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Move vs. Kinect - Shipped vs. Sold

WorthPlaying writes, "After Microsoft announced that it had sold 2.5 million Kinect units to consumers, Sony followed up with its own announcement that it had shipped 4.1 million Move units to retailers. While the two announcements may seem similar on their face, the difference in wording is key."

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WaggleLOL2641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

Wow. The damage control from the huge Move sales numbers just keeps on coming. Which is strange since the two products really have no direct relevance to each other. It's almost as if these damage control articles are like some fanboy reflex action that they just can't help themselves from putting out.

The irony is amazing. Microsoft who is the only company who reports shipments to retailers as sales after both Nintendo and Sony switched to only reporting actual console sales back in 2006, has its fans now suddenly 'getting religion' about being honest about the distinction.

Time to put up or shut up. Either stop making these silly Move sales damage control articles or start demanding Microsoft to finally come clean and stop inflating their worldwide installed base by 2-3 million by trying to pass off worldwide shipment numbers as actual sales.

L4DRocks2641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

Except this is not damage control when it's a fact. Sony reported 4.1 million sold then they where called out about it being shipped. Just like they did when they announced it had sold 1 million then someone else called them out and they later changed it to shipped saying it was a "mistake". So don't act like Sony only reports sold to customer because that is a lie and they have been caught of lying in the past.

Microsoft reported actual sold to consumers they seemed to put an emphasis on the word "sold to consumers"

I guess we will see when NPD numbers come from November to see if the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360 to see if it's true and if Move outsells Kinect for that month.

Plus like this article said if they actually have outsold Kinect they would have gloated about it like every company does.

Nitrowolf22641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

both companies do it considering both have been caught. No they would not gloat about it, for they would have no reason to. I mean when they outsold 360 for months did we see any statement from Sony saying they outsold competitors? like i said below MS seems to be the only one doing it, mainly GreenBurg.
Hell you don't even see that from Nintendo.

LORD-PHOENIX2641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

so what makes anyone think that they have suddenly changed that practice for announcing kinect sales?

considering 500mil worth of advertising was allocated to kinect id bet my house even more so that microsoft have announced shipped numbers for kinect also.

people need to stop this numbers game use your nogging and go play games

2641d ago
L4DRocks2641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

@Lord-phoenix has microsoft ever announced sale figures and have said "Sold to Customers" and then be proven wrong. I don't think so they always say sold and PS3 owners then get mad and say that is a lie and say it's shipped with no proof. But they have never said "sold to customers" and put so much emphasis on it. If so then give me proof with links.

Anyways I'm just saying it's most likely shipped because just looking at software sales for Move they are almost non existent at least not on September and October NPD numbers same with Europe numbers and japan numbers. Yet there are several Kinect games on the UK charts and in japan it's bombing so yeah it's not doing too good their, as for US well we will see when NPD releases their numbers for November. I mean seriously if something sells 4.1 million you would think that would translate to software sells as well but it isn't that is why I don't believe them.

Anyways you guys can keep talking about this I have apparently upset a lot of you judging by how many Private messages I'm getting. You guys are so sensitive we are just having a discussion no need to get all sensitive about something plastic.

snp2641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

Microsoft reported actual sold to consumers they seemed to put an emphasis on the word "sold to consumers"
-----

I'm scratching my head how MS is able to know to-the-day consumer purchases, literally reporting 25 day sales numbers on day 25... Seems a big leap.

I've never really taken a stance on if Sony's PS3 console numbers are sold to retailers or sold to consumers - honestly i don't know and don't claim to. But, if they are some sort of collated figure and calculation, they're at least done with a full month of data collection following the end of each quarter before being reported.

I can understanding knowing how many of something had 'shipped' right up until that same day it's reported, but how many are in consumers hands... on that day... it seems to stretch credulity.

Honestly, it's hard to see how it can be anything but PR getting confused, or a white lie.

----
I guess we will see when NPD numbers come from November to see if the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360 to see if it's true and if Move outsells Kinect for that month.
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Which tells us absolutely nothing about what the other 5.7 billion people in the world are buying.

rroded2641d ago

Sometimes what a company chooses not to say can be just as telling as what it does say.

