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Paramount: Transformers HD-DVD doesn't have enough space for High-Res Audio

When audio specs for 'Transformers' were announced, there was a collective sigh of disappointment from early adopters when High-Def-Digest learned that there would be no high-res audio tracks included on this disc. Given that this is such a flagship title for the studio, the decision was quite the head-scratcher.

Indeed, High-Def-Digest had the opportunity to attend a special 'Transformers' media event with Paramount late last week, and the question was asked almost immediately -- why no Dolby TrueHD or uncompressed PCM? The studio's answer was that due to space limitations on the disc, the decision was made to limit the audio to Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround only (here at 1.5mbps). Unfortunately, this confirms the long-held theory that the 30Gb capacity of an HD-30 dual-layer HD DVD disc has forced studios to choose between offering a robust supplements package (as they've done here) and the very best in audio quality.

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PopEmUp3481d ago

Paramount have made a bad move there, going exclusive, I just wonder how they keep up with blue-ray spider man 3

3481d ago
etownone3481d ago

most of the 360 games are made with a native resolution of 720p... with a few exceptions like Halo 3, (which has two frame buffers - both of which render at 1152x640 pixels)

720p is high definition you asss. just like the majority of ps3 are made in 720p.

accept the fact 360 is owning the ps3 this generation

Mwaan3481d ago

Then why does it matter? The average consumer won't spot what you're talking about. Actually some of them might prefer what the 360 is doing. HD-DVD wasn't in the 360 for one simple reason: IT WASN'T READY YET! The one year headstart put the 360 ahead of PS3 and that was all that mattered to Microsoft. I don't think it's about smoke and mirrors. It's about competing. What do you want them to do? Throw up their hands and say "Yeah, Blueray is better. We're dropping out of the race." Actually, by leaving out HD-DVD, Microsoft was able to sell the 360 for $200 dollars less then PS3. I don't know about you? But I was outraged when Sony expected me to pay $600 for a game console. Developers are handling the limited space on 360 and HD-DVD will find a way to get more storage on their disc, because if they don't, they won't survive. This issue will be resolved in a few years. Relax. Buy your Blueray movies and play your PS3 exclusive games. You're not going to miss out if you avoid movies like Transformers and multiplatform games from EA. Trust me.

Dareaver13481d ago

He is always posting rants about why the 360 is not hi-def, even with games like Virtual Tennis which are native 1080p on both consoles. You would think that would get him to change his attacks on the 360, but it hasn't stopped him. I guess he is hoping to recruit more fanboys by saying these things. If he doesn't like the 360 or HD-Dvd so much, then why does he post in pretty much all their posts. I don't get it, i guess he must have a lot of free time. That's why i don't come on this site much anymore. The Fanboyisms from both sides but pretty much primarily the PS3 side is sickening.

A side note. Who cares about native resolution. I personally don't have a hi-def tv, after buying my 360 and some games, i just couldn't afford one, and you know what, i don't think i'm the only gamer out there who has a 360 or a PS3 and no hi-def tv. And with the slew of great games coming out for the rest of this holiday season, i still won't be able to afford a hi-def tv. Sorry if we are all not rich like secret who must have the newest 1080p tv above 32 inches, and he must have i guess the new Harmon Kardon Logic 7 7.1 receiver with 7.1 MB Quartz speaker setup to appreciate all that these respective consoles can offer.

hitthegspot3481d ago (Edited 3481d ago )

