Network updates planned to combat console security breaches
So I would assume that they can track firmware mods through online use, but they're reluctant to say "how" (for obvious reasons). Could be as simple as a checksum (I'm not a programmer, so any input on this would be excellent). So good luck with trophies or multi-player games then, should you chose to use CFW. I guess you could play on pirate servers, but really, who wants to play cheat fests? I hope that everyone who mods their console, especially via firmware knows that you potentially expose any personal information on the device or associated network to theft. So there's that to consider too. Having been a victim of fraud myself, I refuse to take such risks.
It is true that Sony cant change the root keys. but that doesnt mean Sony cant combat piracy. They can make life harder for hackers and pirates. Also, as a last resort, they can ban pirates and brick their consoles same as MS did. @I find if funny. it actually isnt hard to detect that you are pirating games. detecting cfw maybe bit difficult, but detecting piracy is DEAD EASY.
Sony will fight, they have me on their side :)
I hope they can ban people from online somehow, but it's gonna be hard now that pirates have presumably full control of the console
Crush them Sony!
it's all rumors and speculations :P
Goodluck to SONY! Game developers deserve all the money they get (well maybe not all of them) lol
I'm siding with the hackers. I haven't liked Sony's decisions these past years. They used to be awesome, but I don't know what happened to them. Maybe because of Microsoft releasing the 360 earlier than expected, and then Sony had to change everything.
The hate against custom firmware is so ridiculous. Everybody who is upset now must have applauded Sony for taking away Linux? Because Sony can do no wrong, eh?
And lets look back at WHY Sony took away Linux. Because POS like Geohotz wasn't satisfied with Other OS and kept hacking it to try and access more parts of the PS3, which threatens the PS3's security. Sony had no choice but to force people to now choose between Other OS, or PSN. The update that Sony released CLEARLY STATES that you'd lose Other OS function if you update. If they truly cared about Other OS, they would have chosen NOT to update. And hackers should have chosen NOT to hack the PS3 through Other OS to begin with!
@Chris399: You don't even have to run CFW in order to be potentially exposed to identity theft. The hackers now have the key to sign anything they want including viruses, trojans, spyware, etc. You could be using the PS3 Web Browser and get infected. Someone could send you infected messages.
Saying that the removal of OtherOS caused the hacking, and they were satisfied enough with OtherOS IS BULLSH!T. They did nothing on OtherOS, I have no respect for those lying ass hackers, they just want FREE GAMES. Suddenly they woke up and decided to say it was crusial to have OtherOS, lies, lies, lies.
What I don't understand is that it only goes that far (banning of consoles, banning online play, etc.). Why don't the big companies (SONY, MS) report them to the authorities, especially here in the US? Stealing games is a crime, so why not get them jail time? Seriously, the best way to combat piracy is to put them in jail, I think. Nothing else is working. People will say that Sony should like it because they'll get more console sales, but that's bs; Sony will lose some customers (devs, publishers) because of the piracy issue, and so they need to fight it harder. Report these people and their IP's the FBI and have them arrest a few of the pirates. That will seriously make people wonder if it's worth it. Just my .02
"Sony will fight, they have me on their side :) " Wow, I think some people take things a little too seriously. I love my PS3 as much as the next person, but god, they're just a company trying to make profits. Why does anyone feel the need to fight for some video game company? It makes you sound extremely obsessed.
Sony will fight and wont stop, they have every right to fight, eventually the hack will lead to piracy
and the plot thickens lets see what sony do
Sony still has my support.
***it actually isnt hard to detect that you are pirating games. detecting cfw maybe bit difficult, but detecting piracy is DEAD EASY. *** This is true.
Because up until now they have kept the console pretty clean. Now, like rocleex has said, the system is open to people completely fucking the rest of us over. It doesn't make him sound obsessed, it makes him sound pretty cool. Someone else want to try and make sure my consoles doesn't get bricked? Thats pretty cool. besides I don't think that was the way he meant it. This is actually very serious to the life of the platform. Look how the PSP has died a slow and pathetic death. Software didn't sell because it was pirated and now the platform is a ghost town.
There's gonna be a back and fourth battle between these hacker pieces of shit and Sony. The hackers have nothing to lose and any bombs Sony drops wont really hurt these hackers. However, in this war there will be a lot of collateral damage and us legit gamers will get caught in the crossfire and in the end we will suffer. Just look at what hackers did with our "Other OS". I hope Sony wins this war and can finish it sooner than later.
