Sony's legal actions were as inexorable as the PS3's security takedown, and while much of what's next hinges on delicate legal parsing, the bottom line is: Were Hotz and team "jailbreaking," i.e. gaining "root access" to the PS3?
edit. wrong article :/ ...1ST!
really? 1st, what was the point of that like i said before...there is a lot that can change in the coming days and even months...this is a restraining order for both geohot and failoverflow to stop any further spread of their programs remember that this is SCEA suing since they have the DMCA behind them which could backfire if someone uses the Apple argument against Sony....idk what the laws are in other countries...but if we go back to the lawsuit Sony had to deal with in Spain over OtherOS in which they lost because of its removal, then i would think that suing hackers around the world would be futile and a pointless loss of money...this IMO is pure intimidation on their part...showing off their muscle to the rest of the hacking scene of what Sony is capable of...basically trying to tone down the hacking at this point or even turn off others who have thought about jailbreaking
well I'm sure it will work if they win, it would scare the hell outa me if they went to jail for a long time. I would never even think about releasing hacks for the PS3
I hope they win and I hope it scares the rest of them. I think they will actually start trying to hack the ps3 even more and make it their no1 priority, but if Sony keeps suing them and winning, they would soon back off. The only good thing to come out of hacking/jailbreaking is the features they add, and forces the owner of that hardware to add the missing features people jailbreak for (i.e Apple adding most of the features you get in a jailbreak).
Think again, "The Copyright Office also allowed bypassing the anticopying technology used in DVDs, but only for "documentary filmmaking," noncommercial videos, and educational uses--a ruling that stopped short of allowing Americans to legally make a backup copy for their own use, in case the original DVD gets damaged. It also doesn't apply to making backup copies of video game discs or Blu-ray discs." Sony has a very good case.
"remember that this is SCEA suing since they have the DMCA behind them which could backfire if someone uses the Apple argument against Sony" The Apple argument didn't work because cell phones are not covered by the DMCA. Game consoles are, so they actually have a case. Big difference here.
pcworld.com attempt to remain relevant doomed?
@whitto you hope they win? why? because sony is so honest and righteous? http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... especially be careful on the part when they not only infringed everything, but they also infringed on free piece of software (published under GPL). stealing from something provided for free is abysmal. and since sony can't read other people copyright licenses, why would anyone read theirs
I can tell ur internet noob and got extra bubbles with ur multiple accounts!!!! Who cares if ur first???????? :| Any way ontopic:- To b honest im not suprised the ps3 got hacked, i remember the ps2 got hacked so i figured it will b a matter of time b4 it happens to the ps3.
Your obviously a dumbass because I said I made a mistake and posted on the wrong article. The fact that I said 1st was because I didn't have anything to say in the topic and felt like making a joke. Grow up. PS. I have ONE extra bubble. If I wanted to give myself extra bubs, then I wouldn't stop at just one.
I hope sony wins. I hate hackers but on the other hand. I really want to see what people can create with homebrew.
There isn't anything wrong with hacking, and I don't see how you can hate hackers and then state you want to see what people create with homebrew. That's what hackers allow. I think what you mean to say is that you hate pirates, right? Because that's the distinction that is causing so many issues. And I think that's the loophole that has allowed jailbreaking to go unpunished. Technically GeoHotz didn't pirate anything. And the issue Sony runs into is trying to control what people do with their product after they buy it. Do they have a right to go after GeoHotz, who hacked the product? By law he seems to have found a loophole, but surely he knew that he opened the door to piracy. Piracy is the real thing that is damaging to Sony. The question is whether hackers are responsible for the piracy that others do since they open the door, but not necessarily pirate the product. IMO while he is technically off the hook, he and hackers cannot be so obtuse to think that piracy isn't the big issue that comes out of hacking. He clearly knew it would happen, but whether or not he is responsible is the issue, and both sides are presenting technically valid arguments. This is why Sony going after hackers instead of pirates becomes a sticky issue.
Alpha Male great comment. People are def. confusing hacking with pirating yes one can't be available without the other but you are spot on. Dont hate hackers they are extremely talented people hate pirates there like thieves and no one likes thieves
You guys need to understand, Publishing root keys on the internet which is a helping hand for Piraters, we all know this. Oh and by the way, "The Copyright Office also allowed bypassing the anticopying technology used in DVDs, but only for "documentary filmmaking," noncommercial videos, and educational uses--a ruling that stopped short of allowing Americans to legally make a backup copy for their own use, in case the original DVD gets damaged. It also doesn't apply to making backup copies of video game discs or Blu-ray discs." Sony has a very good case.
But the problem is still the same, isn't it? They provided root keys, which is a hack, and piracy is a consequent of that hack. Pirates will use that hack to pirate games but the question still comes back to whether or not direct responsibility/blame falls on the person who hacked the console and allowed pirating to happen, or the person who decides to use the hack to pirate himself. A hacker isn't a pirate. And legally, hacking isn't seen as something that is bad, otherwise I assume GeoHotz would have been arrested a long time ago.
