TQcast writes: How is it possible to play PS3 quality games without the capacity of a Blu-Ray? This is how.
.....Blu-ray is a STORAGE medium. Blu-ray stores the info, the disc drive reads the data, CPU/GPU processes the data. Only in more extreme cases like Megatextures does the data size capabilities affect graphics. Besides, hasn't Sony been sort of hush-hush on their new "flash memory based card"? Sure, I think it's safe to assume that it doesn't hold blu-ray proportion sizes, but we don't know how much it holds.
Blu-ray generally just helps deliver uncompressed content such as video and audio for most games or in some cases add more content such as demos or some exclusive Content. Sony hasn't announced the details about NGP next Media Format, other than that it will be Memory based. But I don't think space will be a problem for developers. I mean, this is a hand held, you don't need to output graphics to 720p cause the screen is small nor does the game have to have 5.1/7.1 sound quality. When you take all that out, you'll have ton's of space as a result. Though I think Sony should just offer multiple sizes with their next media format for developers. So that, small developers can pay cheap to use a small size format, while major developers can pay to use a big size format for big games much like using a single layer blu-ray to a dual layered blu-ray.
It's fairly safe to assume launch games on the NGP will be limited to 2/4GB of storage. Sony announced they would allow games on the NGP to used a limited amount of data on release and expand that limit over time. Nintendo used the same idea with the DS, and it works rather well it means games will improve generally over time, I think on launch of the DS gamers where limited to 64meg. Then they expanded to 256/512 currently I believe. It allows games to look even better as the console life cycle goes on, sort of a limiter for the system really. So on launch you really won't see anything like the full potential of the NGP, because I will be honestly surprised if launch games are allowed more then 2GB of storage.
Manufacturing costs of a 16GB flash drive really aren't very high at all. Plus, without Master-quality 7.1 channel audio, there's really not much need for 8+ gigs.
With 16gb cards going for as low as $20 at retail it's likely only costing them $2-5 to manufacture. By the time the NGP ships it will probably be half that. It wasn't that long ago that I was paying $200 for 1gb cards, now I can buy 32gb cards for low as $50.
Same, those media won't release smaller than UMDs today. 2G min, I rather think they will go DVD or dual DVD size (4-8GB initially). That would match a BD with a quarter storage. Quite possible. (10-20GB over time, or 50 later).
@dragun619 sry ryudo but I don't see how games like that uncharted would fit in a mere 2/4GB strategy. It is not like 8GB memory card are any expensive now a days that would indeed be the perfect size for the format and is what nintendo will actually USE.
544p video not 1080p or 720p during cutscenes. 2 channel 2.0 audio not 8 channel 7.1 uncompressed sound. That alone can be a treat in a big screen with a surround system but there is no need for it on the NGP... This reduction alone can save dozens of gygabites on some games.
The games might have been better on Mini blu rays but I'd rather have bigger battery life.
Why do people keep thinking that "PS3 quality" graphics always have to have the same horsepower and specs as a PS3? The NGP is 960x544 resolution and doesn't need the same specs! Had it been 1280x720 or above, then yes it may need a lot more than a quad core ARM CPU.
@Sarcasm, Exactly! Earlier reports state that since it doesn't need to produce resolutions for large screen TVs, they'll be able to provide a much higher quality image in relation to the screen size. In addition, they'll easily be able to increase things like frame rate and AA to provide a much better picture overall. So... in a sense, it's comparable to a "Scaled-Down" PS3. Which is what everyone is failing to articulate. -EDIT- @Ryudo, It's sad that you're getting so many disagrees, when in truth: No console ever shows full potential until after several years of working with the format. Come on people, play nice--r!
You don't have to deliver Lossless audio, but also no need to stream high res textures, like ps3 (little screen, smaller resolution = no need for bluray)
Even Kojima said it wasn't PS3 Graphics... The MGS scene shown was at lower res and at 20 FPS.... Thats what Kojima said. However, for a handheld it is impressive... But the power of a PS3 or 360? I think not.
performance doesn't have anything with storage. Still those were same textures models , shaders etc. And still it was a port in only a week. Without optymalisation...
Those were launch titles/demos. It isn't obviously as strong as PS3 but provides PS3 equivalent experience in a handheld format.
Yep , a tech demo it was, impressive it is.
But can it run 2006 PS3 games? And MGS4 demo video had just a week of optimizing. The demo they showed was a multiplatform ported tech demo. If it was built from the ground up FOR the NGP perhaps it could do 30FPS. PS3 graphics? Maybe games that run at 1080p on PS3 can run at 544p on NGP. Or games that run at 60fps on 720p might be able to run at 30fps on 480p which is still a lot for 5 inch screens.
