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VGChartz: PlayStation Move Sell-Through Update

VGChartz has come under some scrutiny in the last couple of weeks over PlayStation Move estimates with figures released from Sony seemingly showing significantly larger sales than we reported. There are two fundamental reasons for this - firstly is that Sony is referring to a different measure of sales to VGChartz. Secondly, VGChartz underestimated their sales by around 20%.

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Karooo2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

wow really?

saint_john_paul_ii2677d ago

i we surprised by this??? Seriously, this is VG chartz, we already know their rep.

Game-ur2677d ago

They refuse to count controllers, ignoring over 10 million PSeye owners who only need a controller.

morganfell2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

Let the backpeddling begin. I have been saying this for weeks and my post history shows it, even as late as this morning. I am sure they will point fingers at everyone from Sony to internet dwarves that steal data.

They aren't through either. Wait till we see PS3 sales figures from Sony.

bmw692677d ago

I'm not seeing any backpeddling - they are supporting their data by saying that they are counting something different to Sony. Did you actually read the article?

Also, it doesn't say anything about refusing to count controllers - it says that they are taking the total number of controllers sold and dividing it by the ratio of 1.7 which from studies of other consoles is the typical number of controllers a person buys at launch. In other words, some people buy 1, some buy 2, some buy 3, some buy 4 - the average is about 1.7 so from the total number of controllers sold you can get back to an estimate of number of unique PS3s that have 1 or more Move controller.

It really isn't that difficult for anyone who can comprehend English?

ct032677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

It's not difficult for anyone who can comprehend English.
But it's impossible to understand for the average N4Gtard who didn't even bother to read the article, half a dozen of which have already disagreed with you.

BulletProofVess2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

VGchartz states all of its figures regarding this are based on estimates and on [internal data] which was at least underestimated by 20%

then the rest of the article blames pretty much everything else out on the internet and directly from Sony for the reason there numbers are and can be referred to as not that "unreasonable"

come on when ever a site is referring to their own figures as not that "unreasonable" and based on "internal data" which underestimated it by "20%"
loses it creditability in my book

VGchartz lets just leave the real reporting to Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/NDP/et c.

Biggest2677d ago

Wow. I'm ignoring their numbers and reading their reasoning. It makes no sense. They're giving "hard numbers" based on admittedly wrong estimates from Pachter. They're subtracting numbers based on who they feel are new buyers (ie: Not buying multiple controllers). One of their commenters mentioned that they are opening a can of worms by choosing to remove numbers of repeat buyers while also ignoring those same possibilities for other gaming products. The fact that they used the Pachter number when he himself said he was way off is enough to say. . . Their entire process is retarded.

raztad2677d ago

Counting the number of unique MOVE compatible PS3 is rather tricky. I dont think even Sony has a reliable figure.

You may say unique MOVE PS3 = number of bundles sold, but then you would be neglecting the number of PS3 owners that have a PSEye beforehand.

I dont quite get where VGC gets that 70% of PS3 owners getting a second MOVE. That is just a gross estimate, isnt it?

Two more points:

Since when Latin America became such an important market? it is always mentioned as it has a big impact in MOVE sales. I seriously doubt it.

Amazon, wallmart are reporting MOVE out of stock and Tretton said they had to increase production to keep up with demand. This doesnt correlates well with that "50% - 60% sell-through rate". Which is not bad by itself.

kneon2677d ago

Given that it's back ordered or out of stock almost everywhere, the standalone move controller sell through must be 95%+. The navigator is usually available in most places as is the PS Eye+Move+game bundle so they don't seem to be selling nearly as quickly.

morganfell2677d ago

Where does blind dart throwing vgchartz put me? I owned 2 cameras before Move. At launch I bought 1 Sports bundle, a second Move controller, 2 Navs, and 2 charging stations. Several of my "already owned a camera" friends bought the Sports Champ bundle and a second Move.

