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Kinect Could Hold Key to Next-Gen Baseball Biomechanics

The loss of over a billion dollars to injuries has become a critical topic of discussion for baseball teams, but few are doing much about it. Medical budgets for teams are significantly less than the cost of a mediocre player, and the willingness to let a player be rebuilt by renowned surgeons sway over simple prevention. Kinect Games, or rather Kinect may play a role in helping overcome this problem!

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Shadow Flare2869d ago

I'd imagine with a baseball game, Move would be far, far more accurate then kinect. Pitching and batting. Fast movements are supposedly one of the things kinect struggles to reflect accurately on screen, whereas move would be ideal for this

mark01922869d ago

No, because it's about the joints and the body, not about something you're holding. So Move is close to useless here.

gluv652869d ago

The problem with kinect for this type of experiment is the camera isn't fast enough, its only 30fps.

BrianC62342869d ago

Kinect is useless in a game like baseball. People who think it's capable of baseball are being fooled by the simple Kinect games. So far no Kinect game has really needed to have accurate and fast controls. You just have to do something close to what the game wants. Try to use Kinect in a game like a shooter and good luck. It won't be able to do anything that requires quick reactions.

Bigpappy2869d ago

You guys kill me with your professional analasys. You have no idea what Kinect limitations are. You will have to wait to see what developers and hackers do with it.

BrianC62342869d ago

After reading this whole article I see this guy isn't even talking about using Kinect in videogames. He's talking about using it with custom software to save money. People trying to be cheap like people who tried using the PS3 instead of buying Cell workstations. I doubt Microsoft is excited about this idea. Maybe they should release a more powerful model of Kinect for real ideas like this. Kinect just doesn't have enough power in it since it requires the 360. I'm sure baseball teams in the future can buy a $10,000 model Kinect to do what they want.

I still say Move will be a lot better in baseball videogames.

BrutallyBlunt2869d ago

Save it. You're not fooling anyone with your pre-school analysis of what Kinect can do and what it can't do. Have you made a game for it?

I read some of your other comments and it's pretty clear you have little to no optimism for Kinect or the XBOX360 for that matter.

There really needs to be a better filtering process on N4G forums so that we don't have people constantly trolling topics.

BISHOP-BRASIL2869d ago

I'll risk a buble and go a little off topic here guys... Just to let you, PS Move didn't make PS Eye less of a camera.

Yes, no one did thi so far, but also no one said so far that you can't still use the common Eye capabilities while it's still tracking Move.

Also, I think we all know by now that almost ANY camera can track a body if it have the right software to figure out skeletal patterns out of the immages. The only thing Kinect has that Eye don't is an IR sensor (which is also half truth, every current digital camera, video or photography, uses sensor that are IR sensitive, so much that all of them have filters installed right in front of the sensor so it don't make visible wavelenghts blurred by IR, but Kinect has indeed a dedicated one while Eye has the physical, irremoveable filter in front of it's sensor), which highly improves the body tracking by excluding the background (non-heat generating objects) but is limited to the very same problems we get tracking after that, like it can't recongise complext joints (like hands or face expression) while also body tracking (both can, although, track it if in a dedicated process). If anything Eye has better chances tracking those complex joints or (the holy grail of mocap) someday get past the simple skeletal patterns and start to consider muscles too, because Eye has better definition, FOV and refresh rate. The rest is up to the software.

NecrumSlavery2869d ago

With pitching, kinect should handle it very well, but full body is only part of batting. Kinect doesn't track wrist positions. Move can utilize it's 1:1 augmentation to truly give a perfect swing. Throwing would be about as similar to wiisports but I'm sure they could figure out something better.

Pitch-kinect
Hit-Move

But how do you play the rest like running, stealing, and such?

ComboBreaker2869d ago

to use a laggy, glitchy, inaccurate device like Kinect to do any serious biomachanic analysis.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 2869d ago
PandemicPrawn02869d ago (Edited 2869d ago )

The article is not about baseball games.

It’s about the possibility of using Kinect as an affordable motion capture camera for biomechanics in sports rehabilitation and improving the technique of athletes.

slate912869d ago

Just shows that people only read the headlines and not the actually story.

Bigpappy2869d ago

Is that you have no clue what you are talking about.

Nariko-20112869d ago

GEES! Mention Kinect in a positive light and watch the insecure Move Horde come in and try talk up Move when nobody was interested in it.
Did you even read the darn article?

jarrod19812869d ago

no they didnt read it, they never do. that article just has to be about kinect and they show up and bash it. its really annoying. sony fanboys are the worst.

Moonboots2869d ago

BrianC if you had Kinect, try the table tennis game and get back to me.

