Yesterday, at the South by Southwest Interactive Conference in Austin, Peter Vesterbacka, the maker of Angry Birds, compared the explosive growth of mobile and social gaming with the decline of console gaming, concluding that the latter is “dying”.
(Angry Birds, Casual games, Mobile, PS3, Rovio, Wii, Xbox 360)
These fools get a little success and all of a sudden they know what the hell is going on with everyone else's business. the Mighty Eagle needs to land on their studio.
It may not be dieing but it surely is going down. Console game sales are down year on year, 2009 was worse then 2008, 2009 was worse then 2010. 2011 has had a bad start. This is verified by NPD.
PC gaming on the other hand has been growing. People may disagree and flame however these are actual figures no point disagreeing.
@Ranshak: There are a few reasons why we saw a decline in 2009 over 2008 and again in 2010 in NPD:
1) In 2008 we had the two best selling standalone games in this generation of consoles: GTA IV for the X360/PS3, and Mario Kart for the Wii. These kind of 20+ million seller tend to tip the scale and there are very few of them (we also had a yearly COD title, but that's just like every other year).
2) In 2009, console hardware prices went down for all 3 key players. So although more consoles were sold, less money was generated from them. When the NPD states that "overall console spending is down this year" they refer to the actual money, not the number of units sold.
3) In the past two years we saw the slow decline in PS2 sales. These old 99$ consoles contributed to the total figure in the past, but there is no cheap alternative to replace them now since the console manufacturers still charge a premium price of over 200$ for current gen consoles.
4) World is going digital. PC is probably 50% digital now, and Microsoft catalog now has hundreds of "regular" X360 games for direct download. And that's on top of the PSN and XBLA services. These numbers are not tracked by the NPD although they are estimated in billions.
So if you were to ask me the console business is extremely healthy, and if you actually compare the number of console games sold each year you will see an increase over the years. Here, just one recent example: COD Black Ops was just declared as the best selling game in the US *EVER*. Angry Birds will need a lot of 99p sales to generate this much money, and as long as there are games like COD, there will be eager developers who KNOW they can make a better game in hope to take its place.
If console gaming died I could not be a gamer anymore. Social "5" minute games just dont do what something like Mass Effect or Uncharted 2 does.
And I would argue against the "social" part. I dont know if a game like angry birds could socially match what games like Halo, Battlefield and Killzone 3 do online. (Even if it is sometimes racist 10 year olds)
You dont need a console for that kind of exeperience, pretty soon any laptop or tablet will be able to provide something like that. i think sony sees it coming.
You are kidding right? You tell us that you will play or now it's even almost becoming experience on your tablet or on your laptop on your knees? instead of sitting comfortably on your couch with your big TV and surround sound. I'm sure you will prefer sitting in an airplane stuck between people playing a game on your tablet
I agree with you, the tablets are the future or handhelds. Yes it is better than a console because you can bring it with you, plug it in at your boys house, and it has much more functionality. Why cant you plug a portable console into a tv and use a controller? The ipad 3 will probably run mass effect better than a 360. The hardware is getting there. Consoles will always be here but id rather have a MS tablet that runs 360 games w hdmi out than a 360 that stays under my tv. Not to mention an ereader, movies, wb surfing, apps exc. Mark my words whoever makes a gaming tablet will outsell consoles.
I think people aren't bothering reading what his reasoning was. His argument is that console games have huge budgets and require a hefty amount of sales to break even. Smaller mobile games however, are cheaper/easier to make and therefore are smaller risks.
The next-gen is going to amplify the problem of cost even more when games start coming with more detail (graphics, animation, voice acting, etc).
So in a sense, he's right. It's just going to get harder for devs to survive (especially with publishers like Activision running things into the ground). However, his comment applies more to the decline of hardcore gaming versus the rise of casual games rather than just consoles. 360 and Wii seem to focus more on casual games now, and games in general are following a trend in which they get dumbed down (or 'stream-lined')
How is Xbox aiming towards the casuals? If you say Kinect, I may throw up. Kinect is an EXPANSION that makes the 360 MORE compatiable for EVERYONE. I guess we forget about Halo Reach, Dead Space 2, Crysis 2, Gears 3, Forza 4, Metal Gear Rising, Call of Duty. Give me a break. The only reason people hate on Kinect is because it blew MOVE out of the water. No one knows or cares about MOVE due to Kinects success.
