The high-profile PlayStation 3 game Lair is falling flat with most critics, but Sony tells Next-Gen that it's the consumers that matter, not the critics.
Well, its true that consumers matter more than critics to companies but good reviews from critics some times help sales with consumers (BioShock).
an online communittee feel as though our opinions matter much more then they really do. I'm not saying that it doesn't have an affect but, look at the sales for Blue Dragon and Lair. Neither games scored well with the critics but, are still doing OK on sales and managed to make it into the top 10.
Its definitely true that the consumers matter more, but usually the consumer hears what thew critics have to say on something first. So I find both equally as important.
But then again if most people are like me, they wouldn't listen to critics and decide for themselves.
Most of my friends don't even know what IGN is. They have no clue about 1up or anything like that. They just listen to me when I tell them about up and coming stuff. Still ... they take my word with a grain of salt and try it out themselves.
I've read quite a few reviews on the game & have mixed feelings on it. I don't care about the controls... I'm sure I can get used to those. But I was hoping the combat and the story were still satisfactory.
If high sales of the game would encourage Factor 5 to work on a sequel and get it right the 2nd time... I'd be willing to check the game out anyway so long as the combat was still fun enough. My brother wants this game so we were going half & half on it anyway. I'm thinking we'll go ahead and buy it.
critics dont matter with garbage games, that's why garbage like Lair and Transformers game will sell more than a game like Psychonauts
Have you played Lair? If you have I could understand you calling it garbage.
I agree with that. It didn't score well in the mags but I bought it and I do like it. Looks great and plays well and at times is really challenging which a game should be.
I agree sometimes its hard to do a 180 but once you get used to it, and figure out when you need to speed up, slow down, and hover its actually fun to play. I hope it sells well in spite of the wish-wasy reviews
Let,s see how Japan receives this game,and i reckon they,ll love it
TBH i can't see this being a game that appeals to the japanise market, still could be wrong
And it has been prove, many coumsumers love the game
Agreed. And I'm one of those consumers :)
I'm buying my PS3 in 2 weeks and the first two games I plan to buy with the console are Resistance and Lair.
are you kidding me? no warhawk?
@ MK - HOW CAN YOU MISS OUT WARHAWK? or Motorstorm for that matter
I do have to get Warhawk and others and hopefully will but:
Resistance: This is a title that I have played and enjoyed so I'm buyin it.
Lair: Frankly, Lair has been most anticipated PS3 game of 2007 before E3 07 and while it's getting so much bashing and negative reviews, I'm still a Factor 5 fan and love the game.
you're going to disappoint yourself if you buy a PS3 and get Lair, spend the money on some decent PS2 games instead or get RFOM if you want an average shooter and Warhawk is probably the most fun on PS3 right now.
Choose your games wisely dont throw away your money.
while true to some extent in any industry, how else can Sony justify all the money poured here
the worst popular garbage is 50cent crap. That game got bad reviews but steal sell like a hot cake.
I think Lair is going to do well in Japan. Japanese type games.
Lair is selling because it was hyped and (falsely) marketed as a AAA title - the mass market doesn't read reviews and most people who bought it likely had no idea it scored so badly. Those who did read the reviews and bought it anyway were just desperate for a new title on their stagnating PS3 (look no further than the fanboys on this site, making excuses, defending and justifying as if Sony were their mother or something).
It's undeniable that there was a huge drought in PS3 games leading up to the release of Lair and Warhawk - they will both sell well because of that; one is a good title, the other is not, but they'll both sell.
Just like MS fanboys with Blue Dragon
wtf is dragon dragon?
EDIT: Oh! You meant BLUE Dragon! Well, I suppose you could make that argument - there's been a bit of a summer drought on the 360 too.
@ lonestarmt (below):
Except that wouldn't be logical at all - the 360 has more RPGs than the PS3 has!
I'm sure he meant blue dragon, using your logic, its a sub par rpg thats only selling well because the 360 has no RPGs
(In defense, neither does the ps3 sadly, :()
and see this is why I don't take reviews seriously. I also bought Blue Dragon and it's great. It mixes all good things from past rpgs and packs them all in nicely. Leveling up with different job classes and then mixing and matching to make your character the way you want them. Interesting story so far and DBZ style visuals. Ah well to each his own I suppose
Lair sold 92.000 (or 92k) in just 3 days. While WarHwak sold 107.000(107k) in 4 days, online purchase not included,those are only blueray version numbers.
