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PlatinumGames chimes in on Xbox 360 DVD storage space debate

PlatinumGames has become the latest developer to raise its concerns over Microsoft's decision to stick with DVD for Xbox 360, saying that it was "a bit hard to compress everything in one disc" for Vanquish, and that the team thought they might have to cut content.

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VINNIEPAZ2616d ago

And here we goooooooooo..........

StanLee2616d ago Show
GWAVE2616d ago Show
Troll_Police2616d ago

@Stan Lee

That's why it's only 4 hours long. They ran out of space on the DVD.

Neckbear2616d ago Show
InTheKnow2616d ago

...really???...no room...hmmmm...How did Bungie/epic get a single player campaign, 4 player story based co-op, Halo forge map creation, Firefight/horde mode, and multi-player all on one disc...O_o

Remedy's Alan Wake uses 2.5 gb for ALL the game play. RDR, GTA...please Platinum, do yourself a favor and be quiet. If it was a problem, then why didn't you add MORE game play to the PS3 version.

Good developers make good games...bad developers make excuses.

2616d ago
DelbertGrady2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

Fallout 3 & New Vegas. Both 40+ hours and on 1 DVD9 disc respectively.

Come again?

Hell, I could even bring up Bayonetta as an example. The disc size didn't seem to bother Platinum that time, did it? And to top it off the game ran much better on the 360.

vsr2616d ago

The value for $60 Bluray is compromised for $60 DVD. This is very frustrating.

Developer should serve customers as per their machine specs.

secksi-killer2616d ago

and below the likes of shadowflare and the other idiots in the brigade..

but look what the castlevania devs did, made their game on 2 discs, with the option to instal and play with the other! not the most ideal choice, but a good one nonetheless.....and i think it will become more mainstream aswell.

now this dont work for everyone because the idiots at microsoft decided to make a version of their console without a hdd. but for me it's fine. and thats all that matters.

but, whats the point of trying to explain anything to you lot. you live and breathe sony. whereas "gamers" like me who own all systems see through the rubbish

DMason2616d ago

I dont know what Platinum is even talking about. They didnt even use all the space. The disc has 6.9gb of information. They had a whole 1.6gb left over that they didn't do squat with. I call this BS.

RageAgainstTheMShine2616d ago

"Microsoft's Steve McGill recently commented on the concerns saying that "people now recognise what a smart decision using DVD was to keep the pricing low"."

Yeah right whatever... classic xboxic retardness

MisterNiwa2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

InTheKnow, because it is all based on the same effing maps. I got the game I know it, so shut your mouth.

Forge is nothing else but adding platforms to an already existing map.

The story just adds players instead of computers as your squad and the horde mode is nothing that would take several gbs to implement.

ImpartialMan2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

do they really think that devs are not affected by the small storage space of DVD???

pretty much all devs do.... imagine Fallout new vegas if xbox had bluray.

they probably had to work on compressing all the audio files. use same audio files for some unimportant characters. limit the size of the world and blah blah blah

+ Show (10) more repliesLast reply 2616d ago
Fishy Fingers2616d ago

In storage yes of course, but read speeds, nope, hence the often installs in multiplats. It's give and take (at least until BD speeds increase)

Shadow Flare2616d ago

If uncharted 2 can be played with zero installs and zero load times, then there's no excuse

Fishy Fingers2616d ago

Uncharted used a custom engine built solely for the PS3, thats why I mention >multiplats< in my original comment.

Shadow Flare2616d ago

I'm just saying, it can be done. If devs put the effort in

Fishy Fingers2616d ago

Haha, yes, it's purely a lack of effort on the developers part, que the disagrees for me.

maverick402616d ago

but it is because of lack of effort that ps3 owners have to install. Again, if 1st party developers can have no install on their game, so can 3rd parties too. But because its not a big deal anyways to install a game they dont bother.

Fishy Fingers2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

Yeah 3rd party developers building multiplats should build two entirely different engines to hand the data streams differently, otherwise, its just a lack of effort on their part right.

And what about situations like MGS4, did Kojima not put in enough effort then? Or QDs Heavy Rain?

It's ok to except that the first gen BD readers arent god given.

Shadow Flare2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

Why are you getting so arsey about this fish? We're just discussing something geez. And as a matter of fact I was just thinking of mgs4, and I really don't know why we needed mandatory installs with every chapter. Because once again, uncharted didn't need any. And mgs4 is ps3 exclusive, so I have no idea why that needed so many installs. Because frankly uncharted 2 is a lot better technically and graphically then mgs4, so I don't know what's going on there.

Actually mgs4 was on a 50gb disc, which is probably the reason for the installs. But this is an extreme case since very very few ps3 games use 50gb discs. In fact I can't think of any others. So it's not a great example to use.

