Example of positive bias:
Chevrolet Camaro
-fast 0-60mph times
-sexy styling
-large displacement V8
-easy and cheap to maintain
Example of negative bias:
Chevrolet Camaro
-long braking distances and corners poorly
-cheap interior
-poor gas milage
-low build quality
Example of neutral bias:
Chevrolet Camaro
-fast 0-60mph times but long braking distances and corners poorly
-sexy styling but cheap interior
-large displacement V8 but poor gas milage
-easy and cheap to maintain but low build quality
This article:
Chevrolet Camaro
-fast 0-60mph times
-sexy styling
-large displacement V8
-easy and cheap to maintain
Ford Mustang
-long braking distances and corners poorly
-cheap interior
-poor gas milage
-low build quality
I chose the camaro/mustang because they are historic rivals that were on relatively equal footing. Okay, okay, I'll spell it out for you, I wasn't making a literal comparison, it's an analogy. Now read it again and see if you can find the hidden meaning.
Besides, I don't think you want to make a literal comparison since the mustang is one of Ford's best selling vehicles while the camaro was taken out of production several years ago due to lack of interest.
And for the record, notice my use of the word 'equal'. It's almost like I don't think one console is better than the other... weird.
Is this guy bias?
“I’ve gotten a little sick of PS3’s hardware being misunderstood and incorrectly compared to other consoles/PCs out there.”
He is not even done with college, “I am no John Carmack. I am 20 years old, and in college for Computer Science.” And after writing some comments about how he thinks the PS3 it’s more powerful than the 360 he adds, “The above statement is under strict review and is likely invalid. Further discussion will ensue related to this topic in this thread. A revision change may be made later.”
And for the enjoyment of Sony fanboys he writes the obvious and the most predictable statements (coming from a Sony Fanboy), “Microsoft has nice tools to help developers get the most out of Xbox360, which is a noble and needed effort for developing better games. But in the end, Xbox360 has a lower roof than the Playstatation 3, and over time the lead will show and be undeniable. Taste in games is purely subjective so I won’t say Playstation 3 will have better games as a whole, but they will be technically superior over time.”
This guy did his research and i actually looked into some of the points he brought up and found them to be valid. I myself like to do research, especially when i do it to prove the legality of the research of others, and in the end, it turns out that this guy knows what he is talking about. Once again, the ps3 is the best way to go for many reasons and this read only adds on to the list. I really recommend this to others. Although quite extensive, it is worth checking out.
Why can't you understand that this dood did a ton of research on the subject and is just stating the facts. He never said this article was a comparison of the systems, he was stating what he found in all he has read. It doesnt' matter how old he is or if he's out of college yet. Some parts could be considered biased but honestly it was an article about the PS3 to begin with. He's not going to write that huge of an article to at the end say it's going to suck.
We knew this allready. But how much time is the question? Because if it takes 3 - 4 years what is the point. X1 was awome from the start. 360 is the same. So I think people who read about this stuff should know this allready. The price still sucks and what dev. are doing looks bad too. Call me fan boy if you have to but thats how it is bottom line.
Sony lie all the time,the guys talking utter mince,he didnt even get the number of spe on the cell right,the ps3 has 7 spe not eight and most of the spe will be takin up by the ps3 operrating system and audio as well of decoding the beta ray,as for the rxs its a 7900 modifed old news.
the last time i looked the cell had i core and 7 spe,this guys keeps on sprouting that the cell has 8 cores...quote
Additionally, the 8 operational cores of the Cell, with 2 threads on one core provides for far more options for multithreading games. But I guess he forgot to give Playstation 3 the same objective look.The guy cant even get the right number of cores on the cell right..i rest my case
"PS3 is multicore it just doesn't have 3 full cores only one. The SPE are processors just specialize processors and there are 8 of them all included with the full core on one chip. Just because the PS3 doesn't use full core doesn't change the fact that it is still multi cored."
it does have 8 cores, however only 7 are active, 1 is redundant, you see they expect 1 of the cores to FAIL from time to time, so they have the eighth core to kick in. If they expect 1 to fail from time to time, I wonder what happens when 2 fail?
Don't get me wrong, it was a great read. Very detailed. But totally Bias. He wins an award for most elloquent Sony fanboy ever to live, that much is certain. I just wish he could've used his awesome knowledge to actually give a fair comparison. Fact is, the two consoles focus on different areas, and end up being practically equal.
While I understand, or at least hope, that you're kidding with this comment. I have to point out that that is not at all the case. Computer engineers actually use an approximately equal amount of math to computer scientists. Realistically this is usually the case. During schooling the computer engineer has more because he has to take the standard electrical engineering courses as well. There's actually a fairly large difference between computer engineers an scientists. The CS major is responsible for writing the software used on a daily basis by people across the world, where as the CE is responsible for the hardware it all runs off of. The theories and practice behind each, while there are similarities, are largely very different.
haha, yah of course. Actually that joke is modified. Instead of comp. sci. it should be i.s.t..
