Smarthouse: Sony who announced a $3 Billion plus loss last week is pinning their future, on a brand new processor which some are speculating will lead to a new Playstation 4.
Teh Cell will prevail
So will Sony, and possibly Microsoft. Nintendo....... ish. I feel like Nintendo are starting to try too hard.
meh just double SPE's ? Not buying it. Give me hits rumor.
i see it this way sony has the cell and bluray. they took the hit this year. nintendo next console could have bluray ,and a touch screen and its HD so it wil be expensive plus who is it for. look at the 3ds its adds with a little bit more power and pop up book 3D is what i call it and it coast an arm and a leg BTW 3ds is a flop they want to sell 16 million by this time next year and they are not near 4 million, japan didn't take to it at all and wii in japan is DEAD(i swear look at the numbers) microsoft needs a new CPu,GPu Bluetooth, wifi day one, with will cost mony and either go bluray or make a new format either way its cost money next get sony will win because they took the hit this gen by bring out new tech. this is their first system with a true OS running at all times and a first gaming network so it only gets better
modern higher end cpus have well over a billion transistors. the cell in the ps3 has 230 million. therefore the spu count in the ps4 will be quadrupled at least. it will probably be a quad ppu 32 spu updated iteration of the cell with more local store for each spu and probably branch prediction in the ppus and more cache. probably will run at 4ghz+. ps4 will probably have 2-3 gigs of high performance main ram and a gig of gddr5 video memory. the gpu will probably be based on either nvidias fermi architecture or something newer. first party titles will most likely all render 1080p native at at least 30 fps. there is no way sony is going to ditch the cell architecture now. all the devs are just starting to wrap their heads around it. its best to keep a familiar development environment. a cell/fermi combo would be a parallel processing powerhouse. we might even see some simple ray traced games.
Well a non-upgraded simply extended Cell would equate to 16 SPES = 16 threads. If its upgraded though its very likely we will see different numbers at least adding up to 12 threaded CPU or greater. I am expecting them to at least match Nintendo's rumored 6 to 12 threaded CPU. I expect the design to mirror IBM's Power7 CPU. Capable of 32 threads only to a slightly lesser extent. Maybe around 24-30. Never know. This site is not exactly well known. 16 SPEs makes this twice as fast as current Cell. Facepalm. Someone doesn't understand technology. @ guy above me. All possible. Likely 32 SPUs are not necessary to reach 32 threads though. 4 Ghz certainly possible. Both Cell, Power7 run up to 4.25 Ghz or so stable.< At 45nm A more efficient smaller CPU on 32 nm could run higher and be cooler. 1080 is going to be a standard for next gen. All games running at least 30 fps on this standard.
nobody including sony will use the cell next gen. Next gen you will see an arm powered ps4. Lower priced, lower powered, but profit for sony day 1.
This rumor is very likely IMO. I've been saying that the new Playstation will simply have a faster, more powerful processor, with more RAM and probably a bigger hard drive. If we are to believe the article, it would seem that the PS4 will use as much as it can from the PS3 in order to keep costs down so they're not losing money on developing an entirely new console.
First paragraph error "What we have been told is that Sony is working on a very fast processor which is being developed with IBM, who was the original architect with Sony and Toshiba of the Cell processor, which has been used by both Sony and Microsoft to power their gaming processors for nearly 10 years." "which has been used by both Sony and Microsoft to power their gaming processors for nearly 10 years." "which has been used by both Sony and Microsoft to power their gaming processors for nearly 10 years." "which has been used by both Sony and Microsoft to power their gaming processors for nearly 10 years." "which has been used by both Sony and Microsoft to power their gaming processors for nearly 10 years." Sony and Microsoft uses cell processor for 10 years? LOL!! This article is a fail from the first paragraph!