As for multiplats, isn't that the reason more devs try to make ps3 the lead platform, then port to 360 since there are less issues? I don't remember having to install burnout paradise and that was great on both systems

number472616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

If your argument is BD is slow, yet none of those games - which out perform every single multiplatform in the world - run with no Install... you're just ignoring it since it doesn't make your point.

So to test drive a race car, you use a less skilled driver, than a professional race driver.. right? That makes sense right?

talltony2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

The fact is that DVD's second layer reads slower than bluray ever does. Bluray consistently reads the same speed in single layer and in dual layer. Bet you didnt know that.

Fishy Fingers2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

2× BD 72Mbit/s 9MB/s
16x DVD 172.80Mbit/s 21.60MB/s

Thought I'd just provide you with the numbers, since you seem to think you know the score.

Yes DVD speeds vary, but overall, they still beat 2xBD speeds, only once BD hits around 4x does it become comparable. It's not complicated, and it's ok to admit and still enjoy your PS3, like me.

@number47, again, its not difficult, exclusives allow developers to build their engine to accommodate "weak" aspects of a console, in this case, data streaming from the disc. Are you suggesting devs like Rockstar or Kojima arent skilled?

Car analogies... Relevant...

Persistantthug2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

seeing that the DVD drive in the XBOX 360 is 12X, not 16, but then you certainly weren't averse to using the speed that the PS3's BluRay drive is currently at, 2X.

Just thought I'd point that out to you there Fishy Fingers.

Also, when Rockstar and Kojima made their engines, that was 3 years ago. So yeah, it's safe to say that back then they weren't as skilled as they might be today with the PS3's architecture.

talltony2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

this should clear some things up.
http://www.psu.com/forums/t...

+ Show (10) more repliesLast reply 2616d ago
Hades13372616d ago

It's the same argument as the PS3 being difficult to code for. Some developers have problems, others don't. It just depends on the given developer's work practices; games aren't all developed in the same way.

JUDALATION2616d ago

Casslevania was a great game but it was missing something in my opinion... I sure hope they did not have to cut THINGS like lost planet 2 admitted they did on both systems in order to fit the XBOX... this is sadly one reason why PS3 exclusives in my opinion are beginning to surpass multiplats and other platform exclusives. The more story you can fit into one disk the better as more is often better... look at metal gear solid 4, it had like a 10 hour story mode and a multiplayer as well. Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2 and resistance 1,2,3, all have story modes longer than 7 hours... that cant be done in one diskn on the xbox...

MorganX2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

It depends mostly on the given developer's "skill sets." Obviously it is easier to develop only for one platform. But most developers would like to develop for multiplatforms to increase their potential market.

At that point, the quality and ease of use of development tools becomes quite important as well as the realtionship and suppport provided by platform principals (to) their third party developers.

talltony2616d ago

"Coding can be overcome storage cannot"

Shaman2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

Yea....and GTA IV and RDR are both enormously big open world games with 30+ hour main story,wonderin how they do it...DVD9 should not have problems with game like Vanquish...FF13 and games alike that use CG cutscenes need much more on the other hand.

Troll_Police2616d ago

Open world games are only re-used data. Non open world games takes a lot more storage space than open world games because it's always new and different areas.

secksi-killer2616d ago

lol stfu. are you seriously trying to say that???

my god you are without doubt one of the biggest idiotic fanboys on here

radphil2616d ago

@secksi-killer

He has a point though. Open world games re-use a lot of data. Look at the same numbers of npcs, cars, buildings, etc that you see when walking around.

Not only that, but you don't have the entire world loaded up on display at the same time. There's a filtering trick that one can use, by making it so that while the camera isn't faced towards and object, you turn the culling filtering so that it becomes "invisible".

JokesOnYou2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

What's up with these dev's lately, complaints are great, thats how companys improve their assets but at least make them believable....this game looks great but come on its only 4hr, 6hr max game. I mean seriously theres not a whole lot of content compared to other shooters and from what I hear PG has a bunch of filler code with multiple language dialogue and still theres plenty space left on the DVD9. Ultimately they said everything fit, but regardless I'm just not buying all the BS this gen from dev's. At least be straight up with us and just say you want to make more profits but complaining about space for an excuse to release "special content" a month after release is just BS, well I guess its slighty better than the move Capcom pulled by making us pay for DLC versus mode thats already on the disc. Oh for sure I think we will be seeing more multiple disc 360 games as games grow but don't try to piss on me and tell me its raining. If you complain about disc space then the game should be loaded with sp and multiplayer options for a shooter like this,(Reach says hi) maybe Bungie should have help them out with their coding. I'm going to lmfao when we see a Vanquish "special mission" DLC pack available in a month or two. lol

JOY

AKS2616d ago

If they want to force Microsoft to make changes, developers just need to release games that take advantage of the storage difference in the PS3 version. That would force them to allow mandatory installs and whatnot if it's needed for the nature of the game. I'm not sure Vanquish would be one of those games, however. I would think a big open world game or a huge RPG would be more of the type that leads to problems with limited storage capacity. In such cases, there are still issues even with multi-disc games and assets you might need to inefficiently replicate on multiple discs. However, it seems like Vanquish could easily use 2 discs if they didn't have enough space.