I'm in comp. eng. at PSU right now and yah I know plenty comp. sci. guys. I know all the classes they take and yes they aren't nearly as well informed on how circuitry really works. But that's obvious, and was just a joke.
Hehehe, I was fairly certain you were joking, but figured I'd post that anyway to clear it up in anyone else's mind that might not understand. How are you enjoying the CE program at PSU, I nearly went there, but opted for the same program at UIUC instead.
This guy is so biased. He claims that unified shader/vector are not the future since no companies use it. Well true because the technology is new, same as saying no company will ever use cell because no one has it now.
I haven't read the post yet as it's blocked here at work, but I definitely will as that site has great users and a lot more thoughtful dialog on both sides than what is generally represented here. This site is good for finding news, but as far as discussion goes, it's bad as there are no moderators, no ways of banning members, etc.
”Other developers wouldn’t piss in their pants and would be confused at what SIMD actually means for them. They might be too stuck in their old ways to see how SIMD processors can drastically increase game performance and only consider the general purpose abilities of the SPEs scoffing at them for not having a cache. If they want this type of computing power, they would think the PS3 is probably a piece of crap to program for and clearly measure Xbox360 to be superior or closely matched with its 3 cores and much easier to use developement tools.” ***John Carmack***…LOSER!
”Playstation 3 is a console built with the future in mind.”…..DAMN RIGHT IT IS! Playstation 1 had a very long life, and Playstation 2 is still going strong. Considering the length of time people will continue to play these consoles, it is important that they are not outdone by future advancements. The best a console can do is look to the horizon to see what’s coming, and that is what Sony is doing with the Playstation 3.
Blu-ray may not be the next generation movie format. If it is, then all the more reason to buy one. If not, the vast space is still there for games should something come up that does motivate the increase the size of games.
HDMI is future proof in the sense that even though the image constraint token(ICT) may not be used until 2010, if it ever comes into play the $600 Playstation 3 can still support it. The fact that it will support the newest HDMI 1.3 spec that TVs don’t even support yet also shows that once these things become mainstream, Playstation 3 will be right there to utilize it.
Gigabit Ethernet may not be commonplace today, but in 2-5 years, I’m positive that gigabit Ethernet home routers (really just switches running IPNAT), will be down to the price of 100mbps routers today. Although the internet will not be moving that fast because of ISP limitations, at least your internal networks will be and LAN features could take advantage of this bandwidth for something like HD video streaming.
WiFi support – if anything does prevent gigabit from becoming widespread, it would be because money was invested in making WiFi cheaper, faster, and more common. In this respect, Playstation 3 is still able to handle it.”
“To me, it seems as if the Cell is a simulation monster. “Supercomputer on a chip” isn’t entirely far from the truth. If the developers fall into a computational mindset for accomplishing tasks on the Playstation 3, the Cell’s advantage with SIMD and parallelism will be utilized and it could bring some truly impressive physics, graphics, and sound to the table. These things will not be done to the level of accuracy as supercomputers since they are fully dedicated to usually one of those tasks at a time, but the accuracy would be reduced to a realistic enough level for the purposes of game play visuals or mechanics. Basic/static AI routines are probably better done on general purpose processors, but I can see certain routines being developed with a computational approach in mind. I wouldn’t expect any “oh sh*z” from Playstation 3 game AI anytime soon though unless major advancements are made in the field entirely.”
”Look for the development studios that pushed the PS2 to its limits to do similar with the Playstation 3. Multiplatform titles are probably not going to do much justice for the Playstation 3’s hardware as the transition between SIMD and non-SIMD processing presents a huge performance gap and they don’t want to alienate either end of the spectrum.”
QUIT YOUR HATING AND WELCOME CHANG3!!
Central processing unit
Main article: Cell microprocessor
3.2 GHz Cell processor: one PowerPC-based "Power Processing Element" and seven 3.2 GHz Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs). The PPE has a 512 KB L2 cache and one VMX (AltiVec) vector unit. Each of the eight SPEs is a RISC processor with 128-bit 128 SIMD GPRs and superscalar functions. Each SPE has 256 KB of L1 cache/software-addressable 4.8 GHz SRAM, called the "Local Store".
Only seven SPEs are active; the eighth is redundant, to improve yield. If one of the eight has a manufacturing defect, it is disabled without rendering the entire unit defective. Additionally, one of the seven active SPEs is reserved for use by the system's OS, leaving six SPEs directly available to applications. QUIT YOUR HATING AND WELCOME CHANG3!! PlayStation won't rule forever.