If you take the time to look, you'd see that most of the games released for KINECT are also on MOVE. Sure, Kinect has some exclusives, but I have seen the same workout games and sports related games for both Kinect and MOVE. Give me a break with this BS argument. Take a look at some of the Gears 3 BETA video's on this site and then tell me it's for the casuals.
Console games cost more with every generation and I have seen it effect the number of games being release. As a matter of fact there are TOO many games releasing this year. This guy is a retard. When he starts releasing real full console games then he can talk until then he just sound like a wanabe developer without the support these other studios have.
Free to play games and etc are getting leaps and bounds better all the time, and the idea of a device that can only.play games is starting.to.get foolish. I give it 5-10 years.
Based on what? the way things are going consoles as we know them cant go on. 5-10 years of current trends and i cant see much of a traditional console market left.
well kevnb, you are wrong because consoles don't only do gaming. You can use them to watch movies, listen to music, browse the internet, view your pictures and some other small things. Consoles will progress I believe and will have more and more functionalities as a windows or apple PC. Consoles will not die out in 5-10years at all. The main functionality of a console always was and always will be GAMING. Like it or not. Consoles today are more than consoles, they are an entertainment center.
Your point, the last time I looked the PS3 could do more than just play games. Plus you are missing the point. Millions of people want a machine solely for gaming, you may not but many do.
This guy has no knowledge about the gaming industry. Console gaming makes up the largest part in the video game world. These app. Games are a joke. They are ok to kill some time while waiting t the DMV and such places but I would never pull out my phone at home to play anything on it. It's clear that he is just jelaous because he can't make a proer video game so he feels the need to crap on actual video games. I'm sorry but Angry Birds is a pice of shit!
Pc gaming is the largest part of the market actually, a good chunk of it is stuff you dont like but it really doesnt matter. Its all about money, not making you happy. Zinga is bigger than ea, think about that for a second.
"Xbox 360 topped $3 billion in traditional U.S. retail stores in 2010 — moving the Microsoft console past the Nintendo Wii (at $2.6 billion) and keeping it ahead of Sony’s PlayStation 3 (at $2.1 billion) in a closely watched measure of financial performance."
EDIT: I found the source, that's worldwide sales my friend, not US only. The data I gave you is US. Besides the bigger PC markets like asian countries are big because consoles are banned in that country (like China for example), and most normal games we play are banned as well, which won't help EA and other companies at all.
When we find sales revenue from worldwide console sales, then we can talk.
"You're a fool, like all PC exclusive gamers." ... Jeesh, leave a little bit of arrogance for us too, ey?
The figure you reported is from Steam. Steam is a digital distribution service, one of many on PC (arguable the most popular). So the actual revenue might be bigger, but meh... I doubt the PC generates enough software revenue to match three consoles combined though. =/ Including Hardware might change things... but that'd just be getting desperate. ... Maybe if we started arguing that PC is larger than any single console... we'd still be having a pointless discussion since Vesterbacka's comment applies to consoles and PC games.
I did google it and I edited my comment a few minutes after, like I said, those are worldwide sales buddy, not US only. The numbers I gave you are US only, imagine including Japan, Europe and the rest of the world.
Like I said, China and many other asian countries have banned home consoles because they are worried it will take too much time out of children's lives, and other bullshit as well, but for some reason PC games aren't completely banned at all. Even with consoles banned on some asian countries, I'm positive that overall sales for consoles is higher than PC.
Even IF PC sales are higher worldwide, the fact that some "normal" games are banned on those places as well, it means it wont help developers sell their games.
Casual games is where the money is at, there's no doubt about that. They're selling, and who they're selling too is females aged 25-35. That's why games like angry birds, tiny wings or fruit ninja can sell upwards of 2 million dollars and counting. And these are titles that could have been made by a team of 3-5 people in under a couple of months. Sell them at a buck a pop, take away Apple and Android's fees and suddenly you've struck it rich. It's possible.
By contrast, console gaming is a risky business. You can lose 5 years of your life and invest millions into a game and there's no guarantee it'll sell. As a business model...it sucks. There's too much risk and fans are incredible fickle. Bad word of mouth over the internet can absolutely sink a game - even if it's not warranted, and with so many games to choose from, who wants to invest tens of millions into a game that might be overlooked simply because a better FPS ships at the same time.
