Dark Souls: Is Harder Better?

Dark Souls is announced, and will be even harder than its predecessor. Is this necessarily a good thing? We want to know what you think.

[Chug]

Bring it.

[Nitrowolf2]

i'm hoping reviewers actually give the game a chance rather then quit and complain the games to hard. Demon Soul wasn't even that hard if you actually took your time getting souls and better armor/weapons. I think reviewers were just expecting a get up and go type of game where you can just blast right through the game without having any difficulty.

[Blaine]

Weren't the reviews for DS overwhelmingly positive though? I mean, with a new IP, you never know, but DS was so praised across the board--I think that's the reason I got it in the first place. Oh, also because I wanted to brave the challenge!

As for Dark Souls... What Chug said!

Gonna be one of the best games this gen. :D

[Lawliet]

don't worry it will get 9-10 all over. This time for sure, it is multiplat.

[dillydadally]

To me it all depends on whether it really is harder or if it's just more punishing. No one seems to understand the difference between "hard" and "punishing". I love a good hard game. A game should be challenging. But Demon's Souls wasn't even that hard of a game. Instead, it was a PUNISHING game. It was a cheap game. You open a treasure chest and you get poisoned and don't have anything to heal yourself. You die. You lose everything. You turn around a corner and there is an enemy cheaply placed in the dark in a corner that your auto aim can't lock onto quick enough. You get all the way through a long level, only to get bowled over by a trap you had no reason to believe was there and then have to go all the way through the level again, hoping not to die again or you'll lose everything you worked for.

Why is this good? Why do you want to be punished so much? Do other people just have more time to burn? I would love if it really was harder but less punishing.

Bring on the hard, leave out the repetitiveness of playing the whole level over again, being stressed out you might die and lose all your money, and working through a trial and error level.

[AKS]

Some of those whiny reviewers were probably expecting their typical speedrun through the game on "easy" so they could delivery their custody "too short and flawed" hackneyed nonsense and found that the game was kicking their asses. I'd love to see a video of their first encounter with the Flamelurker and Maneaters. LOL! I also hope they were among my invasion victims.

[JoySticksFTW]

Uh... please tell me at what point in Demon's Souls this happened? I honestly don't remember this happening.

"You turn around a corner and there is an enemy cheaply placed in the dark in a corner that your auto aim can't lock onto quick enough."

What? First off, use a shield when rounding corners. And second, learn to fight without locking on. You're depending on auto-aim for every encounter? That's why you got dealt with. You lack skill, but cry "teh cheapness!!11!1"

"You get all the way through a long level, only to get bowled over by a trap you had no reason to believe was there"

Again, when did this happen?

You mean the open pit at the very beginning of the first stage? Or the boulder at the top of the stairs near the beginning of the first stage? Or maybe you mean the broken floor boards at the beginning of world 5? Seriously, what supposed traps were you finding at the very end of stages?

I'm starting to think that you really didn't even play this game. Or now you're coming on here crying, because DS broke you down so bad.

I don't mind people saying that they tried DS, and they stopped because it was a bit too hard for them or it's not their thing or whatever.

But don't come on here crying, making up stories through your tears and putting it forth as truth.

Have some dignity, man!

@AKS

The videos of people rage-quitting DS when it first came out were hilarious! I still love watching DS playthroughs :)

[NoobSessions]

As long as the difficulty of it makes sense, and its not hard just to be hard, then its great to me. I want that game every once in a while that can truly challenge you.

[TheDivine]

Yea if they wanted to change it i say make it equal with demons souls and have the tendencys effect the difficulty even more so if you die alot it gets easier until you stop dying then progressively harder, let noobs play white, pros black. Ds wasnt hard it just was one the games where you had to learn from mistakes and evrything was skill based.

[Kos-Mos]

You`re absolutely right my friend; "As long as it makes sense."
Playing halo campaign or gears or anything on hard and insane etc. doesn`t make sense.
It`s about what the game was meant to be played on (difficulty) according to the core gameplay.
Adding more and stronger enemies and less life for you makes no sense.
+Bubble

[AbyssGravelord]

"the harder the better" - what she said

[Tex117]

You said it all.