An fake ass hater, i seen him posting in 360 threads saying good things about 360, then the next day calling 360 a garbage console ect this guys either a NUT! or a kid. lol
Xbox fanwhores will come in here and start crying about how this guys is biased and that he's only 20 years old.
Nevertheless, if you read the article he seems to have experience and the education to write what he did. In addition, this is probably the least biased publication that compares the two systems.
But the most important thing that I think everyone needs to understand, and what this guy stated SEVERAL times, is that hardware doesn't matter in the end if the system doesn't have software support.
I think it is a given that the Wii is the weakest with regard to hardware for a "next generation" console. But who knows, it might come out ahead because people might realize that the games are more fun to play.
I don't care about Gears of War, Assassin's Creed, MGS4, or Halo 3 if they only look good but play like crap.
The reason why I like this article is because it shows that even though (in this guy's opinion" that the PS3 is more "powerful" IT DOESN'T MATTER.
I am sick of the fanwhores coming in here and comparing specs because SPECS DON'T MATTER - see the original Xbox v. PS2 war (Xbox a better system, PS2 had all the vast majority of great games).
And thank you for reading this article, and posting intelligent feedback. After i went through it, myself being a software engineer, this guy hit alot of key points, and things i've been saying for awhile, he just put it in a well written document :).. so KuDos and enjoy
Seriously, he got alot of things right, but he really is biased. Look at how he runs off his credentials and insults the programming skills of every developer who said the PS3 was too hard to code for. He's saying that they were too cr*p at programming to understand how to use a PS3 to its potential, and claiming he knows how to.
In the real world, people who claim to be better than everyone else are usually full of it.
So many developers tesified that it was difficult to program for, so many developers are not porting their games over to the PS3, so many game cancellations, and very few people have committed their games to the PS3 yet. And according to this guy it's because they're all bad programmers. I'll take the word of all the developers over one self glorifying arrogant prick.
when was the last time John Carmack made a technologically superior game engine? I have a lot more respect for guys like Jason Rubin and Andy Gavin; they made one of the best game engines in videogame history and yet hardly anyone recognizes them and the team at Naughty Dog for their achievements.
And they're just one example. In fact, Jason Rubin openly critisizes game programmers who are too lazy to learn assembly and SIMD, especially because of the performance rewards that such coding brings. The PS3 is a vector code monster; simple as that. The PS2 excelled at vector code as well, but was a mere stepping stone to what the guys at IBM, Sony, and Toshiba set out to achieve. It's interesting that the SPEs share some of the instructions sets from the Emotion Engine. Sony's got a long road ahead of them but there's no doubt that they'll deliver.
Still it's a lot of common blabla of this guy, written completely towards the real great PS3. He writes about the seperate parts and just whipes away the faults in this design.
Wasn't the Cell once ment to be a CPU and GPU in one processor? I guess they had to switch lately in the proces to Nvidia for a GPU. It just all doesn't seem very reliable
Admittedly this guy does come accross to me as completely indepedant. But it does seem more fair and balanced than every Sony and Microsoft fanboy comparison. I really liked the fact that he points out that Microsoft's "urgent notice update" bashing the PS3 is complete crap: http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...
I have to say that until Microsoft did this lame move that I was impressed with the way MS was handling the competition from Sony's lame PR moves.
It was at this point MS in my book became as non-credible as Sony when it comes to PR promises.
"The Cell inside the Playstation 3 is an 8 core asymmetrical CPU"
Wrong. The Cell is a single core CPU with 7 SPEs.
You'd think that with all the research he did, programming experience, self study, training and schooling that he lists in his credentials and his own mandate to provide technical, analytical or logical backup that he would have gotten the first fact that he puts to ink correct.
Take this biased positive spin inaccuracy and 'lather, rinse, repeat' it for pages and pages and then mix in a bunch of biased negative spin inaccuracies about the 360 and draw it all together with an intensely ironic conclusion about how so many people are 'talking out of their ass' and I've just saved you 2 hours of reading.
It has ONE core, a single PPE unit. The cell processor is made up of a PowerPC Processing Element (PPE) and 7 (out of 8) functioning Special Processing Elements (SPE). The SPEs are NOT cores, they are reliant on the PPE. The eighth -disabled- SPE is useless, it's not even worth mentioning.
Man, what are people going to say next? I guess they could tape a bunch processors to the outside of a PS3 then tell everyone that it has 50 cores but 49 of them are disabled.
did you even read this article? You sound just like Microsoft. "The SPEs aren't real processors. They're just there for looks. Games will never use those DSPs, which are only meant for decoding video and doing math extremely well. General Purpose is what matters!...but our VMX units do math, which is important. Did we contradict ourselves? o well. Sony shall die!"
Yup, i remember that article. People like you should be kicked off for spreading so much false information, seriously. The SPEs are CORES. They can do anything they want. They don't even need to PPE to run.
