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Submitted by dirigiblebill 1286d ago | news

L.A. Noire was once a six disc game

OXM UK: L.A. Noire on Xbox 360 covers a whopping three game discs, but according to Team Bondi writer and director Brendan McNamara, the count could have been "four or five or six". (L.A. Noire, PS3, Xbox 360)

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Prcko  +   1286d ago
cool,
now bring news about gta5
mikeslemonade   1286d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(20)
BeastlyRig  +   1286d ago
Rockstar didn't make this game!

It's a developer named Team Bondi

Rockstar are just publishers who brand everything and take credit for it..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
Pumbli  +   1286d ago
Who do you think financed this project? Team Blondi themselves?

Rockstar has every right to put their logo on the game. Besides, every other publisher does it, why are you dissing Rockstar for it?
LolololRumz  +   1286d ago
The link you just posted lists both Rocktstar and Bondi as developers...
PhantomT1412  +   1286d ago
Besides, Team Bondi's CEO himself stated that R* helped them during the development with people and advices.

http://www.1up.com/previews...
#1.2.3 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(18) | Disagree(1) | Report
RowSand  +   1286d ago
but dan houser and sam houser involved in this game just like rdr, the brother who made all gta series
theonlylolking  +   1286d ago
Team Bondi pwns rockstar then.
guitarded77  +   1286d ago
@ Pumbli
Originally Sony financed the project when it was supposed to be a PS3 exclusive... that's how Agent came about.
Lifendz  +   1286d ago
Okay, so the lack of blu-ray held Team Bondi back. Semantics guy. Point remains: we lost material so a 360 version wouldn't be a six disc game.
MaxXAttaxX  +   1286d ago
@BeastlyRig
It's says right in your link "Developer(s) Team Bondi AND Rockstar Games.
lil Titan  +   1286d ago
lol 5 people disagreed that "I love my PS3" only n4g i swear
pepsilover_2007  +   1285d ago
lol see what happens when i say i love my wii XD lmao, people on here are really pathatic
jc48573  +   1285d ago
yea, so PATHATICA
Lirky  +   1286d ago
I think it wouldnt of been a problem depending on how if a game is linear and just keeps the person doing the objectives and it ends and dont allow you to free roam at the end then having 4-8 discs isnt a problem.
iamnsuperman  +   1286d ago
Agree just more of a inconvenience but nothing that bad. Lets just hope for 360 users GTA5 isn't like this but for this game not too bad
MariaHelFutura  +   1286d ago
8 discs is a problem. Lost Oddessy was 4 and that was alot, I couldn`t imagine having 8.
Perjoss  +   1285d ago
Once you install the discs its no problem as the load times are faster. In Lost Odyssey you only had to chance discs every 20 to 25 hours, for this to be a problem you need to be the ruler of planet Lazy.
xPhearR3dx  +   1286d ago
You can free roam at the end. Just quit your game, select cases from the main menu and select Streets of L.A. You're free to roam L.A looking for collectables as well as doing side missions.
aaabbbccc4324  +   1286d ago
@xPhearR3dx how big is the city compared to liberty city? are there parks with lots of trees?
can you free roam while not doing missions?and how many buidings can you enter?can you talk to random pedestrians?
dirigiblebill  +   1286d ago
Apparently you only have to swap discs twice in the whole campaign...
TheStonedSheep  +   1286d ago
Yes but that is after a MASSIVE install.
guigsy  +   1286d ago
Right but installing ANY game on the 360 is entirely optional.
TheStonedSheep  +   1286d ago
But with L.A. Noire the way they optimised it to fit on three discs means that unless installed it'll have awful loading times.
Eamon  +   1286d ago
Really? I don't think I've heard of that anywhere unless you've already tried the game, right?
TheStonedSheep  +   1286d ago
"For those who are looking for a smooth experience on the Xbox 360 version of L.A. Noire, installing the game’s data is the way to go. Installing all three discs will take up to 20GB of space as each of the discs are at 6.6GB. Following the successful data installation, players can notice that the game loads faster, lessen the in-game graphics pop-up and the screen tearing."

http://www.justpushstart.co...
Eamon  +   1286d ago
Yeah it loads faster but that doesn't say it was slow to begin with.