[Darkfiber]

Why do game "journalists" always have to find fault with everything? They said the game would be harder, and people complain. If they said the game would be easier, people would complain and say that an easier difficulty would take away with what made Demon's Souls so special. If they said it was the same difficulty, they would be either blaming 360 owners for From Software not making the game harder than Demon's Souls because PS3 owners were already used to the difficulty, or that the devs weren't changing the game enough by keeping the same difficulty and that, in a "franchise" so centered around difficulty, the fact that it wasn't increased in the next game is a fault.

Whine whine whine. The game isn't even that hard. All attacks from enemies are avoidable if you are good enough. If you do get hit, you are usually dead in 2 or 3 hits. You know what other game kills you in 2 or 3 hits? Mario. That's right, that little kiddy game you played when you were 4 years old has the same difficulty as Demon's Souls. Both games are based around the concept of playing each level over and over and through trial and error, figuring out how to best beat the level, where to go and when to go there, what attacks to use on which enemies, etc etc. Oh but Mario even had a limited amount of lives, and Demon's Souls has unlimited lives. Hey guess what, Mario is harder!

Grow a pair and stop bitching that the game doesn't hold your hand like every other game out there these days. No one had a problem beating games like Mario (and much harder ones) back in the day, why is it such a big deal now? Most 8 hour games these days hold your hand so much that they never want you to die, because it would interrupt the flow of their made-for-tv-movie quality story.

[frjoethesecond]

The reason you see these conflicting views is because everyone has a different opinion. Some will want it to be the same others harder etc.
The reason it seems, for people complaining no matter what the situation is because those with a problem speak the loudest and those who are happy will say very little.

Therefore people always complain because the complaints drown out the positive views.

[AKS]

Well said. Almost every modern game is ridiculously easy. Give us our few games with some actual challenge and leave the difficulty alone.

I've been a gamer for many years, and the old school games were much harder. Try Shadow of the Beast 2, Battletoads, and others and then try to tell me Demon's Souls was too difficult. DS's difficulty was one of the best things about it.

[JD_Shadow]

I agree that games need to be more challenging and engaging.

However, what you may not have gotten is that there is a such thing as genuine challenge, in that the challenge fits the environment and is balanced in such a way that it puts your knowledge of the game's mechanics to the test, and cheap difficulty, in which the game is padded with difficult things that leave you with no way to deal with the dangers and the risk being too high for the reward. Cheap difficulty is when you just add difficulty for the sake of being difficult, or if you put in a game mechanic and don't ever give the player any way to defend against it, or which leaves them wondering what in the hell they could've possibly done about it.

You want the genuine challenge. You don't want the cheapness. Thing is, the definition of what qualifies as one or the other varies from player to player. But it can be blatantly obvious at some times when a game is more difficult than it has to be, or when something is facerolling you. And you can tell when someone is just whining one way or the other, and when there is a legit gripe about something being way too difficult or way too easy.

[AKS]

Demon's Souls is an exemplar for difficulty that is NOT cheap. When a player dies, it's almost always because of the player's lack of skill or a mistake the player made. There is indeed some trial and error to the gameplay, but that's how it should be if you're exploring haunted dungeons and unknown, cursed territories. Every enemy can consistently be defeated by improving your skill.

For an example of the opposite (i.e., extreme cheapness), check out many of the modern fighting games, especially that bastard Seth in Street Fighter or Jinpachi from Tekken.

[rob_gamestribe]

Erm, we weren't whining. We were asking whether or not people enjoy a more challenging gaming experience, and if so, why. Apparently you do, so well done.

[Darkfiber]

I was simply pointing out that no matter what From Software said about the difficulty in Dark Souls, there would be an article saying that it's the wrong thing to do. You and I both know that; that's just how these things work. Devil's Advocate creates controversy, which in turn leads to more discussion and, dare I say, more site traffic.

[AKA]

Sometimes harder is better but a well balanced paste is much better and that why this game is great "if is like DS"
I guess i forgive from S. im getting this bb day one .

[Enate]

A well balanced pace is only susceptible to one's personal experience with the game. Not everyone is as good as the next man. I think its important to find that right amount. An if the first game had it right there is no problem giving the people that experience again. I believe Dead Space's team had this right when the kept the difficulty right where they had it just about.

Every game isn't about trying to see if they can make you throw a controller through a window. An not every experience needs to be that way. Some people have to realize that dying in one hit doesn't make it fun for everyone.

[AKA]

I was talking about Demons souls
we are in a Dark Demons news after all.

