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David Jaffe Sounds Off on GeoHot – Says His Argument “Doesn’t Matter”

RipTen: The always vocal overlord of Twisted Metal has sounded off on the current situation revolving around George “GeoHot” Hotz.

According to Jaffe, it doesn’t matter what GeoHot’s argument is – if he broke the law, he should be punished accordingly.

Update:

***New David Jaffe statement added - Responds to Comments on N4G***

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Joule2826d ago

why is there so many articles about this?? Do you guys really care about this case?

I visit N4G for gaming news, not court cases.

Shadow Flare2826d ago

I don't want my online game experience ruined or my credit card details at risk. Therefore I'm interested in this topic, hope Sony wins and hope geohot gets bitchslapped round the face

Wenis2826d ago

Sony's Terms of Service =/= the law

Proxy2826d ago

Fortunately the judges in the case agree with Jaffe. If Geo broke the law then he should be punished by the law.

The real question is "did he break the law?" Lots of differing opinions from very educated and well paid lawyers, and even more opinions from people who like surfing the N4G comment section. But in the end it's all up to the judge.

dragon822826d ago

We care becuase this court case effects the entire gaming industry. You should care too.

Focker4202826d ago

He stole copyrighted code, That is illegal. Terms of Service isn't even relevant in this court case. The code he stole was owned solely by Sony. Its like going into someone's house and stealing their tv. Its their property that you stole.

He can cry homebrew all he wants, it won't make a difference. He still stole their property.

KidMakeshift2826d ago

This is a PS3 fanboy site now so expect "Geohot" to become they're new poster child.

I hate what N4G has become and I hate Kotaku's new web design. I want all the current news going on not a hundred poorly written blogs about this wigger or Marvel vs Capcom 3.

Op242826d ago

Go play Modern Warfare 2 El Jugador, then come back and say that statement again. But first think about this. Once you see what MW2 has become, think about all the other online games you have and if their hacked too.

HolyOrangeCows2826d ago (Edited 2826d ago )

"Sony's Terms of Service =/= the law"
Distributing copy protected code = Against the law

All of you trolls and fanboys who have no idea what the charges even are should just stay the heck out of this discussion.

GeoNotz and the FailingOverWithAuntFlow should be punished. They took stolen code (illegal), distributed it (also illegal), and distributed tampered versions of it (strike three....you'rrrrre OUTTA THERE!)

As a side note:
Jaffe talks about the law and trying to change a law (but not through breaking the law), yet he throws in Liberal rhetoric in half of his posts (well, he usually does), comparing "Stealing a Ferrari because you aren't going to buy one" to "Tea Party Logic"
Meanwhile, Liberals are skipping town and ignoring federal courts (DESTROYING the entire structure of our law) to avoid democracy.
Careful who you vaguely attack and blindly follow, Jaffe. It'll nip you in the butt.

BattleAxe2826d ago

I agree with jaffe, I've seen so many threads where people are all "screw Sony" and "Sony shouldn't be able to control everything". If you don't like the PS3 and how it works, then don't buy it. Go buy a PC and then you do whatever the f**k you want, within the law of course. I hope Geohot gets nailed to the frickin wall and pissed on.

Heartnet2826d ago

Cuz David Jaffe is awesome!

Christopher2826d ago

***I visit N4G for gaming news, not court cases. ***

So, you want to hear about gaming news, just not gaming news that involves going to court? I'm not sure this is N4GBNN4OOTBGCTPTC (News four gamers but not news for one of the biggest gaming companies taking people to court).

Dee_912826d ago (Edited 2826d ago )

@Proxy
yea they have to keep bringing that up in court
that he blatantly admited to hacking the ps3 for pirated games on tv
no matter what him and his lawyers say
thats illegal.
I have a feeling now that the only reason this is still going is to hear both side fully

and ahmen to jaffe !!!

CarlosX3602826d ago

That's exactly what we needed, a well respected industry vet sounding off on this situation!

