1010°
Submitted by JhawkFootball06 1631d ago | news

Sony Suing Geohot, Fail0verflow, others over PS3 Hacking

"As of 1/11/2011 7:20 PM EST, I have been served with papers, see below...

Motion For TRO
Proposed Order

old front page, with relevant info removed, is here

contact me geohot ... gmail"

From Fail0verflow's Twitter http://twitter.com/#!/fail0...
"Looks like Sony decided to ignore the facts and sue us all for it. See http://geohot.com/"

From Hector Martin's Twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/marca...
"Ah, so Sony decided to sue everyone under US law. Guess I won't be visiting the US in a while..."

From Muscle Nerd's Twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/Muscl...
"EFF has done a fantastic job keeping iPhone jailbreaks (not piracy!) legal..hope they can do the same with this PS3 news" (PS3, Sony)

Update UPDATE- Charges include

18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(C) – Confidential Information On Computer

18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(4) – Intent To Defraud And Obtain Value

18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5)(A) – Knowing Transmission of Code

18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(5)(B) and (C) – Intentional and Reckless Damage And Loss

18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(6)(A) – Trafficking in Password

18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(7)(B) – Intent to Extort

Alternative Sources
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Romudeth  +   1631d ago
Good and I hope they clean these people out and leave them penniless on the street. Geohot and Fail0verflow are criminal scum and deserve to be severely punished.
LordMarius  +   1631d ago
Yay Sony!
Now bring on the bans for those who are hacking the PS3 and connecting to PSN. Keep my online experience cheater free(not counting Call of Duty). Keep your homebrew offline
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JhawkFootball06  +   1631d ago
Not only will this lead to Geohot and Fail0verflow to stop releasing hacks for the ps3, it will also make other hackers very hesitant to release new information due to being afraid of legal issues
blumatt  +   1631d ago
Good
They deserve it. The only reason why these people are wanting to hack the PS3 is to play illegal ROMs and try to pirate PS3 games. I hope they get fined at least.
Sarcasm  +   1631d ago
It's pretty lame how they keep trying to act all innocent.
JhawkFootball06  +   1631d ago
Sony could very well lose this case. There was a reason Apple never chose to sue Geohot, after he continues to hack almost every firmware they release for the iphone.
EyeContact  +   1631d ago
@JhawkFootball06

True, but notice the charges. they intend to sue everything but the hacking part, because it is a flawed argument. Sony is just throwing everything on the board hoping something would stick.

I think its more of a desperation act if you ask me. Hoping it would slow down the jail break and deter the hackers for a bit.
vulcanproject  +   1631d ago
Begun, the legal war has.

I'm interested in seeing how he escapes from this unharmed if he did indeed agree to the PSN user agreement. Im curious to what legal protection that particular section affords SCEA in american law. As far as i know that would give sony more leverage against this than just say an iphone with no strictly enforced terms of service by apple
evrfighter  +   1631d ago
Actually hawk what this does is attract the attention of all the other hackers. Most would not hesitate to go after corporations when they smell blood. Apple tried to sue him already. Not only did they lose but it is now legal to jailbreak.
HolyOrangeCows  +   1631d ago
And after FailOverBilbo and Frodo, the rest of you hobbits are next! lol

Glad to see action being taken against these creeps. GeoNotz exploits companies for his own gain of E-peni.

And don't give me the "Homebrew" crap. If you wanted to do homebrew stuff, you could do twice as much on hardware that these common hackers understand....a PC.
Prototype  +   1631d ago
The sooner the better, also I hope everyone who does hack the ps3 gets bricked, their Trophy Score reset, and banned from psn
jerethdagryphon  +   1631d ago
they accepted the sony psn agreement when they made an account, which they have to make to use the system

ive read the papers and most of there points are valid,

this will cause harm to sony and they have violated copyright laws good luck sony
morganfell  +   1631d ago
If you think Sony are throwing everything on the board hoping something sticks then you are wrong. It's called take a hammer to a glass nail. They are sending a message to every hacker out there that they will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Do you not realize that Title I of the US DMCA, the WIPO Copyright and Performances and Phonograms Treaties Implementation Act has provisions that prevent persons from circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work.

That means if a manufacturer has some kind of program, USB dongle, or password protection measure installed in the software/hardware to prevent illegal access, any attempt to bypass such a measure is in itself illegal. It isn't just copying the games but under DMCA jailbreaking game consoles is illegal.

If you don't think Sony has a case then you need to review the DMCA, the WIPO Treaties, and the US Federal Software Piracy Laws The Copyright Act (17 U.S.C.A. § 1 et seq.) And that's just one law that doesn't include the State of California. State is icing on the cake as their crime is a felony under federal law.

Try $250,000 and 5 years in jail for criminal liability and $150,000 for EVERY software infringement. Take every game they made playable illegally and multiply that by $150,000.

When they get out of jail the only thing that evil frodo is going to be hearing is, "Super Size me." Welcome to a life of financial ruin where you will not be allowed to own a computer or even a smartphone. And just remember this you little worm geohot. You asked for it.
Best  +   1631d ago
This won't stop anyone from pirating games. Sony, the battle is lost.
Ryudo  +   1631d ago | Well said
Am sorry I know am gona get fan raged for this, and am not a fan of piracy but...

I would rather not be sued every time I decide to mod a piece of hardware I bought legally with my own money.

So I hope this case if it's even real fails so badly.
zag  +   1631d ago
Geohot is in the USA and he's a goner.

he'll be bankrupt for the rest of his natural life.

If a mother can be done over for 200+ million dollars from a jury as well so what do you think he's going to get in a US court.

Apple will be next on the door step and they have sued people for jail breaking.

I bet his dad going to be pissed big time as he runs a tech company I'd say he could lose his job as people generally don't want crims in their business ripping them off even if they aren't directly linked.

Sony will be doing him for the decryption and the reverse engineering that's a huge no no in the USA, as well as being an enabler of piracy on the PS3 system.

he'll be in jail with a huge payout to sony or not in jail but still have a huge payout to sony.

real life baby! gotta love it, bitch kicked in tha bwals, he'll have to get used to it and once your 21 it sticks for life, bye bye tech jobs.
sunnygrg  +   1631d ago
I hope their mothers are rich enough to pay for their legal damages in the ensuing court battle.
d3nworth1  +   1631d ago
@RYUDO
yes you bought the hardware and can do what ever you want with it but when you use it to play pirated software then the company has a right to step in.
rockleex  +   1631d ago
They are being sued for using releasing Sony's private keys and using it to run their own unauthorized software.

In other hacks, homebrews, and mods, they never had to sign their code with the official key. So therefore its hard to sue them. All they did was get rid of security.

But this time, its TOTALLY different. They stole Sony's private key and used it to sign their own codes without Sony's permission.

That's VERY MUCH against the law.

That's like me stealing McDonald's private recipes and releasing it to the public so everyone can make their own McChickens or Big Macs.
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Mahr  +   1631d ago | Well said
"Do you not realize that Title I of the US DMCA, the WIPO Copyright and Performances and Phonograms Treaties Implementation Act has provisions that prevent persons from circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work."

Sorry, Charlie, but the technical law is irrelevant; whether or not a court will enforce that law is what actually matters. And the courts have ruled time and time again that laws involving the circumvention of copy protection are insufficient grounds to prohibit fair use.

Read 'em and weep.

Decrypted and copied DVDs in Norway. http://www.itworld.com/0301...

Mod chips in the UK and Australia.
http://www.kotaku.com.au/20...

PS3 Jailbreaking in Spain.
http://www.barcelonareporte...

iPhone Jailbreaking in the US.
http://www.wired.com/threat...

How about console mod chips in the US?
http://www.xbox-scene.com/x...

http://westlawnews.thomson....

"That means if a manufacturer has some kind of program, USB dongle, or password protection measure installed in the software/hardware to prevent illegal access, any attempt to bypass such a measure is in itself illegal. It isn't just copying the games but under DMCA jailbreaking game consoles is illegal"

Right, and that law is garbage, which is why the courts, across countries and media formats, have decided against enforcing it and its ilk. Heck, if the prosecution in the Matthew Crippen case had not imploded, we would almost certainly *already* have a precedent striking down that little provision and ensuring full legal protection for the modding community.

"Geohot is in the USA and he's a goner.

he'll be bankrupt for the rest of his natural life."

This is exactly the type of case that the Electronic Frontier Foundation -- which has argued successfully against Sony before (and which won the iPhone Jailbreak case) -- undertakes for free.

The merits of the case strongly favor Geohot, and a favorable decision for him will be landmark precedent legalizing the use of Homebrew on *every* console.