I always install my games on my xbox because it reduces the duration to like 1-2 seconds.
xPhearR3dx  +   1286d ago
@TheStonedSheep
That description fits almost every Xbox 360 game. Anytime you install a game to 360 it increases load times and the performance is better because you're running the game from your HDD instead of from the disc. Without installing L.A Noire the game still runs just fine. It's not like you NEED to install it or the experience will be crap or anything.
Dorwrath  +   1286d ago
@TheStonedSheep

The same applies to every 360 game. They run better, load faster when installed to the HDD.

The game runs just fine from the disk, it's just better to install it to the HDD. Also better for your console too.

The only exception to this was Halo 3 because when you installed Halo 3 it would slow down Multiplayer load times.
NoobJobz  +   1285d ago
Massive install? Are you joking? The first disc took about 3 minutes to install. Massive indeed.
xPhearR3dx  +   1286d ago
I've completed all the Patrol and Traffic cases and I'm on the first Vice case while still being on the first disc. Played for about 6 hours or so tonight. If the other 2 disc are as long as this one is so far, disc swapping will feel almost none existent.

EDIT: @TheStonedSheep Wrong. You don't need to install anything to play L.A Noire on 360. Just pop the first disc in and play. You only install if you want to, it's not mandatory.
#3.2 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(9) | Report | Reply
cyborg6971  +   1286d ago
Tell me how non existent it is during the disc exchange.
Peaceful_Jelly  +   1286d ago
So basically they are subtly confirming that the game was gimped?
sayonara89  +   1286d ago
Yep.
jessupj  +   1286d ago | Well said
And they'll recoup the the time 'wasted' on the cut content by selling it as DLC. Thank you microsoft.
blumatt  +   1286d ago
It Should have stayed a "six disc game" so no content was cut out!
Yeah, sadly, I think that might be true. I think they should have kept it 6 discs, so that no content was cut. Basically, it sounds like the game originally filled the entire bluray disc, which would equal around 5-6 DVD's. Then, it went multiplat, and they didn't want to have to pay the fees for the extra DVDs on the 360 version, so they cut content, which will later be given as dlc. It sucks.
No Way  +   1286d ago
@Peaceful_Jelly & Above -
"We're pretty pleased that we got it down to that in the end,"
he went on, attributing the feat to "miraculous compression".

Can you people not read? Read the article before you go start posting dumb shit.
They cut two cases out, do you really think two cases would span 3 discs? Hell no.
Games, just like movies, cut content out of their games all the time. It's not new.
#4.4 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(7) | Report | Reply
Colmshan1990  +   1286d ago
They cut two desks, not two cases.
As in, the Vice or Homicide desks.
That's a hell of a lot more than two cases.
rob6021  +   1285d ago
They should just gimp the game on the 360, and keep the PS3 with the original vision, then charge less for the 360 one. MS didn't let Rage go onto even 3 disks like ID wanted; so this isn't the first time.
#4.5 (Edited 1285d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Mikeyy  +   1285d ago
Thats unbelievable, that a Console manufacturer would have the right, to tell a Developer how many discs they may utilize for their game.

Microsoft is holding the industry back.
dirigiblebill  +   1286d ago
I wonder if we'll see actual boxed standalone expansions for this game, a la Ballad of Gay Tony, The Lost & Damned, etc.
Lirky  +   1286d ago
Lol that'll even be more Discs for 360 users i think it should stay digital Dlcs instead of disc dlcs.
Thrungus  +   1286d ago
That's a lot of discs!
Calvin_ISA  +   1286d ago
"I'll have a pound of nuts"
starcrafter  +   1286d ago
I love you for having seen kung pow xD
NiKK_419  +   1286d ago
Lol great movie. Damn, now I gotta go watch it again
madara0sama  +   1285d ago
"First, a joke. What do you get when you cross an owl with a bungee cord?"
....
"My ass. Nyah, haha, haha, haha, ENOUGH."
NoobJobz  +   1285d ago
Just want to let everyone know, everyone that replied got a bubble up from me just because Kung Pow is my fave. I don't care what system you prefer, if you like Kung Pow you are a friend.

