A shootout between 720p and 1080p Marantz Projectors. They were projecting on a 130" screen at 12-13' away and people were mistaking the 720p projector to be the 1080p one. In essence, the difference was negligible.
There has to be a threshold at which the human eye can no longer tell the difference. I'm not saying that the current sets reach that threshold, but I know that I find it hard to tell the difference when comparing displays.
First the truth comes out about the supposed power of the cell, and now the 1080p lies will be uncovered, Sonys entire sham is being revealed. Sony is the most vocal electronics manufacturer of all when it comes to 1080p being truHD and all that crap. It has been known for a year amoungst clear thinking non-brainwashed folk that 1080p is vapor ware.
-Nobody said ANYTHING about the Cell. (Those were just the voices in your head)
Nobody even mentioned Sony (You're obsessed)
Sony did not invent 1080p (It's just an industry standard)
1080p is not only NOT "vaporware", as you ignorantly put it, 1080p has nothing to DO with specific hardware OR software. It is a STANDARD. A NUMBER. God, your lack of insight is staggering.
This was merely a test to see how people reacted to the differences between two varying qualities of HD outputs.
I personally think the test should NOT have been handled by projectors.
Jeremy, you are in desparate need of help. This Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo console war should be the least of your concerns. Seek help immediately.
Armyless, I am curious why you think that projectors should not have been used? I'm not being combative, I'm just interested in your opinion.
As some added commentary to the article, I used to own the Marantz VP12-S4 and now own the Optoma HD81 and I can tell you that the quality of the optics on the Marantz went a long way towards compensating for the lower resolution. I'm throwing a 120" screen and viewing from 13' away so I'm fairly close and when I focused I could make out the pixels on the Marantz but can't manage regardless of how hard I try with the Optoma. As with all sets, the size/distance ratio is what should determine the resolution you require and really, the most important aspect of any set, bar none, is the static contrast ratio. So many people waste so much money just because they are spec whores.
yea m8 I got a 1080p tv and cant tell the difference when the hd-dvds are in 1080p or 720 p they both look AMAZING.
I think 1080p is really more a marketing gimmick by television companies and electorni retail stores to get people to buy the more expensive product rather than spending half on a 720p set. I have a 720p projector shooting on a 92" DIY screen and feel that really don't need 1080p because I mostly use it for HD Cable and doing some gaming on it. As of right not there are no HD channels that broadcast 1080p and 720p coming out of my 360 looks amazing already! I'll probably end up getting one though when its time to upgrade and 1080p projectors are under $1k..
Edit- Who disagreed with me? LOL! Everything I said was correct because it pertains to me only! This site is run by Sony Fanboys! You can't really blame them though.. When you can't play games on your console and get sick of watching movies there's nothing else to do but roam the internet trying to feel better about spending $600 on a blu ray player when they wanted to buy game console!
but maybe they don't think 1080p is a marketing gimmick?
Thanks who ever posted this. Some of these sony duds think that 1080p is the holy grail of television but the fact is that it's no better than 720p. At a normal viewing distance, both resolutions are pretty much the same. The human eye cannot detect all the extra pixels at a normal viewing distance.
The Sony 1080p hype train sure did sucker the sony fanboys tho'.
I'm sure this will get declined by the sony fans because it makes them look stupid.
I wouldn't say it was just sony more like the big electornic stores and televsion manufacturers! But then again Sony is the leading LCD sellers in the market i believe... You know what's even crazier is that supposedly you are able to tell the difference between 1080p and 720p once you get 50" and up screen size and these guys weren't even able to tell the difference in 130" screen!
Now now.. we should make the Sony Fanboys feel better about their $600 console! Its okay Sony fanboys 1080p is the best thing to come out since the invention of the wheel! And that 720p is like watching VHS resolution compared to 1080p... We'll just keep living our lives and when Sony tells that we can take a crap then you can go ahead and take a crap!
dude that was people 'opinion', if you look at fact (yes there is a thing called FACT) 1080p has twice the pixels than 720p, there for twice the quality.
the difference btween them is the same as the difference between standard TV and 720p TV. are you saying you cant see the difference betwwen standard and HD tv pictures?
tell you what mate, you stick with your cheap ass tv and ludicrous ideas if it makes you feel better and ill stick with my good tv and knowlegde of what im talking about.
...your making yourself sound more stupid by the comment. Once again....THE EYES CAN ONLY SEE SO MUCH!!!! Answer my question....according to your logic....are you saying your eyes is able to see the difference between 20million pixels vs. 30million pixels???? OF COURSE NOT! It has been proven that 720p and 1080p looks the same when viewing at a normal distance.