It's been a long time comin'.
MeanOldman  +   1631d ago
too bad mahr. for ever case you nitpick theres a hundred others where the rulin went the other way. nice try but you fail.

and sony and ever company with anything to lose an their lawyers > over the eff.

heres what dudes like you ignore. jaibreakin is for some phones an then its only for software you already legally own. sorry dude but the technical law has been enforced a hundred times for every exception. these guys are goin down and them an their pirate buddies have ruined their life. bye bye now.
zeeshan  +   1631d ago | Well said
Most of you guys are missing the point here. This will anger the hacking community and will work towards uniting hackers. A couple of people trying to break a system's security is one thing but a whole bunch of them is going to cause some serious problems for Sony.

Leaking something on the internet while remaining anonymous is not at all a big issue! You can easily have a contact outside US and get them to leak your work. Sony, M$ and Nintendo can't do ANYTHING to win this battle by going after one person or heck even a group. The sheer number of hackers out there can beat even these giants and we have seen this happen in the past with the most recent one being PS3 security getting compromised.

Really, I believe this will unite all the hackers and is going to become an ugly war between Sony and hacking community and I seriously doubt Sony's chances of winning this one.
Mahr  +   1631d ago | Well said
"too bad mahr. for ever case you nitpick theres a hundred others where the rulin went the other way."

If there are a hundred, then it would have been very easy for you to link me to them.

"nice try but you fail."

My cases have the benefit of being real; yours are imaginary. I win.

"and sony and ever company with anything to lose an their lawyers > over the eff."

Sony has fought the EFF before. Sony lost.

Established fact > your opinion.

"jaibreakin is for some phones"

Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. All those courts in all those countries said it applied to consoles -- and the courts in the US have given every indication that they will say the same. It is just a matter of time.

"sorry dude but the technical law has been enforced a hundred times for every exception"

You do not seem to understand the concept of legal precedent. Those cases are not 'exceptions'; those cases are now the supreme law of the land in those countries.

"these guys are goin down"

You want it to be one way -- but it's the other way.
Vherostar  +   1631d ago
Ms used piracy to sell consoles.. Sony sues people who use piracy.. Massive difference in approach here.
MintBerryCrunch  +   1631d ago | Well said
i've already said this once...but people arent getting what a TRO is

No one has been sued yet and this isn't really even a "lawsuit", again, yet. All Sony has filed is a Motion for TRO (temporary retraining order) asking that all jailbreaking tools and information be removed from the web and all hardware associated with such tools be impounded. Sony has not filed a complaint for copyright infringement.
MeanOldman  +   1631d ago
you wouldnt make a very smart criminal mahr. better keep walking that line. cause according to you its smart to commit a crime cause you think the law will get changed before you are prosecuted. good luck with that. want to hedge millions of dollars and 5 years in jail?

put your money where your mouth is mahr. if you are so convinced you are right lets see you do something besides talk about it.

an open a ps3 hack site an start carrying geohots hack for download. lets see who believes most in what will happen.

you or me.

i bet its me. otherwise you need to just start walkin pal.
HappyGaming  +   1631d ago
Lol I guess Geohot didnt get the job offer he was asking for from Sony...

Note Geohot: In your CV next time don't say:

It would be fun to be on the other side
(and than give out a code that harms that company)

The first line makes it sound like you see this job as a joke and that you are not serious or stable. How can Sony know you won't fuck them over again if you are unstable?

The second line makes your first line sound even worse.
DelbertGrady  +   1631d ago
I never knew Sony had this many defense lawyers. lol.
sikbeta  +   1631d ago
HELL YEAH!!! Right in your F@cking Faces Douches!!! HUA! Make them Pay SONY, make them pay!!!!
NeutralGamer  +   1631d ago
now THAT is how you deal with piracy :D
batterystrength  +   1631d ago
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(7)(B) – Intent to Extort:

(a) Whoever—
(1) having knowingly accessed a computer without authorization or exceeding authorized access [...]

...(7)with intent to extort from any person any money or other thing of value, transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any—

(A) [...]

(B) threat to obtain information from a protected computer without authorization or in excess of authorization or to impair the confidentiality of information obtained from a protected computer without authorization or by exceeding authorized access; or

(C) demand or request for money or other thing of value in relation to damage to a protected computer, where such damage was caused to facilitate the extortion;
shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section...
________

Didn't Geohot say something like if they want a secure system they should hire him ? Or am I misinformed ?
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DragonKnight  +   1631d ago
To the people justifying what these people do claiming that they are only modifying something they already own, I once again adamantly reiterate that THEY DO NOT OWN THE SOFTWARE!!

Look, you want to perform case mods? Go ahead, Sony can't stop you. They won't pay for repairs if you break the console in the process, but they can't stop you from making the case mod. You want to rearrange the locations of circuit boards, heat sinks, fans, the laser or disc tray... you can do that too. Replace the blue laser diode, all the power to you and Sony won't go after you.

But the SOFTWARE is owned by Sony. Every time you agree to the TOS, you agree to that one little fact. So everything you do to software you don't own is illegal. It's a plain and simple fact. So, sorry GeoHot and Fail0verflow, what you did was in fact illegal.
deafwing  +   1631d ago
wow the comment count is amazing Batman!

:p
fossilfern  +   1630d ago
YEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! happy days!
MerkinMax  +   1630d ago
Good for Sony.
They were well aware of what would happen when they released the mods. People have froze my PS3 intentionally while playing MW2 which is complete bullshit.
deafwing  +   1630d ago
I think failOverflow, if sued and the the lawsuit actually gets anywhere (maybe months from now) .. they'll fight this statement

"
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(7)(B) – Intent to Extort"

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
NickIni  +   1630d ago
Quite amusing the amount of 'wanna-be' lawyers on here. Given what happened with Apple, Sony wouldn't have rushed into this, they'd have definitely given it more thought and analysis than asking a couple of 14-year-olds on the internet who apparently seem to know more about the law than professionals. They must be pretty certain they can win it too and will throw a large sum of cash at it.

And the people who are wanting Geohot to win shouldn't be calling themselves Gamers.
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WhittO  +   1630d ago
So they should, I hope they bleed them dry so they are too scared to hack any other future consoles/devices.
pixelsword  +   1630d ago
Bend over gently now...
Because you're all about to experience a world of pain.
Mahr  +   1630d ago
"you wouldnt make a very smart criminal mahr"

I have in modded in some fashion almost every single console I have ever owned, and I have owned a considerable number of them. According to your bizarre logic, that already makes me a criminal, now, doesn't it?

And yet here I sit, in good conscience and in precisely zero fear of ever even getting arrested, let alone going to jail, for anything.

"good luck with that. want to hedge millions of dollars and 5 years in jail?"

Are you admitting that even though I am a modder, I am not *already* on the hook for that punishment? Many thanks for proving my point.

"Quite amusing the amount of 'wanna-be' lawyers on here. Given what happened with Apple, Sony wouldn't have rushed into this, they'd have definitely given it more thought and analysis than asking a couple of 14-year-olds on the internet."

This was the exact same argument I heard when Sony was trying that case in Spain. You know, the case that they lost. And in losing, legalized PS3 jailbreaking throughout the entire country. And where afterward Sony was actually forced to pay damages to everyone it had sued over the issue.

Yeah, that case was pretty awesome. I think someone posted a link to it above.

"They must be pretty certain they can win it too and will throw a large sum of cash at it"

Literally every major corporation that has ever engaged in a lawsuit has thrown a large sum of money at it. But thankfully, the modern justice system is designed such that you cannot win every case by virtue of the fact that you have gajillion dollar lawyers. See above for examples.

As for the 'careful analysis and certainty' argument, that is very easily refuted by the attempts to charge all the members of Fail0verflow, the majority of whom do not even live in North America, with violations under US law. There is absolutely no intellectually-honest way by which a person can believe that such a path has any chance of succeeding.

It is a complete and utter act of desperation. And based off the merits presented, there is no reason to believe that suing Geohot would be *any* better.
SkyGamer  +   1630d ago
I like how everyone ASSUMES that the whole reason why people hack systems is to pirate games. Maybe some people are pissed because sony took out features? Maybe some want to use homebrew. Not all people pirate games. Besides, if they put a game on their hdd and do not distribute it, maybe to test the game out before buying it, what is the harm in that? If a game is really worthy of your hard-earned money, then you will buy it. I bought Halo Reach Legendary Edition, RE4 Gold, Castlevania LoS, Nier amongst others KNOWING full well I could have pirated them but I chose to support the devs. What most people don't realize is a small factor called "free will."

"Just because you can doesn't mean you will." - SkyMan
blahblah  +   1630d ago
@JhawkFootball06

so you didn't really read the papers;) if you would you would see how desperate sony lawyers were. either that, or they are just so bad firm, they shouldn't ever step into courtroom

didn't see so lame and desperate attempt since SCO. by the end of second one i was just waiting the part where they say Geohot is the party responsible for global warming.

if you read the first paper, you can notice how they want to throw pirating games on them... by using Twitter message. that was funny as hell. for extortion... rofl
jidery  +   1631d ago
I hope this guy gets owned, he is going to cost Sony millions.
theonlylolking  +   1631d ago
He is costing gamers games and well everything gaming.
EyeContact  +   1631d ago
lets see the list this guy cost us gamers.