They don't report them to the authorities because they have to prove that something was stolen. Do you think they're going to pay their lawyers $20,000 to prosecute a guy that stole 50 games valued at $2500? Nope. And that's SONY, a company with the money to do it, if they want. They certainly won't prosecute on behalf of third parties, like EA and Activision. However, if they brick the console, then the user has to buy a new console...which means that they at least recoop so "SOME" money is recovered without lawyers.
OK so people say that Sony could ban people by detecting the 10s of thousands of people who are all playing the same disc (from torrent sites) and than ban anyone who is playing that disc... But what if you back up discs and return them as second hand copies? or even return them with 30 days and get your money back? Does that mean that the person who buys the disc also gets banned if you play at the same time as him? Or will not detect that 2 people are using the same disc at the same time?
Gumtrol, it's easy to remedy back out. If that person contacts them with the info of the receipt and actual game, then they can be unbanned.
@ ElementX Dude, why can't people just fight for what they deem right and just, without being labeled obsessive, regardless of who the benefactor is? Do you feel you have to be able to personally benefit from a fight to make it worthy? Is there no such thing as fighting for ideals? Kind of reminds of what my mother taught me as a boy, that the only necessary reward for doing a good deed is in having done that good deed.
Very good! Plus Bubs!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the hardware have to be modified as well for George Hotz little "hack"? I thought some rewiring was required in addition to his rootkey exploit in order to get this to work. Also, the guy mentioned that Sony would have to make a hardware change. What's stopping Sony from revising the hardware? They do it all the time in a system's lifespan. Ban existing consoles from going on line if they're using pirated software, fix new consoles - problem contained. At any rate, circumventing copyright prevention is illegal under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act as well as it's European counterpart. Time to make some arrests! :)
DualConsoleOwner.. Sony has so many options. It is true that Sony cant change the root keys. but that doesnt mean Sony cant combat piracy. True they have managed to do this and exploit sony. however this is still awsome not in the way its good that its hacked. but that sony has beaten every console and home pc to date.. and lasted this long. sony will continue to do fw updates to cmbat this by switching fw will make the hackers continue to counter there fw with CFW.sony however if they take the psp route. 2 things will happen for now ever new game will check your fw if its old or changed. it want to update your system to new one. this will override any cfw. perhaps force you to downgrade to go back to currunt fw. secondle any new upcomming consoles could change the board witch they did with psp 3000 and psp go made it very very difficult wich resulted in one thing loss sales.
Sony could alter FW keys and encryptions. Currently the only people saying Sony can't do something have been the hackers and they really wouldn't know what Sony can and can't do. Currently all this stuff has only come about since the firmware code got leaked so if it hadn't gotten leaked then none of this would have happened I'd say. I wouldn't be surprised if the root key can also be changed, as these keys only come about by making up a pretend software SPU and and tricking the main MPUs into thinking it's a real one so all these jailbroken PS3's will have that SPU emu on them. remove that and all these jailbroken PS3's are screw from the get go. So Sony might force the CELL into only using it's own hardware interconnects instead of allowing any software to be used. You can always revoke all these hacks as they are only bending the firmware into doing what they want. Apple could remove all the boot loaders that allow the jailbroken IPhones to happen but then Apple don't have to care much as you'll have no warranty it breaks well you get to buy a new one.
these hackers are doing nothing but harm first take away otherOS and now there pushing back firmware updates because there trying to fix this with them seriously theres no reason for this ps3s doing fine
If you want firmware updates, I bet the Custom firmware updates people make over the coming months will be better than the ones Sony make. Just look at the PSP
Yeah look at the psp is anybody making CFW anymore....
LOL Thats because its practically obsolete, who makes major games for that anymore? Its been out years and has died. Anyway, the latest psp custom firmware is alot better than the latest psp official firmware.
***So I would assume that they can track firmware mods through online use*** Not sure on that, but they can track the digital signatures of games being used and their source (BDD or HDD). I'm not sure they can do anything on the network to combat CFW, but they can implement checks and standards to detect 'backed up' games. They just better do it correctly or some innocent might get banned by accident.