Let’s call a Duck a Duck… Every company’s main focus is to make money. Microsoft uses bullying tactics against other companies to corner markets they want to compete in. Sony does this to a degree (Game title exclusives). But Microsoft is king.
Weather I agree with this or not I do like the things that Microsoft does for consumers. If you have a bad software disk they repair it free of charge. Gamers could take advantage of this. If you have a bad disk you should take it to the store you bought it from. MS takes steps to help you preserve your purchase and protect your rights as a consumer, look at the extended warrantee now provided with the 360.
Sony on the other hand wants to shake every consumer by the ankles and snatch every nickel from your pocket. I for one think that if I own a disk I should be able to rip the disk and play the movie, music, or what ever it contains on MY OWN phone, PDA, watch, PSP, or what ever I want to play it on that I OWN. Sony does not think that you should be able to do that with out buying the same movie for every device you own. Look at the recent BMG (a division of Sony) announcement. It claims that it is illegal for you to rip songs off a CD you own. It’s disgusting.
Built into the HD DVD spec is components to make it possible to play your movie on other devices. Sony, Disney, and the other movie companies do not want you to be able to do that. I understand their first concern is pirating and illegal sharing. The HD DVD spec addresses this issue and has mechanisms to work through it. Nothing is hack proof, even BR has been hacked. Bottom line, the companies want consumers to pay for everything. Why do you think DivX failed? Consumers don’t want to pay to watch something they own. Do you own a PSP? Is it wrong for me to want to watch one of the DVDs I own on my PSP? Why should I pay $17.00 for a DVD and then pay $20 for the same movie in the UDM format? Rather than fight that this format is better than the other or take sides why not become better educated consumers and think about what’s right for all of us. If you like BR, then ask Sony the same question that MS asked Sony when this format war first began. Why can’t you add the ability to move the movie from one device to another? MS told Sony when this war first began, add that feature to the spec and we will be in your camp, and that is why I am in the HD camp. Disk technologies are changing every day and the HD disk will grow with time. I for one can wait.

Dareaver13481d ago (Edited 3481d ago )

very informative, i never knew that. Thanx for the perspective.

MikeGdaGod3481d ago

thats all i have to say about this

cuco333481d ago (Edited 3481d ago )

FACT: an unknown "exec" from elsewhere overheard a rumor on why no lossless, you guys bash it apart as if it's the ultimate truth.

FACT: 1.5mps DD+ > 900kps lossless.

FACT: 99% of people in blind tests can NOT tell the difference between any audio format above 320kps. Ask the pros, they'll easily tell you.

FACT: Transformers' audio format has been praised by PROFESSIONALS to be the best sounding track in HDM to date, giving scores of 10/10 and 5/5.

FACT: blu boys use the lossless argument like they did the disc space argument like the did the bandwidth argument, etc etc... IT IS NOT NEEDED IN HDM!!! It also has been beaten to death on how it is not a need but more so a 'want' by those who don't understand HDM and it's technologies.

FACT: blu boys preach the rumored 150mil Paramount deal as truth, it was never officially confirmed. Just another one of these rumors. Ironic they don't preach about the payments and incentives BD exclusive studios get OR the fact that Paramount/Dreamworks/New Line/Warner/etc were PAID to go neutral from HD DVD by the BDA. Irony at it's finest.

I can go on but won't. Let's stop it with the lossless track nonsense. BD isn't 100% lossless (more like 55%) and since most of you can't even tell the difference, nor even have the equipment, don't preach it. You sound retarded beyond belief. It's arguing a mute point you know nothing about.

Watch as the PS3 blu boys disagree. Everything I posted is TRUTH and FACT. Nothing is opinion, nothing is made up. I can link you to studies, quotes, etc of everything I say. I'm neutral, embrace both formats (and consoles) but that doesn't mean I am not biased. I do favor HD DVD for many reasons (finalized spec, no DRM, no region coding, cheaper players for consumer, cheaper and better manufacturing for studios, not relying on a game console to 'win' the HDM war, overall better business model)

risk3481d ago (Edited 3481d ago )

FACT: Im king of the world
Fact: i have $59874695769476 in my bank account
Fact: writing "Fact:" infront of words without providing proof doesnt make them a fact.

athlon7703481d ago

No please stop, please!

