What Gran Turismo 5 and Forza can learn from one another

It has been nearly a month since Gran Turismo 5 brought a marquee-level driving game to the PS3. A lot of the initial reviews voiced frustration at the way the developers, Polyphony Digital, chose to implement certain features. We've all had a bit more time to get used to its various quirks though, so how well do those complaints stand up?

[MariaHelFutura]

Forza is for people who like playing games, GT5 is for people who like racing cars. Stay the way both of you are.

[jack who]

agree

[Shadow Flare]

I think the difference between GT and forza is that GT, like you said Maria, is really meant for racing enthusiasts, and it does not sugar coat anything to make it easier. I'm currently doing the rally events and I'm just finding it insane, it's so difficult for me. But I know it's not the games fault, im just not good enough at it. It's a real driving simulator, that's what I bought, that's what I got. I can't fault it for being too realistic, I'm just not good enough. And GT really does force you to race professionally.

I just got off doing the NASCAR events and again, it was difficult. I came into the NASCAR thinking it was gonna be a piece of piss, you just steer left. But it is intense. If you want gold, you have to drive PERFECT. The license tests again are insane. To get gold you have to be perfect and drive professionally. Now, for some they wouldn't find that fun. But to others, that's where the reward is. And that's why Gran Turismo is a hugely respected, hugely popular franchise for real car enthusiasts. Sometimes I'm frustrated by the difficulty, but I'm always respectful of the realism. Polyphony put immense effort and detail into GT5. That's why they're the kings

[SasanovaS1987]

maria is right. GT5 isnt a video game. the low scores it received was just because of that. its a racing simulator, and it should have been rated that way. it never tried to be a video game. it tried to give u as many cars as possible in the palm of your hand. the real drivers drive without fancy camera angles, colors of cars, etc. its about tuning the car, and taking every corner at perfect angle, at maximum speed possible. IT WAS NEVER ABOUT CRASHING AND TESTING DAMAGE MODEL. all forza did was make a arcade racer in a body of a "simulator" that appealed to modern gamers. it did what it intended to do, but dont compare it to GT5, because it cant hold a candle to it in the simulator department.

[thor]

I agree, but this is only for certain events in GT. I am OK with the difficulty being as high as it is. I would like to have a few gold trophies for my troubles but hey, if they want to make a difficult game, they can make a difficult game and I'll be happy not completing everything. In fact I'll relish the challenge. That's why I spent 3 hours trying to get a gold in one of the licence tests - got it finally :)

The trouble is that for most of the game, it's not like that AT ALL!! In the A-spec mode, there is NO difficulty whatsoever. Most of the races aren't even restricted so you can just enter with your beefed up supercar and destroy the competition.

This conflict between the super-difficult special events and licences and the super-easy A-spec mode just doesn't work. The A-spec mode gives you the ability to turn on the assists to ease the difficulty which it just doesn't need. But the licences don't give you this, when they do need them! Other games have consistent difficulty along with an "easy/medium/hard" difficulty setting. GT5 is happy to make it super-easy for you sometimes and hold your hand, and then punish you for driving slightly off the racing line the next second when you didn't really have a chance to practice because you were too busy pwning the opposition in your supercar with all the assists turned on.

@Sasanova

You're bringing up the "it's not about crashing" card. Please don't. You're wrong. NO RACING GAME is about crashing. (Well OK burnout did have a crash mode but we'll leave that). In no racing game that I have played do I aim to crash my vehicle. Even in Burnout, I don't aim to crash. But sometimes, I lose concentration, and I crash. It's nice when I don't lose the immersion, and it's nice that I am punished for crashing when I do. Millions of players worldwide have crashed their cars in GT5, and they have gone, "wtf was that".

As for GT5 being about racing, I would revise that to say "driving". An inherent part of racing is the oppenents you'll be facing and GT5 fails to make them convincing, and fails to balance most races to make them fair.

Also if you want to treat GT5 as a pure driving sim, its competition is a lot more fierce, just not on consoles. Many in the hardcore PC simulator community refer to GT as a "pseudo-simulator".

[BYE]

Forza gamer: "This game is bullshit!" *rewind*

GT5 gamer: "This is tough, just like the real thing. But I'm getting better."