Just to note, this method would only really work for online games. Based on what I've seen so far, they don't have much of a chance of stopping people from pirating single-player games without requiring that everyone 'register' their games online before playing them. @scissor_runner: Actually, each disc already has a unique digital key on it. Sony already detects this key for the rewards program. We know it's unique since they are able to collect and track what PSN ID and what PS3 system played the specific game on that specific disc first. This is tracked on the PS3 OS and, when finally connected to the Internet, sent to Sony's servers for collection. But, if a user only gets CFW online and installs via USB, they could technically still bypass the need to ever connect to the Internet and play pirated single player games on that PS3 for as long as CFW is supported. I agree that CFW is a gateway to identity theft, but it can still be a gateway to bypass Sony's security as well. I'll be very interested to see what Sony comes up with to combat the piracy.
You could put a unique net key on each disk sort of like artst editions. Or keys could be redeemed only onces. Or better yet tie the key to a credit card number. Ethier way it's not good the keys being out there. The virus potential is crazy. The mass stealing of cc numbers is crazy also. Seriously I would wipe or request Sony to wipe your card data from their data bases. Other wise I would keep on playing. So to the pirates you will be at risk also not just Sony. ISos can be made with extra code in them now. This is going to be a huge distraction though. It's a bad way to end things. I hope this isn't a dreamcast moment. Sony did push other forms of gaming harder than any one else like movie production values. Even though the fans pit them against each other no one should stop you from enjoying them all.
Yeah, the virus potential is a bit annoying. I don't use my PS3 for anything save closed-network, authorized services (PSN, Netflix, Games). We can stream YouTube and such right off the t.v., thankfully. Still it's a bit scary. Wonder if the phising mails will start. People don't realize how easily information can be obtained, and just how many digital signatures we leave lying around.
"Ethier way it's not good the keys being out there. The virus potential is crazy. The mass stealing of cc numbers is crazy also. Seriously I would wipe or request Sony to wipe your card data from their data bases. Other wise I would keep on playing." This, along with a crippled PSN is among my biggest concerns. I don't plan on installing any firmware at all, but I am worried that someone might be able to send me a virus through a message that may steal my data or steal my account. I have deleted my credit card info from my account but not sure if I am safe. May stop using the browser aswell.
I hope Sony can track these people and drop the ban hammer! ha!
jsut so everyone knows, they CANNOT brick your console. they will get taken to court and the best they can do is ban from psn. They cannot break your hardware for violating online service rules. Look at the xbox, i bet they could easily brick a console and basically end piracy(kinda).They cannot do this because they would indeed lose the lawsuit. Just an FYI
lol what makes you think sony would lose that court battle? "In order to control the distribution and use of their works, copyright owners are increasingly embedding access (keep you from accessing the work) and copy (control what you do with the work) protection schemes in their digital works. Under section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), the circumvention of these access mechanisms is illegal, with only a few narrow statutory exemptions. The DMCA also prohibits the distribution of programs that can be used to circumvent both copy control and access control technologies. The anti-circumvention provisions affect the way software engineers, computer scientists, and computer security specialists do their work. But the law also affects how librarians and educational institutions acquire new works, how Internet users can protect their privacy, and even how journalists can report on stories involving technical protection measures. By using a technical device to protect music, images or words the copyright holder can turn traditionally permissible access to or use of digital content into a civil violation. This new law has complex provisions and a few narrow exemptions, which are reviewed in greater detail in the DMCA anti-circumvention provisions FAQ, linked below. Some activities affected by this law might include: - manipulating the computer code of a digital toy to make it perform new functions; - disabling an access control device on the storage media of an entertainment product; - creating a patch for a software program or electronics product - performing cryptanalysis on security systems that control access to digital data;" http://www.chillingeffects....
so when someone jailbreaks a phone and installs custom firmware and programs not originally designed to run on that operating system can they then sue apple/att/verizon? If you choose to deviate from the standard operating system and install stuff not intended by the manufacturer than thats on you. Most electronic items especially the toys we enjoy have something to that effect somewhere in the massive online documentation they release with their devices. I realize that they now allow you a little bit of freedom in how you conduct business on your personal devices but whats to stop sony from putting out massive torrents seeds etc...which will install programs that fragment your hard drive or just deceive potential pirates. Personally that would be one approach I would take if it came down to the dirty work needing done in order to keep people on the up and up. If they wanted they could just put a bunch of spam in a file that would fill up the size of a blu ray disc that equals the game size to allow people to set themselves out for downloading 5+ gigs of files from a pirate site. this could deter a few individuals if there were a hundred different files to select from and if they had to waste the time and resources downloading multiple bogus files.
@Look at this im not saying they should warranty if you break something because of unauthorized content. im saying if they bricked your console intentionally they would be taken to court because they cannot cause damage to your console because you modded it. like i said worst case is console ban.