I read the papers Geohot was served and Sony has a case. That's why Geohot was served with the restraining order. Apparently under the DMCA it is illegal to do exactly what they did. Every law that these guys are being accused of braking they broke. It'll be up to their defense team to try to challenge the legitimacy of the law because under the DMCA Sony does seem to have a strong case.
Sony will win this case, for sure. But piracy will still prevail... it's already happened... this will likely slow things down... and probably put an end to most homebrew efforts as the legal side of the community wont want to touch it if they're issuing lawsuits. In the end though, they deserve it. It's so naive of them to keep going round saying 'we're developing homebrew, not piracy' both ends share very similar means.
"the question still comes back to whether or not direct responsibility/blame falls on the person who hacked the console and allowed pirating to happen, or the person who decides to use the hack to pirate himself." No offense, but this is not a question for most rational people. Person A sells a crowbar. Person B buys a crowbar and uses it to open a crate. Person C buys a crowbar, uses it to break into a house, and assaults someone with it. Do you arrest person C, or do you arrest all of the above because all crowbars everywhere enable crime and should be banned?
@Matr One Example. If person A new person C and told them he sold the item to person B and he got it from them. Person A & C could both be done for breaking and entering. This argument goes for the hackers. They the hacker knowingly had the keys to the PS3. They had the choice knowing that it could lead to piracy and homebrew. They made that decision to release these keys to everyone that included both homebrew developers and pirates. Thus implecating themselves in the use of piracey. Courts of law are not just black and white. There are many ways to interpret law and precedents that have to be looked at. What i have said above can be taken another way in there favour.
PC World writing about PS3 hacks. Riiiight.
Did he needed this in his life??? and now he needs to battle against sony on court lol! gl man i hope you gonna get around 2,3 years minimum,for this damage what you caused with this stupid hack!!!
GeoHot likes attention. And he surely loves himself writing "hello geohot" and not "hello world!"
He's young and good looking for where he's going. Hope he likes the attention he'll be getting there. He might learn about some new brute force backdoor entries.
Yeah but can you imagine if he wins - he already has MASSIVE REP for taken on Apple and now he is looking for rep for taken on Sony. who is next MS?
BOO HOO sony should concentrate on making a solid OS for the PS3 instead of hiding behind the law Sony has given up on its programers
90% of PS3 owners are gonna be effected negatively by all the online cheating and hacking. including trophy hacking, making them useless. the other 10% of ps3 owners are gonna enjoy pirating.
Even though that hasn't happen yet, at least online cheating and there is ways to prevent it. This is basically what I'm scared of.
How many charges there for this guys so far? I've saw 6 Charges so far.
i don't see what illegal. he's not distributing software that he didn't write himself. he's just distributing a tool that happens to run illegal software, and also homebrew so the real villains are those that distribute the games, right? what next? go after the creator of bit torrent because he made a program that people just happen to share games on with? Sony taking legal action just doesn't make any sense. if anything, go after the people distributing/downloading/hosti ng illegal copies of uncharted 2 and killzone. They're the ones breaking the law.
Well, what geohat did is a bit different. It's not his fault that you got robbed! All he did was give a copy of you house key to anyone that wanted it.
Basically. he took a private key, that belong to Sony and gave it out. I mean, its like giving out copies of MP3s.... ;3 not real albums, just 1's and 0's.
Its like accessory to murder, hes the equivalent in piracy.
did you just make that up? daemon tools is the equivalent of this on the PC, yet that mounting software is in absolutely no danger of being deemed illegal. it runs illegally obtained "hacked" software geohot's tool is no different. but w/ no software distribution infringement, there's no law being broken. i suppose sony could argue that napster is an independently run program that lost in court, but then again, the ps3 hack is not a peer-to-peer file sharing service, so there's no reason why geohot's software is illegal. they've been cracking down on torrent sites (like pirate bay). this is where people get illegal hacked software, like pc games, movies, music, etc. (AND CONSOLE GAMES for hacked systems) Sony should have spend money cracking down on those sites rather then waste time trying to make an argument that will ultimately lose in court.
Its an analogy jeezz...
your analogy doesn't fly because being an accessory to murder is a felony geohot isn't doing anything against the law what this guy does is that he made the gun the murderer used to kill someone with does that make him a criminal? do people sue smith and wesson because their gun killed someone they loved? however "wrong" piracy might be, the US government protects the innocent from being lumped in w/ the guilty through due process (like what you're doing w/ your analogy). Sony knows if they take him to trial, they will not win based on all the history of all the "guns" that have been made in the past. none of them have ever been successfully indicted for piracy, and neither should him. do you even realize that he's not pirating anything? he's not and "accessory" because he doesn't directly aid anyone in pirating software. it's a tool. that's all. so if people want to download illegal games/blurays illegally then use that tool to play those illegal games/blurays, then it shouldn't be the "gun-makers" fault. sue those people distributing the illegally hacked games/blurays on torrent sites if you want the distribution to stop. geohot is legally innocent EDIT: THAT's an analogy.
Well, If i give you an open hand to piracy and you pirate games, it's as much my fault as it is yours.