LORD-PHOENIX2641d ago

1. when ms announced there european sales,then sony announced theirs which i believe was 1 million more,then all of a sudden ms announce that they are sure that they are 1 mill ahead of sony...WTF

2.major nelson announcing 42 million actual consoles sold,greenburg being the fanboy that he is got ppissed and made MN revert back to shipped numbers that he even had to change it on his ...BLOG

i care not for numbers,but seeing soo many brainless comments just bewilders me...BUSINESS IS BUSINESS FOR SONY,MS AND NINTENDO fanboys need to grow the hell up

gaden_malak2641d ago

"Just like they did when they announced it had sold 1 million then someone else called them out and they later changed it to shipped saying it was a "mistake"."

Untrue, Sony never said it was sold. It was a misprint that every fanboy and their illogical rationing ran with.

morganfell2641d ago

LORD-PHOENIX,

Don't forget that the very next day Greenburg's own boss had an interview published that contradicted him and sided with Larry Hryb's (Major Nelson's) original figure of 42 million.

cliffbo2641d ago Show
xXxSeTTriPxXx2641d ago

npd=usa not the world.and sony is not one to throw their success in the competitors face, they let their products speak for themselves.sure they take light hearted pot shots here and there but they never go into full gloat mode.

Sez 2641d ago

Read the date of your link 7/11/2010 which was after they reported their quarterly financials. Now fast foward to September when they posted another quarterly financial report showing that it "shipped" more units to retailers. So you failed at trying to prove anything.

"Sony sell ps3 to retail and gets their money up front"
"MS ships 360 to retail and have to wait to get their money" are you stupid, did that really make sense to you that you thought you could pass that off as fact. Please provide a link to that one as I have a hard time believing any company would do that.

@morganfail
Your posted that same comment last month when Sony got caught last month with move numbers. About Greenberg boss correcting him after he corrected major nelson. I going to say this again provide the link. I've asked you for that last month when you pm'ed me and you still haven't done so. So stop your lying

What I see here is people can't accept the fact that sony's move isn't sell as well as kinect and yet I don't believe the 2.5 million are sold thru numbers ( which all companies report shipped number) Sony is scared that with all the procision claims and KB commercials ( pew pew pew) that people are more interested in kinect than move.

Death24942641d ago

http://spong.com/article/19...

For those people calling foul at Sony when they mention "shipped". It applie to "sold through" which means sold to consumer. They have been doing so for the last 4 years.

TheGreenMan2641d ago

So let me get this straight...

MS, who only counts units shipped with every other product, magically knows the numbers of sold through Kinect units? Give me a break.

Where are all of the MS fanboys who shot their mouths off saying "it's IMPOSSIBLE for Sony to know sell through with consoles, so they are reporting shipped numbers!"

Well guess what: if it's impossible for Sony to give us sold through numbers for consoles, it's also impossible for MS to give us sold through Kinect numbers.

Lightsaber2641d ago

The 4.1 was dmg control from $ony and everyone knows it. If take in to accont that you need 7 piece to get the full full move exerience. it only comes out to about 500k anywany. Where kinect is just plug n play

Biggest2641d ago

You won't get official numbers from either company until they update their official numbers in their official quarterly reports. Anything you hear before that from P.R. talk, fake websites (here's lookin' at you, VGChartz!), or random articles is not true. Nothing said outside of those official reports is bound by law to be true. The difference is 100% obvious when those reports are finally released. It clearly says on Microsoft's report that they list sold to retailer. It clearly says on Sony's report that they list sold to consumer. Check it for yourself. Neither company can lie about the officially listed numbers due to laws and regulations concerning investors. Then and only then will you sales freaks have your masturbation material.

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oohWii2641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

@WaggleLOL - I didn't think the article was a damage control article. I thought the writer attempted and succeeded in making a point and his point was clear.

Since MS release actual Kinect numbers and you yourself said Sony typically release sell through numbers, why would they suddenly give shipped numbers, if in fact Move sold more units.

To be honest your comment seems to have more damage control to it than the articles you accuse.

Lastly, MS releases Kinect sells and a day later Sony releases numbers (Smoke and Mirror Numbers) which happened to be shipped. Whose doing the damage control now?

I'm not trying to call Sony out, I am just providing a counter point to your point.

cyguration2641d ago

LOL @ all the disagrees. You have a very valid comment. And I'm shocked no one responded with something to actually refute what you wrote. Perhaps...because it's true?

snp2641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

not really cyguration.

