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PS3 Quality Games on NGP Without a Blu-Ray?

TQcast writes: How is it possible to play PS3 quality games without the capacity of a Blu-Ray? This is how.

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HolyOrangeCows2484d ago (Edited 2484d ago )

.....Blu-ray is a STORAGE medium. Blu-ray stores the info, the disc drive reads the data, CPU/GPU processes the data.

Only in more extreme cases like Megatextures does the data size capabilities affect graphics.

Besides, hasn't Sony been sort of hush-hush on their new "flash memory based card"? Sure, I think it's safe to assume that it doesn't hold blu-ray proportion sizes, but we don't know how much it holds.

Dragun6192484d ago

Blu-ray generally just helps deliver uncompressed content such as video and audio for most games or in some cases add more content such as demos or some exclusive Content.

Sony hasn't announced the details about NGP next Media Format, other than that it will be Memory based. But I don't think space will be a problem for developers. I mean, this is a hand held, you don't need to output graphics to 720p cause the screen is small nor does the game have to have 5.1/7.1 sound quality. When you take all that out, you'll have ton's of space as a result.

Though I think Sony should just offer multiple sizes with their next media format for developers. So that, small developers can pay cheap to use a small size format, while major developers can pay to use a big size format for big games much like using a single layer blu-ray to a dual layered blu-ray.

Ryudo2483d ago

It's fairly safe to assume launch games on the NGP will be limited to 2/4GB of storage.

Sony announced they would allow games on the NGP to used a limited amount of data on release and expand that limit over time.

Nintendo used the same idea with the DS, and it works rather well it means games will improve generally over time, I think on launch of the DS gamers where limited to 64meg.

Then they expanded to 256/512 currently I believe. It allows games to look even better as the console life cycle goes on, sort of a limiter for the system really.

So on launch you really won't see anything like the full potential of the NGP, because I will be honestly surprised if launch games are allowed more then 2GB of storage.

inveni02483d ago

Manufacturing costs of a 16GB flash drive really aren't very high at all. Plus, without Master-quality 7.1 channel audio, there's really not much need for 8+ gigs.

kneon2483d ago

With 16gb cards going for as low as $20 at retail it's likely only costing them $2-5 to manufacture. By the time the NGP ships it will probably be half that.

It wasn't that long ago that I was paying $200 for 1gb cards, now I can buy 32gb cards for low as $50.

Ju2483d ago (Edited 2483d ago )

Same, those media won't release smaller than UMDs today. 2G min, I rather think they will go DVD or dual DVD size (4-8GB initially). That would match a BD with a quarter storage. Quite possible. (10-20GB over time, or 50 later).

StbI9902483d ago

@dragun619 sry ryudo but I don't see how games like that uncharted would fit in a mere 2/4GB strategy.

It is not like 8GB memory card are any expensive now a days that would indeed be the perfect size for the format and is what nintendo will actually USE.

HappyGaming2483d ago

544p video not 1080p or 720p during cutscenes.
2 channel 2.0 audio not 8 channel 7.1 uncompressed sound.

That alone can be a treat in a big screen with a surround system but there is no need for it on the NGP...

This reduction alone can save dozens of gygabites on some games.

TheLastGuardian2483d ago

The games might have been better on Mini blu rays but I'd rather have bigger battery life.

Sarcasm2483d ago

Why do people keep thinking that "PS3 quality" graphics always have to have the same horsepower and specs as a PS3?

The NGP is 960x544 resolution and doesn't need the same specs! Had it been 1280x720 or above, then yes it may need a lot more than a quad core ARM CPU.

ChrisW2483d ago (Edited 2483d ago )

@Sarcasm,

Exactly!
Earlier reports state that since it doesn't need to produce resolutions for large screen TVs, they'll be able to provide a much higher quality image in relation to the screen size. In addition, they'll easily be able to increase things like frame rate and AA to provide a much better picture overall. So... in a sense, it's comparable to a "Scaled-Down" PS3. Which is what everyone is failing to articulate.

-EDIT-
@Ryudo,

It's sad that you're getting so many disagrees, when in truth: No console ever shows full potential until after several years of working with the format. Come on people, play nice--r!