Don't worry....your not the only one to get suckered by the 1080p hype train.
the human eye sees about 250 mega pixel or something stupid, now if you cant tell the difference in1 and 2 mega pixel maybe you need your eyes testing.
what ever you believe, there is a difference between the 2, maybe you cant see it, but i can clearly.
hell even the GT5 developer said they tried 720p and within 5 secs the said NO it has to be 1080p, now why do that if it has no effect?
The resolution of our eyes is 12 vertical lines per arc angle (one line per arcminute for 20/20 acuity) times 2. Our minimum resolvable element size at 8 feet distance is about 0.065", or about twice the size of the pixels of a 50" 1080 image from 8 feet away! Put bluntly, from 8 feet away while watching a 50 inch plasma TV, the human eye is generally incapable of reliably distinguishing any detail finer than that shown on a true 720p display.
While some still cant manage. 640p is close enough though.. since you cant tell.
Wil4hire, you're fired.
The 640p thing is getting old.
Just imagine if the PS3 had games in 640p it might sell some games.. /srcsm
640p has sold **12 times** the amount that motorstorm has.
640p has sold that amount in 4 WEEKS
640p seems to be more popular than waiting for 'teh potentialz'
If the PS3 needs more attach perhaps they should forget about cell and bluray and just sell more games per console.
Just sounds like sour grapes on your behalf.
Why not be happy for the 4 million 360 640p fans who are to busy in halo3 multiplayerheaven than to worry about screen resolution?
oooh maybe that's where sony went wrong. Too much bashing and outlandish hype.
640P wasn't the selling point.
640P was something they hoped no one would figure out.
640P was something they tried to avoid in every single interview when they were asked what the resolution of the game was going to be.
If 640P was so great, like you're implying that it is, then why were they trying so hard to hide it? Why was it such big news that it wasn't even 720P?
Bleyd, did you completely miss my point or what?
I posted that because 640p is only mentioned by trolls to spread more negativity. why is it so important for ps3 trolls to comment negatively? The game is awesome and it sells awesome.
Tall poppy syndrome? sour grapes?
I am just sick to death of 'chicken littles' trying to fault the 360 and halo3. jeez get over it. Go and play warhawk.
So did you get my sarcasm?
oooops. no you didn't.
For a projector, lens and scaler > resolution even with a 1080p projector, if your lens and scaler isn't as good, the image wont be any better(in this case, the 1080p was an older model), projector =/= TV(LCD/Plasma). For TV, 1080p difference IS more apparent on 50"+ TVs. But most people's isn't that big, 720p will serve well enough.
I know you are reffering to HALO 3, thats nothing to do with the console, infact the Xbox 360 has better upscaling than the PS3 that is a fact because the 360 has an actual upscaling chip, the PS3 does not.
The other thing is if the game can still look amazing but has to sacrifice something no one else can see then why not?
Didnt Sony go on about 1080p and how awesome it is? Then why are nearly ALL PS3 games ONLY in 720p?
I would be careful complaining about resolution something which many people have difficulty in seeing a difference when their glorious black shiny box has very few games that are of any quality in the first place.
There are at least 5 1080p games on the PS3 and they are awesome in graphics...the Xbox 360 has no 1080p games...fact...and I am talking 1080 native..
Fact #2 is that the PS3 has a much better DVD upscaller to 1080p than the Xbox 360...this has been proven fact by many sources...
Now i agree with you than the Xbox 360 has a good upscaller for games. I agree 100 percent with this...
ummm, Virtual Tennis is 1080p native on both systems. Well i think that throws your whole argument in the trash. And games that offer a 1080p option have run better on the 360 vs the PS3 "Another fact" like games like NBA Street Homecourt.
Actually there is NO chip that does your scaling for you. You might be thinking about "Anna" but sorry, it's merely a video output chip - a means of transferring the framebuffer into all of the different signals: composite, s-video, RGB SCART, component and VGA.
Scaling in the 360 is done through software.
Isn't the photos a little low-res to see that for ourselves? I mean now both of them are being downscaled to the same resolution.
Anyways that the people sitting there couldn't tell the difference says enough, 1080p, how important is it really?
I canm easily tell the difference... Although, I'm a Bravia 1080P owner, granted... anyone can tell the difference who's actually had and experienced full 1080P. I'm also glad they didn't reveal the top and bottom rez, either.
1080P is an incredible leap above 720P, folks. Don't kid yourselves.