[kancerkid]

If GT5 is for people who are racing enthusiasts, why are there so few features to customize how your car runs?

[acedoh]

Kancerkid you obviously haven't played the game. There are tons of customizing options where you can optimize every major part of the vehicle changing performance dramatically. I am not just talking about upgrades. If you played the game you would know. Instead you are just collecting opinions from others without facts.

[deadreckoning666]

@Maria- By that logic, GT5 isn't a videogame.

@Shadow Flare- Well said.

[acedoh]

Nothing about GT5 should be changed and I think the fans agree. Three weeks later and plenty of people still are playing it all the time. If this game was really a failure then that wouldn't be the case. Having B-Spec adds a lot more to the game. I am very happy with this game and I think it is one of the best values in gaming.

[acedoh]

Does it make you feel better calling someone ignorant. I don't understand your logic but if you like calling people names to prove a point then you really don't have an argument. Yes I love GT5 and no I don't think it's perfect but the core of the game should be left alone. There is always room for improvement. But improvement compared to a complete overhaul are very different things.

[acedoh]

Learn how to read English. I never said I read the article. And you better watch your insults. If you can read what I wrote I was comparing a broad spectrum. One side would be no changes to the complete other spectrum of overhaul. If you cannot understand that then I can't help you. I have played GT5 more than most people and I have been playing the series since the very beginning. I think I have an idea of what makes this game great.

[MGRogue2017]

... That doesn't.. make any sense, does it?

Both of 'em have racing cars in 'em so.. and both are racing games.. ffs, your comment that don't make no sense man.. shi

[Bolts]

So the people who likes to race cars don't like to play games. Makes perfect sense...not.

[Bathyj]

The funny thing is, I'm not even a car nut. I'm not a racing enthusiast. Icant tune a carby and I dont watch F1.

But I do like driving and I cant ignore top shelf quality.

And everytime a new GT comes out it comsumes me totally.
All other games take a backseat, (no pun intended.)
I spend more hours than I ever do on shooters or action/adventure games.
I drive to work, and I'm looking at racing lines.
I'm hitting the apex and upshifting out of corners.
I look at cars and I identify them and admire their curves.
I bought a steering wheel that cost nearly as much as my console and I have no other games to play with it except Motorstorm.

Theres a reason why Turn 10 keep trying to compare their game to GT and why Polyphony Digital compares themselves to NO ONE.

[soundslike]

"Theres a reason why Turn 10 keep trying to compare their game to GT and why Polyphony Digital compares themselves to NO ONE."

Well said. Its too bad that more companies are now playing the troll card for cheap publicity. Hell PD didn't even need to advertise; Its like a new version of an encyclopedia versus the latest tabloids at the supermarket screaming: "WHY DON"T YOU BUY ME I AM MORE ENTERTAINING THAN REAL NEWS". And while it may be so, those who have an interest and take fun in reality, tend not to get as bored so quickly as those who reach for fantasy.

[L0G1C]

Fun in reality, huh? So why doesn't the car get totaled when you crash in GT5? Oh that's right, because it's a GAME, not simply a driving simulator.

[Boody-Bandit]

Man I couldn't agree more with you. I literally had to make myself stop playing the game just so I could get Christmas squared away. I haven't played it in 3 days and I am going through withdraw. I am done Christmas shopping and setting up the tree.

Tomorrow it's back to the world of Gran Turismo 5. My new Fanatec GT2 wheel arrives in just 3 more days! Then I will be completely consumed by GT5 once again.

[Dylantalon1]

the gran turismo series are real driving simulators while forza 3 or the forza series are not. Kaz yamauchi and the gran turismo series are trend setters and dont care what others do in their driving game while the forza series copies what gt has done. forza was made because of the gt series success and even the devs have said it themselves. the forza series is good but its an arcade racer that is meant for all types to play, where as the gt series is meant for the hardcore gearheads.

[acedoh]

I think the problem with so many games is that developers have become afraid to make games difficult. Making them incredibly simple. The Gran Turismo series has stuck to a simple formula. I think this formula is what makes games great because anyone can play but few can master.

[FLOWCity]

lulz

[MGRogue2017]

Gran Turismo 5 should borrow Forza 3's free camera ability..