@The Killer I lol'd a little myself seeing it took this long for someone to post that. +bub
Thank you Killer for posting that. I can't believe no one caught that. Definitely makes you question the credibility of the whole article. I definitely think Sony will use an upgraded cell for the ps4 with more ram and more bandwidth and of course a much more powerful gpu. The possibilities with that combination are very great.
its less about the cell, and more about how much memory (ram) they will put in the system..splitting the 512MB of ram in the ps3 is the one thing that most 3rd party devs have a problem with, especially when the console first came out
This Article is full of fail HAHAHA
Cell has the playstation on lock get it cell is the future
If Cell+ Rsx+ 512mb ram can make U2/U3/KZ3/FF13/LA noire/ GT5 / GOW/ Infamous2 .....etc What will be the Power of the Upgraded Cell ? Tradtional Specs are crap & easy to hack. We can see more exclusives if they keep cell.
ignorance. if it was why isn't intel releasing larrabee as a cpu(its basically a cell that's much easier to code for and that's because it uses x86 cores). The cell architecture has weaknesses but you dont seem to know any of them any i7 or even i7 quad core will destroy the ps3s cell+the 360s gpu put together.
@aia12 Larabee and the CELL are 2 entirely different things. Larabee is literally a GPGPU while the CELL is a CPU with only 1 core, 8 Synergistic Processing Elements that can do GPU kind of jobs but only 1 at a time and 1 PPE to maintain the job queue of the SPE's. CELL can't really replace a GPU unless it had like 50 SPE's and that would be a nightmare to code. Each one of the SPE's needs to be coded individually and that's why the CELL can't be used in conventional computers. It would be just too hard and inconvenient, specially for multi-tasking with only 1 core and no SPE optimization. The entire OS would need to be rewritten for it to take advantage of the architecture. And by architecture I mean the SPE's... The reason the PS3 struggled at the beginning was ----------------------- edit: And let me add that the CELL still outperforms the best i7 that Intel has to offer right now in 2011. Believe it or not. Don't want to believe? Then google it yourself. CELL = 218 GFLOPS Intel Core i7 980x Extreme Edition = 107.55 GFLOPS
True, cell outperforms PC processors in single float operations. But for games and general computing, double float operations are more important. In that area the I7 leaves skitmarks all over the cell (I7 = 70, cell = 15.)
@peaceful jelly The cell will not outperform an i7. you are simply wrong. Perhaps in 1 or 2 structured benchmarks, but overall the I7 will absolutely destroy the cell in every category. Also Gflops is not a reliable source of determinate speed, that is a theoretical number that describes bandwidth on paper with very basic vector based calculations. The real killer is in IPC (instructions per clock) something that intel has been focusing all of their energy on improving. and don't get me started on the 2nd generation Intel I processors the i5 2500K is faster than all previous i7s but the 980X. the i7 2600k is faster in most tests. has hyper-threading and absolutely crushes all current GPU solutions for transcoding video. my I5 2500k takes about 8.5 minutes to transcode a full movie to 1080p 23MBPS my Ati radeon hd 6970 currently takes around 13 mins. both of which are faster than the cell based trancoding of the WinFast PxVC1100 card that has a cell processor on it with comparable conversion settings.
I think it's a great idea to use the cell processor for a PS4. The PS3 cell was too hard to develop games for because they were rushed in development of the chip and didn't talk to the software side when developing the chip. Sony also made the mistake of dividing the memory into 256mb for the processor and 256 for the graphics instead of sharing the memory. Hopefully Sony will correct the problems they made with the PS3 cell and make a PS4 cell that's easier to develop for.
``and let me add that the CELL still outperforms the best i7 that Intel has to offer right now in 2011` LMAO! Um...no, just no... reedbananaboat is right. There are simply too many people on this site that havn`t a clue about hardware.
And cue PC fans....
@reedbananaboat: You are aware the SPURs chip on that winfast card only has 4 SPEs, has slower memory and runs at less than half the clockspeed of the PS3's Cell? So you're comparing something that is at best 1/4 as fast as a full Cell processor. An upgraded Cell with the same transistor budget as an Intel Sandybridge would have 4 PPUs and 32 SPEs. It would crush the i7 in many, many tasks.