It was also said that it was only ported in a week or two? I'm pretty sure if they designed it from the ground up, they could achieve the same visual fidelity as the PS3 MGS4.
"But the power of a PS3 or 360? I think not." PS3 power? no 360 power? yes
This is a pathetic article, ever heard of downloading a PSN game? You can download Warhawk from the PSN store, or buy the blu-ray edition. No difference?
QUALITY not CAPACITY.. Plus SD cards on the market atm can hold upto 64gb.. We know that sony will be using a modified version designed for the psp2. Like i said though games of a ps3 quality not size.
Well. Capacity have something to do with quality. RAW/BMP vs JPEG. Uncompressed > compressed. I dont think it is SD cards Sony put their games on would be too easy to copy games. And who knows how big the PS Flash cards will be. I guess 4-8 GB. Flash units are quite expensive compared to discs.
in graphical terms yes.. But build quality and product quality are different from that. And they've stated(like i said) they would be using a modified SD card type format.
This should be called, "PS3 Quality Games on NGP Without Cell."
As long as physical media is used bluray will be around for a longtime. There are no storage issues. @HOC Carmack used the megatexture Rage engine on an IPhone game. If they go to PS Suite and Android devices expect something special from them to show how its done. Carmack seems to like the tech of NGP.
@HolyOrangeCows I was going to say those exact same words in your 1st sentence..word for word. tqcast.com - WTF?, No
70$ portable hand held games, for the amount of time to develop and the cost to have 4gb+ memory like cards. -battery life 4-6 hours and i hear no complaints for that yet.... this is gonna be one expensive system total cost wise. ill save my skepticism for when more info is released.
ngp looks like is gonna be awesome i love the dual analog sticks now i wish they would add another pair of shoulder buttons like the playstation controllers, more intense gaming=]
exactly to top it off most games dont even come close to half way to filling up the single layer bluray disc
Yes the Blu-ray is a storage format but it also is the medium used to transport information to the CPU/GPU and it does actually hinder the PS3 in its speed of transfer. The NGP with the card should be able to help bypass the issues that Blu-ray brings and possably improve on that portion of what the PS3 has to offer. EDIT: actually what yewles1 said below. (just saw his comment after my reply)
1. It's NOT PS3 quality, it's barely close to first gen 360 graphics. 2. The cartridge media is A LOT faster than the 2x BD Drive in the PS3, eliminating the need for duplicate data for seek times, combined with using only 2 channel audio, making games MUCH smaller. 3. 960 x 544 resolution also factors in... think about it.
No, it's barely close to PS3 graphics. It surpasses 360 graphics. 3DS is also a little under (if not also surpassing) 360's graphics (look at DoA:D for example).
You Are Retarded, Look At Far Cry 2 Or Metro 2033 On Xbox 360 & Then Look At 3DS & PSP2 Far Cry 2 On Xbox 360 : http://www.youtube.com/watc... 3DS : http://www.youtube.com/watc... PSP2 : http://www.youtube.com/watc... , Xbox 360 Graphics Are Miles Ahead
Comparing a handheld to a current generation home console... Wow, just... wow. I mean don't get me wrong it looks really good in comparison to the console games and it looks amazing for a handheld but you just can't compare it to a powerful home console and say its better.
people will disagree with you but check out what John Carmak had to say about the Ipad: id Software: iPad power can beat Wii, some Xbox 360 games He agreed with initial Rage HD players that the Apple tablet can produce better results than any Wii game and about a quarter of Xbox 360 titles. Both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 have "several times" more power, Kotaku was told, but many games waste the power where the iPad is only beginning to grow. Read more: http://www.electronista.com... here is the thing, the NGP processor an GPU dwarfs the capabilities of the ipad's processor an GPU many times over! so yes it does. when they said that it get's near PS3 they were telling the truth!
I agree to put it into terms. xbox 360 is quite old. a computer from 4 years ago is more powerful than one. the 3ds MAY Not be as powerful as an xbox but sony claims that its 4times as powerful as a 3DS, and the 3Ds is more powerful than a psp. the psp2 is ps3 quality graphics but it has to display those graphics on a tiny screen. the 3Ds will provide close to 360 graphics with the tricks that game devs have. for instance look at last story thats running off the wii and i am sure it can run off the 3DS because all current systems are old technology and technology advances every 6-18 months. so a chip to day will be more advanced than a chip from 5 years ago and thus more capable.
ok wtf psp or 3ds is not stronget then the 360 lets not be stupid oh and i hate 360 i think it sucks but its no reason to be hard headed
It can run MGS4, how can you say it's barely close to 360 graphics? lol It's also capable of running the latest multi-plats such as BlackOps and more. Don't get me wrong i know the home consoles are overall when taking into account all factors, but the psp2 is still damn impressive and graphically can match alot of games that run on current gen home consoles and thats FACT.