You know that feature where you can look all round the exterior of your car while driving via the right analogue stick..?

And look around the interior also..

I find it odd that it wasn't included.. I'd like for it to be added in a future patch.

[Dsnyder]

Forza is a GT wannabe and GT has nothing to learn from it. Come back when you have realistic weather, nascar and good physics and then we can talk.

[Ame_No_Shiryuu]

enough said...

[Arup02]

I refuse to give my opinion.

Ingredients of a GT5/Forza article: 90% Trollers (see comment below)
5% Neutral comments
5% Random people

[iamgoatman]

Pretty much the same reason I stay out of most things Forza/GT related, you can't have a decent discussion without someone bringing in their mindless hatred for either game. These threads just turn into pissing matches for the huge number of idiots on this site.

[marioPSUC]

Yeah usually I try to stay out of those comments/never look at them.

Its really stupid how people cant just stay out of the comment section if they are just gonna troll or bash a game that is good.

Both of these racing games are great and you shouldnt have to bash one or the other. But of course this place has a good number of trolls and people that bash other games all the time and it really wont ever stop sadly.

[acere]

my opinion is
i dont want any forza in my gt5 or any gt .

[jack who]

try and guess where Gran Turismo 5 got the suggestive line in racing

[Bathyj]

You mean that line only noobs use.

Nice contribution.

The same people that want GT to have rewind, lord save me.

[juniordee]

The line was always there in GT games, but only in license tests.

[PirateThom]

Yeah, another stunning innovation... a racing line.... from Gran Turismo.

So, anything else Forza didn't contribute to Gran Turismo?

[STONEY4]

The racing line? Almost every racing game has that.

[STONEY4]

"I still believe there should be a rewind function, especially given how easy it is to get stuck to a barrier or nerfed off course by an AI that's certainly artificial but barely worthy of being called intelligent."

Oh gawd D: A rewind system would be the worst thing ever.

[marioPSUC]

I find it useful in Forza 3 but at the same time I feel Im making the game too easy for me. I try to refrain from using it but if I really mess up I will use it

Its a nice feature to have, but it can make the game pretty easy since you can rewind when you make a mess up

[nnotdead]

i agree STONEY. people are always complaining games are too easy, and now they want a rewind feature in a sim? thats the worst idea i've ever heard.

[LeShin]

Agreed!! I do want to EVER see a rewind function in a racing sim!

[Bathyj]

GT was made because Kaz LOVES cars.
He races cars.
He lives and breathes cars.

You think Nurburgring is tough to get around one lap?
The man competed in a 24 hour event.

Forza was made because M$ saw how popular GT was, and wanted a slice of the pie, much like the Playstation and the Xbox when you think about it. Its technically adequete, it plays and looks fine, but doesnt have GT's heart and soul.

GT is a product of love.

Forza is the product of a board meeting.

[Ame_No_Shiryuu]

I agree with you 100%..!!

[Objective]

Michael Jordan should be put in charge of the NBA2K franchise then.

[Demarco156]

the only thing forza team need to learn is how to came out with their own game

[ChristianGamer]

They did, and it scored a 92. Great GAME, very FUN and not sterile. No inconsistency and great design decisions. You can even rewind and fast forward replays. Innovative, I know

[Deathstroke]

I'm don't think GT5 needs to learn anything from Forza. On the other hand Forza needs to take a few notes from GT5. One of the things Forza could learn is that when you hit a car, you're not supposed to fly 1000 ft in the air.

[Bromeslice]

Actual driving is the only "Real" driving simulator. I'm sick of GT5 being marketed as that.

[L0G1C]

What's funny is now these people are saying that it isn't even a video game.... My goodness, the excuses they come up with for the "disappointing" reviews it got. idk why they matter to them.

[iceman06]

So...I guess that actual flying is the only simulation of flying and yet fighter pilots are expected to log in hundreds of hours on flight simulators. Racers of all types will log hours upon hours of racing in simulators to test new designs and tweaks in performance in hoping to shave valuable seconds off of laps. It's a cheaper (long-term) alternative to real racing. See, simulators are made to created the environment of the real event WITHOUT having to have the real event. Actual driving is...well...actual driving and the GT series is the closest approximation to the real experience on a PS3. It's been coined the "REAL" driving simulator because of that.
I understand your comment. But, it's marketing...that's how it works.