Lets face the real facts shall we? Lossless audo is an uncompressed stream, were you pulled the 900kbps from I don't understand, as lossless audio transfers at 5.5mbps! Doubt me, when I get home tonight I will throw a disc in and show the transfer rate between Digital Dolby and PCM (lossless audio) take a pick and post them. I am sorry you bought into the HD-DVD thing without looking at all the options, but Blu-Ray is the better format, and this just proves it. Paramount was bought out to not put any movies onto the BD disk for 1 year, and market HD-DVD exclusivly. And look what it got them, Speilberg is pissed, Bay is pissed, and the one movie that all you HD-DVD followers were cheering about not two months ago saying it is HD exclusive won't even fit on your precious HD disc!

That is truly laughable! I loved some of the HD crowds comments that "30gig is more than enough, and BD discs just are not needed". Yet when I gave the information that the majority of BD movies are on a single layer disc while the majority of the HD movies are already needing the dual layer disc, I was dissagreed with left and right, well I guess the other shoe just dropped didn't it!

And I love your "FACTS", truley I do...an unknown "exec" please, your transfer rates of audio, HA, Blind audio tests, like that matters, you payed to have HD video and audio, then the studio's take the HD audio out of the picture and say "thats cool, we didn't need it anyway", GET REAL!

For those of you that doubt the need for lossless audio, you paid for it, don't you think as one of the selling points for HD-DVD that you should be getting it?

joevfx3481d ago

the average consumer IS NOT buying HD DVD yet, thats the whole point. video and audio files ( early adaptors) are buying hd dvd and blu ray right now. so when a hd dvd title does not live fully up to the specs of hi def standard, there is no point to getting it. un compressed audio us a huge sellign point on these disc for the people that are buying them right now. and if you cant hear the difference, you eather dont have a surround sound system (which im sure almost all HD DVD owners have ) or you are deaf.

paramount made a stupid move and they will see that when they see the sales of tranformers on hd dvd compaired to spidey 3 on blu ray.

harv0523481d ago

Fact: You guys are BORING!!!

cuco333481d ago (Edited 3481d ago )

What part of majority of people, as in more than 95% CAN'T tell the difference above 320kps?! 1.5mps DD+ is perfectly fine HD audio and has been rated by PROFESSIONALS to be 5/5 and 10/10 in Transformers for audio quality. I'ld listen to the pros any day of the week over some fanboy troll who tries to tell me the 'need' for lossless audio when they themselves can't tell the difference. Sure it's cool to have lossless but is it necessary? No, it's just a bragging point and pissing contest and nothing more. BD wasn't even going to include it from the get go, do your research! It's not needed no matter what any BDA exec or BDA studio or PS3 fanboy says it to be. I've been saying this long before I was a PS3 fanboy and BD fanboy before I went 360, wii and HD DVD. There are professional audio engineers with 20+ yrs of experience that will tell you only the audiofiles with $40,000 equipment can tell the difference, not someone who buys a game console for a BD player and a HTIB setup. Want proof? Do this test; encode a CD at 320kps and higher bit rates. Listen to both CD, and all versions of the rip. Your ears will tell you that you hear the same thing but your mind will say 'no, BDA said it has to be better so it is'. Voila, everything the pros have said is true, everything the fanboys have preached is false. It is that easy. We as a masses don't need lossless.

I am neutral. I didn't buy into HD DVD, I bought into HDM and will grab a PS3 (for gaming as well but it really is the best BD player and that speaks mountains of the format how you rely on a game console!I do NOT want to end up with a more expensive obsolete player) and BDs when I see the need. Right now HD DVD is doing everything they said they can do and I am enjoying it. I will follow the same suit with BD but lossless by NO means is a 'need'. Give me good HD audio like 1.5 DD+ and I'll be happy with my setup. What's sad is how crazed you PS3 fans are over BD without even knowing the whole picture preaching specs you don't understand. Anything BD can do in terms of HDM, HD DVD can do. It just costs more for the BD side. I'ld like to know though, how do you think something that isn't finished is the better format?! BD1.1 profile deadline is 2 weeks away and NO word on whether 1st gen players, or even the PS3 will be upgradeable to it. How's that DRM working for Fox and Samsung/LG players? Oh wait... They don't play them! And BD isn't even 1.1 let alone 2.0 yet!!