Sony is fucked http://www.youtube.com/watc...
interesting link, at least.
I would only pirate Call of Duty Black Ops because its not worth $59.99
It's not even worth pirating.
This is going to be very interesting. I just hope Sony won't resort to disabling ps3 functions, like updating console firmware via usb.
It wouldn't really matter if they did. All you would need is a proxy server running locally on your home network to fool it into thinking it was doing it 'Via Internet'
I use the proxy server to legally download large games patches like heavy rain.so you are right.
true but a proxy server is much harder for the 'average joe' to get working than putting something on their thumb drive and booting up via usb. I do suspect they'll take it away, why do you need to update via usb anyway? - I'd think the latest disks would contain the firmware you need to play them.
yeah but a hundred schmucks on youtube or hack sites would post tutorials on how to step by step screw over legit users. look at game glitches for titles like socom for instance. asshats make entire websites on how to glitch, create hacks to change game files and in turn ruin the game for damn near every legit player. everyone can claim that they only want to run "emulators", video codecs, etc... but in the end you know several jackasses will use this in order to start getting into game files and start using Game Genie/code 9/disc majic type bs that basically ruins a game. if it wasnt for all the P.O.S. cheaters who "hacked" Socom 2 on the ps2, I would still be enjoying that game to this day along with thousdands of others. Pirates will eventually get caught especially in this day and agem but I dont want this turning into xbox live with all the rampant cheating they have with aimbots and all that jazz.
@wissam, dude can u explain a bit about that?I once tried ps3proxy thingy,it didnt work,so i got fed up u know? I hate piracy,but downloading patches faster via proxy can be bless for my 512kbps line. btw,i'm on 3.55(as usual)
if they did that people would just whine and complain about how sony's screwing over their customers, make weak "bait and switch" arguments all the while they ignore *why* the decision was made.
I think people underestimate Sony's security experts. They'll bitch-slap this too.
tbh I think those experts just got owned
tbh I think those experts were given blueprints on closing the hole. @tester They closed jailbreaking pretty quick, regardless how it was obtained. And it had to be stolen, not cracked.
Failoverflow Do you every have anything worth reading to say. Get off these hackers dick. THey aren't the best in the world the best hackers don't advertise who they are. They are just attention whores. Besides you just said in an earlier post Sony has you on their side so by your admission you got owned.
yes, they sure got "owned". it only took some low-life douchebag to resort to stealing the SDK and selling it off...
Aye, Action. 12
I thought it was those "experts" that was the reason the hackers were able to get the key?
You've never known that people steal from their employer? It isn't something that you can prevent 100% of the time. Those experts made a console that for years was uncracked by anyone for any reason. They are the best in their field by a mile and two inches.
Well lets not forget that the "random number" that was key to their security was 4... Come on... That is a huge f*ck up. After the hackers found this everything else the PS3 had as security fell apart.
I don't think you understand the implications of the private keys being leaked. These things are meant to be uncrackable. When done correctly these things would take thousands of years to bruteforce with current gen PC's. This whole debacle is completely different to the recent Jailbreak device that was released.
Oh, I understand. But private keys DO have internal (by internal I mean corporate) redundancies. It can be fixed.
I hope so, pirates of any kind just piss me off.
Easy.. I won't update my PS3. Don't have to update it to play games in SP mode. Don't care at all for online MP to play on games like Uncharted 3, KZ 3, Infamous 2 will be fine. I can't wait! :D HD Loader all over again! Blockbuster here i come!
You will have to keep it fully offline though, you don't need to update your firmware for them to ban you. That's fine, I guess, if you like having less features. Hacking a console to limit itself just in the sake of getting games free. hahaha Oh and you will have to update to play the new games or they won't work. Plus any DLC or updates to the game(patches) won't be available so you'd be stuck with limited gameplay.
Of course I'll be able to play new games. You think that I won't? They'd be sued so fast for that. You know how many PS3 people don't have the internet, and still buy a PS3 for playing games offline, and watching blu ray movies? it will be just fine and dandy. And thank you.. i will have fun playing my games. there's no way they can make it MANDATORY to have internet connection, just to play a game. NO WAY. @cemelc..... you have no idea what you just typed. I said I don't care for online MP for those games. What does that have to do about checking this article out and caring??? Wha??? Lol...
At mid: the fw comes on the disc, you don't need online.