The win-fast card has the ability to access the CPU of the computer to assist in transcoding. should be more than enough for a comparison seeing as how "the cell has 218 gflops". and btw the other four are still present but modified in order to make it more efficient in decode/encode h.264 and mpeg-2 "Toshiba replaces two SPE in the Cell processor for a hardware MPEG-2 decoder and encoder. In addition, two more SPEs have been replaced for hardware H.264 decoder and encoder. Furthermore, the Power Processing element (PPE) has been eliminated and the FlexIO has been replaced for a PCI Express bridge for interconnection to the host. The result of such changes allow the SpursEngine to be have an integrated full HD MPEG-2 encoder and decoder, a full HD H.264 (MPEG-4 AVC) encoder and decoder, and more power efficient than the Cell architecture. "
So you agree it's a meaningless comparison. Good.
I wish Sony goes with a conventional CPU + GPU set up for the PS4 instead of using a Cell processor. Graphics and performance won't take a hit, as current CPU's are much more well suited for gaming when compared to a Cell. Shoddy ports will be less frequent, as third party studios won't have to spend years on researching how to work with the Cell, a luxury Sony first party developers have. I think, overall, that at the end of the day it'll be the best for developers and consumers. The only real downside I can see is PS3 backwards compatibility issues.
@Thrillhouse - It would be madness to drop all the R & D that has gone into Cell now. I mean all the Dev tools are in place, they just evolve over time. Most devs are starting to get to grips with Cell now. Cell is a very scaleable CPU, and hugely capable CPU. By the time PS4 releases Cell could be on a gen 4/5 Cell, smaller, faster, cooler, less power comsumption and cheaper to manufacture. So re-using Cell+Blu-ray could help Sony see major returns from there billions of investment.
Oh, it's undoubtable that all of the knowledge would no longer be applicable, and that's definitely unfortunate. I just think that it would be easier in the long run to use a conventional CPU, and this would be very beneficial to both devs and gamers.
If developers don't understand the Cell architecture by the time the PS4 comes out, then we can truly say they're lazy devs. Come on. So, if and when the PS4 uses a Cell architecture, I don't want to hear developers saying, "Oh, it's too hard to develop for the PS4..." and all that crap. If the PS4 uses a Quad PPU, 32 SPU Cell architecture with an upgraded GPU and around 4GB of main RAM, with 1GB of Video RAM, then the thing is going to be a graphical monster!! It's probably going to make the PS3>PS4 a bigger leap than PS2 to PS3 was. Also, if they take the Cell approach again, backward compatibility won't be an issue this time around. It will easily be able to play ALL PS3 games, and possibly run them easier than the PS3 does. Plus, developers who have taken the time to learn the Cell architecture will be rewarded by the fact that they won't have to re-learn any new technology. I can't wait for the PS4!
I have only one thing to say. ARCHITECTURE CHANGES! If you don't like it, go back to 1985. And I'm happy it's being pressed forward. I can't wait for great affordable cell processors for my home cpu.
They most likely won't use a "conventional" CPU+GPU because of piracy. There is a reason to why the ps3 was the last console to be hacked, and they constantly find ways to block said hacks. The CELL-processor plays a part in that.
@Thrillhouse That's the problem with your generation... "oh it's too hard, I'm a wuss and I give up...." In short the easiest solution isn't always the best solution in the long term, technology demandes evolution in order to advance and it's not by sticking to the same model like a sheep that things will get better. sheeps these days... pfft... nuff said
Hear what some of the guys above me are saying. I truly do. But BUT the devs arent lazy because they didnt "figure out" teh cell. I wouldnt be surprised if alot of devs didnt expect teh cell to last past this gen when everyone else uses the standard cpu/gpu. So its my belief that even if Sony uses teh cell again there will be reluctant devs out there. I mean its not like the teh cell has taken the world by storm or anything.
Over time shoddy ports will almost disappear anyway as Cell becomes more common and people learn it. I dont see why Cell arcitecture cant be used on ps4. Just uppgrade it, new PPU, new SPU's etc. Devs have already spent so much on mastering it so just letting it go when it obviously carries a grand potensial is sort of lame? Guerilla, SM, ND, PD +++ Even some third party devs; IG, Crytek, Suckerpunch, Dice, kojima and so on. Regular CPU design better than cell? IDK about that. Its easier, yes. but over time Cell will be easy too.