[Bromeslice]

Yeah, I guess I'm just sick of marketing strategies in general. They're all so misleading. I'm not hating GT5 or anything

[LexHazard79]

I actually think that if Gt5 had Forza's interface and single player's progression system GT5 would be perfect, and the crash/damage sound effects are the worst i've ever heard in a racing game..sounds way to generic for a next gen. title!! anyway people both games offer 2 distinct experiences..which is always good for gamers!!
PS3/hazardman79
Xbox Live/lexhazardman3

[Strikepackage Bravo]

GT5 can learn alot from FM3 indeed. Like damage for starters, how to make a decent UI and menus that do not seem like they were designed by monkeys, how to pick game music, how to make decent looking shadows, how to do online, how to do the actual tinkering side of racing simulation like tire pressure and tuning, how to make cars that sound like cars and not blenders, how to do interiors on all cars, how to diversify the car lineup, how to do AI, and last but not least, how to make a sim in less than 4 years that has cars that are ALL from this gen!

How on earth can anyone say GT5 can learn nothing from FM3 when there is so much broken in GT5, the only thing it does right, is drive!!!! EVERYTHING else is broken, everything, I am so pissed at poly, and you are all sheep for not feeling the same. Not like any of you would admit if you were disappointed, cant let the 360 faboys see you dis Sony right.

[PirateThom]

1. Forza's damage is no better, it's different, but not better as it's all pre-canned.
2. Nothing wrong with the GT UI, it's not PD's fault people can't see the shortcut buttons.
3. Yeah, you definitely can't disable individual tracks or add a custom soundtrack
4. No arguements there, but that can be fixed.
5. I haven't played either online, so can't compare.
6. As soon as Turn 10 do this, you may have a point, but like GT, not all cars sound good, some do sound like blenders or, at least, completely wrong
7. At least the interiors on GT5's cars are accurate, the Forza ones aren't in all cases.
8. Not sure how much more diverse you want it, everything from Sambabus to F1 cars to normal road cars to classic race cars...?
9. AI is fine, I'm guess you didn't see the video? http://n4g.com/news/662428/... I tested this myself as well, with similar results.
10. Consider this, that's all Turn 10 have done, make Forza games. PD have made Tourist Trophy and GT PSP since GT4 as well as been involved in numerous real world events.

And, for the record, I was disappointed with GT5, but only because there's things that have been overlooked that are completely odd, like the GT5P tuning options, and some of the tracks that really should have been there. And you said it yourself, the only thing GT5 does right is drive... funny how it got the most important thing down while it's the fluff that's letting it down.

Fact is, Forza 3 already went down a route of no return, it tried to become accessible, which is the worst thing a sim can do and the further away Gran Turismo stays from that, the better off we'll all be.

[LexHazard79]

I dont think theres anything wrong with making the game more accessible to game fans. and for those who want a bigger challenge you only have to turn off all helps. i guess both games have flaws, gt5 is good, i was looking for GREAT after all the time and delays the game went through..oh one other thing when you buy this game be ready to learn as this is a True Sim Racer!! if you like a challenge gt5 is for you..

[nefertis]

this is a load of horse shit gt5 don't need too learn from forza 3, gran turismo franchise is world wide known. Its forza that need too learn from gt5. Turn 10 haven't race in official competition but Kaz has and he's passionate about cars.

[MeNoRasta]

Yea turn 10 could learn alot from gt5 graphic wise.But they are both good.

[A LIVING LEGEND]

^ I'm not so sure.
GT5 has some impressive and equally unimpressive graphics.

[BadKarmaSutra96]

All I really want from Forza is a campaign where you actually race AI oppoents that have competitive cars. The game gets dull quickly once you tune up your car(s) and race against AI driving way slower stock vehicles. By racing I mean ditch 4 out of 7 opponents on the first turn and end up 3-4 seconds ahead of the 2nd place car after the first lap.

[Jihaad_cpt]

GT5 is amazing, not perfect but it's as close as it can be at the moment. do not make it into Forza...