Strange that Lair sold that well and has so many negative reviews.
Of course those are NA numbers
true,but you look at games such as Transformers and harry potter, they get poor reviews yet sell by bucket load.
still i suspect that warhawk numbers are close to 250K as you have the US d/l PLUS the d/l version of warhawk is on the euro store aswell
I think we can attribute the sales of games like Transformers and Harry Potter to kids (or, even more likely, their parents) who judge a game on nothing other than the title, the box, the ESRB rating and popular culture.
That is what i am trying to say. Reviews can matter but overall reviews don't matter that much when it comes to sales. Its all about hype and presentation.
You used those bad games examples, i will use Okami as great game example.Awesome reviews, tons of awards, but low hype, bad marketing and we know result. Masterpiece sold in low numbers.
You couldn't buy LAIR at any major Canadian retailer until Sept. 4th so I'll wait till next week to see the real LAIR numbers. My friend and I went to Best Buy on the 4th to pick it up and to both of our suprise the game was sold out.
who the hell buys or doesn't buy a game due ot reviews?? Every player knows what types of games they like...i'm convinced that reviewer don't even play games..or have souls
I know warhawk 6.5 on psm, they sold thier souls!!
i played okami for 1 hour then stoped playing it for ever till now!
and games like blood omen 2 or black or DBZ i've played till death!!
Lair looks great i know it might have (SOME)control problem but so does so many other great and fun games!! its amazing that final someone using the sixaxes like that!! and the graphic sound story!! story and game play is the most important things in a game i think!! and lair has good story and not bad game play!! plus it has good sound and grapics!! i think i will give it above 80%!
In other words this is what Sony is saying:
"We can make crappy games, sugar coat it with nice graphics, hype it, and make millions. People are just that stupid"
Even though they review games, they also play it as well.
Some people just want quality.
Lair sells in 3 days more than Psychonauts sold in total, on PC, Xbox, and Ps2, combined.
The reviewers are losing their power over purchasing decisions because of stupid reviews. I am not a fashion nut - so I tend to wait until a game hits platinum before I buy it... (Did not wait with The Getaway though and some other ones)
Lair is doing fine. Those owning the game seems to like it. Good enough for me. My kids will see it... and the rest will be history. Same with R&C. Will not get time to wait for platinum...
you think it damage Control?
Pokemon BR for the wii sells very well and the game reviews suck
another example: 50 Cent Buletproof
how is it not? Are you blind? This isn't some fanboy garbage here. This is what they are doing. Take Haze for example, they hype the game, is it going to be good? We don't know, it looks good, does it mean it will be good? No, just look at Lair. Haze can be another Lair, but you don't even know. Anyone can hype a crappy game and sell well.
Movie tie-ins to blockbusters always sell well...kids love them..parents easily identify the game as something they know and are ok buying.
Graphically beautiful games also sell well. Game stores put the trailers up on screen so when people see it they think WOW...i have to play that without even considering it may be garbage.
i just gave you two examples that the HYPE for a game makes the game sell even if is a bad game
and its not selling
You asked "Kigmal, you think this is damage control" and I explained. Lair sucks, so Sony has to go and defend it, ala damage control. It's like when the guys who made Shadowrun complained about the reviews because of the price. It wasn't just the price, the game wasn't that good, the cross platforming sucked, it took long to get into matches, PC players were dumbed down because of the 360 players, etc. Lair devs say that they got bombed because of controls, and that people don't know how to use the controls. Guess what, it wasn't just the controls. It doesn't have enough gameplay, no multiplayer, no option to use analog controls, which according to talk around the boards, people would of liked. So answer me this, whats stopping Sony for making crap games and hyping them, and then say this same thing again? My point is, this was very stupid of Sony to say. It's the same thing as saying, people are stupid and buy games that suck and we make money off of them. Can you imagine if 50 cent said this for bulletproof?
This game has more problems than just control. Bad framerate, freezeups, clippings, bad AI, bad lockon, etc... But it will probably still sell a good amount since their isn't much of a choice for the ps3. The ps3 still has a lackluster gaming library. This game would surely bomb if it was on the 360 since their are TONS of better choices.