Go Get 'em. Jaffe! :)

GeoHotz, er. I mean. CheeseHotz has nothing on Mr. Jaffe. :)

Tdmd2826d ago (Edited 2826d ago )

@El Jugador
Uh... It's an court case about an gamer and one of the majors gaming platforms, which outcome will affect directly in our gaming routines... hello? How isn't this relevant? Of course there are so many articles about it and of course we should care. This one is big!

teething2826d ago

David Jaffe has far too much logic and common sense for the average teenage pirate/hacker to understand.

Mahr2826d ago

Oh, thank goodness. As long as I know that the position I have taken on a given issue is the opposite of David Jaffe's, I know that I will be able to act with firmness in the right.

Anon19742825d ago (Edited 2825d ago )

What really bugs me about this whole issue is the mentality of the Hotz supporters. They act like he's some hero, as if hacking the PS3 was somehow a blow for the little guy against giant corporations. Read the comments on his Youtube rap sometime to bear witness to the type of people who throw their lot in with this clown.

Jaffe hit it on the head. If you don't like Sony's decisions or their terms of use - spend your money somewhere else. It's not up to you to decide which laws to follow and which ones to flaunt.

And as Jaffe pointed out - is it Sony's fault that the laws are what they are? If you don't like the current laws, let your representatives know. It's the law makers who answer to the politicians who make these laws. Stealing from Sony isn't going to change anything. It's like robbing a bank because you disagree with high bank fees. It's ridiculous.

Jaffe's making a whole lotta sense. It's too bad so many are deaf from immaturity.

iPlayGamez2825d ago

@shadow flare
how is suing Geohot gonna UNHACK the PS3? it has been hacked well before Geohot and you dont even have to hack your ps3 to hack online games like MW2, BOPS, and U2. credit card at risk? well once again you dont have to hack your ps3 to hack some one elses account and as long as you dont press "remember credit card information" this will NEVER be a problem.

Mahr2824d ago

"is it Sony's fault that the laws are what they are?"

No, technically, it is the fault of people who do not challenge those laws and say "Well if it's the law, then it must be good!" that the laws are what they are.

It is very much Sony's fault that they have decided to try to enforce extremely dumb laws.

"It's not up to you to decide which laws to follow and which ones to flaunt."

Sorry, but that is not true. Fair use is legal. Fair use exemptions from the DMCA are legal.

The problem is that the DMCA starts from the default position of 'All use is illegal until a case is made otherwise'. The modding community is making that case, as it made for the iphone and for Spanish PS3s.

"Jaffe's making a whole lotta sense"

That is because you and he are birds of a feather in terms of saying things about issues you do not actually understand in any meaningful sense.

+ Show (16) more repliesLast reply 2824d ago
shotgun_ps32826d ago

Just send Jaffe into any situation with a couple of beers and joints. Problem solved.

frostypants2826d ago (Edited 2826d ago )

Wow. Jaffe owned the N4G critics. Hard. And he's right.

It's laughable how much importance people are putting behind what amounts to a silly tween trying to facilitate the theft of video games. There's no glorious revolutionary agenda here...all of this "fighting for the little guy" garbage is just an excuse.

Like Jaffe said...if ya want to legitimately fight for the little guy, go find a battle-front more worthwhile than f*cking video games.

morkendo232826d ago (Edited 2826d ago )

let twisted metal clown hack the hell outta GEOHOTZ

HACK THAT ASS TIL ITS SWOLLEN JAFFE! oh,ah,oh!!!!! ahhhh!

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2824d ago
Cajun Chicken2826d ago

Bingo and that's a person who gets paid for making games saying that, someone in the industry. He doesn't want little sods getting his lifework for free.

Neckbear2826d ago (Edited 2826d ago )

One would question the actual illegality of GeoHot's actions, actually. I mean, was what GeoHotz did "illegal" in first place? One could argue that he only provided tools, not profiting over anything, nor doing something explicitly illegal; suing 'im is like giving a gun manufacturer charges of murder, if the case concerns piracy, that's it. Or well, just blaming him of piracy, as fanboys like to think.