OtherOS

New IPs from the many Sony studios.

shifting production from upgrading PSN to deterring hackers

No advertising for Infamous 2

resulting Sony to focus on more casual cash-cow games.

Edit:
I like the idea of piracy. But also don't because i am a gamer so i guess i'm on both sides of the fence. =/
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darkpower  +   1631d ago
@I_P_Freely
I don't understand where any of your listed things have to do with the pirating/hacking/whatever we're calling it.

"OtherOS"

Why does every single person go to this? How many times do I have to explain this? THIS WAS NOT EVEN INCLUDED WITH THE SLIM MODELS, YET NO ONE NOTICED OR BITCHED ABOUT IT! It was more than likely to be removed from the fat models no matter what and they used the hack as an excuse to remove it. And when it WAS removed, you guys QQed to SONY, not to Geohot. Now suddenly, it's HIS fault that something that wasn't even IN the new models prior to knowing that the OtherOS thing EXISTED got removed from the models that still had it for reasons that Sony had a cover story for? Tell me where the logic behind that reason is.

"New IPs from the many Sony studios."

Not sure if this is what you meant or not, but how in the HELL is THIS a BAD thing? This is what we WANT MS to do instead of relying too much on third party exclusive DLC and buying out third party Sony exclusives (only we get hit by "shut up fanboy" or "you weren't entitled to [insert game here] anyway" every single time we bring it up). If that's what it takes for MS to get to giving us more first party titles, then by all means, hack the living HELL out of that damn 360!

"shifting production from upgrading PSN to deterring hackers"

Though I can see your point here, it does seem like Sony is focusing too much on keeping the PS3 hacker-proof. That's the fault of Sony, not the hackers. They should keep those that use the means to do detrimental things from doing them, but homebrew games are not one of those things, and Sony seems to DESPISE homebrew for reasons I cannot begin to understand (hell, do they even HAVE a reason that they have even given). They've done this since the PSP hacking days, and the new features were a sort-of bait for those unsuspecting people to actually take the "security fixes" along with the attractive features (which are very nice, don't get me wrong here).

"No advertising for Infamous 2"

Though advertising for Sony's games have gotten better, the lack of adequate advertising for anything PS3 has been a problem for YEARS. How can we put it to just piracy and the hack?

"resulting Sony to focus on more casual cash-cow games."

It would take me a novel to tell you how much there is that's wrong with that statement.
l_P_Freely  +   1631d ago
otherOS, you may not have it but first generation owners do have that option and it came in handy to other users. if you kept track of Geohots blog, the key element of hacking the PS3 was though OtherOS. end of statement.

This is a sony article and not an xbox article. Keep it simple. First off, Sony is, if not one of the best game developing company in the business and they push their games more than anyone in the biz. How are they to make more block buster hits if they were to spread their money thin, and attempt to keep all their studios running when your company is in the negative all the time. How are you to advertise your games when you're spending your hard earned cash on making games and not to mention there are over 20 studios. please explain

and this brings me to Infamous 2 if you were keeping track on N4g. Sony was going to do a full out multi-million dollar advertising campaign for Infamous. But now their attention is adverted to keeping the PS3 "hacker proof" lol.

and as for "casual cash-cow" games. if Sony loses this case (which it looks like they will) it leaves Sony open for a counter sue spending millions more. as i said relying on cash cow profit to make up for the hardcore games that are being pirated.
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juggulator  +   1631d ago
How does it look like Sony is going to lose the case.

Multi million(no make that BILLION) dollar Sony vs poor butthurt hacker. Money always wins.

OtherOS is the double edge sword of this whole debacle.OtherOS allowed Geohot to run his own code and exploits but Sony knew the feature needed to be removed in order for the new form factor to be a true gaming console.

Things like new IPs, less advertising, and focusing on more casual cash-cow games are what could happen if these hacks continue to plague the gaming industry.
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pixelsword  +   1630d ago
They won't cost Sony anything; We who have to legally pay for games and services, however...
deafwing  +   1630d ago
lol what is the big deal about using linux
lmfao
seriously pick up an old laptop somewhere and install gnome and be happy people
ZombieNinjaPanda  +   1631d ago | Well said
@Romudeth

Since when are you criminal scum for messing around with a piece of hardware you own?

Think before you say words. Now those who pirate are the ones who are technically breaking the law, but who am I kidding, every single one here has pirated something before.
Godmars290  +   1631d ago
"Since when are you criminal scum for messing around with a piece of hardware you own?"

Pretty sure modifying to use copies of other product meant to be bought or offered from other vendors, also no purchased, qualifies.

In other words using something you bought to use other things that you haven't bought makes you a thief. Weather it be 20 year old Nintendo games still under license, or 360 games coming out tomorrow. That makes someone who does it criminal scum.
BattleAxe  +   1631d ago
@ Zombie

lol its not like he's messing around with his hardware for his own personal use. He's publicly exposing Sony's software for the masses to engage in piracy.

I hope they nail this idiot.
ComboBreaker  +   1631d ago
@ZombieNinjaPanda
Since when are you criminal scum for messing around with a piece of hardware you own?

He owned his hardware, but Sony own the private root key. Stealing Sony's private root key and distributing it over the internet, using Sony's private root key for illegal activities, signing code with Sony's private root key without a license and without Sony's consent... All these things are illegal and unethical.
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ZombieNinjaPanda  +   1631d ago
Edit: @Venom
And I'm chillin with Tupac and Biggie Smalls right now. Both are believable amirite?

Edit: @ RememberThe357

Oh I'm in the same boat too. I don't want the platform overrun with piracy and cheating, but I too also realize that I've pirated things before. I just have to say I hate the fact that everyone here is acting like they are so innocent.

Edit: @ComboBreaker

House Key =/= electronical device. Though your arguments backing up what your saying are much better than what is said up above.

@Battleaxe

Hackers don't hack things for piracy, they hack them to have more features, hence the reason jailbreaking the iphone is now legal in the United States. The only problem is that hacking something has the adverse effect of piracy being let lose. It's like the Pandora's box effect. Hope is let out, but so is every other evil in the world. In this case piracy.

@Godmars

20 year old Nintendo games that are still under license but aren't being produced anymore. Explain to me other ways to get them?

Point being, these people aren't criminal scum, they may be douche bags, but they're not scum. Then again, what am I saying, only since the Ps3 has been hacked have these guys been criminals and scum.
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RememberThe357  +   1631d ago
"every single one here has pirated something before."
I know I have. I'm stuck between the knowledge that I have committed similar crimes and the desire to keep the PS3 platform healthy. I find it hard to believe that people can take a side so easily.

I want the PS3 to stay healthy and not turn into the waste land that is the PSP, but I also know that I have done similar things with downloading tv shows for instance.

How can you be completely on the side of pirates knowing how much trouble they are causing on the platform you use. Frankly, in long term capitalist markets the more you steal the less you get. Without the available revenue product investment goes down.

At the same time how can many of us villainize what we do ourselves. How is it OK to pirate tv shows, movies and anime, but it's not OK to pirate games? How do we make that destruction?

I may be the only one, but I can't seem to take a side in all this. I don't want to see piracy but I also don't want to be a hypocrite.

EDIT: I find it interesting that these hackers are acting like Sony is the bad guy in this one. How is it that they are so narrow minded that they didn't see this coming? They act like they're the righteous ones but they don't have billions riding on the PS3. Anyone in Sony's shoes would do the same thing.

@BeOneWithTheGun: That is a completely different situation that doesn't serve to make any point. For you can't infinitely duplicate your car and give those duplicates to everyone who wants one.
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jack_burt0n  +   1631d ago
Come on get real, modding your console at home on your own is one thing.

Enabling and releasing all those modifications, information and making a song and dance about it, will get your ass sued lol.

geohot is the one they should target great to see him bankrupted and jail timed, irrelevant to what he did he is a d*ck.
BeOneWithTheGun  +   1631d ago | Well said
To ur disagreers: if i buy a car and modify the engine to double my gas milage can oil makers sue me for lost profits?
VenomProject  +   1631d ago
I've never pirated anything, not even an MP3.

Just because most people are pirating scum doesn't mean you should accuse everyone in a broad generalization.
nsnsmj  +   1631d ago
Since when has homebrew only been about making emulators to play roms or finding ways to used unowned products. Homebrew could result in people making there own games run on the PS3, maybe some new apps, a better browser, etc.