There's refutation of each of those points in bits and pieces scattered all through the posts people have made already.

But if want them in one post...

-Sony's PS3 quarterlies are reported a full month 'after' the date they account up to. I don't know if they are 'sold to consumers' or 'sold to retail' (obviously many people believe they are the former; i've got no opinion), but i would imagine 'if' they are the former that 'month' of extra time is used to collate data and perhaps work out some sort of accurate estimate.

-Sony's numbers on Move were pretty obviously, to my mind, 'shipped' (including the earlier 'first 30 days') for the simple reason that they are 'up to this very day numbers'... meaning they have to be. Which leads me to -

-MS's numbers are up for 25 days, up to and including the 25th day... How? I can understand retail sales/shipped being known up to that very minute, but 'in consumers hands' (assuming there is a way) calculated up to the very moment you're posting the number...? That's seems highly unlikely. Actually impossible. Common sense suggests they are only and can only be 'shipped numbers' in those circumstances - masked not only in 'smokes and mirrors', but what borders on outright fraudulent PR.

-re:damage control. Sony's 'shipped to this very day' numbers are undoubtably PR one-upsmanship (to counter MS's numbers), but that doesn't necessarily make them 'damage control'.

ct032641d ago

When you buy a Kinect, it is scanned, and the model number is tied to your purchase date.

You can easily confirm this: register your Kinect, and it will tell you on what date you bought it.

snp2641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

I remain skeptical.

I've got no doubt model numbers and receipts in individual stores can be tagged, but them making their way to MS seemlessly up to and including the very day of the PR release... smells like nonsense to me.

Indeed if it was that effortless and easy you'd think MS would have been using sold to consumer instead of shipped for the previous decade.

But, i will say, even 'if' they have found some great new way of accounting numbers accurate up to the very minute for PR - a little inspection from these journalists, rather than passing this information on unsighted, might be in order (if just for clarity).

Particularly when they are part of a two sides PR war, they logically go against the grain, (day 25 sales to consumers numbers given on... day 25) and at face value, at least, are contrary to the sales information style MS has used for the past decade on these products.

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kalebgray922641d ago

i love how ppl really care about the sales of move and kinect.... like they really are making money off of it.... does the kinect selling more or the move selling more put more money in ur pocket?.... no

BIGBOSS082641d ago

some people just dont want to accept the fact that the ps move is a success. probably the same people that still havnt come to terms with the fact that ps3 isnt a failure like alot of people wanted.

UnoMoment02641d ago

We just want the numbers to prove it...while they're at it, Playstation Plus numbers would be nice too

Vherostar2641d ago

Its just a shame 1 company are honest and say shipped and the other is deceiving and says sold.. There is NO way MS can track units sold by retailers it's impossible as retailers don't send them numbers each week/month same with sony all the numbers you ever see are usually numbers sold to shops. That's what they consider sold. Sony say shipped but that.s also the amount "shipped" to companys as the companys order them. So in reality both mean the same thing it's just about spinning and both companys can spin.

These sites obviously are either trying to start a flame war OR they really shouldn't be running a gaming website (they should by starting a flame war really) as they obviously don't know what the numbers mean.

UnoMoment02641d ago

Actually SONY lied and said shipped, then they were called out on it and retracted and said shipped. Did you even read the article? Or at least the summary?

Sez 2641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

"Its just a shame 1 company are honest and say shipped and the other is deceiving and says sold.. There is NO way MS can track units sold by retailers it's impossible as retailers don't send them numbers each week/month same with sony all the numbers you ever see are usually numbers sold to shops"

people have been saying this for years and sonyfanboys have always claimed that Sony can track sells of the ps3. Yet now when Sony got caught in their lie last month, now all of a sudden all companies does this. Why the change of heart now? Why is Sony now changing from reporting sales to end users to now reporting shipped numbers? Is it because kinect is doing better. Just report the numbers, you've done it before at E3 and orher events reporting sales. Why not now?

insomnium22641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

@vega

Wasn't it like so that Sony reports the sell through (ie in consumers hands) with the sales of the CONSOLE itself?

Has anyone anywhere ever seen or said that Sony keeps that accurate information with Move or software?

I find it extremely funny people say that all Move buyers bought 2 Moves so that they can play down the install base in Kinects favour. That's hilarious.