All the people saying theres no difference appear to have 720p TV's.
I also have a BRavia 1080p and while the difference between 1080p and 720p isnt as great as 480p tp 720p, its still a very noticeable difference.
Obvisiously not as much if you're only watching TV or upscale Xbox games you douches. You need to be watching 1080p content. Ohhhhhhh, now I get it.
The leap in resolution (number of pixels) from 720p to 1080p is comparable to the leap from 480p to 720p. Not exactly the same, but damned close.
The difference really depends on the size (and clarity) of your HDTV, and how far away from the TV you watch.
See the leap in resolution for yourself
At least in the first pic. Just look at the water near the boat. You can see the muddy water next to the pier in the bottom image. The top one just looks like regular water. There is also a lot of extra details in the trees and boat on the bottom one as well. The next two images aren't very detailed so its much harder to tell.
Edit: If that really is the case then I stand corrected. But honestly there must be something wrong with the 1080p projector if it can't even match the 720p one. Is it a much older model?
the bottom is the 720p and the one on top the 1080! http://www.avsforum.com/avs...
I have to laugh at your comments, I have a Samsung 40inch 1080i hdtv in my room, my parents have the latest Samsung 1080p 52inch hdtv downstairs, i done a comparison with the 360 and PS3 - the PS3 with hdmi 1.3 and the hdtv downstairs has hdmi 1.3 and guess what? minimal difference its not a difference like going from 480 to 720 now thats a difference you can notice easily.
It is always interesting to see people claiming to see a difference between a 720p image and a 1080p image when all they have is a 533p picture for it :p
The posted photo does not even come close to the natural 720p screenresolution, how anyone would be able to claim any differences based uppon that is beyond my understanding. Based on the report 26 of 30 people had no difficulty seeing which projector was which, only 4 failed. If there was no difference ~50% should have mixed up the pictures.
I would need to see a picture with a resolution of at least 1080p to be able to decide on the matter, better double the res to rule out camera artifacts and software glitches. With the lowres pictures here it is plain impossible.
though i support their conclusion: it is better to go for a 720p projector with a great lens setup and a great scaler and picture processor than to go for a 1080p model that has only mediocre lens setup and picture processor.
But ain't that true for everything ? You get a difference by buying a $2000 32" TV compared to a $2000 50" TV. There is a reason why stuff is cheaper, and that being: it IS cheaper (in quality).
PS: the bottom picture is the 720p one, as confirmed by the mods at avs
1080p crowd - 1080 is better because it's more than double the pixel resolution.
720p and below crowd - It's not because group X can't tell the difference in Y comparison.
One side presents a fact, the other, a fallacious bandwagon argument.
It's this simple folks: 1080p is a decidedly higher resolution than 720p. It's like saying an 8 megapixel camera takes higher resolution photos than a 5 megapixel one. Hold comparisons and 90% of people won't be able to tell you which is which, but they may make a decision on which takes a better photo, and it very well may be that 5 camera.
The difference ultimately lies with the developers. If 1080p is taken advantage of and produces great results, then hey, they've done their job. 720, same scenario. If you yourself CAN'T tell the difference, then go with a 720p set. If you can and it MATTERS, get a 1080p. Simple. Either crowd has no right to tell the other that they're wrong for favoring the other.
its not right to tell some one which to favour. but regardless of what people claim/believe 1080p offers a superior picture quality to 720p. even tho some seem not to be able to notice this, to me, its black and white, like the difference between standard tv signal (480) and HD signal (720)....
what people are claiming is the same as saying there no difference between a 1 mega-pixel camera and a 2 mega-pixal camera. im just confused as to people can argue with fact and reason. oh well...
It's stupid to say that there's no difference between 720p and 1080p.
It's just as foolish to slander someone or call them wrong for preferring one over the other for subjective reasons.
to do a comparsion you would have to use the same source material if the source was natively 720p then the 720p projecor would look better because there is no scaling involded whice may create artifacts that would be more noticeable on the image on a large screen at 1080p
on my 360 I use a VGA cable as the 360 scales the image better than my TV does to 1366x768 even if it does miss 3 pixels from either side (don't like the way my tv stretches the image at 720p and its a panasonic viera)
should have read the article first that marantz 720p projector must have some awesome image processors in there
check it with your own eyes, not from the photos taken. ohh can you tell the different?
this just goes along with what many have said, including myself that its not a huge leap between these HD resolutions in terms of what the end user can see. Now of course if you say 1080i is no different or no better than 1080p you would be WRONG, and I dont knock anyone for wanting the "best", but I think its creditable to say that *most people won't be able to accurately pick out which is which under normal viewing conditions such as watching a HD movie on a 50" hdtv while sitting on a couch 6 ft away. It's somewhat subjective but honestly I dont think your avg joe could tell, either way I would welcome more tests like these to get a better idea one way or the other.
but strictly in that regard itself, in that it's popular. Subjective issues as such can only be dealt with on a case by case basis(such as reviewing a game or judging art), because everyone's perception could potentially be different.