As great looking as MGS4 is, it's at 1024 x 768 (XGA) resolution, he just made it manage to squeeze it in with no optimizations and it chugged at 20fps and below. And BTW, the PS3 version of Black Ops is 960 x 544.
Yewles1 you do understand 960*544 resolution on a 5 inch screen with the specs of the system some games may look on the 5 inch screen better than some 360 and PS3 games? You have to account for the fact that developers don't have to go fo 1280*720 or anything like that they may be able to do more because there is a lot of horsepower and lower resolution. I would venture to say that if they release a multiplatform release for all three systems like NBA 2K or the S vs R 2012 or something it may look better on the NGP than the other systems. If the engine is common like Unreal engine or the smackdown engine I see the NGP looking the best because of the screen size and resolution alone. That is a great resolution for the screen size. On complicated engines like UC and Killzone yes the PS3 will outperform it however with optomization and familliarity comes the wizardry so I suspect that the best playing and looking Wipeout game will be on the NGP. This system could be something special.
Correct that it might look better on the smaller screen. And if I was to code a game for the PS3 or 360 to fit the screen of the NGP then it would look miles ahead of current graphics. The question (which is probably a mute point due to hearing no compatability coming) is what would the graphics look like when linked from the NGP to a widescreen? Not good at all... and definetly NOT close to the PS3 or 360. EDIT: and once again I post and see a similar remark right below mine. I should read first before posting. But Parapraxis is ignorant to think that it is 360 or PS3 quality if it is viewed in a smaller format. It is NOT... you have to compare quality based on equal resolutions not native resolutions. Once again... PS3 and 360 would blow NGP out of the water if running at NGP resolution.
Like you said it is a mute point. As you know the specifications are what they are and what ifs are just that aswell. However, what you will get will be close to what you can from the HD consoles on the screen that the portable is designed on. I can tell you their will be a lot of jaws that will drop when this is released. The system is quite powerful.
"3. 960 x 544 resolution also factors in... think about it." I think it's you yewles1 , who is not thinking about it lol Let me rephrase: It's NOT quite PS3 quality, it's nearly on par or better than some 360 graphics due to the fact it's on a 960 x 544 resolution screen. Graphics are measured in their native format. If you scale NDP images up to a 42" TV sure they will look blocky, in turn, If I were to hook a 360 up to a jumbotron, the images would also look blocky. What matters is how they look with their intended setup and native resolution.
Talking from using an OLED screen on my phone for over a year... When people see me watching 135mb episodes of How I Met Your Mother on my phone they ask me... wow is that HD? OLEDs are just amazing eyecandy screens I can't wait till they manage to make them bigger.
Here are my responses to your points. 1. It is of PS3's quality. Just on a smaller screen. Producing at 960x544 is just half the pixels on a 1080p screen, therefore rendering is cut by HALF. A ton of 9.99 Gold does not make a 1 pound of 9.99 Gold's quality less - it's still 9.99 gold.. only on a smaller scale. In other words, you don't need an equivalent amount of power of the PS3 to produce that quality on a smaller resolution. 2. Many PS3 exclusive does NOT duplicate data. An example would be Uncharted: DF where Balestra explicitly states they don't use "duplicated" data. http://www.maxconsole.net/c... 3. Resolution is the amount of pixels on screen. As stated on point #1, 960 x 544 is HALF the resolution of a 1080p. Since it uses a 5" screen as opposed to the standard 32" inch TV, the resolution is HIGHER then then PSP2's screen itself (therefore making it HD or full HD) -End of Line
"The term “display resolution” is usually used to mean pixel dimensions, the number of pixels in each dimension (e.g., 1920×1200), which does not tell anything about the resolution of the display on which the image is actually formed: resolution properly refers to the pixel density, the number of pixels per unit distance or area, not total number of pixels." "In digital measurement, the display resolution would be given in pixels per inch." What does this mean? Your 5" screen versus 32" screen might be a bit misleading. Shrinking a 1080p down to a 5" screen does not make it look better then a 32" screen. A 32" screen has MORE pixels on screen then a 5" screen at same resolution. But the computing power to present a 5" screen viewing is much less demanding then that of the 32" view given similar references. Your eyes will see less issues with a smaller screen versus larger screen though.