JokesOnYou2616d ago

I agree, only thing I would add is that ps3 exclusive games themselves haven't exactly shown in a tangible way to gamers anything that wouldn't be possible on multiple DVD's. The fact is 99% of games this gen easily fit on 1 disc and given the game design/stucture/genre if a dev wanted to they could have easily made the same game with multiple discs. Now with that said bluray is a great format and I'm sure dev's appreciate sony giving them plenty of space on 1 single disc.

JOY

AKS2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

The audio of the top PS3 exclusives could only be matched by the PC and nothing else. Uncharted 2 and SOCOM sound mindblowingly good through a mid- to high-end surround system, and it's not even a contest on that front.

Visually, it's much closer. I'd argue the PS3 has the best visuals in the most graphically elite console games (God of War III, Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5), but it takes a greater amount of optimization than the 360 for most games, especially using licensed engines like the Unreal Engine, which makes development more costly in many cases. Plus, it's difficult to separate where the talent of Sony's beastly first and second party developer talent pool ends and any potential hardware advantages begins. I personally believe the PS3 hardware has a bit more processing power (but certainly far from a 4D supercomputer than Kutaragi claimed it was; LOL) than the 360, but in the hands of Polyphony, Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica, ect it's got some incredible software. If those developers worked for Microsoft on the 360 instead of Sony, I have no doubt that they would still make incredible looking games, but I'm not sure they would look quite as impressive. How much is hardware and how much is stellar developer talent? It's tough to know for sure. Both machines certainly run beautiful games in talented developers' hands.

The only thing that has been clear to me is the significant audio advantage, as I have a nice Marantz/ Polk 7.1 setup and notice a significant advantage for PC and PS3 games. Visually, the the consoles are much closer, with the main differences being visual advantages in the graphically elite PS3 games but a simpler, cheaper development process for smaller third party developers. Audio is as important as visuals for me, so keep that in mind regarding how that shapes my opinion and how my opinions would differ from others, including yours.

ImmortalLegend2615d ago

Microsoft has the advantage just like any other system that came out first. If Sony came out with the PS3 first, things probably would have been different. You PS3 owners can't blame Microsoft for beating Sony to the punch. If the PS3 didn't have Blu-ray none of these damn developers would be bitching at all. Great developers deal with limitations and adapt. Stop the bitching.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 2615d ago
GoldenGamer2616d ago

its 4 hours long already what the f**k could they cut?

Neckbear2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

Here we go.

You don't seem to understand than the game lenght usually doesn't means how much said game weights.

Fallout 3 is 60 hours of reused textures and enviorments.

Vanquish, for what I've heard, has variety on the levels. That takes up space.

God, I wish retards would shut up.

@Blaster_Master

Hahah, oh wow.

Cuts normally happen on games. After they've decided what goes in and what doesn't, they start making said game.

You know, that's how usually...ugh, nevermind.

You know what? It actually feels like all you retards don't even bother thinking a little and reading people comments.

God.

Blaster_Master2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

The other half of the game. Im sure that if I was a dev, and all I had to do was make half a game and sell it for full price I wouldn't be upset about that either.

Spideynut, please tell me of these superior games your talking about.

SpideyNut2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

Far better...and LONGER...games than Vanquish and C:LoS have been put on a single DVD9. MS made the right decision...and the ONLY decision they could, considering when they launched. Not even HD-DVD was ready until AFTER the 360 was launched, as both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were experiencing the same supply issues during R&D (for the diodes). If MS had waited to include HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, they don't launch a year early, and the rest is history....

Go ahead and disagree, if you don't understand the facts..it's OK. Looks like 11 people fail to understand, so far. Ignorance is bliss? :)

jc485732616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

whatever

MegaMohsi2616d ago

so a lot of developers complaining about the space issues on DVD are wrong and you are correct right?

SpideyNut2616d ago

...and the devs are just beating a dead horse, yes. Do they really think MS can/will change the media format this late in the generation? Hell, even if they'd tried that early on, like in year 2, they'd have a class-action lawsuit from the 20 million DVD9 360 owners who couldn't play any future 360 games. If you...and these few whiny devs....don't understand that, then there's no hope for you, and all I can do is laugh at you.