And, my dear Jaffe, I usually like your attitude, yet I do not believe you're fit for legal manners. The reason why courts exist is to provide arguments, proof regarding the case- coming to the conclusion after both points of view are seen. Dismissing one's argument simply to say "HURR BUT BAD THINGS ARE BAD BECAUSE I SAID SO" is pretty damn short-sighted.

I'll leave this case to the court, as I honestly give two shits about it. Ah, whatever.

@rdgneoz3

The manufacturer could argue it's the people's fault that they actually used the guns for murder, not theirs. They are not responsible for other people's actions, even when providing the tools for them. A bunch of people profiting over the situation shouldn't go to court just because some jackass decided to use their weapons for murder, they're not the ones at fault for that. It's the individual's fault, I repeat.

@despair

Problem is, even when he released said tools, he's not to be responsible for any hack that you might see. What he did was simple, he only discovered a certain, magical code with no actual value and threw it at the internet to see what a few guys would do with it. He's not the one that developed pirating devices, nor he incites people to pirate. What he did may or may not be harmful, but it's not his responsability if it turns out to be the former.

Then again, just saying.

@KingDustero

You may have a point there, yet, are you CERTAIN he "stole" them? He probably simply discovered them, and, as I said before, threw 'em all over the internet. That's not illegal, one could argue; hell, had the guy not been such an attention whore and he could've gotten away with it pretty easily.

Then again, the Copyright laws are pretty bullshittingly bothersome, so who cares.

As I said, though, it's honestly up to the court to see what to do with this case.

rdgneoz32826d ago

"suing 'im is like giving a gun manufacturer charges of murder"

So, if a gun manufacturer goes and throws out a bunch of loaded guns into the streets for random people to pick up and use, and announces it is doing that; if those people go and shoot other people / commit crimes with the guns, should the manufacturer not be held responsible to some degree?

shoddy2826d ago (Edited 2826d ago )

I was stuck at the argument bout we can't blame gun makers cause they didn't force murderer to use thier guns.

now the geo mofo throw out loaded guns for the criminals.

Geofrodo will loose.

frostypants2826d ago

Nice one, rdgneoz3. Bubs.

Mahr2826d ago

"So, if a gun manufacturer goes and throws out a bunch of loaded guns into the streets for random people and announces it is doing that; if those people go and shoot other people / commit crimes with the guns... should the manufacturer not be held responsible to some degree?"

Very obviously not.

It is perfectly legal for someone to sell guns to any and all of those exact same random people no-questions-asked, without any fear of liability.

Why should selling at a low price -- or no price at all -- be any treated any differently?

Do you think someone that wants to shoot someone else is going to buy a gun and decide, 'Hey, wait, I paid a lot of money for this thing; guess I better not use it to hurt anyone'?

"now the geo mofo throw out loaded guns for the criminals."

So if geohot were selling his tools to anyone who could afford them, that would be fine, but giving them away for free is not? What?

shoddy2825d ago

now it's just proving it.

just like hiring a hitman.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 2825d ago
despair2826d ago

Its nothing like a gun manufacturer being held liable for murder. He's not creating a product for multipurpose use that may or may not cause harm, what he's doing is actively corrupting a safe system to show he can, which is fine up to that point but then he also releases all pertinent data and instructions on how someone can replicate it and exploit the same system for malicious purposes.

Gun manufacturers don't actively look for murderers and psychopaths to sell their guns to, in fact there are safety procedures that try(and fail) to prevent that and security(Police) who actively crack down on those who misuse the weapon.

Using the same analogy if a Gun Manufacturer actively give known murderers guns that they then use to...well...kill people, they will be held responsible for those deaths as well. GeoHot actively released the information necessary to exploit the PS3 in communities that are known to take advantage and pirate games and then hides behind the "I just did it to show I could and put it out there, I didn't use it maliciously" mentality which if dealing with the case I presented above would be laughable in a court.