-sigh-
Why can't 360 fanatics stick to their own site instead of trying to make themselves look better and forget about how they spent hundreds of dollars on an inferior system, and thus justify their purchase by attempting to trick others into believe the PS3 is broken, weak, poorly designed, and that certain parts of it don't even exist (like the SPEs). What an embarresment to the gaming community.
I'll help you pick apart the Microsoft article, it was also horribly biased but that doesn't change the fact that this 'article' is propaganda.
SPEs have neither a memory management unit nor an instruction or data cache and as such they are NOT cores. They are dependent on the PPE core. I didn't say they didn't exist and I didn't say they were useless. The achilles heel of the design is actually the PPE which will need to deal with executing the primary string of code and managing all seven SPEs.
Just as you wouldn't be able to tear your eyes from a train wreck in progress, I did read his write-up from start to finish. He certainly sounds convincing, unless you happen to have read a number of white papers published by IBM beforehand. (you know, the guys that created the cell)
I'm sorry it upsets you when I point out the shortcomings of his (and apparently your) particular paradigm, however, you should try reading a couple dozen white papers before you start talking about embarrassment to the gaming community.
You're an Hard headed Idiot no ones coming over to the PS3 section you F***. Neutral? the same could be said about you're comments. Go join a PS3 only site Fanboy sheeeesh!.
LMAO. Have you read any of my posts. Every single one of them are neutral because I like MS and Sony. You fanwhores are all alike.
I have stated countless times that both systems are great and specs mean nothing. But the fanwhores keep bashing on the PS3 and 360 as if one is blatantly superior. All you fanwhores have one thing in common - tunnel vision. What you don't understand is that good competition is better for the consumer. So you can say all the crap you want about Sony or MS, but it doesn't change the fact that without both systems, we all would get screwed.
That pic posted with the story tells me all i need to know about the poster. I'm going to look for this story on a credible site. Maybe 1up.com or IGN.com posted this story. lol
Ummm, if I've been pimped by Sony then that would mean that I would wait to get a PS3 right? Wouldn't that also mean that none of my notebook computers or desktops would run Windows? Oh yeah, and I guess I would be saying how Gears of Wars looks like junk on the XBox right?
So I guess you could call me both a MS and Sony fanwhore. At least I can readily admit that both systems are great and that both systems have something to offer than the other ones.
You think that 360 is the one and only good system which is fine . . . more for everyone else that want a PS3.
No, what I am saying is that there is no such thing as a completely neutral comparison between the systems.
My personal opinion that I have reached after reading all the specs is that the 360 is more powerful (slightly) but the PS3 will have better graphics (slightly).
You know these people are payed to write up certain things, right? If a CEO takes you out for lunch, dinner and shows you around his company, and hands you a free copy of the new game... its called a pay off, and its done everywhere.
I'm going to go with MS; when it comes to the sharing of info; the under dog of vids(MS) and the Software giant(MS) would be playing Russian Rollet if they weren't completly honest in the gaming world. lol
I mean I'm not going to say this guy is dumb or stupid or what not. Obviously he has done his research and probally knows moreso how the Cell VS X360 works but he also mentioned:
"It might not be 100% valid, and clearly there are some perspectives where the focus or priorities shift."
Either fanboy on either side should not be flaming this article unless there is some totally misinformation regarding the facts.
Anyhow I'm sure Jaguar, 3DO and Neo-Geo were technically superior way to SNES and still didnt do well because of software support.
Developers are really the only ones working with this upfront. I wonder what they have to say?
This is a great article everyone, and an exceptionally well written one.
~Good News for PS3~
Good News for PS3 on a ps3 forums site..
NOW THERE'S SOMETHING YOU DON'T SEE EVERYDAY :)
?
Does it down grade it back to a PS2?? or all the way back to the PS1??
Just curious as to how bad it bottlenecks.
Is this guy bias?
“I’ve gotten a little sick of PS3’s hardware being misunderstood and incorrectly compared to other consoles/PCs out there.”
He is not even done with college, “I am no John Carmack. I am 20 years old, and in college for Computer Science.” And after writing some comments about how he thinks the PS3 it’s more powerful than the 360 he adds, “The above statement is under strict review and is likely invalid. Further discussion will ensue related to this topic in this thread. A revision change may be made later.”
And for the enjoyment of Sony fanboys he writes the obvious and the most predictable statements (coming from a Sony Fanboy), “Microsoft has nice tools to help developers get the most out of Xbox360, which is a noble and needed effort for developing better games. But in the end, Xbox360 has a lower roof than the Playstatation 3, and over time the lead will show and be undeniable. Taste in games is purely subjective so I won’t say Playstation 3 will have better games as a whole, but they will be technically superior over time.”
There I saved you having to read for 3 hours.