Actually you may have ironically misinterpreted point #3 and at the same time stress my point exactly what you have stated. -End of Line
whoa, is it even possible to make a good game without blu-ra?
lol clearly he was joking disagreers
Since the NGP doesnt have to produce images at 720P not does it have to support 7.1 Surround sound. It doesnt need bluray
Small lower resolution monitors doesn't need excess detail to look detailed and it would be a waste of space to use uncompressed sound for portable gaming. There's no problem really.
". As you can see from the video below the game appears to be the PS3 version of Metal Gear Solid 4, possibly showing off the remote play features" Pretty sure Kojima said it was a port he'd knocked up so it was running on NGP and some people at the event commented that some details on background textures had been lost but the character models were still as good as ps3's. Tbh though although bluray allows a lot of storage I think it's safe to say a lot of bluray storage has actually been used for uncompressed audio/hd cutscenes etc etc i.e. it's more using the space that's available rather than needing it in most cases.
Agreed! "..As you can see from the video below the game appears to be the PS3 version of Metal Gear Solid 4, possibly showing off the remote play features." Lol, these guys have no clue. They think this was remote play.. Oh boy. And they mix storage capacity with GPU/CPU power. Most PS3 games do not use the bluray anyway, and obviously no HD video / audio is needed for the handheld device..
This device is nowhere close to hd consoles,who is pushing those stupid rumors?
A few terms for you to look up: Native Resolution Graphics Visual Perception
OMG this person who wrote this article please do your research WOW Blu-ray has nothing to do with it. Just look at PC, the best looking games only come on 1 DL-DVD: Crysis, Crysis Warhead and Metro 2033. PSP2 will be using a custom Memory Stick or Secure Digital where capacities are already at 64GB which puts Blu-ray out in the cold. On top of that these Flash storage mediums have exponential read speeds (133MB/s) compared to Blu-ray which is slower than USB 2.0s 25MB/s
ridiculous article...the title indicates a story about the GPU/CPU and storage medium of the NGP, but then goes on about the whole streaming hype. 1st of all PS3 quality games on NGP without a bluray has got to do with GPU/CPU and MEMORY capabilities not Storage, 2nd remote play with PSP is possible since the launch of PS3(you can stream games from PS3 and play it on ur PSP) so i highly doubt that Kojima was stupid enough to show the NGP streaming capabilities with the MGS4 showing...no he was actually showing a piece of MGS4 being ported to NGP running on NGP without being dumped down in graphical quality...so the HARDWARE of NGP is strong enough to run MGS4 quality games...3rd this cloud based saving has nothing to do with streaming whole games of servers etc i don't know were the journalist got that idea...SONY is a fiend of HARDWARE and too many people getting sucked into this whole cloud bubble thing....if internet goes down u can't play games that alone is enough to always keep some locally usable physical medium present in all possible futures.
Please buy a return key for your keyboard.
All i care about is getting a price,a launch date & the complete list of games coming out on NGP so i know when i can start making preorders.
i saw the conference videos. i was impressed by it. the touch screen below is quite nice. so was the demo of uncharted. golf game was wicked. now.. only if it could make calls.
Dude, the 1080p versus NGP's what? 400p? COME ON..
It may not be 1080p, but the screen size is small compared to a fucking 50" HD TV, therefore it will look great, obviously if you connect it to a TV it will differ, but we are talking about the PSP alone.
"With a STICK! STICK!" -KB- It is 960x544. NGP havent got as powerful hardware and doesnt support HD or surround. And Im sure the capacity on the flash cards wont be any bigger than DVD, atleast for some time. NGP is very comparable and amazingly powerful for being a handheld device though, Pherhaps powerful enough to run Kz2 with Stereo sound and at 960x544 res. Not completely sure though. DAY 1.
Well duh, obviously the games will be much smaller so they dont need that 30gig of space. Second, NGP games will not be in full hd.
Like how ISOs are to CSOs.. I am sure it's pretty simple to just think of Sony heavily compressing the files therefore fitting in significantly smaller capacity than BluRay Discs. With heavy compression comes with longer loading times not necessarily quality asset difference. Hopefully, terrible loading times are offset with NGP's RAM and computing power. BTW, I am not a tech genius and must have been just talking my azz off.
the storage medium is probably based off sdhc which is 8-32GBs or sdxc which is 32GBs-2TB :P, if sony put in a sdxc based slot it is also backward compatable with SD and SDHC. so there proprietary sd game format would be flexable in sizes for developers depending on space and cost.
Bla bla bla a handheld is inferior to consoles
Definitely buying this thing.
Is more PS 2.5