KingDustero2826d ago

Is stealing legal? He stole the root keys for the PS3, which Sony has a copyright on. Devs have to PAY Sony to use the root keys.

That right there is illegal and is enough reason to throw his ass in jail.

Proxy2826d ago

The key is a number. You can copyright a number.

Those who wish to better understand the topic before disagreeing might enjoy reading this: http://www.cacr.math.uwater...

JD_Shadow2826d ago

How can you "steal" a number?

RememberThe3572826d ago

Did you actually ask that question?

GameSpawn2826d ago

In using ANY of Sony's own code in his custom firmware then yes he blatantly broke copyright law and it is VERY much illegal.

By utilizing Sony's keys to crack and modify Sony's PS3 firmware without Sony's consent, not only is he violating someones copyright, but he is also doing so with what could be considered stolen property (in this case stolen "intellectual" property in the form of the keys).

Now had George and the rest of the hackers accomplished all this lovely custom firmware business without using a single iota of Sony's code or keys, they would have basis for their arguments and Sony would have nothing on them. However, this is not the case, nor would it ever have been the case due to the "catch 22" security in the PS3.

The hackers never could completely bypass the SPE security vault without legitimate signed code. Once Sony's keys were leaked (stolen) hackers could now get past the SPE security and start breaking the hyper visor apart. However the unspeakable happened, Sony created a white-list and issued new keys forcing the SPE to police the system yet again and kill the hackers' code. The hackers are now stuck and pissed and doing everything they can to get attention and make Sony cave, but Sony is effectively calling their bluff.

People need to remember, ANY and ALL software is the copyright owners and they choose what people can and cannot do with it. The only thing that is yours when you buy the PS3 is the "physical" components. All the software that runs those components is still Sony's and you are being "licensed" to use it when you agree to the SYSTEM'S terms of service when the PS3 is initially setup and also the revised terms at each firmware upgrade. You violate those terms, Sony has their god given right to revoke your license.

Frankly, Other OS was not an advertised feature. It was a promoted bonus that was added to the system in a firmware update after launch. Features are things that are CORE to the systems functionality and usually ship with the system. Truthfully the only real CORE feature to the PS3 as a game console is the ability to play PS3 and PSN games. Even Blu-Ray movie playback is technically a BONUS that Sony could easily choose to remove; this also includes PS2 and PS1 game playability. Given that PS3 games utilize Blu-Ray media, removal of Blu-Ray movie playback would be EXTREMELY unlikely. Regardless, Sony still gave Other OS users an option, either have Other OS and no more continued PlayStation gaming support (fine for Linux PS3s being used for legitimate research) or give up Linux and continue to play future PS3/PSN games and make use of new features such as 3D support.

In short, what I'm trying to say is that all the hackers arguments are completely baseless. They need to wake up and realize they can't have their cake (custom firmware) and eat it too (PSN access).

Rhythmattic2826d ago

^^ Most excellent post. +

XabiTheHumble2826d ago

Very well said sir + bubbles

Death2826d ago

That is overly simplified. If Sony marketed the machine as a dual purpose machine that played games and functioned as a PC then later decided to take one of these features away, it would be more like a bait and switch tactic. Sony knew a $599 game console was a tough sell so they promoted it's ability to run another OS, play PS1 and PS2 games along with playing Blu-ray movies. Sony killed backward compatability for new consoles and later removed other OS when the slim launched. For new purchases these features didn't apply so it really is no harm, no foul. For people that paid a premium for launch consoles, taking any of these features away reduces the initial value and may have altered their decisions. Sony should have found an alternative solution for their problem. Removing other OS did not stop hacking, it just screwed the people that used the feature. If this feature made a significant impact on your decision to buy a PS3 at a premium price then it really wasn't right.

-Death

teething2826d ago

Gamespawn is correct.

thank you.

GameSpawn2826d ago

@Death

Again, legitimate Linux users were given a choice. Linux users that still wanted to retain PS3 functionality and Linux at the same time are the only ones screwed, but they could have easily just purchased a new PS3 to use just for games while retaining their Linux PS3.