Shirt Rippah!

I'm a man too you know! I go Peepee standing up!

I'm bleeding, making me the victor.
Mikeyy  +   1285d ago
@Calvin_ISA

"THATS A LOT OF NUTS!"

The chosen one looks at the man oddly.
Cloudberry  +   1286d ago
Yikes...
.
6 disc??? o_o
Optical_Matrix  +   1286d ago
Oh wow...FFXIII all over again
Zir0  +   1286d ago
Lots of sound and cut scenes will do that.
theBurnedMan   1286d ago | Spam
PatchowPietro  +   1286d ago
Thanks Xbox! Fuck more good games up! And i bet the sales are crap on Xbox because it doesn't have Call Of Duty in the title!
guigsy  +   1286d ago
Actually I still think it will sell more on the 360, most multiplatform titles do.
DigitalRaptor  +   1286d ago
C'mon now that just isn't true. It's one of those things that used to happen, but not so much anymore. And usually it's so close it's not worth mentioning.

The only games that really sell more on 360 are shooters and if any game is gonna sell more on 360 it'll be in the US/UK, but nowhere else.
#11.1.1 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(17) | Disagree(3) | Report
JamieLeeC93  +   1286d ago
Anyone that has both consoles will without doubt get this game for the PS3. Unless they're just full on retarded.
Eamon  +   1286d ago
How about playing the game first before complaining.
So they took out some missions for DLC. If it's another Rockstar length game which is between 20-30 hours long then what's the issue?
blumatt  +   1286d ago | Well said
So, it's okay for them to remove content that was originally gonna be FREE and make it paid dlc?? That's alright, huh? That's fine with you? You don't mind giving them money that originally you wouldn't have had to give them? The fact remains that had it remained exclusive, all the content would have remained intact, on the disc, and on ONE disc at that.

Removing content to sell later as dlc is very bad for us gamers, plain and simple. Now, if they release it later and it's FREE dlc, then that's another story. That would be more understandable. (But I'd still rather have it ALL on the disc, on one disc as well.)
YogiBear  +   1286d ago
@ blumatt

It wouldn't have been free. You would pay $60 for it.
Valkyre  +   1286d ago
Thank you Microsoft for chopping up another game!

And before someone posts something retarded, remember that MS forces every developer that makes a game more than 2 discs to pay royalty fees for every extra disc...

So thanks MS! :D
Kurisu  +   1286d ago
In reality, it's not Microsoft that "chopped up" this game. Remember, this game was originally a PS3 exclusive until the developers changed their mind and decided to go multi-platform. They knew that the project would be ambitious, they knew the game would span multiple DVD's, they knew they would have to pay royalty fees, yet they decided to make a version for both consoles anyway.
Eamon  +   1286d ago
To be honest, it's not MS's fault because they released 360 in 2005, almost 6 years ago, a year before HD DVD and Blu-ray came out so it's not like they can do anything about it.
thetorontokid  +   1286d ago
They released there next gen system early, killing the original xbox prematurely, which at the time was the most capable console on the market. Screwing over the consumer three fold by realeasing faulty hardware, with one of the greatest hardware failure rates in history (my launch 360 rrd after two weeks), and no next gen drive, or standard harddrive! Also double AA battery controller,.... C'mon
LCF  +   1285d ago
Even with HD-DVD fail, developers would still have 35 gigs to work with instead of 7 gigs if microsoft used HD-DVD for disc based games.
Lirky  +   1286d ago
having multi disc , really can be a problem if ppl really see what the main problem would be :

If 1 of the discs gets scratched badly then u cant do multiple play thrus lol.
Hanif-876  +   1286d ago
Bluray discs can't be scratched easily, it most likely has to be intentional. Thats also another reason why i buy most of my games on the PS3 because after years of having them they're still gonna be like new :-)
hmmmm  +   1286d ago
@Lirky

I'm sorry but your comment is a little stupid..

If 1 disk of a multidisk game gets scratched to the point its unplayable then yes you cannot play that part of the game anymore. But if the 1 disk for a single disk game gets scratched the entire game is now unplayable....