[Gamer_Z]

Harder! Dude I could barley handle the first one =/
haha but i guess thats what made it fun.

[femshep]

YES we do not want our hands held while playing a game =D the only thing that is making the game hard is the person playing meaning if you don't think and don't pay attention you WILL end up dead =D oh demon souls i love you

[Red_Phoenix]

The harder the better is what the ladies say :p

[Gamer_Z]

Lol

[EVO-OM3GA]

I dont care about difficulty, so long as the game is balanced and I dont die from catching a cold im game!

BRING IT ON!!! (Says it Like Joe from Family Guy)

[SSKILLZ]

Read the interview on the ps blog , great read , it's gonna be hard but hard not to be just hard, its will be More about trial and error and strategizing on how to overcome a obstacle , co-op sounds like blast

[SwampCroc]

I think so. I remember games like the original Ghouls N Ghosts being hard as hell... Than games evolved got different difficulty levels.. all types of things. I think it's refreshing because you have to somewhat actually plan out what you're going to do because it's that damn difficult.

either way I think it will be a good game. but to advance you're going to have to be dedicated.

[Blaine]

Wait, wait, wait... This reminds me: Demon's Souls doesn't *really* get hard until you start a NG+!! lol the game actually takes it easy on you the first time around! So will Dark Souls be harder than NG, or NG+? O_o

(To be fair though, once you get to NG+ you're familiar with the game, so although it really is harder, you're prepared for it this time.)

[Kos-Mos]

NG+ was really tough, I admit that, but ++ and +++ were easier.

[Blaine]

Well, not "easier", since the difficulty increased each time you started a new game on the same file, just that the difficulty jump each time was less significant than the one from NG to NG+.

Also you became more and more familiar with the game, which made it easier, and after a few NG+s you got to the point where your soul level could actually make you OP--at 190+SL, the game's a lot easier! :P

[Kos-Mos]

Ok, but you got more souls and more powerful weapons after NG+ so you should be more ok. Of course you`re more familiar as you said.

[Lirky]

No difficulty should not be added to dark souls that way u can dodge and strategize your way thru it like demons souls :).

[The_Quiet_Man]

That headline, must fight urge to make suggestive sexual references lol.

@ Blaine - I'm stuck on NG+ the bosses take very little damage from my character & then of course I get careless. Took me 7- 8 mins to kill a couple of bosses on NG +, bought an imported chinese version so I rarely get any help from blue phantoms. I'll probably have to grind alot to beat it. Although in my defence lol I've never played an RPG game till DS. I still like the challenge the game brings.

Can't wait to hear & see more about Dark Souls, I'll be definitely buying it. This time I think I'll wait for Euro release since the game is suppose to be tougher than DS, I'll probably need a 3 some to help me (that headline, no).

[josephayal]

Demon souls for my PS3 and Dark souls for my Xbox 360 :)

[Lastlivingsoul]

They are trying to find a bigger audience for this game by taking it multiplatform. That concerns me. Aside from a handful of EA and Rockstar games, exclusives (regardless of console) are almost always better games. I hope not too much is lost, creatively, in the transition. With that said, I can't wait for this to come out, the trailer looks amazing, i'll buy it day one with no questions asked. Funny thing is, I'll probably end up picking it up for 360, just to give my poor ps3 a break.

[monkeyfox]

Harder IS better.. as long as its not repetitive hard. I adored original demons souls and didnt find it so hard that i stopped playing..

[GamerPS360]

dead space 2 hardcore is harder than demon soul :) but Dead Space 2 hardcore is frustrating hard while Demon Soul is fun hard.

[Tex117]

Demon's Souls just required you to take it slow and be patient....That's all. Yes some bosses were "Hard" I'm looking at you Flamelurker, ManEater, but the game merely required a slow pace. Nothing is cheap....nothing...when you scream you will scream at yourself...The game is VERY fair which is the brillance of the design.

I, for one, hope that the "Hard" part the developer is talking about is less about the design of the enemies, but more on the fact that this is an open world. In Demon's Souls, there is one thing you could could count on. When you cleared an area, it was clear...your back was safe. Shields up, press forward...this was due to the dungeon(y) game design.

With an open world design, things are much more likely to come at you from all directions. So long as FromSoftware at least gives us a chance to perceive these encounters...and not just kill us for no good reason then we took a step forward, then I'm all for it.