Yes, there's always gonna be a downside, like hacking. But hell, downsides apply for everything in life. We don't even know for a FACT if Geohot and this group of hackers intent was for pirating, and won't until they're proven guilty or admit it themselves.
DeadIIIRed  +   1631d ago
@beonewiththegun apples and oranges guy, unless you want to clarify the comparison between modifying an engine to increase gas mileage and transmitting confidential code knowing that theft is a consequence.
jerethdagryphon  +   1631d ago
simple he owns the physical materials thats what he paid for, he doesnt own any of the code the firmware softwares or anything else

by deriving the keys he has commeted theft and corperate espionage if he had modified the hardware like ben heck does fine hes clear sonys not gonna sue heck over making a ps3 laptop theres no harm to them in it, i also think the dmca got a bit confused with what they considered jailbreaking, hots inital hack was removing a providor lock on the iphone so others could use it other then atat customers. thats fine

theres no reason to hack a ps3 the homebrew argument fails as it not designed for that do you hack a microwave to play music no. or a cdplayer to make teephone calls .

at any rate fail overflow and hotz stole sonys code thats theft doesnt matter how they got it if they had worked it out fine its an intelectual excercise but soon as they used it its theft

@ hsx9 : hardly he trialed blackmailing sony

if you want your next console to be secure hire me. thats a threat implied intention to hack there next console with a payoff of financial gain(employment)

blackmail is against the law further more these people have proven they cant be trusted in any position of athority with technolagy. i wouldnt hire them and nor should sony, its different when you hire someone with the express intention of using them to test security

or when a security firm throws up a challenge to hackers and stuff to test there own.

this is not legal and i hope sony win and makes it so hots and fail have to pay some sort of major resitution based on the number of sales sony loses from there nonsense.
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Billy_Dee_Williams  +   1631d ago
This was bound to happen. Lets see real justice. What laws did geohot actually break? Hopefully the judgement is fair and not biased towards SOny.
Billy_Dee_Williams  +   1631d ago
To my disagrees: I'm not saying he is innocent, I am just saying while something may be morally wrong, it may not be as bad legally as one would think. I dont know all te details, but I am excited to find out.
Bathyj  +   1631d ago | Funny
Not me.

I hope the Judge is a GT fan.
HSx9  +   1631d ago | Well said
there are Sony fanatics who do not understand how the justice system works, I have almost been sued by Activision for "hacking" as well, and I'll tell you it's not fun when a multi-million company is about to sue you, thankfully Activision backed off.
Sure Geohot has done something that he should have kept a bit more private, but I am reading the documents and Sony is just trying to Accuse him of "allowing piracy" on the PS3. Geohot's Custom Firmware does not allow you to run Pirated Games, it has been confirmed, he disabled it because he knew he could get in legal trouble, Right now Sony is using a scare tactic and just suing for perhaps Copyright infringement, hopefully nothing bad happens to these kids, they are really smart and instead of Sony destroying their life's they could hire them to secure their console. They are young and very smart, all of us in this website wouldn't know how to hack this console even with our brains combined.
HSx9  +   1631d ago
I like how sony stretched the truth
"Indeed, in the last few days, people have already started copying, playing and
trafficking in pirated copies of video games using the 3.55 Firmware Jailbreak."

Nobody has figured out how to run pirated games, or in this case "back up" games, people are still trying to figure it out. The only way to do this is by using an exploit in the eboot which launches it directly, and you can only do that with 3-10 games.
RememberThe357  +   1631d ago
HSx9
It's not hard to see where your coming from, but you also have to be aware of your own perspective as a hacker.

You mention that Geohut specifically disabled the ability to run pirated software from his firmware. But the argument could be made that if he removed it from his firmware he had to know that someone else would inevitably hack it and make it work. And if he truly didn't want to enable piracy he would not have release his firmware.

You also say that Sony should hire them to hack their consoles and that would be grab barring the fact that their job interview would have coast their employer potentially millions of dollars. It took them four years to figure the security out, and that's four years too late if you work for Sony.

I don't want to see these guys lives ruined either, but they all knew what they were doing and when they had the chance to back off they didn't. If their is one thing in life that is constant it's that you reap what you sow. When you bag and insane murderer to shoot you in the face don't be surprised when he pulls the figure.

Hopefully this doesn't turn out too bad for either party involved.

EDIT: @your second comment:
"'Indeed, in the last few days, people have already started copying, playing and trafficking in pirated copies of video games using the 3.55 Firmware Jailbreak.'

The only way to do this is by using an exploit in the eboot which launches it directly, and you can only do that with 3-10 games."

You just explained exactly what their talking about. Stretching the truth and stating the truth are different. And by your comment it seems that they are indeed stating the truth.
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HSx9  +   1631d ago
@RememberThe357
hopefully u weren't one of the idiots who disagreed with my first post, but yeah I understand what you mean too, and the eboot exploit, you can do by using 3.41 firmware which geohot was never a part of, and data transferring the 3.41 firmware to a 3.55 firmware via the "Data Transfer Utility" feature on the PS3, without running any malicious code.
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darkpower  +   1631d ago
Personally, I think the one thing people have to do before they talk about this is to...

BREATHE!!

Did we forgot about why Tucson happened ALREADY? It's rhetoric like this that made that guy that already had mental issues want to take a gun and shoot up a Safeway with a congresswoman in it (nearly killing HER along with about 9 others)!

I know this is a hot button issue with gamers, but can we please stop acting like children here? I know this is N4G and all, but I've supported Sony a LOT on this site too, and here I am saying that Sony is in the wrong here.

Remember, too, that if it wasn't for Geohot's iPhone hack, we might've not had that announcement about Verizon getting a deal for it. Why? Because then people couldn't use the jailbreak to get their iphones to work with Verizon.

We've GOT to learn to stop trying to see the forest from the trees here.
Biggest  +   1631d ago
So they tried hacking the PS3 because Microsoft and Nintendo couldn't sell it? There is NOTHING coming from what these guys did that adds anything of real value to the PS3. The only thing they opened was an option for pirating.
gunnerforlife  +   1631d ago
finally sony acts!
i hope they get gehot arrested if they're able to. gehot is basicly the kingpin of piracy in this world, you get rid of him and they all get swept under the carpet, because he seems to be the smartest hacker there is out there, without him the hacking community cant really do anything at the level of hacking ps3.

Edit: at below true what your saying but are you telling me that without him the ps3 would be hacked right about now? cuz if i remember correctly he started this whole mess to begin with.
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jeeves86  +   1631d ago
They're suing him. Being a kingpin in a virtual world does nothing when the real world wants all your cash.
MastaMold  +   1631d ago
Nice Sony get those mofo's that's what they get
nsnsmj  +   1631d ago
I wouldn't go THAT far and call them scum. I'm an optimistic person--so maybe, just maybe, they were only hacking the PS3 for homebrew. Though I know others who might use these hacks may be doing so in the name of piracy.

This whole thing has been crazy since Sony removed otherOS because of Geohot messing around with linux way back when. Do I think Sony should have removed it? No, but that's only because I don't think the intent was for piracy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sticking up for piracy in any way. I am sticking up for homebrew however.

Sony jumped the gun by removing otherOS without thoroughly investigating the situation. In my opinion, THAT, is what has spurred the PS3 hacking up until this point
EyeContact  +   1631d ago
Run boys run! Sony got their dogs on you.
Blaze929  +   1631d ago | Well said
lol they are suing them? Sony sure does sound upset and desperate. What happened to just patching it with future updates? Didn't sue anyone prior to this...

"Through the
Internet, Defendants are distributing software, tools and instructions (collectively,
“Circumvention Devices”) that circumvent the TPMs in the PS3 System and facilitate the
counterfeiting of video games."

um...false? They said over and over they do not support nor give the tools to piracy. This lawsuit will not be in Sony's favor, I can see it already.
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Blaze929  +   1631d ago | Well said
"to
enable use or playing of illegal copies of PlayStation®3 video games on the PS3 System."

false again? wow...

"and releasing software code that will allow users to run unauthorized or
pirated software on the PS3 System."

um...false again

Ya, this is definitely just Sony's way of saying there's nothing they can do about it now.
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pansenbaer  +   1631d ago
Sorry, but you sound pretty ignorant. The fact is, Geohot IS distributing software that can facilitate piracy. There is no two ways around this. Just because he comes out and says 'I don't condone piracy' doesn't mean crap. Its still enabling people to do that, and that's what Sony is saying.
Christopher  +   1631d ago
By knowing that the information provided can be used for piracy, there are thereby supporting piracy. Specifically they are supporting piracy with a security protocol and the modification of Sony IP.

You can't do one without the other, thereby you are supporting piracy when you openly distribute the information.
Nitrowolf2  +   1631d ago
Blaze i hope you understand this
they are bring about 103 people to court
this prob. doesn't apply to every single one of them, but some of them have gotten way to run pirated games. whether it was just a few games, pirating is pirating.
Christopher  +   1631d ago
To reply to you honestly.

1. The key information they provided that allows anyone to create and run unsigned code on the PS3 does "... facilitate the counterfeiting of video games."

2. There have already been proof videos that have enabled people to play illegal copies of PS3 games. People have already used the information that GeoHotz provided to update their 'backup' programs and copy games to the HDD. This would allow them to illegally copy and play video games sans discs.

3. The 3.55 CFW that GeoHotz distributed actually does just this. You can create your own pkg file and run it with that firmware. Since it hasn't been licensed by Sony, it is unauthorized software. And, as mentioned above, people have already updated the code to run pirated software on the system, which includes emulators and 'backup' methods.