While I don't think console gaming is dying, I can certainly see how he might think that given the rise in the casual market. We've come full circle back to the start of videogames. Mobile game pioneers now have the chance to try new things, new ideas with small teams and have a good chance of being successful at it - just like back when the atari 2600 was picking up steam. Of course, we know how that ultimately turned out.
Apples, oranges and BIRDS... .
Comparing mobile anything to stay at home consoles is pretty dumb. The guy makes mobile games so you can expect such stupidity. Free apps will always out sell, if you can say sell, since it's free than a $60 full game...O_o
M$ last June said XBL generated 1.2 billion dollars in revenue...you can bet with Black ops, Halo and Kinect it's a lot higher now. Halo Reach has moved close to 9 million units. COD: Black ops on 360 has moved close to 11 million units and has become the biggest and best selling game this gen. Kinect has broken all kinds of records and continue's to do so...what was this guy talking about again???
He has an agenda and that is fine...BUT, you can't compare phones and FREE apps to some thing like consoles...lol
This is just stupid. Even tho he's a smartphone app developer I expect more Well thought out comments. How can you seriously think Consoles will die? They will always have a home (Market) just like a TV does in a house inhabited by Kids/Teens.
Yes Smartphone/tablets are getting popular i myself plan to buy the Xperia Play cause im not interested in NGP/3DS and this is to replace my iPhone 4. My consoles and PC Gaming rig are at home for Hardcore gaming when I got the time to Chillax.
" Angry Birds just passed the 100 million downloads milestone – how many of them were paid downloads is unclear"
LOL. Dude doesn't even know how much his game sold to consumers or how many times it was stolen.
xbox 360 install base around 51 million ps3 install base around 50 million Wii install base around 85 million
This has been one of the most successful console generations of all time(maybe the most in history). The first time in history where there are 3 consoles living side by side and none of the big 3 are dropping out.
I'm more excited for console gaming then I ever have been. The only issue with any game being developed, mobile phone gaming aside, is that it takes an enormous amount of resources (i.e. money, talent, tech, time). So we can expect to have new iterations every few years and not every holiday like angry birds.
Look, I play console games for hours upon hours whereas I play Angry Birds usually as I am going to bed. Beat a few levels and go to bed. Just because everyone and their mother can play a free game has nothing to do with the death or decline of console gaming. They are two different entities within themselves.
Why are people always saying this? They are selling millions of consoles and games each year. They may downsize a bit, but nobody walks away from sales like that. If a company were to drop out, the others would surely benefit greatly.
F*** angry birds, it's a mediocre game with a broken physics engine. Yes the team has sold copies hand over fist but it doesn't make it a quality title. Console gaming is declining but that doesn't mean all games will go towards the typical, "play for two minutes then put down..." There will always be a market for deep, expansive games and angry birds is not one of them. There's a reason I own a PSP/PS3/PS2/Saturn/Wii/XBOX/PS 2/GAMING PC but not a single ipod touch/iphone/ipad....
Console gaming is going strong with great games coming out. Angry Birds is a fun little game, but I usually only game on my mobile (Android) when I'm on the train or bus and have no other option to pass the time...
Exactly. when I want to play a video game I don't go into my office, sit on my couch, and play angry birds on my iphone. I play my PS3 or 360. Give me a break. Angry birds is a great little game to play while you're passing time, for instance, I play mobile games while I am not driving in my carpool. Angry birds is great, but nothing beats Diner Dash and the rest of the Dash games from Play First, INC. Those games are addicting!
This comment will shock people and get headlines so he's kind of smart for that but don't fall into the trap. This is definite troll bait, and is so inaccurate it should be ignored.
Angry birds in a lot like pac-man, it will be remembered but won't stay relevant.
Onehitwonder boy really has a lot to say doesn't he. Why doesn't he try creating something with more substance and another game with the same level of success as angry birds and get back to me.
Growth in mobile gaming does not mean less and/or the death of console gaming. There is room for both. In fact they even compliment each other. Mobile games means more people have access to playing and creating games, meaning more jobs and innovation in the industry, and new customer growth, both in the typical and diverse consumer bases.