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 2483d ago
Ifone2483d ago

You don't have to deliver Lossless audio, but also no need to stream high res textures, like ps3 (little screen, smaller resolution = no need for bluray)

Rhythmattic2483d ago

Even Kojima said it wasn't PS3 Graphics...

The MGS scene shown was at lower res and at 20 FPS.... Thats what Kojima said.

However, for a handheld it is impressive...

But the power of a PS3 or 360?

I think not.

Perkel2483d ago

performance doesn't have anything with storage. Still those were same textures models , shaders etc.

And still it was a port in only a week. Without optymalisation...

hay2483d ago

Those were launch titles/demos. It isn't obviously as strong as PS3 but provides PS3 equivalent experience in a handheld format.

Rhythmattic2483d ago

Yep , a tech demo it was, impressive it is.

HappyGaming2483d ago

But can it run 2006 PS3 games?
And MGS4 demo video had just a week of optimizing.

The demo they showed was a multiplatform ported tech demo.
If it was built from the ground up FOR the NGP perhaps it could do 30FPS.

PS3 graphics?
Maybe games that run at 1080p on PS3 can run at 544p on NGP.

Or games that run at 60fps on 720p might be able to run at 30fps on 480p which is still a lot for 5 inch screens.

Sarcasm2483d ago (Edited 2483d ago )

It was also said that it was only ported in a week or two? I'm pretty sure if they designed it from the ground up, they could achieve the same visual fidelity as the PS3 MGS4.

richard9192483d ago

"But the power of a PS3 or 360?

I think not."

PS3 power? no

360 power? yes

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 2483d ago
farhad2k82483d ago

This is a pathetic article, ever heard of downloading a PSN game?
You can download Warhawk from the PSN store, or buy the blu-ray edition. No difference?

xAlmostPro2483d ago

QUALITY not CAPACITY..

Plus SD cards on the market atm can hold upto 64gb..

We know that sony will be using a modified version designed for the psp2.

Like i said though games of a ps3 quality not size.

RevXM2483d ago

Well.
Capacity have something to do with quality.

RAW/BMP vs JPEG.
Uncompressed > compressed.

I dont think it is SD cards Sony put their games on would be too easy to copy games.
And who knows how big the PS Flash cards will be.
I guess 4-8 GB.
Flash units are quite expensive compared to discs.

xAlmostPro2483d ago

in graphical terms yes..

But build quality and product quality are different from that.

And they've stated(like i said) they would be using a modified SD card type format.

Godmars2902483d ago

This should be called, "PS3 Quality Games on NGP Without Cell."

pain777pas2483d ago

As long as physical media is used bluray will be around for a longtime. There are no storage issues. @HOC Carmack used the megatexture Rage engine on an IPhone game. If they go to PS Suite and Android devices expect something special from them to show how its done. Carmack seems to like the tech of NGP.

Parapraxis2483d ago

@HolyOrangeCows
I was going to say those exact same words in your 1st sentence..word for word.

tqcast.com - WTF?, No

fatstarr2483d ago

70$ portable hand held games, for the amount of time to develop and the cost to have 4gb+ memory like cards.

-battery life 4-6 hours and i hear no complaints for that yet....

this is gonna be one expensive system total cost wise.

ill save my skepticism for when more info is released.

princejb1342483d ago

ngp looks like is gonna be awesome
i love the dual analog sticks
now i wish they would add another pair of shoulder buttons like the playstation controllers, more intense gaming=]

smashman982483d ago

exactly to top it off most games dont even come close to half way to filling up the single layer bluray disc

Legion2483d ago (Edited 2483d ago )

Yes the Blu-ray is a storage format but it also is the medium used to transport information to the CPU/GPU and it does actually hinder the PS3 in its speed of transfer. The NGP with the card should be able to help bypass the issues that Blu-ray brings and possably improve on that portion of what the PS3 has to offer.