Not to say that Sony will win these cases, but what they are saying is 100% true.
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Simon_Brezhnev  +   1631d ago
im not surprised by what blaze said he always spin shit against sony. you never see him in the microsoft piracy posts.
Christopher  +   1631d ago
***EFF has done a fantastic job keeping iPhone jailbreaks (not piracy!) legal..hope they can do the same with this PS3 news***

Seriously, dumbest statement ever. By keeping jailbreaks legal, you've kept piracy pretty much legal since it's impossible to track due to jailbreaking.

What an idiotic statement. You can't have one without the other.

Edit: Gotta love that on MuscleNerd's twitter page, a few below this post, he's openly talking to a person with the name @ThePirateKid about how iTunes handles software encryption and how to bypass it using a crypto hardware wall.

Watch this video and you'll see what GeoHot thinks of sony's PSN EULA:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Specifically, watch the part when it shows the 'new' ToS agreement information. If that's not a sign of support of piracy, I don't know what is.
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xX-StolenSoul-Xx  +   1631d ago
I sure do hope they do leave them penniless
fr0sty  +   1631d ago | Well said
sony just screwed up big time. now the whole hacker community is going to go after them and gladly release tools to allow pirating.

fact remains, as much as I like to support sony, if I paid $600 for a machine I better be able to do whatever the hell I want with it. if they are too incompetent to provide security to prevent piracy, I shouldn't have to suffer if I want to install custom software on my box that I paid for with my hard earned money.

I personally want to use my ps3 as a video encoder, since cell kicks ass at that. but obviously i don't own my ps3, because sony thinks they can sue me if I want to do that.
wissam  +   1631d ago
@ frosty

Yes like hackers will leave the p3 alone anyway.lol.
mastiffchild  +   1631d ago
Seriously, you think they already haven't been after Sony? I guess they hacked the Wii and the 360 but just left the PS3 alone cos they felt sorry after the PSP, yeah?

Jesus. Fact is people want something for nothing. Every year I get screwed by people exactly like these as a musician and I hear all the usual BS arguments coming out here too-"EVERYONE does it"(no they don't-we aren't all scum), "the industry can afford it"(can it? Can it really? It's made of individuals who, like me, aren't all Mick Jagger)and so on.

If someone helps people to steal they deserve a slap for it-it really is that simple. Theft IS wrong.
fr0sty  +   1631d ago
I too am a musician, and have not been hurt in the least by piracy. Until you hit a certain level, all that does for you is give you exposure. IF you're trying to make a living as a less than famous musician off of album sales, you're doing it wrong. Touring is the only way for someone who doesn't have a major label deal to make anything. Album sales come later, and even then are still secondary income.

Theft is wrong, but modifying my ps3 to encode video for me is not. i shouldn't have my console disabled if I want to do that. if sony wants to go after thieves, they need to have ps3 send a log of apps ran on it and ban the pirates, and also sue those downloading torrents of ps3 games just like everyone else. it's not our fault sony can't write security code, not our fault other OS was removed (stupid move on their part, as the hackers said it gave them a reason to hack the ps3 which is why it's security was cracked so soon after). Sony is just trying to do whatever knee jerk reaction it can to contain this because they are running scared.

if they were smart, they'd openly embrace homebrew and then use these legal complaints for the real pirates.

@ wissam, you seriously think they just let sony have 4 years hack free? you seriously think ps3's security (which relied on the same "random" number for it's security keys) was really that solid?
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Spenok  +   1631d ago
Agreed, in full.
meetajhu  +   1631d ago | Helpful
FailOverN4G users. hahhaha Geohot is my hero. Sony can't do shit. By reading these comments i can see that most of you are some 12-13 year old brainless and senseless.
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cheetah  +   1631d ago
You are laughing at other peoples comments, now thats funny.

Maybe if thieves like you actually did something useful with your lives you might actually be able to pay for things you want rather than steal them.
egidem  +   1631d ago
This is gonna get ugly. If you sit inside your house in your basement, tinkering away with your PS3 and decide to publish whatever secrets you found from the console on the internet, think ahead before you do. Think of the damage you could cause to the industry...and if you do go on, be ready for heavy consequences! I hope Sony teaches these hackers and pirates a lesson. The damage is already done.
SlaughterMeister  +   1631d ago
Penniless on the street is a bit much, but I hope Sony kicks some serious ass.
xCaptainAmazing  +   1631d ago
These guys don't deserve to be thrown in jail.
Period. Maybe a hefty fine, yeah, but it's not like really hurt anybody directly. Maybe GeoHot, because he's a dick, but certainly not fail0verflow. Hacking is a hobby, and the fail0verflow guys had a great show at the hacking convention.

Hacking is a somewhat grey area regardless of what anyone believes. That's why piracy is still legal in most countries; the methods necessary to shut them down are immoral. There are hacking contests held all the time to break into and run malicious code on operating systems that YOU run. They even get paid for doing it so the manufactures can clean up their code. The only difference with this is that they didn't get permission.

In one twisted way, they actually helped Sony; they showed them that they should fire their cryptography guy.
xCaptainAmazing  +   1631d ago
And...
You guys are all lame asses. Complaining about this, but nobody gives a damn about all the jailbroken iPods and PSPs. I hope Sony has more going for them, because last time I checked you can't be thrown in jail from jailbreaking a device. These guys know this. GeoHot will have the tougher time getting out of this one, though, because he's a douchebag... not because hacking makes you a douche, he's just literally a huge douche.
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gta2800  +   1631d ago
I find it funny how just cause they say they don't condone piracy a lot of these people are backing up these hackers. Forget all this homebrew stuff. The real reason for all this is pirating games. Homebrew isn't worth any of the troubles! And they pretty much give pirates the tools to do it. If some country gave a hostile country looking to nuke the U.S., the tools to help them build weapons of mass destruction would you think it was okay for them to have done that because the first country say they don't condone war?
Consoldtobots  +   1631d ago
I think the fanboys of you know what console are missing the point. Our legal system works under what is called "presentment", that is Sony makes it accusations to the court under lawsuit and then this geohot character has TO RESPOND so a case can be heard. This is going to cost him more $$$ then he ever dreamed of. Multibillion dollar coporation vs lone retard with limited funds if any. Guess who's going to get their financial clock cleaned? At this point I don't think Sony even cares about anything sticking. They will be teaching this idiot a very harsh and expensive lesson that will send a message to other would be idiots. Theft is theft no matter how you slice or encode it.
hyextacy  +   1631d ago
These guys are Crackers and I for one would like to see them go down. A real Hacker does things for personal satisfaction and doesn't put it out on the web for illegal use.
travelguy2k  +   1631d ago
If Sony loses, they will have every right in the world to charge for the PSN. I wouldn't blame them, Sony does a good job of NOT nickle and diming us as consumers.

If this Hack does not go away, or if they lose this case and there is wide spread piracy, they WILL charge for PSN access to even out the losses, and it will be our own fault. well not mine, i have no intention of jailbreaking my PS3.
frostypants  +   1631d ago
I think "intent to extort" is pretty clear in Geohot's case. Remember, extortion isn't just about money necessarily.
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Maddens Raiders  +   1630d ago
All pirates -
are good for is stealing what's not theirs and boinking each other in the arses on a sinking ship. More power to SNE and honest gamers!
Scary69  +   1630d ago
I agree with Romudeth I hope Sony wins and I hope other companies follow with lawsuits. Better yet I hope these hackers get some serious jail time and a big fine.
King-Leonidas  +   1630d ago
wait sony´s suing them... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ...!!!!
chainer3000  +   1630d ago
well i didnt see that coming /s
The_Illusive_Man  +   1630d ago
agreed all hacker on ps3 or xbox need to be shut down microsoft should be trying to find xbox hackers instead of trying to track trash talkers like dj keemstar
dkblackhawk50  +   1631d ago
GO SONY!
saint_john_paul_ii   1631d ago | Bad language | show | Replies(1)
Dart89  +   1631d ago
It was only a matter of time.
Shazz  +   1631d ago
Daddys gonna need to get credit card out to get geohot a good lawyer . Legal costs for this alone would scare me shitless if I was these guys , if they are using state lawyers then good luck against sonys lawyers lol
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Cajun Chicken  +   1631d ago
I really doubt it anyone made this for homebrew. These hackers want to be worshiped by pirates for 'liberating' a system for games and get them for free, that's it. They just can't say that.

In this case. Go Sony lawyers. The best exclusives on PS3 are made by inhouse studios, inhouse studio games get pirated, no profit, studios get cuts and people ruin developers like Santa Monica and Naughty Dog because of getting a free game, nothing pays for itself. I'd rather this future not happen.

I also guess that's what happens when you 'crack' something 'easily' which actually took about 3 years of hard work and determination just for the lulz.
CarnageXB  +   1631d ago
Here we go. I somehow knew this would happen. Don't mess with Sony
SpaceFox  +   1631d ago
Haha that's awesome.