I find it hysterical how you guys keep bringing up Paramount being 'bought out' yet fail to see what BDA did BEFORE blu launched by paying Para/DW/Warner/etc to go neutral and for neutral studios to go BD exclusive. Hypocritical don't you think?!

All of Speilberg's good films were his old stuff, his new titles aren't as good but if you want those on BD by all means keep them. He wants to pack tons of worthless sales promotional stuff like Disney does with the extra space. Bay at first didn't support the format cuz he thought it was lower quality ala what BD execs preached. Sitting down watching 300 in HD DVD he realized IT'S THE SAME THING!?! and now embraces it as well. For TF, note how many features are on the disc fitted with GREAT picture and GREAT sound. Keep tooting your lossless horn all you want, if you want the film, buy HD DVD. That simple. Or you can do what you think, wait 18 months and get it on BD if that happens.

I love how you say 'blind tests, like that matters'. Do you now what a blind test even is? It is THE truth factor. If you can't distinguish the sound without knowing which one it is, how does that NOT matter? It says EVERYTHING about the human ear and what we perceive to be the 'better sound'. Finally let me add with DD+ IS HD AUDIO. You guys are morons if you don't think so. Have fun listening to your PCM sound track on your home theater in the box setup. :rollseyes:

EMBRACE BOTH FORMATS! One is NOT better than the other but one IS misleading the masses in what they 'need'.

EDIT: to below, I don't need to show proof. I did so in the past and when I did the blu boys nitpicked the data and results as if it were false or if they were pros. Want proof? Do the research yourself. Do a lot of it like I have and you'll start seeing the truth for what it is. But note, you'll stumble on countless lemmings who try and critique what professionals in the industry say because it doesn't go with what they want to hear. Irony at it's finest

risk3481d ago

and i say the same thign again. Stop pulling sh!t outta your ass. post proof WITH what you say. otherwise you will be taken as lightly as a reliable xbox360.

Dareaver13481d ago

great counter, that's exactly what i was thinking, i don't get why people think one is better when the whole difference is over storage space.

I then realized that it's the features that are different. I have had to inform the same said people that Hd-Dvd is the more interactive of the two, and has done it's claims. We are still waiting on Blu Ray to achieve some of theirs. Then there's the issue of standardization of the players, which HD-Dvd supports, but not Blu Ray. All HD-Dvd players have to be internet capable (so all the features available on the Hd-dvd's can be appreciated with all the players) and so on and so forth. Blu Ray, it is pretty much up to the manufacturer (so some features that are available for some movies are not available with some players) of what they want their player to be able to do. That to me makes no sense.

athlon7703481d ago

You are nothing but doubletalk...

"I am neutral. I didn't buy into HD DVD, I bought into HDM and will grab a PS3 (for gaming as well but it really is the best BD player and that speaks mountains of the format how you rely on a game console! I do NOT want to end up with a more expensive obsolete player) and BDs when I see the need. Right now HD DVD is doing everything they said they can do and I am enjoying it."

So lets look at that sentence..."I am neutral. I didn't buy into HD DVD", then at the end you say, "right now HD DVD is doing everything they said they can do and I am enjoying it." So which is it? Did you buy into HD-DVD or not? I guess it doesn't matter, will just get double talk back again. Oh wait, I didn't phrase that correctly...

FACT...I will just get doubletalk from you!

I did make a mistake in my listing though, I listed the throughput of Linear PCM as 5.5mbps, it is actually 4.6mbps, but still a far cry from your FACT of 900kbps!

And just where in my post did you get the foolish idea that I could hear the difference from DD+ to uncompressed? I made no such claim. In fact, the only thing I wrote beyond correcting your miss-information of the audio was to say "For those of you that doubt the need for lossless audio, you paid for it, don't you think as one of the selling points for HD-DVD that you should be getting it?"