If you give drugs to someone and they die......are you responsible, common sense tells us no, however the law see that a bit differently.....selling a deadly product will get you locked up.... I need a better analogy.
why does irepbtown need to give a better analogy, yours is the one that sucks. geohot isn't giving "drugs," the distribution sites are the ones "distributing the illegal stuff (hacked games, etc). all geohot is doing is providing the little plastic baggies that you can distribute the "drugs" in but, as he has said before, it's also used for other applications such as homebrew whats next? sue everyone who has the internet just because they can use that tool to get illegal PS3 games? gimme a break
you can't even properly comprehend, how the hell do you even think you have the right to speak to me. "I need a better analogy"......I said i need one, it was a little to extreme.
"he's not distributing software that he didn't write himself." um yes he is. you see he is not allowed to alter or change the PS3's XMB. end of story Altering the PS3's XMB by custom firmware an showing people on youtube proof that you did it is by means illegal. you as a consumer cannot modify , alter distribute that code that you do not own. Geohotz by altering the PS3's XMB and distributing the code to do it is Illegal, because once again he owns the hardware not the Software you have the right to use it not alter or change it. it's not the HACK it's the changing of the XMB that is the problem.
I would agree if he were selling the altered code at a profit. But since he's not, there's no money being taken away from Sony. Again, if he sold it at a profit, it would be downright illegal, but since he's not, Sony is not obligated to consider it a threat. anyway what's done is done. even if sony manages to win this case it won't mean anything this generation. the exploit is out there. what it will do is affect the direction of consoles in the future.
@lord So if i altered Windows 7 to be better and distrubuting it on the internet for free and called it Windows 8 that would be ok then!!!!!!! And MS wouldnt sue me. Seriously you dont have a clue what your talking about.
yes sony drive every hacker to anger!!! It's not everyday a few small guys bring a billion dollar corp to it's knees.. like hackers in the movies!! awsome!! sony better win becuz if they don't mister hotz might have some revenge!!
"It's not everyday a few small guys bring a billion dollar corp to it's knees.. like hackers in the movies!! awsome!!" How about all those who tried and failed, and those loosened the screw before them. Don't make them out to be hero's. When you break into someone else's home it's called breaking and entering. How is this any different, this is sony's software and they have compromised it's security. Now anyone can walk in and take what they want. oh yay for hackers.
another one of these articles??
you guys do realize all this did was bring even more hackers attention to the system now people on 4chan are looking >.> geohot is becoming a household name lol
Sony won't win in this case. Apple tried to take down Geohot before and even they couldn't. Apple is a much bigger company then Sony, so I doubt Sony will even be able to do any damage at all. It's mainly a scare tactic to try and persuade others not to do the same thing.
its funny before the ps3 got hacked "ps3 , will never get hacked, ps3 is a beast , ps3 puts hackers to shame , it makes hackers quit hacking , power of the cell !!!" all these and more quotes from the fanboys. and after it gets hacked to such a state worse than a wii and psp, the mode of these fanboys changed. "go get em sony , tos , sue there ass for hacking the ps3 , geohot is going to jail ,its illegal to hack the ps3 , lets get a partition going " ha ha , its so funny lol at all these fanboys comments . lol lol lol lol
What's also funny are the fanboys delighting in this. In fact, the smug, self-satisfied fanboys are even funnier; it's as if they scored some kind of victory.
i agree radzy it really is they are so blind that its sad
i hope sony stop this i dont know how but i hope they do but alot of damage has been done everything has been leaked on the net the keys, tools etc its only at matter of time before other people will want to take over from geohot and the others
@Morgan lol,and yes. when someone with an actual opinion that is expressed intelligently however direct or disagreeable at times is reduced to a single idea per article we move ever closer towards conformity. bubs+ Morgan.
I would agree if he were selling the altered code at a profit. But since he's not, there's no money being taken away from Sony. "Again, if he sold it at a profit, it would be downright illegal, but since he's not, Sony is not obligated to consider it a threat. anyway what's done is done. even if sony manages to win this case it won't mean anything this generation. the exploit is out there. what it will do is affect the direction of consoles in the future." it would not matter if you sold it or not selling it, in fact selling it would be far worse. It would be worse because you could have to pay restitution per every copy you sold if the judge deem it so. If you were giving it away you would still be liable but your less likely to get the book thrown at you. this is a pure case of copy right infringement of Sony's XMB . selling or giving it away is still liable no matter how you try to slice it. Its going to be very hard for these Hackers to avoid being found guilty on that charge. I would already say there is a pretty good chance that of all of these charges the hackers are less likely to be able to defend against this charge because there really is no defense if you are public in you actions with video proof of the infringement. you can deny i but when it's shown to be that it's you in the video the judge is most likely not going to go easy on you. there is plenty of proof online already that these hackers altered the XMB. http://www.youtube.com/watc... you cannot alter the PS3's XMB,,because Geohotz does not own the PS3 OS on his PS3. just as you an i do not also own our XMB on our PS3's you have the right to use it not change it with your own code without it being authorised from Sony ..you can sign your code with a Hack but it was not once again authorised from Sony for you not only to distribute a hacked firmware that belongs to Sony. but you cannot use that to try to bypass the PSN security measure to run a Hacked XMB OS running on PSN.
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