Longrod_Von_Hugendon2676d ago

"it says that they are taking the total number of controllers sold and dividing it by the ratio of 1.7 which from studies of other consoles is the typical number of controllers a person buys at launch."

So what that boils down too is that they don't have a fucking clue and it's a total guessing game.

sikbeta2676d ago

Hahahaha... I'm sure it's more than 20%... they're always wrong...

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 2676d ago
rroded2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

funny that they put this out guess they are getting a lot of heat for their bs lol

"The second difference in reporting is that VGChartz believes that the number of unique Move users is more meaninful than the number of controllers sold. As a developer, you are targetting a percentage of PS3 owners who are "Move-compatible", not the number of individual controllers sold. It also makes far more sense when comparing sales of Move to Kinect or Wii - if four people play Kinect or a customer buys a Wii with four controllers it counts as one sale, not four. Therefore, using historical trends on controller attach ratios, VGChartz reported Move sales as unique owners"

so how do they tell how many each person buys... even then how they know you aint buying an extra move as a gift... since when is a sale not a sale... right if its ps3 related. saps

bmw692677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

Read the article - it is just pure math. They take the number of controllers sold, then use the typical ratio of 1.7 controllers per hardware that is seen on other hardware at launch (360, PS3 etc) and divide by 1.7 to give an estimate of how many unique users are out there based on number of controllers sold.

They never claimed to be individually counting each sale, just using math and assumptions / ratios to arrive at one figure from another.

@Baka - Pachter gets full NPD data - you really think he is "guessing" how many Move controllers were sold? Also when you say official figures - there is no such thing as an official figure as there is no clear definition of a "Move sale". You really think it is fair to compare the number of Move controllers sold to the number of Kinect cameras when you need 4 Move controllers to play a 4 player Move game and 1 Kinect camera?

Also I don't get your point about math bending to convenience. The controller to console ratio (i.e controller to camera where a person owns both in this case) is going to lie between 1 and 4, somewhere. For an established console it will be around 2.5, for a new console it will be more like 1.5 - 2. Maybe the ratio of 1.7 is a little too high or a little too low, but it doesn't really change the argument.

Baka-akaB2677d ago

Pure math bending to convenience is more like it .

Seriously the part about "estimated guesses from Patcher" , being added to their already estimated guesses , should be a clue that it aint worth much till official figures .

FriedGoat2677d ago

You cant play 4 player on kinect. The end.

FriedGoat2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

oops

BulletProofVess2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

You state the following
"Read the article - it is just pure math."
"[VGchartz]just using math and assumptions / ratios to arrive at one figure from another"

way to contradict yourself... "pure math" is not using "assumptions" to "arrive at one figure or another"

Chaos Striker2677d ago

Obviously you have never taken a finance class or math class for that matter. You use industry standard ratios and logic based assumptions to derive a formula that can forecast the sales of a product. HENCE MATH. Jeez, people really really lack logic and rationale.

seinfan2677d ago

Math actually does make assumptions. Induction anyone?

Da One2677d ago

LOL, never wanna see that class i again

Boody-Bandit2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

Reality = "Read the article - it is just pure guesstimation, some speculation and in some cases a dash of wishful thinking" <- vgcharts

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Pennywise2677d ago

I wonder when they will finally admit to doing this with the PS3 console too.

bustamove2677d ago

I just laugh whenever I see a VG Chartz link.

tinybigman2677d ago

I pretty much don't care what they say at this point. I bought my 2 Moves, and Nav to use with my core games. Time Crisis will probably be the only on rails games i'll buy for move, but at least its a core game.

There's nothing vgc or the haters could say to me about Move.

Andronix2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

I understand VG Charts want to come with a figure of how many unique households have the move as opposed to how many move controllers - but when they make assumptions they make errors.

Firstly they should list their 'facts' first. How many units sold of each. That is move packs, move controllers, navigation controllers and PS3 Move bundles. In this way we all have access to the raw sales data if a tad unreliable TWENTY PERCENT!!!).