That's pretty much Sony's way of saying there's nothing they can do about it.
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jeeves86  +   1631d ago
>.> Actually, they 'can' do something about it. Sue the crap out of these guys, to the point where they can't afford any Sony products to screw around with to begin with.
ReBurn  +   1631d ago
Sony can sue whomever they want, but that doesn't fix the problem. I believe that's what SpaceFox is trying to articulate.

Pandora's box is opened. The cat's out of the bag. Apply whatever idiom you prefer. Nothing can undo this.

Also, the DMCA is a US law and so far this isn't a criminal complaint. So suing a German hacking group for restitution under the DMCA is probably meant more as a warning than anything else. These lawyers aren't stupid, regardless of how we feel about them. They know that they can't easily apply US law to people who aren't committing their indiscretions on US soil. So it is likely intended to let them know that Sony knows who they are and what they're doing, and that they need to cut it out.
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SpaceFox  +   1628d ago
Thank you sir, that is exactly what I was trying to say. They can sue whomever they want but the problem isn't going away anytime soon... if ever.
Ratchet510  +   1631d ago
i hope they go to jail and get but rape because of the stupid move they did.
PS3n360  +   1631d ago | Well said
Would you like to get butt raped for that stupid comment? Hell you are already bent over for Sony so you might not even feel it. I can not understand why people want biased GT loving judges on the case and or wish bodily harm to people for doing stupid stuff like hacking consoles. What happened to innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers. No we want to hang the guy without a trial after plowing his chocolate farm with a big flesh hay bailer. BTW if you can't even spell butt properly you are in serious trouble.
pansenbaer  +   1631d ago
Umm, he is guilty. Give me a break. He's creating a way for people to pirate games. End of story. He deserves punishment. Although, rape is a bit harsh, I agree.
SnakeMustDie  +   1631d ago
The end begins... and I hope it stays that way.
itsralf  +   1631d ago
The SNES emulator is about all the cfw Geohot released is good for, unfortunately. He made it specifically to prevent pirating. Everyone else is doing all the pirating work, so don't point the finger solely at him.
Nitrowolf2  +   1631d ago
the fact that he released the keys doesn't say anything?
Of course Fail Over Flow is as much to blame, they release keys also
both releases were for different things
kaveti6616  +   1631d ago | Well said
nitrowolf, Sony has no case at all.
itsralf  +   1631d ago
There has been very little piracy since the 3.55 cfw. The lv 2 security is patched so that backup managers will not work in Geohot's 3.55 cfw. The only successful workaround is repackaged EBOOTS. Few of them are actually working. Pretty much just Castlevania and a select few PSN titles. Right now it's hardly worth the time and effort.

Why Sony is suing this time instead of earlier is beyond me. I guess they just can't fix this with a quick firmware update and go on with their business like before.

Btw, I'm not supporting piracy. I just don't have a problem with custom firmware allowing emulators and other badass tools. I think if you saw what cfw can add, you'd stop being such a hater too.
SoSLy  +   1631d ago
"Suing Geohot, Failoveflow, OTHERS"

not just him, his charges are probably for breaking security and such.
jerethdagryphon  +   1631d ago
uh emulators are piracy :)
do you have a letter from nintendo with permission to dump there roms have they placed that data in public realms no ok piracy.
itsralf  +   1631d ago
So if I play a Windows game on a Mac or Linux using Wine or another Windows emulator, is that piracy? If I purchased the game, it doesn't matter what the hell I play it on. And I own a decent physical collection of SNES games...

Edit: There are also emulators all over the Android Marketplace, too. Is Nintendo suing Google or the developers of the GBA or SNES emulator app? Is Sony suing Google or the developers of the PS1 Emulator app?

Sory to be so blunt about this, but you're wrong.
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kingofps3  +   1631d ago
lol that was always gonna happen. wat did they expect?? a cake?
Bathyj  +   1631d ago
The cake is a lie.
kingofps3  +   1631d ago
In this case, yes. Portal...
badz149  +   1631d ago
@kingofps3
he actually DID expect a cake! he wanted Sony to hire him, remember?
Bathyj  +   1631d ago
Good.

Litigate their arses into dust Sony. You have every right to.
Tony-A  +   1631d ago
Geohot is such an attention whore. He publicized the master key when the guys who actually cracked it wanted it to stay within the hacker community.

Fail0verflow cracked it for the sake of cracking. It's what they do. Geohot let it out to get all the attention.

Now they're screwed. Sick'em, Sony.
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jack_burt0n  +   1631d ago
Yup yup and yup.

He was also the reason why otherOS was removed.
mercenarie  +   1631d ago
so this means an update won't repair the piracy problems of the PS3
supremacy  +   1631d ago
I called this earlier, and for those claiming Sony doesn't have a case i wouldn't have called this if i felt they didn't in the first place.

They (those hackers) held meetings, lil press events and made statements that there was no way back and that Sony would have to release new hardware in order to fix the issue.

This is already sounds like a threat to me.

Then they guy claims he doesn't support pirating, thats fine and all. But then you go out of your way and distribute root keys online for everyone to exploit?

On top of all this though despite the fact that there are only like 3 games or so being backed up to this point, no one in a court room cant and wont overlook at how fast this has come about since their initial statement.

Not to mention these guys even stated that the were afraid of things coming to this.

Personally im not one to judge or hold a grudge on anyone, but these guys asked for this. You wanted a job? well here have a law suit instead.

You guys out here can argue and try to know more than the rest, as if you know what the full extent of the law means. But the fact is when you against big giants like Sony, M$ and so forth, just know there are consequences to be paid.

When multiple giants collide in a court room, they usually got the funds and many resources available to them. To say.. you know what? lets just settle this another way and do so.

But these kids don't have that kind of leverage/resources if sht hits the fam. In a way im already feeling sorry for them, but not sorry enough.

Someone at Sony gave out a dev kit and it landed in the wrong hands, these hands worked and worked around the clock to try and figure out this thing and when they finally did.

They decided to run their mouth about it while distributing private keys to the WORLD wide web. And this than led to piracy, in which case gives Sony a legitimate case regardless of what their claims maybe.

Remember its one thing to hack a device for personal use, its another to distribute private keys which belong and are full of all kinds of legal mambo jumbo to the world.

Without those keys how can they even hack the system, let alone how can it be possible to back those games up.
These hackers knew this was coming, and better believe are afraid and for a good reason.
#15.1 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Kleptic  +   1631d ago
this seems more than anything like Sony going after the guys selling the weapons, as its always too hard to nail the individual terrorists...

it will get interesting...There isn't an easy case in either direction...I see a lot of accusations hovering around 'intent'...which can be impossible to prove in a lot of these types of situations...It looks like Sony is taking a side of trying to push that geohot had intent to create tools that allow illegal activity, but so far haven't thrown anything around that he was in fact doing some completely illegal...at least in the obvious sense...

Sony is in this because what Geohot is doing could (and we know it will) allow others to do far worse stuff...but the courts don't care as much about the intent, as there is almost always reasonable doubt in that...
TheObserver  +   1631d ago | Funny
Sony: Yo dawg, I heard you like to jailbreak. So I am going put you into jail. So you can jailbreak while you jailbreak.
ZombieNinjaPanda  +   1631d ago
You win 1 internet good sir.
Kewl_Kat  +   1631d ago
plus bubbles for TheObserver lol
LilMissGoddess  +   1631d ago
interesting, love to see the out come of this. sony does right they will win easy.

homebrew is one thing but prancing online with bs hacks and piracy is another. i side with sony here.
Mafia2Rules123  +   1631d ago
First of all, jailbreaking is legal in the USA.

Second of all, he didn't do anything to help piracy, in fact he did his best to stop it, as he disabled access to lv2. The way piracy happened was because of someone hex editing an EBOOT.elf, changing where it looks to find the game, from the Bluray, to the HDD. Which isn't exactly as easy as everyone here seems to think.

He did this for the same reason he jailbroke the iPhone, to give the user more options, and for people to release jailbreak only apps. With this Cross Game chat, and linux would have been possible.

But you guys just keep going on about Piracy, which geohot did his best to stop.

Edit: How many people here have jailbroke your iPhone, or iPod touch? Because that gives you way more access to piracy than this does.

Edit 2: I honestly don't see why I'm getting the dislikes, I never said piracy was good, I just said that he didn't do anything to enable it. The pirated games work on OFW too.
#18 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(36) | Report | Reply
Tony-A  +   1631d ago
@you & kaveti
Obviously Sony found something to hold against them, or else they wouldn't take it to court and spend money, time and effort doing so in the process when they can theoretically just ban

If it were that simple, it would be a non-issue. They'd both stand in front of the judge where the judge then tells them that there's nothing Sony can do.