A majority vote only proves one thing...that the majority sees it a particular way, NOT that they are correct. It will always vary from person to person, so although you are right in a sense, I think it's also fair to say that there's no one concrete answer for something so subjective. Throw monetary value and different technologies from competing companies into the foray and it becomes even more ambiguous.
To someone who may or may not notice the difference, the diff. is minimal, they want to save money, or any combination of the three, 720p may very well be preferable.
Conversely though, to an AV head, that 1080p may be a striking difference, and whether the 1080p set was $100 more or $1000 more, that PERCEPTION of quality and value is the deal-breaker for some.
Fair argument, though.
I am not sure if this has been mentioned in this article or debate here but DLP is the softest picture in 1080p sets. Go to your local electronics store and compare 720p vs 1080p sets for yourself. I have done this more times than I care to mention. I am an electronics nerd.
"IMO" (my opinion here and I am not stating this as a definitive fact for all) 1080p on a good set with 1080p material vs 720p material on a good 720p set? There is definitely a difference. Where I "will" agree is 720p displayed on a 1080p set isn't as much of a difference of 1080p displaying a 1080p source material.
I guess what I am trying to say but doing a poor job of is a 1080p tv set is superior to a 720p set but everything depends on the source material. There are just way too many equations that go into audio and video than just throwing up 2 projectors and trying to tell the differences.
BTW, most people can't tell the difference between 2k speakers and 20k($) speakers. It doesn't mean there isn't a difference or that other can't hear the differences.
And for the record I own DLP's (projector and 56' Samsung), LCD's and a Plasma so I am not bashing DLP.
Most of the people who say otherwise are people who can not afford a 1080p set...and we all know 1080p sets are not that expensive now...you can get a 1080p projector for $2200 that will show a 100 inch picture!!! You can get a Sony rear projection 1080p 60 inch LCD for around $2000. You can get a 42 inch 1080 LCD flat panel for around $1300.
Sure a 42 inch 720p\1080i set is around $800 but if you really look and do your own testing you can see that there is a difference...but you have to use Bluray, or HD-DVD using HDMI 1.3a connections and cables to see the difference. I use to think there was not that much difference until i just went to my friends house who just got a new 73 inch DLP 1080p HDTV and i was like damn that is totally awesome. I only have a 720p/1080i sony 60 inch...its good...but it does not compare to the latest 1080p sets.
As long as you have HDTV you are good to go....(720p\1080i) but if you can afford it go with a 1080p.
1080p is not a sony thing is a industry standard thing...and remember the only this that is 1080p native is bluray and HD-TV and some PS3 games. So if you do not have any of these you will never see True 1080p HD.
in the pic you can clearly see what looks good, and what garbage is.
and I have a 1080p DLP. The main reason I got the 50" DLP was because of the 10,000 Contrast ratio and the price was $1500. I got it just for the PS3 and I don't think 1080p is all it's cracked up to be. I went to lots of store and A/V shops to see the diff and I never did. You can read specs all you want but you have to look for your self. Maybe 1080p needs to be refined more.
and saw the same crap feed video that everyone else sees. Almost every store screws that up.
I hae seen Blu-ray Hd-dvd air feeds all in 1080p. The last superbowl was in 1080p. It is my opinion. Just face it 1080p is not that big of a deal to warrant the price. It should be night and day.
The difference in 720p to 1080p is the same as the difference in 480p to 720p. (see image below)
1080p is clearly better.
Get it? Clearly? (nm bad joke)
Edit: You can get a great 1080p 42" - 47" TV for $1200 to $1600. That's a good deal and cheaper than many inferior 720p TV's.
Edit #2: Also read this article. http://www.carltonbale.com/... Rest easy that your 50" Sammy DLP was a good purchase, unless you were an early adopter and had to mortgage your house (or firstborn) to buy onw.
720p is grainier than 1080p, pic is sharper on 1080p, and colors are richer in 1080p. if u guys can't afford it, no problem!!! wait till it gets cheaper, but please stop this stupid argument!!!
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