Lets examine that for just a second...

"For those of you that doubt the need for lossless audio, you paid for it, don't you think as one of the selling points for HD-DVD that you should be getting it?" I think that is pretty much to the point, you paid good money for a system that was sold with the premise that it could do anything and everything for high def viewing. Then Paramount decides to short change all the HD-DVD takers out there by saying and your words as well, the idiots will never know the difference, they don't need lossless audio. Well I am glad to say I am not one of those idiots! Do you think I care one bit if I can't tell the difference in quality between dolby and PCM? I purchased a system which listed it as one of its MANY virtues, you damn well better believe that when I spend $30.00 on a movie, I want the best it can deliver.

Next up...

"I find it hysterical how you guys keep bringing up Paramount being 'bought out' yet fail to see what BDA did BEFORE blu launched by paying Para/DW/Warner/etc to go neutral and for neutral studios to go BD exclusive. Hypocritical don't you think?!"

Where is the proof? Post a link please. We all know it is documented FACT (there is that word again) that Paramount did what they did, where is the money trail of BD doing the same thing? Let me see it with my own eyes, as I did a "quick" search and found nothing to back up this fruitless claim. Speaking of, this from the Blu-Ray camp which I am sure you will deny... http://www.blu-ray.com/news...

Spielberg Spokesperson: Universal Japan HD DVD Announcement was "A Mistake"
Posted October 8, 2007 by Ben

Marvin Levy, spokesperson for Steven Spielberg, was kind enough to speak with us today regarding the recent surprise announcement from Universal Home Video Japan that Jaws, E.T., Jurassic Park and Back to the Future would be released on HD DVD.

According to Mr. Levy, "There are no plans to release these titles on HD DVD. It was a mistake and someone inadvertently put those titles into a presentation"

Mr. Levy also mentioned that Universal will be making a public statement regarding this mistake in the coming days.

Blu-ray.com would like to thank Mr. Levy for again speaking with us regarding Mr. Speilberg's films and their future in the world of high definition media.

So basically the HD side is screwing its own directors! Thats all sorts of nice. Using his name in an effort to swing people over when he wants nothing to to with HD-DVD! Priceless!

Next...

"I love how you say 'blind tests, like that matters'. Do you now what a blind test even is? It is THE truth factor. If you can't distinguish the sound without knowing which one it is, how does that NOT matter? It says EVERYTHING about the human ear and what we perceive to be the 'better sound'. Finally let me add with DD+ IS HD AUDIO. You guys are morons if you don't think so. Have fun listening to your PCM sound track on your home theater in the box setup. :rollseyes:"

Do you seriously think I don't know what a Blind test is. You must as you went into a paragraph about it. Again, I stress, did I say ANYTHING about sound quality? Ummmmmm, judges...NO! How about you get off your high horse and grow up. And what the heck is HDM? You list it multiple times in your post but I honestly don't know what you are talking about...High Def Movies? Something you made up so other people will think you know what you are talking about? Something I must be missing.

athlon7703481d ago

I added the pics as promised...3 pics, 1st showing the dolby, 2nd showing the audio set up screen, and 3rd showing the PCM.

reaperxciv3480d ago (Edited 3480d ago )

already!

Fact: this site is filled with bickering crybabies, even the blind can see that.

See you all online, GAME on!

Evil0Angel3480d ago

and buy SPIDY in BLUE-RAY

i owen both format, i do not give crap about lossless or blah blah just give me fcukin 5.1 good picture quality.

it is funny to see how people arguing BLUE-RAY VS HD-DVD consideing most of them do not own any of them yet, just becuse BR is attached to PS3 , HD-DVD attached to 360 and we have way too many unsecured fanboys who bought a console and they wish they bought the other.

ruibing3480d ago

What in the world does this have to do with the 360/PS3 anyways? 360 doesn't even use HD-DVD for games so there is no need to add the console war on top of the format war? Some of you people are way too sensitive about it.