It would be a complete waste of time to do if there wasn't something that Sony saw as a valid reason for taking legal action. It's one of the reasons why you never saw them sue (or even ban) over the gamesharing issue that's still going around.
#18.1 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(12) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
BrianC6234  +   1631d ago
Theft isn't legal in the US. This is way more than jailbreaking. If these clowns released Sony's code to bypass the security that isn't just jailbreaking. No true gamer wants these hackers to win. This is all going to kill gaming if it keeps up.
Mafia2Rules123  +   1631d ago
You obviously didn't read all my post.
Biggest  +   1631d ago
You obviously don't know what your own post means. You keep talking about jailbreaking. This wasn't jailbreaking. This was stolen/discovered security code distributed to the world illegally. He distributed a way to pirate games and people immediately tried doing it. Either way. . . Let it play out in court. If you knew better than Sony's lawyers, you would be one.
ComboBreaker  +   1631d ago
Jailbreaking is legal.
However, stealing and releasing Sony's private root key is not. Also, using Sony's private root key to illegally sign code without a license and without Sony's consent is illegal.

Geohot is going to jail for a long time. And this time, he won't be able to jailbreak out of jail.
Mafia2Rules123  +   1631d ago
He didn't steal, it was in the software, so it was released anyway.
Blaze929  +   1631d ago
it wasn't stolen....
bunfighterii  +   1631d ago
Civil suit buddy, no jail
jerethdagryphon  +   1631d ago
at blaZE : right by the loosest definition your right however by a practical definition your so so wrong.

my copy of windows contains vthe sorce code in a compiled form if iwas to work out how to decompile it and give that sorce code to say linux thats theft its not my sorce code the keys he publizied arent his to do so with just cause you dont kepp what you stole doesnt stop it being theft
Led-Zeppelin  +   1631d ago
Ive never jail broken my iphone. I'm proud to say I actually pay for my apps and music. Stop sucking on geohot's cock and grow up not all of us are hackers.
Mafia2Rules123  +   1631d ago
I pay for my apps and music too. I jailbroke to get Winterboard, and all of the mods on Cydia.

I haven't jailbroken my PS3, and probably won't, but if I was going to I'd do it to use emulators.
Mafia2Rules123  +   1631d ago
On the "New Xbox 360 250GB S hacked with video" article on here, the first comment is:
'lmao
:P'
It has 20 Agrees and 6 Disagrees.

And further down the page when someone asks what the point of hacking a system with no online is, someone says:
"why so? you can still play burned games offline..."
Which obviously is about pirated games, because if you have the game, and you know backing it up will cost you online, you'll just get off your ass and put the disk in won't you? And this got 22 Agrees, and ONLY ONE DISLIKE.

Now on this article ABOUT THE PS3, every comment just wants Sony to win. And all of the comments with the slightest bit of thought put into them have loads of disagrees.

So I think its you lot that should stop sucking Sony's cock.
#18.5 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(18) | Report | Reply
Thrillhouse  +   1631d ago
Don't worry about it, dude. It's obvious that this place is highly populated by Sony fans and fanboys. Just check out the forum statistics.

All ya gotta do it ignore the lame bias (on each side).
#18.5.1 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(11) | Report
Christopher  +   1631d ago
My problem is that I never see thise posts. Do I view the site at the wrong time or do Sony articles lead so often due to controversy?

No matter who it is, piracy is bad. Sad to see Sony stuck with ba ing to sue, but I'd suppot MS and Nintendo equally on a similar issue.
Biggest  +   1631d ago
I don't remember that post. From what I heard, the 360 was hacked before it was released and no one cares. I care about the PS3 being hacked because I appreciate the effort from the PS3 developers. I don't want them to think twice about making great games for the PS3.
Nitrowolf2  +   1631d ago
you adding the term "Jailbreak" doesn't make it legal.

Guess what guys i jailbreak my way into that women care yesterday and crashed it, don't worry though cause it's legal

I jailbreak a dude yesterday (sounds wrong) with my gun.

i hate when people assume that just because it has Jailbreak doesn't make it the same. In fact CFW is the appropiate term for latest exploits. and also this

"he didn't do anything to help piracy, in fact he did his best to stop it, as he disabled access to lv2."

WRONG!!!!!!!!

he might have patched it but he helped in more ways then any hacker that wants to run pirated games then you think.
One: By releasing a tool to repackage CFW
two: by releasing the keys

and regardless if there are no one out there that know how to do it, he still did release the tools to make it possible.

"hey we don't support piracy" yeah he said that right after he released the keys and a few tools.

so they wanted to get Linux back?
then why did they add an install PKG option?
Geo is the reason why Linux is gone, and in fact he released the keys that were meant to be kept hidden, shows he is irresponsible.

I would hate to be the parent of this child knowing that he is going to court and could potentailly ruin his life.
#18.6 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
jerethdagryphon  +   1631d ago
from the dmca
The U.S. Librarian of Congress ruled on Monday that consumers who circumvent digital protections on smartphones to install unapproved applications—a practice often colloquially known as “jailbreaking”—for noninfringing reasons should be exempted from prosecution under the anti-circumvention section of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).

The proposed exemption on jailbreaking was first put forth in 2008 by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which argued that users should be allowed to jailbreak their phones to install, for personal use, legally acquired third-party software. Apple, for its part, argued against the exemption in an extensive filing contending that an exemption for jailbreaking would lead to more widespread piracy and additional support costs for the company.

note the personal use and legally aquired parts not to mention the EXEMTION ONLY COVERS SMARTPHONES.
it is not carte blanche to jailbreak anything what it is is a legalaization of 3rd partys companys who made software like a pdf reader for the iphone but apple refesed to sign . thats all nothing more

yesv they work on ofw BECAUSE he took fails work and got the R.E.K thats what sonys pissed about that key is worth millions to them if not hundreds of million.

@at below strange hoe people read what they want to and ignore the rest. it is not legal to jailbreak a device it is legal to jailbreak smartphones ONLY sonys knows what there doing and are completly in the right in this. nothing there pulling charges for is covered by the exemption
#18.7 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
xCaptainAmazing  +   1631d ago
@Mafia2Rules123
Screw everyone else, man. You have a well constructed argument. They just can't handle both sides of the coin. We'll see how it plays out in court, but it's not like Sony's gonna win without a fight. These guys have rights too, especially going up a big company.

Everyone has jailbroken their iPod and stolen games, fact.
kaveti6616  +   1631d ago | Well said
Sony is being ridiculous.

They have no legal precedent to sue these hackers. But the hackers, although Geohot is a d-bag who I hate, have legal precedent in their favor. It has already been ruled that unlocking electronic devices is not illegal.

The Wii has been unlocked to run homebrew and as a consequence pirated games can run on an unlocked Wii. Yet, the people who unlocked the Wii cannot be charged with anything.

Edit: It doesn't matter what you think. There are legal precedents about this, and they all declare that jailbreaking / unlocking is completely legal.

Sony is being incredibly egotistical right now.

Apple's Iphone can be legally jailbroken and all the apps that Apple normally charges money for can be obtained for free from an installer which is obtained through jailbreaking. This information is widely known, and yet, it is still legal to unlock the device and the US Judicial system has ruled that unlocking or jailbreaking a device is legal. Unless Sony wants this to go to supreme court where they wish to overturn the previous ruling and set a new precedent, they have no case whatsoever.

They have nothing. Deal with it.
#19 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(40) | Report | Reply
aviator189  +   1631d ago
I'm no legal expert here, but I still think that what these people do...unlocking and such...is wrong.

If what you're saying is true, then I wish the best to Sony.
irepbtown  +   1630d ago
This law in US called DCMA, states Jailbreaking is legal or w.e.

But what i've also read is, 'NOT CONSOLES'.
Only Smartphones etc.

Now i dont live in America, but just because America has a law that allows Jailbreak, Why should it ruin my experience here in England?
If there is piracy, Devs will think twice about great games, which i dont want them to do, i want them to do the great game, and not worry about piracy (This is all IF console Jailbreaking is legal).

By the way smart guy, Read this

"The Copyright Office also allowed bypassing the anticopying technology used in DVDs, but only for "documentary filmmaking," noncommercial videos, and educational uses--a ruling that stopped short of allowing Americans to legally make a backup copy for their own use, in case the original DVD gets damaged. It also doesn't apply to making backup copies of video game discs or Blu-ray discs."

xbox 360 court case -
http://www.wired.com/threat...
#19.1.1 (Edited 1630d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
Spartacus5405  +   1631d ago
Well there might be no legal precedents but maybe these cases will be the first where these scum get what they deserve setting up a domino effect of other companies following suit and suing their own hackers. Also lawyers are expensive if Sony loses they could always appeal and in a different way, bankrupt these hackers
MAG_SVER   1631d ago | Offensive
ComboBreaker  +   1631d ago
@Kaveti6616
Jailbreaking and hacking your own hardware is legal.

However, stealing and releasing Sony's private root key is not. Also, using Sony's private root key to illegally sign code without a license and without Sony's consent is also illegal.