EDIT: actually what yewles1 said below. (just saw his comment after my reply)

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 2483d ago
yewles12484d ago

1. It's NOT PS3 quality, it's barely close to first gen 360 graphics.

2. The cartridge media is A LOT faster than the 2x BD Drive in the PS3, eliminating the need for duplicate data for seek times, combined with using only 2 channel audio, making games MUCH smaller.

3. 960 x 544 resolution also factors in... think about it.

Deathstroke2483d ago

No, it's barely close to PS3 graphics. It surpasses 360 graphics.

3DS is also a little under (if not also surpassing) 360's graphics (look at DoA:D for example).

Xbox360PS3AndPC2483d ago (Edited 2483d ago )

You Are Retarded, Look At Far Cry 2 Or Metro 2033 On Xbox 360 & Then Look At 3DS & PSP2 Far Cry 2 On Xbox 360 : http://www.youtube.com/watc... 3DS : http://www.youtube.com/watc... PSP2 : http://www.youtube.com/watc... , Xbox 360 Graphics Are Miles Ahead

Blacktric2483d ago (Edited 2483d ago )

Comparing a handheld to a current generation home console... Wow, just... wow. I mean don't get me wrong it looks really good in comparison to the console games and it looks amazing for a handheld but you just can't compare it to a powerful home console and say its better.

joeorc2483d ago (Edited 2483d ago )

people will disagree with you but check out what John Carmak had to say about the Ipad:

id Software: iPad power can beat Wii, some Xbox 360 games

He agreed with initial Rage HD players that the Apple tablet can produce better results than any Wii game and about a quarter of Xbox 360 titles. Both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 have "several times" more power, Kotaku was told, but many games waste the power where the iPad is only beginning to grow.

Read more: http://www.electronista.com...

here is the thing, the NGP processor an GPU dwarfs the capabilities of the ipad's processor an GPU many times over!

so yes it does. when they said that it get's near PS3 they were telling the truth!

fatstarr2483d ago

I agree to put it into terms.
xbox 360 is quite old. a computer from 4 years ago is more powerful than one.

the 3ds MAY Not be as powerful as an xbox but sony claims that its 4times as powerful as a 3DS, and the 3Ds is more powerful than a psp. the psp2 is ps3 quality graphics but it has to display those graphics on a tiny screen. the 3Ds will provide close to 360 graphics with the tricks that game devs have. for instance look at last story thats running off the wii and i am sure it can run off the 3DS because all current systems are old technology and technology advances every 6-18 months. so a chip to day will be more advanced than a chip from 5 years ago and thus more capable.

soren2483d ago

ok wtf psp or 3ds is not stronget then the 360 lets not be stupid oh and i hate 360 i think it sucks but its no reason to be hard headed

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 2483d ago
xAlmostPro2483d ago

It can run MGS4, how can you say it's barely close to 360 graphics? lol

It's also capable of running the latest multi-plats such as BlackOps and more.

Don't get me wrong i know the home consoles are overall when taking into account all factors, but the psp2 is still damn impressive and graphically can match alot of games that run on current gen home consoles and thats FACT.

yewles12483d ago

As great looking as MGS4 is, it's at 1024 x 768 (XGA) resolution, he just made it manage to squeeze it in with no optimizations and it chugged at 20fps and below. And BTW, the PS3 version of Black Ops is 960 x 544.

pain777pas2483d ago

Yewles1 you do understand 960*544 resolution on a 5 inch screen with the specs of the system some games may look on the 5 inch screen better than some 360 and PS3 games? You have to account for the fact that developers don't have to go fo 1280*720 or anything like that they may be able to do more because there is a lot of horsepower and lower resolution. I would venture to say that if they release a multiplatform release for all three systems like NBA 2K or the S vs R 2012 or something it may look better on the NGP than the other systems. If the engine is common like Unreal engine or the smackdown engine I see the NGP looking the best because of the screen size and resolution alone. That is a great resolution for the screen size. On complicated engines like UC and Killzone yes the PS3 will outperform it however with optomization and familliarity comes the wizardry so I suspect that the best playing and looking Wipeout game will be on the NGP. This system could be something special.

Legion2483d ago (Edited 2483d ago )

Correct that it might look better on the smaller screen. And if I was to code a game for the PS3 or 360 to fit the screen of the NGP then it would look miles ahead of current graphics.