Sure, that may seem unfair, but blame George and the others for screwing around with what should have not been screwed with. The hackers kept pushing and made PS3 Linux a liability with the PSN forcing Sony to cut it.

The PS3 never has been advertised as a gaming console and PC. The Other OS functionality was NEVER directly advertised. The only directly advertised features outside of the gaming features were the media and Blu-Ray features.

Also, PS1 and PS2 backwards compatibility was also not directly advertised. Both backwards compatibility and Other OS were word of mouth features advertised by fans and media, not Sony themselves via personally funded TV and magazine ads.

Also, if you carefully read the lovely terms of service that you agree to when you setup the system and re-agree to with each update, Sony cannot be held accountable for ANY software services that they choose to discontinue. They are only required that your hardware function physically as intended within the specified warranty period.

Because of the fact you are being licensed use of Sony's PS3 software (NOT OWNERSHIP), Sony has all the right in the world to what portions of the software you are and are not allowed to use as well as addition or removal of features at their discretion. At least with Other OS they still allowed Linux users to retain their Other OS, just at the cost of their Game OS; they could have just forced the update, bypassed the agreement and removed Other OS for EVERYONE...PERIOD, but they didn't...you could still refuse the update.

Death2826d ago

I own all the software that I have purchased. The reason I say this is due to the fact I can sell it if I don't want it anymore. I paid for and received the finished product which includes the private use and ownership. I cannot alter the software and resell it as my own work. Software molding is not something new to the industry.

Who owns the hardware? I paid a retailer $599 for my PS3. It's not a lease and I didn't buy a license. I own the hardware. The same rule applies, I can sell it to someone as a pre-owned PS3, but I can't hang fuzzy dice off the side and market it as the Deathstation 3. If George wants to hack his system so all the characters in his game are named George, that is his right. Sony can ban him from PSN under the ToU, but that's about it. This is how Mucrosoft handles tampering. The can of worms opened up when George decided to bypass Sonys security measures and then published it.

As for backwards compatibility and other OS being advertised by Sony, this was done when their execs decided to make announcements and state it in interviews for mags and web sites. Just because we didn't see it on tv doesn't mean the information was not there. They used the information to gain sales which is what most of us call advertising.

Typically when a manufacturer uses their legal right to piss their customers off it is labeled as bad business. Sony is very fortunate more people enjoy it than their are people that don't. It all boils down to what was said earlier, if you are unhappy then don't buy the product. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Sony no longer leads this market.

-Death

Rhythmattic2823d ago (Edited 2823d ago )

Death

You are so right...

You do own the console. Do with it what you want, and reading your posts, I think you should write an os.

It will solve all of your problems...

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 2823d ago
Focker4202826d ago

Not only is it illegal to steal copyrighted material, but it is also illegal to reproduce copyrighted material. Which is exactly what he did, regardless of who stole it in the first place.

Mahr2826d ago (Edited 2826d ago )

Whoops, double post.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 2823d ago
Alpha_Gamer2826d ago

Jaffe will always slap you right back into place if you step out of line, lol love that.

fight4lov2826d ago

tell that to everyone whos gonna download twisted metal

Alpha_Gamer2826d ago

Meh, after seeing the recent GT5 sales numbers, it`s pretty clear the pirating isn`t going to do shit, to be frank.

StbI9902826d ago (Edited 2826d ago )

Dev should start filling the fuck outta bluray to its fullest, 50GB per each ps3 games out there, and lets see if your lovely EVERYONE gonna download crap withouth thinking in even buying the game UuU, blatant pirates fckers...

Hope sony comes with something along the line.

divideby02826d ago

yea enough of these articles about this loser....

Op242826d ago

it's funny how everything piracy involved is allowed to be posted on N4G. All anyone's doing is advertising it just like the Crysis 2 leak. OMG it's leaked gotta tell the world about it now! Smart nerds around here.

Eamon2826d ago

N4G isn't the only place in the world you know?

lol.