Secondly they make assumptions that second controllers are for the same household. Fair enough if always true.... but in Europe their have been big sales of the PlayStation Eye for use with SingStar. I have a PS Eye and so do a few people I know. If I want to get Move connected all I will do is buy the motion controller. Yet VG Charts will ignore these sales as they INTERPRET them as secondary controllers - which in many, many cases will not be true.

I understand VG Charts have to make subjective interpretations of data, in fact it can be a very interesting read. But whenever they do they should be clearly marked out as 'opinion' because the use of subjective calculations is not the same as fact.

Andronix2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

duplicate. Sorry.

JokesOnYou2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

Well they explained it pretty well, its simple math:

"What is important is how many PS3s are Move compatible and that is what we are estimating here." -vgchartz

-So first you have to understand they are estimating "sold" not "shipped", then I could be wrong but I dont think even the most extreme sonyfanboy believes every individual move controller "sold" to a UNIQUE customer= whats the size of move ps3 compatible userbase?

Imperator2677d ago

Seriously, why is this site not banned? They ALWAYS underestimate Sony numbers and overestimate MS numbers. Just 20% right? haha, That WAY too much of "underestimation."

VGchartz is all bs, and, honestly, it's not news. It's rumors at best. Then again I could say the 360 will sell 420,000 and the PS3 will sell 380,000 in NA for Oct. My numbers are as reliable as those presented by VGchartz.

ShadowCK2676d ago

That's all they sold?

Pathetic.

jneul2676d ago

it's much more than 20% lol

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boing2677d ago

vgchartz also count units sold not shipped

RageAgainstTheMShine2677d ago

for xbox 360 VGCrapz counts shipped not sold
how many times they over guesstimate xbox numbers only to backpedal and change them numbers time and time again!

VGCrapz cover has been blown a long time ago...what a waste!

mint royale2677d ago

Proof?

I don't think you will be forthcoming with any so I will reply with some actual proof disproving you.

The end of June 2010, MS reported that they had sold 41.7 million xbox's to retailers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Vgchartz at this time had sales to consumers at 40.7 million.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

There is the 1 million difference of stock on shelves reported by Vgchartz and not an insistance of using MS figures as sold to consumer.

Your argument is just lame.

N4Great2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

Using wikipedia for ms numbers = lol.

@seferoth and other dumb fanboyz, sony and nintendo are using sold numbers, microsoft shipped, and even if they used "shipped" numbers for move in usa (probably to talk about "sold out" problem), it's sold out ! so it means, sold to consumers, poor pathetic donkeys ! :)

"worst site related to gaming. Only morons visit it "

kotaku, edge, cvg, gizmodo, gamedaily, gamtrailer, and some other ms employees are worst.

NoOoB1012677d ago

-_-
Vgchartz DOES NOT TRACK ANYTHING!!!
They simply use "educated guesses" or estimates. that's it.
Don't believe me?
Go read there Terms of use.
http://network.vgchartz.com...

I don't know how many time I have to keep posting this link till you vgchartz fans finally realize that their own site says they don't track, only estimate. -_-

mint royale2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

@ N4great

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... - there you go, non wikipedia MS numbers for you.

And you really are dumb if you think Sony and Nintendo use sold to consumer numbers. They use sold numbers, thats why they say sold, but sold to them means sold to retailers, as its the retailers who they sell to. I don't like MS and I'm nintendo's biggest fan but at least I can admit the truth.

@noob101
Of course vgchartz only uses estimates - they have a very small amount of actual sales data and estimate the rest based on that and historical data. NPD does the same only with more data - the only 3 companies that woun't use any estimations are Sony, MS and Nintendo because they will know exactly what they have supplied.

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360RRODFIX2677d ago (Edited 2677d ago )

worst site related to gaming. Only morons visit it

Raoh2677d ago

it's amazing a site like this is able to continue to operate.

Blaster_Master2677d ago

amazing? what in the hell do they do besides kiss microsoft's butt?