The question (which is probably a mute point due to hearing no compatability coming) is what would the graphics look like when linked from the NGP to a widescreen? Not good at all... and definetly NOT close to the PS3 or 360.

EDIT: and once again I post and see a similar remark right below mine. I should read first before posting.

But Parapraxis is ignorant to think that it is 360 or PS3 quality if it is viewed in a smaller format. It is NOT... you have to compare quality based on equal resolutions not native resolutions. Once again... PS3 and 360 would blow NGP out of the water if running at NGP resolution.

pain777pas2483d ago

Like you said it is a mute point. As you know the specifications are what they are and what ifs are just that aswell. However, what you will get will be close to what you can from the HD consoles on the screen that the portable is designed on. I can tell you their will be a lot of jaws that will drop when this is released. The system is quite powerful.

Parapraxis2483d ago (Edited 2483d ago )

"3. 960 x 544 resolution also factors in... think about it."

I think it's you yewles1 , who is not thinking about it lol

Let me rephrase:
It's NOT quite PS3 quality, it's nearly on par or better than some 360 graphics due to the fact it's on a 960 x 544 resolution screen.
Graphics are measured in their native format.

If you scale NDP images up to a 42" TV sure they will look blocky, in turn, If I were to hook a 360 up to a jumbotron, the images would also look blocky.

What matters is how they look with their intended setup and native resolution.

HappyGaming2483d ago

Talking from using an OLED screen on my phone for over a year...

When people see me watching 135mb episodes of How I Met Your Mother on my phone they ask me... wow is that HD?

OLEDs are just amazing eyecandy screens I can't wait till they manage to make them bigger.

DigitalAnalog2483d ago (Edited 2483d ago )

Here are my responses to your points.

1. It is of PS3's quality. Just on a smaller screen. Producing at 960x544 is just half the pixels on a 1080p screen, therefore rendering is cut by HALF. A ton of 9.99 Gold does not make a 1 pound of 9.99 Gold's quality less - it's still 9.99 gold.. only on a smaller scale. In other words, you don't need an equivalent amount of power of the PS3 to produce that quality on a smaller resolution.

2. Many PS3 exclusive does NOT duplicate data. An example would be Uncharted: DF where Balestra explicitly states they don't use "duplicated" data.

http://www.maxconsole.net/c...

3. Resolution is the amount of pixels on screen. As stated on point #1, 960 x 544 is HALF the resolution of a 1080p. Since it uses a 5" screen as opposed to the standard 32" inch TV, the resolution is HIGHER then then PSP2's screen itself (therefore making it HD or full HD)

-End of Line

Legion2482d ago (Edited 2482d ago )

"The term “display resolution” is usually used to mean pixel dimensions, the number of pixels in each dimension (e.g., 1920×1200), which does not tell anything about the resolution of the display on which the image is actually formed: resolution properly refers to the pixel density, the number of pixels per unit distance or area, not total number of pixels."

"In digital measurement, the display resolution would be given in pixels per inch."

What does this mean? Your 5" screen versus 32" screen might be a bit misleading. Shrinking a 1080p down to a 5" screen does not make it look better then a 32" screen. A 32" screen has MORE pixels on screen then a 5" screen at same resolution.

But the computing power to present a 5" screen viewing is much less demanding then that of the 32" view given similar references. Your eyes will see less issues with a smaller screen versus larger screen though.

DigitalAnalog2482d ago

Actually you may have ironically misinterpreted point #3 and at the same time stress my point exactly what you have stated.

-End of Line

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 2482d ago
thebudgetgamer2484d ago

whoa, is it even possible to make a good game without blu-ra?

smashman982483d ago

lol clearly he was joking disagreers

Masterchef20072483d ago

Since the NGP doesnt have to produce images at 720P not does it have to support 7.1 Surround sound. It doesnt need bluray

Azurite2483d ago (Edited 2483d ago )

Small lower resolution monitors doesn't need excess detail to look detailed and it would be a waste of space to use uncompressed sound for portable gaming.
There's no problem really.