Sez 2641d ago

1)So if your saying Sony can't keep an accurate count of how many moves are actually selling. Then how can they do it for the ps3. Please explain what different formula they use in tracking os3 that they can't apply it to move sales. You guys say they can on track ps3 that way but can't do the same for move. I find that hard to believe

2) your saying people are claiming that move owners had to buy 2 moves controllers,nav,and a cam. Just to play down move sales. First off no one knows how Sony count their move sales. Do they count them as a bundle (move,nav,cam) or do they count them as individual sales. Second no one know the actual sales to play down since Sony is now reporting shipped. Hard to play down sales numbers when they haven't been reported only shipped has.

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Nitrowolf22641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

"No one really knows the answer to that outside of Sony, but it does beg the question, if Move really was outselling Kinect, why wouldn't Sony want to highlight that fact?"

because the only company out of the big three that actually goes about who sold more then the other is MS.

either way this is getting old.
and it depends, cause there isn't really 4.1 million move controller sitting at retails. weren't the sales of Move nearly 3 million globally last reported????

http://www.totalvideogames....
http://www.gamesradar.com/p...

that is 2.5 and in just 2 places in the first month.
is it really hard to believe that the sales of Move could be some where close to 4 million?

you know what i find really really really funny?
http://www.totalvideogames....

it seems that both in their first month sold close to the same amount.

UnoMoment02641d ago

See why SONY's shipped to retail vs sold thing isn't cool? They just made you look like an idiot because those numbers are shipped numbers as well. Sony have yet to give actuall SOLD numbers. You'd think a loyalist would know this

captainjy2641d ago

Sony is a company like any other company and plays the game. They like to spin numbers just as much as Sony or Nintendo. If you have it, flaunt it. They all do. The burning question is if Move has done so well why wouldn't Sony want to flaunt the numbers? Likely that they don't have the numbers to flaunt so they spin the numbers to make it look amazing. Not so amazing. They have only shipped.

thegamefanatics2641d ago

this was such a huge blunder

Zir02641d ago

The fact remains Kinect has outsold "unique" Move players people will by multiple Move controllers unlike one Kinect.

Plus if Move really is selling well the software should be charting but it's not and if Sony wants third party support it needs to be.

dragon_rocks2641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

@Zir0:

The 'unique' sold does not matter really right? If people want to go by the 'unique' sold logic then PS3 has already outsold X360 by a large margin as a lot of X360 out there are people buying them again either due to RROD or due to modded X360 consoles getting banned from Live.

Also if you check the news about Move sales, they are also pretty much sold out everywhere (Amazon PS3 Move bundle was sold out during the Thanksgiving sale, the individual Move controller was still available though but still in the top selling item of sales chart). Hence the 4.1 million shipped=sold may not be that difficult to believe. However a true sold numbers would really be good way to show the Move sales performance.

Both Kinect and Move are selling well and no doubt they will sell well during the holidays as well. The real question is how the software lineup will support them in future.

Game-ur2641d ago

"The 'unique' sold does not matter really right? If people want to go by the 'unique' sold logic then PS3 has already outsold X360 by a large margin as a lot of X360 out there are people buying them again either due to RROD or due to modded X360 consoles getting banned from Live"

thats the truth right there

SilverSlug2641d ago

*applauses dragon_rocks*

Vesemir2641d ago

Who cares ?? Each unit sold cashs in for Sony. It doesn't diminish the amount of units sold.

ct032641d ago

Install base is important for game publishers. The larger the install base, the more potential customers for games there are.

20 owners with 20 Move controllers are better than 10 owners with 20 Move controllers.

Vesemir2641d ago (Edited 2641d ago )

Still, it doesn't diminsh the number of units sold.
Hence, it doesn't matter in the subject of units sold.

captainjy2641d ago

Funny how this is such a glaring fact and 34 PS3 users have Disagreed. Good point, absolutely zero Move titles are charting at all, zero. Pretty obvious that Move is not doing very well. Sony can ship all the units they want, but if no one is buying them, they will collect dust.

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DiRtY2641d ago

great article.

It is not just shipped vs sold it is also active userbase vs controller sales.

If you bought the starterpack and picked up another wand as well, you are 2 sales for sony, eventhough the userbase is still one - you! A Kinect-sale is always a growth of the userbase though.

Glad that they cleared things up.