[TheTruth89]

The only thing that GT can learn from Forza, is the developing time.

[Si-Fly]

That's laughable! I love GT but by now I fully expected Polyphony to have learnt something from Turn 10. Where are the custom liveries, where are the huge tuning options forza has, where are the community features I.e. weekly competitions, official forums, leaderboards??

GT still has the best handling, just, it has better graphics on 200 cars, and a handful of tracks are amazing to look at but Turn 10 is catching up fast.

I'm just glad I get to play both games, that's why I ordered a fanatec GT2, but people saying polyphony has nothing to learn from Turn 10 need to take their heads out of the sand.

[TheTruth89]

Opinions are... opinions >_>

[samuraiX]

Forza needs to learn some real car driving physics and characteristics...

[Si-Fly]

All the real life cars I've owned that have featured in Forza have been very accurate. You need to learn to play a game before making stupid comments.

[sleepy3]

They go on about the game is about tinkering and racing but there are some OBVIOUS FLAWS that really suck you out of the realism

1. No Tyre Pressure Adjustment. Really? The most BASIC tuning option available to all cars?

2. No caster Adjustment. Well that's just a massive oversight, again, Really?

3. No adjustment of individual gear ratios. WTF!

4. No Car Classes. Now we just have the wild wild west online. A 300 hp, 2500 lb car with slicks is totally different to a 300 hp, 2500lb car with street tyres. In other games these cars would be in different classes, but in GT, no such hope. Its a wild west online with anybody able to use a car that completely destroys the balance.

5. No interior view for 80% of the cars. No explanation needed here.

6. Stop babying people and put in the option for damage from level 1. having people learn to drive in such a way not to damage their car from level one makes them better drivers as they will drive more carefully from inception.

7. Asymmetrical Tuning. How could a game have NASCAR and leave this out???????????? If all you do is turn left you obviously want positive camber on the left and negative camber on the right. ITS ONLY COMMON SENSE!!!!!

8. race liveries. have a look at real life spec miata racing. have a look at real life Ferrari challenge racing. Do you see any plain red miatas or plain blue ferraris? NO. They all have driver names, numbers, sponsors, etc. If we run a spec miata series in GT5 it will look NOTHING like real life. And it should, after all, this game is about simulating real life for crying out loud.

9. Why so limited in the aero options? The 458 can't be fitted with any? REALLY? Its done in REAL LIFE, and easily so. See the oakley 458 which was fitted with a front splitter.

10. ON THE FLY TUNING. Many other games allow for tuning in game without having to back out to the menu. Not this game. You have to stop the game and back out to menu to make a djustments. Now at a track like the ring where it takes 7 minutes to get to the straight to set up your transmission to get the optimum top speed, if you guess wrong you have to go back to the menu and drive for another 7 minute to see if you got it right. WHY? Just let us adjust it on the fly in a tuning mode. Is it realism that you have to go back to the pit? And if so, then why doesn't the "realism" let me make tyre pressure or caster adjustments then?

11. WHY CAN'T WE SAVE SETUPS??!! Why am i forced to have a setup pad with written setups for each track and each car? That is INSANE. When i setup a car for a track why not just let me save the setup and load it when i go to the track? Why force me to go back and change everything individually every time i go to a different track? If you use the same setup for every track you are fine, but then you will also be slow, cause the setup for the ring is MUCH different than the setup for laguna seca for example.

These are the major problems with this game. And notice i didn't compare it to forza, or rfactor, or any other game. I am just concerned about GT5. These issues have made the game really hard to keep on playing for me. But i like the physics though, they are really good, so i persevere. But i doubt i will be sticking with it for too long. If Shift unleashed lives up to what the developer says that may have to hold me over until rfactor2 comes out hopefully this year.

[Masterchef2007]

Yep fanboys if they learn from each other. They can only evolve into better games

[btk]

GT can rather learn from games like NFS or other story-based racers. A career mode would be nice. If you like racing cars as realistically as possible then GT5 is king. But it would not hurt to have some more content like a story mode or career mode.

[JJFNIGHTS80]

Too many fanboys on this page not gonna argue to say anything except that GT5 is till the best Racing game out their that's all I have to say.