Just to clarify, im not saying multidisk games are better, as they are not, i'm just saying your comment is kinda pointless..
#13.2 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
MasterCornholio  +   1286d ago
Before you claim that content was cut out.

"We're pretty pleased that we got it down to that in the end," he went on, attributing the feat to "miraculous compression".

I think thats proof enough on how they got it down to 3 disks. Now all you can argue is whether they did a good job compressing it or a bad one (like FF13 on the 360)

PS: Now that i think about it. The reason why i believe that the game is so big is not because of the graphics but its the audio. I haven't played it myself but i read that theres a lot of voice work in it.

@Valkyre

The devs never claimed that they had to cut content out due to disk space so i believe you are wrong with that. If anything the PS3 version has better sound due to uncompressed audio. Anyways the only dev that i read about that had to cut things out of games because of the space that DVD9 has is Squareenix ( http://playstationlifestyle...
#14 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(12) | Report | Reply
jessupj  +   1286d ago
"Last week, McNamara revealed that "two full desks" or mission sets had been cut from L.A. Noire during development, and might be published separately as downloadable content."

Someone didn't read the article...
BrianG  +   1286d ago
Lol, nice one

Also the majority if not all devs will say they are happy with what they got in the end. Why would they say otherwise?
jetlian  +   1286d ago
and
"It took a lot of effort to get down to three discs - I think we were on four or five or six at one point - and to get it onto one Blu-ray [for the PS3 version].

"We're pretty pleased that we got it down to that in the end," he went on, attributing the feat to "miraculous compression

its not miraculous if they straight up cut it. R* HAD 2 DESK READY FROM JUMP
kickerz  +   1285d ago
But they didn't say they cut those levels out because of disk space. Maybe they just want to make more money on dlc. Just saying. When producing movies they sometime scrap scenes for a number of reasons too.. All I'm sayin is stop blameing Microsoft dammmit. :) so many haters here. I wana challange you all in the octagon.
Sprud  +   1285d ago
There is no such thing as "miraculous compression". It's just PR talk. Content was cut, I can guarantee it.
rob6021  +   1285d ago
I think you're right, the compression methods available today are mostly the same ones available 5 years or more ago.
PoulCast  +   1286d ago
So, can we get a reason it was cut down? Due to consoles, once again making things worse?
sayonara89  +   1286d ago
"Console" - 360 with ancient disc format. More discs - bigger cost for publisher, that's why content was cut from the game.
PoulCast  +   1286d ago
More discs are the least of worries for a publisher. Openly telling, that a game sucks balls because they compressed it due to lack of modern technology on their lead platform, just shows what a patethic situation console "gaming" has become.

If it isn't ancient technology, it's worldwide platform breakdown and identity theft.
dragon82  +   1286d ago
The PS3 was the lead platform. Not the 360. The reason the disc format is a problem is because Microsoft charges a royalty fee for each "extra disc" after the third disc. It's for this reason, they compressed the shit out of it to get it to fit on three discs.
rob6021  +   1285d ago
Yea, I don't like MS's dirty little policy that makes devs not even think about going large - Only because if they do it makes MS look bad. Kudos to Rockstar for pushing Noire onto 3 disks - and not being as intimidated by MS. I don't see how 4 disks would have been a problem. 5 is the point where you realize that it's not worth it anymore.
#15.1.3 (Edited 1285d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report
Tigerfist  +   1286d ago
The game wasn't cut down and the game isn't exactly shit either. They are simply saying they had to compress alot in order to tone down the number of discs.

One could do well without the usual console wars bullshit on every topic.
retrofly  +   1286d ago
Wish more people on N4G would leave consoles wars out of this. If anything "insert console name" fanboys just drag the whole of gaming down with them.