With all your choices and options, one would think that a lackluster game that got much less then stellar reviews would, as you say, BOMB. I'm just curious ... or do you just like to hear yourself talk in threads that are totally unrelated to your gaming choice. Seriously ... you're one lame poster.
What does Blue Dragon have to do with this thread? Blue Dragon is averaging a respectable 77%. And it did very well in Japan considering it's a xbox 360 game. On the other hand Lair has recieved the shame of the month award from most game mags and sites.
That was a weak attempt on trying to prove me wrong.
FirstKnight, have you play LAIR yet? with all those claim I'm just curious.
warhawk is the best game out right now
Critics dont listen 2 them
there old people playing the same old games
that they came up on
What is funny to me is how the stance is depending on how reviews do go. Fu*k reviews from Company perspective and you get the comment we see above. Let it be high reviews and you get the opposite opinion from(insert company here)
Lair sold ok in the first week because there is slim pickings for the PS3 right now... the selling will drop off a lot in the coming weeks. It has been a bomb for gamers and it will be a financial bomb for Factor Five and Sony
TBH i suspect the money which will come in from warhawk and heavenly Sword will more than make up for the loss (if any remember its still got to be released in europe and japan) made of L.A.I.R
Sony hyped Lair as a "AAA" exclusive title. The "EXPERTS" in this industry disagreed to the tune of some very low scores. I am going to rent this game first before buying. Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. It would have been nice to get a demo. I honestly dont trust Sony one way or the other. Thier marketing is plain "SHADY". Bottom line is Factor Five should have included analog controls in this game. Rather than forcing everyone to use the 6-axis motion controls. I cant stand motion control on anything besides Super-Rub-A-Dub. In the mean time I will watch the weekly sales figures and look for honest opinions from other owners of this game. We need to all wake up and realize just because a game says Sony on it, that does not make it a good game. Same with Microsoft or Nintendo.
You think corporations look to the critics as a measurement for green-lighting sequels? I certainly hope not. If they did, BGE may have had a sequel. Critical acclaim CAN help sales, but ultimately, regardless of how they happen, it IS the sales from the CONSUMERS that matter.
The critics can hate games like Dynasty Warriors all day long(I actually agree with them on this one), but that game will still get sequels because enough people like it.
From what I've seen, the game is a bit of a mixed bag. Some hate it, others love it. Most of the people who cry "DC! IT sucks!" and pretty much try and claim that anyone who genuinely likes the game is either in denial or a fanboy...ridiculous. Those of you who have trouble with the thought of people having different interests than you need a reality check. It's the reason every game isn't a sports game, or an action game, an RPG, or whatever the case. If you're a sports fan that doesn't like Final Fantasy, does that make you wrong? Nope.
I believe in consumers with a mind of their own. There are entirely too many sheep out there that will either listen to nothing but the good reviews or nothing but the negative. I almost...ALMOST succumbed to that this summer with the release of Transformer and FF:RotSS. I didn't, however, and enjoyed both of those films very much. Nothing particularly revolutionary, but it was some great movie-going fun, and it's experiences like that which matter to consumers. Guess what? Despite being PANNED by critics everywhere, those were a pair of the most successful movies of the summer.
So who's wrong? The millions who enjoy the experience or the handful of "experts" that didn't? I'll tell you: NONE. Different strokes for different folks, but to a company, it IS the consumer that matters.
don't doubt for a second that in the games business, just like the movie business, that these dubious "reviewers" aren't payed by the competition to write negatively about a game/movie. Especially when the product is so high profile that its release would have a negative impact on the competition. I've seen too many games on these subjective sites where the user score is exponentially higher than the critic score- this is a good indication that the critic is full of $&%t. I think this is what's happened to Lair.
Of course they matter, consumers are idiots
..they're biased fanboys, too. I plan to take this game on a test drive FOR MYSELF, and if I like it, and I believe I will, I'll buy it. I think there must be more people who believe what I just wrote or the game wouldn't be in the top 10 this week -despite the BS reviews.
denial is incredibly easy to do when you've been hyped
yet sony still sends out beta systems, and early first systems, and beta games, and games to gaming magazines...lol
So much for the consumer is all that matters, when its the critics that sway the consumers opinions.
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