I agree Move is great but still wondering what it has to do with anything this article is about?

I'm going to guess you didn't even read it, saw the headline and went into Move salesmen mode. No thanks.

DavidBanner2869d ago

I can see myself pitching and bating in the dark.

BrutallyBlunt2869d ago (Edited 2869d ago )

Move is very accurate but the only thing it's accurate on is where the Move is in position with the camera. How can the Move or the Eye camera possibly track ALL the movements on your arm (twisting and bending of the elbow and wrist) over what Kinect can do? The camera is needed to track in 3D and the Eye is not able to do 3D body movements like Kinect can.

If you read the article it talks about preventing injuries. The Move controller could only track the force of the throw and where the round ball is on the Move which would be at the end of your hand. It would not be able to tell what the rest of your arm is doing while in motion.

Swinging with a baseball bat would be better on the Move. Pitching would be just as limited as playing disc golf on sports champions.

The problem with Kinect is right now it seems to have a hard time keeping up with quick movements. There is a lot of motion that goes into each pitch. I'm not sure either device would be able to do pitching justice at this point in time.

Cueil2869d ago

with Kinect is bandwidth... if MLB was interested Microsoft could develope something using USB 3.0 or propriatery connection that would allow a high resolution image to pass through

Jaces2869d ago (Edited 2869d ago )

Doubt it.

If Kinect cant even capture the slight movements of your wrist then their is no point, it's just like bowling for Kinect where you have to throw out your whole arm to get a spin on the ball.

Cueil2869d ago

it's the limitations of USB 2.0's bandwidth... you have a certain amount of data to send and you can't send even one HD video stream through USB 2.0 without some fancy compression.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 2869d ago
arragionthegreat2869d ago ShowReplies(2)
BrianC62342869d ago

Kinect doesn't have fine enough controls for baseball. Also, there's too much lag. Now Move would be perfect for a hitting simulator. MLB 11 The Show will hopefully use Move for hitting. That would be great.

Armyntt2869d ago

Having both i dont believe either is suited for a simulation style baseball game but both would be great for arcade baseball types. Id pick up a backyard baseball style game for either for sure.

Nariko-20112869d ago

Just how exactly your little Move PR speech is in any way or form relevant or even warranted...go on, I'll give you 10 mins

dragon822869d ago

I think you are about the last person to be preaching about trolling or unwarrented comments. I have been reading your comments all day in the GT5 articles.

shikamaroooo2869d ago (Edited 2869d ago )

doesnt sony owb the licence to baseball hence MLB being PS3 Exclusive

dragon822869d ago (Edited 2869d ago )

MLB: The Show is exclusive to sony but the article is talking about using Kinect as a medical diagnostic tool to help treat and prevent baseball injuries. Its not talking about an actual baseball game for Kinect. The problem is that Kinect is nowhere near as good as the tech they already have in place for this stuff.

Bigpappy2869d ago (Edited 2869d ago )

But that is part of the point. No one has yet tried to write software to see if kinect would be helpful as a cheaper altenative. It may be good enough to track the movement at creticle points, instead of every single detail, and provide enough info. But none here know what can be done with the tech. So instead of pretending you know what you are talking about, why not let some talented people have a shot at it, and see what they can do. Even if Kinect lens aren't fast enough, don't you think they can use the same tech and just upgrade the lens? Darn kids.

oldjadedgamer2869d ago

I think its funny that you think you know what you are talking about.

It's not just the software. You need to be able to capture the event at high frame rates to be able to break down a baseball throw into many parts. It's also the accuracy which needs to be as close to perfect as possible. The software will just calculate the torque, angles, stress, etc - but its based on capturing an accurate picture.

If you want to know the truth, the Move more closely resembles what we use. Just picture having about 20 move sensors attached to your body.

So instead of pretending you know what you are talking about, shut up. Stupid Kids.

Cueil2869d ago

maybe you don't understand, but Bigpappy's comment was correct... a change of RGB and the addition of a higher resolution IR Camera using some high bandwidth connection could be done for under 10 grand... a joke of a price to help a pitcher correct potentially unhealthy throwing behavoir... it could also be used to teach different styles

oldjadedgamer2869d ago

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Research on pitching mechanics is already being done in biomechanic labs. They already have equipment and software to do this. In my lab, we have 10 high powered stationary cameras set in the room were we have test subjects.

So yes, increasing the power of Kinect is not enough. What is more accurate, a view captured by 10 cameras or 1?

And I really think you don't understand the time it takes for information to get released to the public and even longer to be used in mass even if the results are conclusive in what they were testing.

So having a high powered Kinect would still be useless in the labs and research we are doing.

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You Noob2869d ago ShowReplies(1)
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