If we all just stuck together as gamers and worked with eachother it would only be a benifit to the gaming community and games as a whole.
Vega75  +   1286d ago
I'm still getting the 360 version. Would care if it was 10 disks
White-Sharingan  +   1286d ago
I highly doubt you have a PS3, like you stated a couple of comments below, especially taking comments like these into consideration. You're just a fanboy who cant admit that DVDs are so last gen.
#17.1 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
No Way  +   1286d ago
@White-Sharingan -
I'm getting it on the x360, even though I own a PS3.. oh no, sue me. -.-
The DVD's are of no worry to me, at all. Big deal, I gotta put a disc in!
Oh the tragedy! .. I'm getting it on x360 cause of cross-game chat. Yup.
#17.1.1 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(7) | Report
Snakefist30  +   1286d ago
@No Way

I also have both ps3 and 360 but I will buy the game on my ps3 cause it has better graphics and performance than 360 and not for that stupid cross game chat!
#17.1.2 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report
Aarix  +   1285d ago
I'm getting the xbox version over the ps3 version because I need the achievements
White-Sharingan  +   1285d ago
"I'm getting it on x360 cause of cross-game chat."

Yeah, tell me how that works out on a game that the main feature is listening to the people and observing their facial expression, fail. That works on online games and shooters, not this game.
JamieLeeC93  +   1286d ago
What the fuck is wrong with you? Unless you don't own a PS3?
HINDERIZATION  +   1285d ago
If you own a 360 and PS3, GET THE DAMN PS3 VERSION AND STOP BEING IN DENIAL... DvD format discs scratch easily if not taken care of. Blu-ray does not so you wont have to worry about getting another copy of your damn game... Use common sense people!
Aarix  +   1278d ago
Maybe cause he doesnt hath to. God damn you Fanboys are nuts. Who are you to say which version someone should choose. It's all the same game.
#17.3.1 (Edited 1278d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report
Darth Stewie  +   1286d ago
Damn this confirms some of the DLC should have been part of the game but instead since they could not fit it for the 360 PS3 users will have to buy them just like 360 users just because of DVD limitations. On a side note if L.A. Noire took this much space imagine how much space GTA V will need.
MasterCornholio  +   1286d ago
They could always release it for free. Valve does it with portal 2

http://www.ps3attitude.com/...
rob6021  +   1285d ago
GTAV is a big question mark, I wonder how they're going to do it on the 360, if at all. My best guess is a 16gb thumb drive to go with the game..
user2285916   1286d ago | Spam
retrofly  +   1286d ago
Woah, I thinkpeople have to realise that the game was chopped and ported to the Xbox so that Rockstar/Bondi could make more money.

Blaming microsoft/xbox becuase of a gimped game, when really they should point the finger at the devs.

As usual PS3 fanboys will use anything to have a go at the Xbox.

I have both consoles but will still get it on the xbox, I'm not fussed by installs/disc swapping, it sound slike 1 disc will play longer than the entire portal 2 single player anyway.

Bondi could have decided to keep the game exsclusive and have more content, in the end they decided to make more money, which is fine by me, the less money devs make the less they can spend on new and future games.
YogiBear  +   1286d ago
Don't hurt yourself swapping disks.
retrofly  +   1286d ago
Its the same process as putting any other disc.

Do you have trouble putting discs yourself?

I can't say I've ever injured myself inserting a CD, are you like retarded or something?
YogiBear  +   1284d ago
Sorry if my humor went over your head. But Im sure you get a lot of apologies in that regard.
JamieLeeC93  +   1286d ago
Your reply to yogibear was just retarded.
retrofly  +   1286d ago
How about this one?
AntiHeroComplex  +   1286d ago
"Blaming microsoft/xbox becuase of a gimped game, when really they should point the finger at the devs.

As usual PS3 fanboys will use anything to have a go at the Xbox. "

Take your thumb out of your ass xbot. You think its Team Bondi's fault MS charges royalties for extra discs?

MS released inferior console.
MS charges for extra discs.

Dev did not want to get ripped off by MS for giving more discs and a better game to xbox users. doesnt sound very right you know?