Geohot is going to jail for a long time. And this time, he won't be able to jailbreak out of
#19.4 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
HATE506  +   1631d ago
@kaveti, still crying like a lil bitch about SONY I see
Anon1974  +   1631d ago
"But the hackers have legal precedent in their favor."

Did you not read the docs that were filed? The court documents outline no less than 40 cases where it outlines in no uncertain terms that legal precedent is NOT in the hacker's favor. The fact that they were already able to slap a restraining order on these guys just shows that the courts already view their actions as something that most certainly is breaking the law and needs to be stopped immediately. They've even got a quote from Geohotz himself from an interview with the BBC where he freely admits that his "conduct will catalyze the piracy of video games".
NeoTribe  +   1630d ago
This allowing hacking BS is just american politics at its best.... Im so sick of this political garbage allowing criminals to get away with there crimes. Anyone with half a soul can tell what these fools are doin is wrong.
Burning_Finger  +   1631d ago
Sony : Over 9000!!

Hackers: 0
BrianC6234  +   1631d ago
You know nothing about the law obviously. Sony is in the right on this. We need to destroy all of these loser hackers once and for all. I say send the FBI and police in other countries and round all of them up. It's called theft.
kaveti6616  +   1631d ago
okay, smart guy. name the legal precedent that sony has to sue someone who jailbroke an electronic device.

Apple Iphone? Nope
Xbox? Nope.
Wii? Nope.
Android? Nope. In fact you can purchase an Android Phone or Iphone legally for a greater sum of money in an unlocked state.

Sony has no case. If they try to find a judge biased in their favor, the defense will appeal and it will be taken to supreme court (eventually) where Sony will lose.
pork_chop_express  +   1631d ago
thats not the point, by that time he will be so buried in litigation he will be defending himself in court.
Nitrowolf2  +   1631d ago
Saying SOny doesn't have case is false
in fact if people actually read about the legalization of jailbreaking they would have notice this

"The Copyright Office also allowed bypassing the anticopying technology used in DVDs, but only for "documentary filmmaking," noncommercial videos, and educational uses--a ruling that stopped short of allowing Americans to legally make a backup copy for their own use, in case the original DVD gets damaged. It also doesn't apply to making backup copies of video game discs or Blu-ray discs."

infact there is a court trail on 360 http://www.wired.com/threat...
still going on i believe

also jailbreaking onlycovers mobile devices and a few formats
emil1  +   1631d ago
ps2 had piracy from beginning still it sold 1,5 billion copies of games it is the only console which sold over 1 billion software. the second is ps1 with around 930 million software sold.

so why would sony be worried? in fact they started to make money on every ps3 sold.
Burning_Finger  +   1631d ago
With this bad economy, every sales count for the developers to stay in business. Sony's are doing us a favor to stop the piracy so we can still enjoy more games and the developers to keep on developing games for the systems.
xCaptainAmazing  +   1631d ago
@Burning_Finger
The developers are holding up fine. Last time I checked, the big games are still making big numbers, and the shitty games shitty ones.
thebudgetgamer  +   1631d ago
i'm rich so i let people steal from me.
:
starcb26  +   1631d ago
Then why are you "thebudgetgamer" if you're rich?
thebudgetgamer  +   1631d ago
i don't know
(whispers) don't blow my cover

i got the name when i was like ten, and i am quite poor.
#22.2.2 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
INehalemEXI  +   1631d ago
After all the bills are paid if I still got $10 I feel rich.
Kewl_Kat  +   1631d ago
The console race wasn't even close in the previous gen. The PS2 dominated the Gamcube and Xbox, that's why piracy barely hurt its sales. It's the same thing with the DS. I bet theres more hacked DS than there are hacked PSPs 'cause the DS is easily hacked and the games are easier to download. Being the dominant handheld, the DS barely suffered from piracy. Same goes for the Wii. The 360, on the other hand, is different. It's not hurt by piracy not 'cause it's the top console but 'cause it receives a steady stream of profit from Live. The PS3 doesn't have the dominant sales status and doesn't have the paid online service to be unaffected by piracy. This is why the PS2 and PS3 comparison is not a good argument.

Yes, they are now profiting from every PS3 sold. But piracy will take away a lot of profit from game sales.
#22.3 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
jack who  +   1631d ago
new low sony good luck winning
thebudgetgamer  +   1631d ago
i know
they should just ban a bunch of consoles so people will have to buy them again.
NatureOfLogic  +   1631d ago
I already have to by a new ps3,my laser just bit the dust so,this geohot jailbreak would've been nice to have on my current ps3(already broken ps3).
irepbtown  +   1630d ago
Read this,

"The Copyright Office also allowed bypassing the anticopying technology used in DVDs, but only for "documentary filmmaking," noncommercial videos, and educational uses--a ruling that stopped short of allowing Americans to legally make a backup copy for their own use, in case the original DVD gets damaged. It also doesn't apply to making backup copies of video game discs or Blu-ray discs."

Sony has a very good case.
Motorola  +   1631d ago
Yeah cuz TRYING to protect the security of something you make is a "low?" We dont even know who won yet. @below And what else can sony do? The best bet is to attempt to eradicate the source/the best of the hackers before issuing a fix (if they can)
#23.2 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
jack who  +   1631d ago
low cuzz they sueing them for what point? sueing them in the usa and the ppl dont even live in the usa. when they could be looking for ways to block the hacks but no they wanna sue which will only piss off more ppl. m$ tired that rout and failed. but like i said good luck sony
NeoTribe  +   1630d ago
What world do you live in seriously.... Why is it a new low for sony to protect there product from lowlife thieving scum?
StarScream4Ever  +   1631d ago
The Hammer falls.
nightfallinicedearth  +   1631d ago
Well I highly doubt anyone will see jail time for this. Having the PS3 jailbroken can only do Sony good.
These things happen all the time. look at Ps1, 2, Wii,360 iPhone/touch they're all pirated and hacked.it's something that most likely will never stop. Some people just pirate and if they like the game they'll buy it. Not all but some, and honestly I see nothing wrong with that. If I'm about to dish out $70 I want to know what I'm paying for before I buy.
DeFFeR  +   1631d ago
Ok - then D/L the demo or get up off your couch and get to blockbuster...
supremacy  +   1631d ago
Thats why there are reviews and rentals? Piracy is just stealing, i want you to invest millions in making games and let me and the rest of these people just pirate the heck out of your investment. I am pretty sure that isn't going to sit too well with you after the numbers come back around.
enkeixpress  +   1631d ago
Ooooooooh shiiiiiiiit!!! :D :D :D

Frodo look-alike is getting what he deserves anyway.. Dont mess with Sony, bitch! The dude must be shaking right now, he said he was scared of being sent a lawsuit, haha
#26 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
zslash  +   1631d ago
Doubt it, he's been involved in lawsuits before. Apple was pressuring him at one point..

I'm against piracy as much as the next guy, but you are naive if you think these scare tactics will halt hacking efforts.
#26.1 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
supremacy  +   1631d ago
The economy is rough up and little by little we are starting to see these big corporations take these drastic measures.

Just the online distribution of the keys is all Sony needs in this case, and with money on the table who do you think the court is going to rule in favor off?

Hackers wont stop, but for Sony if they win its a good thing that will fend off many of their devices and products.

But if they sit there and just takes it on the rear like some of you on here expect them to do than this will never change if not get worse as time goes.

All i am saying here is i am glad they are taking some action.
zslash  +   1630d ago
Going after hackers like this is a lost cause. Honestly, it's a waste of money. The resources could be better spent on improving security.

Sony isn't guaranteed a win in the courts either. Apple could not take down GeoHot for pioneering the iOS jailbreak, what makes you think they will succeed?

Even if they do win, Sony still loses in the grand scheme of things. The keys are already out in the open - there's no going back now.
homer  +   1630d ago
Why is Sony suing? It would be cheaper just to hire ninjas or hitmen to take the hackers out./s
gamingisnotacrime  +   1631d ago
Sony's lawsuit might be pointless, but i agree with the message to hackers
there is a risk, even if is just money burden and in this times money is not coming any easier
#27 (Edited 1631d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
visualb  +   1631d ago
make them cry like girls
ApexHell  +   1631d ago
so what most of them were from europe US law doesnt affect them until they set foot on US shores :p

geohot on the other hand is pwnd
supremacy  +   1631d ago
Sony is a pretty big company i am sure they also got legs and brains sitting in those shores awaiting the outcome here in the us to act as well.
Pillage05  +   1631d ago
I don't know the exact laws in the countries that the others are in but if they they think they have a case in those countries as well, i'm sure they will soon file lawsuits there as well.
irepbtown  +   1630d ago
"The Copyright Office also allowed bypassing the anticopying technology used in DVDs, but only for "documentary filmmaking," noncommercial videos, and educational uses--a ruling that stopped short of allowing Americans to legally make a backup copy for their own use, in case the original DVD gets damaged. It also doesn't apply to making backup copies of video game discs or Blu-ray discs."

Sony has a very good case.
KaiokenKid  +   1631d ago
They deserve it.
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