Mobile gaming can even lead to and added interest in console gaming. These markets are not mutually exclusive, but then again do not rely on each other being a success.
I would say these "on the go" quick play games have created a new market interest both for developer and consumers, leading to more downloadable titles being created and purchased. This is good news for everyone as it offers more choice, easier market entry, and overall more competition.
There are no losers. At home I mostly play my console, on the go I play my iphone. The competition relates directly to mobile gaming platforms and not home consoles.
repeat the success of angry birds again and then you can talk.
Angry birds will one day be the "macarena" of video games. Something that hits absolutely huge, but then becomes a joke sometime later. We will all reflect on it wondering why people were so stupid to like it so much.
Edit: not to mention most sales are from a different user base than console gamers. Its like Chipotle with all its success with burrito's saying "Hamburgers are dead"
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PC gaming on the other hand has been growing. People may disagree and flame however these are actual figures no point disagreeing.
There are a few reasons why we saw a decline in 2009 over 2008 and again in 2010 in NPD:
1) In 2008 we had the two best selling standalone games in this generation of consoles: GTA IV for the X360/PS3, and Mario Kart for the Wii. These kind of 20+ million seller tend to tip the scale and there are very few of them (we also had a yearly COD title, but that's just like every other year).
2) In 2009, console hardware prices went down for all 3 key players. So although more consoles were sold, less money was generated from them. When the NPD states that "overall console spending is down this year" they refer to the actual money, not the number of units sold.
3) In the past two years we saw the slow decline in PS2 sales. These old 99$ consoles contributed to the total figure in the past, but there is no cheap alternative to replace them now since the console manufacturers still charge a premium price of over 200$ for current gen consoles.
4) World is going digital. PC is probably 50% digital now, and Microsoft catalog now has hundreds of "regular" X360 games for direct download. And that's on top of the PSN and XBLA services. These numbers are not tracked by the NPD although they are estimated in billions.
So if you were to ask me the console business is extremely healthy, and if you actually compare the number of console games sold each year you will see an increase over the years.
Here, just one recent example: COD Black Ops was just declared as the best selling game in the US *EVER*. Angry Birds will need a lot of 99p sales to generate this much money, and as long as there are games like COD, there will be eager developers who KNOW they can make a better game in hope to take its place.
What a FOOL
Glad I jailbroke my iPhone and got his game for free
And I would argue against the "social" part. I dont know if a game like angry birds could socially match what games like Halo, Battlefield and Killzone 3 do online. (Even if it is sometimes racist 10 year olds)
You are kidding right? You tell us that you will play or now it's even almost becoming experience on your tablet or on your laptop on your knees? instead of sitting comfortably on your couch with your big TV and surround sound. I'm sure you will prefer sitting in an airplane stuck between people playing a game on your tablet
His argument is that console games have huge budgets and require a hefty amount of sales to break even. Smaller mobile games however, are cheaper/easier to make and therefore are smaller risks.
The next-gen is going to amplify the problem of cost even more when games start coming with more detail (graphics, animation, voice acting, etc).
So in a sense, he's right. It's just going to get harder for devs to survive (especially with publishers like Activision running things into the ground). However, his comment applies more to the decline of hardcore gaming versus the rise of casual games rather than just consoles. 360 and Wii seem to focus more on casual games now, and games in general are following a trend in which they get dumbed down (or 'stream-lined')
If you take the time to look, you'd see that most of the games released for KINECT are also on MOVE. Sure, Kinect has some exclusives, but I have seen the same workout games and sports related games for both Kinect and MOVE. Give me a break with this BS argument. Take a look at some of the Gears 3 BETA video's on this site and then tell me it's for the casuals.
this guy is a lil too high off his little kids game
Plus you are missing the point. Millions of people want a machine solely for gaming, you may not but many do.
"$970 million in revenue" on PC
http://pc.gamespy.com/artic...
"Xbox 360 topped $3 billion in traditional U.S. retail stores in 2010 — moving the Microsoft console past the Nintendo Wii (at $2.6 billion) and keeping it ahead of Sony’s PlayStation 3 (at $2.1 billion) in a closely watched measure of financial performance."
http://indepthwithtech.com/...
EDIT: I found the source, that's worldwide sales my friend, not US only. The data I gave you is US. Besides the bigger PC markets like asian countries are big because consoles are banned in that country (like China for example), and most normal games we play are banned as well, which won't help EA and other companies at all.