Take off your green cheerleader undies and start thinking.
#20.3 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
Chocoboh  +   1285d ago
If you own both consoles why would you buy the gimped version - the Xbox360 one? I can understand if you buy heavy online multiplatform games for the Xbox360 but cmon. Really? I really doubt you have a PS3. Just a fake deluded troll
TheTruth89  +   1286d ago
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
Noctis106  +   1286d ago
"Was once a 6-disc Xbox360 game" => But never was even a 2-disc PS3 game.
PSjesus  +   1286d ago
Hope MS well ditch DVD (technology)in X720
Aarix  +   1278d ago
Or have dvd10 with 100gb space.
MeNoRasta  +   1286d ago
When MS releases their new format i think around e3 time thats when it will get a little better.
Da_Evil_Monkey  +   1286d ago
This is ridiculous! Just because of the the media storage limitations of one of the platforms they cut content from the game? Not only that, but due to Microsoft only allowing limited free content to be given as DLC, we will likely have to pay later for this cut content. I am sick of the need for games to be 'equal' on both consoles this generation; if one of the consoles limits the developers decisions: tough. Cut the content from that platform only, don't disadvantage those who are on the platform capable of delivering the content.

The Developers (most likely Rockstar as publisher) are the ones to blame here. They should release the game with all content on disc for PS3; and either release a (FREE) DLC straight after release for Xbox, or use even more discs. By cutting content from their game they are just trying to rip off customers: on both platforms. Just like they are also doing with different pre-order 'bonuses' (content cut from the game). L.A. Noire looks to be an awesome game, it's a shame that they are doing this.

note - this is assuming that they will release the content as DLC and it will be paid DLC :D
#25 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
Vega75  +   1286d ago
To bad it's not on pc but I guess I'll get the 360 version, I don't mind the 3 disk. Plus after the BS with psn I will never again give Sony my money or trust them with anything ever again. I don't even want twisted metal which was a game I really wanted for my ps3.
#26 (Edited 1286d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(11) | Report | Reply
ndl1531  +   1286d ago
sux for u buddy ur gonna miss out
White-Sharingan  +   1286d ago
Yeah!. Lets stop supporting sony for something that wasnt their fault! and fuck them for trying to give us free full games to choose, free rentals and a month of ps+, those bastards!!!
Mmmkay  +   1286d ago
after the bullshit with xbox live christmas 2007, 2008, and 2009 I don't trust Microsoft anymore...
No Way  +   1286d ago
@Mmmkay -
Lmao, dude .. that was a poor attempt at a comeback. Mmmkay?
InspectorG  +   1286d ago
Mmm might wait until a GOTY edition comes out with all DLC included - especially since prices in Aus are still insane not to mention the added cost of DLC
Convas  +   1286d ago
I don't get why the idiots in here are saying the 360 is responsible for gimping L.A. Noire. YOU ARE FOOLS.

Sony is the one who walked from this project. Had they not, L.A. Noire would've been a HUGE PS3 exclusive that filled the entire disc.
user2285916   1286d ago | Spam
KeiserSosay4788  +   1286d ago
Half-life 2 PC was 5 discs. Does that mean the console versions were better?
JOHN_DOH  +   1286d ago
I think it was 5 cds but you have to install the game anyway so it doesn't really matter. btw I lost some of my disks when i tried to reinstall hl2 but it was ok because I was able to just download from steam.
Hashashin  +   1286d ago
Pc works differently. You install using your disc/discs and use 1 disc to play the full game without swapping ever again. On a console you are constantly switching back and forth.
thetorontokid  +   1286d ago
No matter how you try justify it swapping discs sucks!
retrofly  +   1286d ago
I dont think anyones trying to justify it, just saying its not really an issue, the only people making a big deal about it are PS3 owners, not heard one Xbox user complain about having to swap discs.
thetorontokid  +   1286d ago
"To be honest, it's not MS's fault because they released 360 in 2005, almost 6 years ago, a year before HD DVD and Blu-ray came out so it's not like they can do anything about it." sounds like justifying to me.

Everytime that message pops up on your screen that's makes you get up off your couch/sofa and do that last gen ritual of changing discs. Ps3 owners don't, so 360 are the ones that should be complaining. Ps3 owners are just pissed about the possibility of getting a watered down game because developers have issues with data management.

Ps3 owners can complain about mandatory installes, but aleast it gives us enough time to make a sandwich ;) wink, wink
AntiHeroComplex   1286d ago | Trolling | show
lh_swe  +   1277d ago
Ok I own all consoles and a gaming PC...I hate disc swapping, good enough?
I am not going to lie, it doesn't completely ruin a game experience but it sure as s*** isn't fun.
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