industry be a special case."
car dealerships earn money or repairs for "dealer only parts"
that is after they sold you a complete car....but they of course do not make any money on that right?
That's different, though? You get the car, and if it breaks, you get the parts from them to fix it. If my game disk breaks, then sure, I'll buy another game, but other than that, don't expect to get more $$ off of me for using the entire product that I paid for, how I like to. If I want to let my friend borrow it, then I should be able to. If I want to sell my game to someone, then I should be able to sell the entirety of the game. In your example, if I want to sell my car, I'd be selling the entire thing. I wouldn't be forced by the original car dealer to keep the engine. But when I sell that game that I have - that I bought and paid for and own, I'd be making that person buy a huge chunk of it themselves.
Agree, entirely. Once we buy a developer's intellectual property what we do with afterwards is OUR prerogative - a prerogative we've PAID for. If we sell it on, then someone else sells it on, why should the recipient of that product pay the developer a cut to enjoy it? The second-hand market is everywhere - cars, homes, commodities... yet videogames developers all of a sudden feel their line of work is different, and that they should rake in money after initial sale. Well, here's an idea: talk to your publishers about making the cost of new games fairer to consumers, or talk to your resellers about earning a percentage from used sales. Failing that, make games of a standard we'll willingly pay £50 a time for brand new. Don't bite the hands that feed you or you'll soon starve...