The point here is not that the video/audio quality isn't good enough, its that it could have been better. It's like how DVD supporters say HD-DVD/BD aren't needed because they can't tell the difference on their SDTVs anyways. If they had to make a compromise when releasing the movie, then it means that they reached a limit on a dual-layered HD-DVD. Does it ruin HD-DVD? No. But it does beg the question of the technical limit of HD-DVD when the tri-layer HD-DVD is 50GB (I think) and BD is 100GB. As HD becomes a more important topic, we are going to reach the limit on both formats soon, so the question is whether the compromise matters to you. Then again, if you bought a HD-DVD player/addon, I highly doubt you are going to flame the format.

+ Show (17) more repliesLast reply 3480d ago
HeartlesskizZ3481d ago

I enjoy this movie so much that a sequel was only going to be perfect.
but since the director choose not to take part on it is just another great movie going down =(

supermandead6663481d ago

This is statement after the 150 million bribe to Paramount:

“As a director, I’m all about people seeing films in the best quality possible, and I saw and heard first-hand people upset about a corporate decision. So today I saw [the film] 300 on HD, it rocks! So I think I might be back on to do Transformers 2!”

rubarb233481d ago (Edited 3481d ago )

i like how you focus on the 150 million bribe to Paramount. yeah like sony didn't bride target, block buster, ect.
man please you blu ray sluts are just jealouse you wont be able to enjoy transformers in hd. yeah the lack of hd audio sucks, but the audio track that comes with it is still nice. enjoy watching transformers in sd.
as far as hd dvd vs blu ray goes, the fight is not over. lets wait for a winner to be crowned....and then speak.

-EDIT-
supermandead 666

do you have proof paramount rec'd the $150 mil? it was rumour but i believe ms/toshiba/paramunt denied this.
BTW, i torrent movies as well BHUHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
transformers is worth the purchase though.

supermandead6663481d ago

Do u have proofs of this? BTW i torrent my movie. HAHAHA!!

IdontTakeSides3481d ago (Edited 3481d ago )

HAHA..already experiencing space limitations..Paramount is gonna regret going Hd-DVD exclusive..Blu-ray is gonna own them..Spiderman 3..POTC...!!!....need I say more...?

rubarb233481d ago

and you know it. only reason your taunting it is cause it's on gay ray. as far as space limitations goes, no worries hd dvd will soon be bringing out the 51gb disc so lets talk about space limitations then.
to answer your question "need i say more?" no you don't, STFU!

XBOTSMUSTDIE3481d ago

Transformers was ok but nothing to brag about..I gett the spiderman collectin in blu ray where every movie come with lossless audio....Face it if you have to cut that means HDDVD is not real HD...Blu ray there is no cutting and everything fits the way it should be.....HDDVD is having trouble fitting and DVD on 360 is having a hard time fitting games...You 360 losers jumped in to early and now you want to complain because sony release a better product ...stop being stupid

Drano3481d ago

Watching both Spiderman 3 and Transformers was like being mentally gang-banged.

Jump Beyond.

snakeak3481d ago

that made me lol.. even though I don't have a clue what it means. :D

Drano3481d ago

I just meant that both movies sucked and that the effect that they had on my mind was as pleasant as a gang-bang... But that's just my opinion. I've been bitterly disappointed in both Transformers and Spider-man 3.

Jump Beyond.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3481d ago
MK_Red3481d ago

In your face Paramount, this is for your stupid move and keeping this terrible format war last even longer. BTW, Can't wait for Transformers HD.

pacman6153481d ago (Edited 3481d ago )

i was waiting for it to end, but i couldn't look away, best post of the day right there , bubbles for you

edit: just added that to my fav's

Jen5en3481d ago

CLASSIC!

Bubbles coming your way.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3481d ago