When we find sales revenue from worldwide console sales, then we can talk.
... Jeesh, leave a little bit of arrogance for us too, ey?
The figure you reported is from Steam. Steam is a digital distribution service, one of many on PC (arguable the most popular). So the actual revenue might be bigger, but meh... I doubt the PC generates enough software revenue to match three consoles combined though. =/
Including Hardware might change things... but that'd just be getting desperate.
... Maybe if we started arguing that PC is larger than any single console... we'd still be having a pointless discussion since Vesterbacka's comment applies to consoles and PC games.
As for Zynga --> http://www.businessweek.com...
Like I said, China and many other asian countries have banned home consoles because they are worried it will take too much time out of children's lives, and other bullshit as well, but for some reason PC games aren't completely banned at all. Even with consoles banned on some asian countries, I'm positive that overall sales for consoles is higher than PC.
Even IF PC sales are higher worldwide, the fact that some "normal" games are banned on those places as well, it means it wont help developers sell their games.
By contrast, console gaming is a risky business. You can lose 5 years of your life and invest millions into a game and there's no guarantee it'll sell. As a business model...it sucks. There's too much risk and fans are incredible fickle. Bad word of mouth over the internet can absolutely sink a game - even if it's not warranted, and with so many games to choose from, who wants to invest tens of millions into a game that might be overlooked simply because a better FPS ships at the same time.
While I don't think console gaming is dying, I can certainly see how he might think that given the rise in the casual market. We've come full circle back to the start of videogames. Mobile game pioneers now have the chance to try new things, new ideas with small teams and have a good chance of being successful at it - just like back when the atari 2600 was picking up steam. Of course, we know how that ultimately turned out.
.
Comparing mobile anything to stay at home consoles is pretty dumb. The guy makes mobile games so you can expect such stupidity. Free apps will always out sell, if you can say sell, since it's free than a $60 full game...O_o
M$ last June said XBL generated 1.2 billion dollars in revenue...you can bet with Black ops, Halo and Kinect it's a lot higher now. Halo Reach has moved close to 9 million units. COD: Black ops on 360 has moved close to 11 million units and has become the biggest and best selling game this gen. Kinect has broken all kinds of records and continue's to do so...what was this guy talking about again???
He has an agenda and that is fine...BUT, you can't compare phones and FREE apps to some thing like consoles...lol
Yes Smartphone/tablets are getting popular i myself plan to buy the Xperia Play cause im not interested in NGP/3DS and this is to replace my iPhone 4. My consoles and PC Gaming rig are at home for Hardcore gaming when I got the time to Chillax.
who cares what he says.
LOL. Dude doesn't even know how much his game sold to consumers or how many times it was stolen.
xbox 360 install base around 51 million
ps3 install base around 50 million
Wii install base around 85 million
This has been one of the most successful console generations of all time(maybe the most in history). The first time in history where there are 3 consoles living side by side and none of the big 3 are dropping out.
is dying.
Look, I play console games for hours upon hours whereas I play Angry Birds usually as I am going to bed. Beat a few levels and go to bed. Just because everyone and their mother can play a free game has nothing to do with the death or decline of console gaming. They are two different entities within themselves.
Console gaming is going strong with great games coming out. Angry Birds is a fun little game, but I usually only game on my mobile (Android) when I'm on the train or bus and have no other option to pass the time...
Edit: Unfortunately it's not out on Android yet, argh...
Angry birds in a lot like pac-man, it will be remembered but won't stay relevant.
Mobile gaming can even lead to and added interest in console gaming. These markets are not mutually exclusive, but then again do not rely on each other being a success.
I would say these "on the go" quick play games have created a new market interest both for developer and consumers, leading to more downloadable titles being created and purchased. This is good news for everyone as it offers more choice, easier market entry, and overall more competition.
There are no losers. At home I mostly play my console, on the go I play my iphone. The competition relates directly to mobile gaming platforms and not home consoles.
Angry birds will one day be the "macarena" of video games. Something that hits absolutely huge, but then becomes a joke sometime later. We will all reflect on it wondering why people were so stupid to like it so much.
Edit: not to mention most sales are from a different user base than console gamers. Its like Chipotle with all its success with burrito's saying "Hamburgers are dead"