MegaMohsi2616d ago

all they had to do to fix this issue was make hdd's standard and that would alleviate all the problems with limited space but they couldn't even do that. MS had options they just screwed up, not for themselves because obviously its all about getting to the market first and profit for them but for the gamers.

Pennywise2616d ago

MS screwed this generations multiplatform games up with DVD. Anyone who doesn't see this is stupid.

Anon19742616d ago

And it's a little late for developers to be complaining about it now. When Microsoft was unveiling the specs to them 6 or 7 years ago, that was when they should have spoken up.

secksi-killer2616d ago

thats why gta4 and saints row are just open world games that consist of two roads...oh wait, they destroy infamous (the sony exclusive open world game) in every department.

that doesnt mean that i didnt enjoy infamous coz i did, it's just that the two games i mentioned were far better sorry.

and pennywise, i think you should be careful who you say stupid to, being in love with sony, and ignoring some of the gem multi-plats that we've already had this gen doesnt make you correct. everyone knows what side of the fence you sit, whatever you say about the other console makers should be taken with a pinch of salt

Pennywise2616d ago Show
secksi-killer2616d ago

i know you thought you really hurt with "Get your facts straight, kid. Keep playing your games on multiple discs for the rest of this gen" but i'm sorry, i wasnt really affected by your great attempt at a cuss then....lol

i can choose between playing my 360 or my ps3.. so it matters not to me. and more, i had no problem with changing discs on me2, i had no probs changing discs on my ps1 and ps2 either.

sorry penneywise try again, and, i would be MY MORTGAGE that you are some sweaty, spotty teen who has a cheesy helmet and still lives with his parents. because im sure adults dont feel the need to write the rubbish you write about microsoft, and the things you write in your love affair of sony

Pennywise2616d ago

If your word meant anything you would be out of your mortgage. Just because someone dislikes your favorite company doesn't make them a teenager. I am a tech enthusiast. I love new technology. I love companies that innovate and move forward. MS is the opposite of what I like.

Mr_Bun2616d ago

."..im sure adults dont feel the need to write the rubbish you write about microsoft..."

Are you implying that Greenburg is a teenager? Maybe you are implying that the media in general has yet to hit puberty with all the anti Sony slander that has been published regarding the PS3 in recent years.

Better yet, maybe "the need to write rubbish" is only deemed juvenile by you when it is against MS.

/facepalm

ministryx2616d ago

oh yeah, and Sony has done a good job with BR. When Devs do games, they port the 360 code to a BR disk. Oh, like sony has MP games with 50GB space. YEAH RIGHT!! Even with DVD, 360 has had some great games since it came out and now.

BillOreilly2616d ago

how pc uses dvd, wii uses dvd, 360 uses dvd. How is it hard to use 2 disks? How can huge games like rdr and tales of vesperia use only one disk? most games only need like 5 gb's and very few use more than one disk. Mgs4 could be done on dvd using 3 disks and compressing the vids hell maybe it could fit on 2 disks. Dev have no reason to complain when they can use up to 4 disks, they either want to justify selling dlc or are making excuses as to why their game is short.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 2616d ago
You Noob2616d ago Show
Viper72616d ago

Game length still has nothing to do with size, its all in the textures, audio and compression. 3D meshes are not that big and source code itself barely takes space.

Compression is a double edged knife, while it makes the files smaller the decompression also needs resources. Good example:

http://hubpages.com/hub/The...

makingdamage2616d ago

I´m right and you´re wrong.

Go ahead and disagree, if you don't understand the facts..it's OK

SmokeyMcBear2616d ago

you mean they don't gain a year with no competition, and actually make a product was not immensely faulty?

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 2616d ago
jc485732616d ago

No wonder the game is so short. Thanks a lot Microsoft.

Queasy2616d ago

Read the article. Platinum says that they didn't cut anything and that they were able to fit the whole game on the DVD.

Solidus187-SCMilk2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

what was the excuse for games like heavenly sword being 6 hours?

If they had the content to fill two disks the game would not be out yet becuase they would still be making it.

This is the game they put out, and its short. MS didnt make the game and many devs have already made games on multiple DVDs.

Blaming MS for some devs making a short ass game which is SP only, is what the fanboys here eat up.

Will this excuse make you pay 60$ for a 6 hour game?? No, because other devs have done far better with one DVD, and devs have used more then one disk when they truly need it.

To me this is the devs trying damage control for their short game. If they really needed another disk they woulda put it on two disks like the devs who actually make enough of a game to need more than one disk. But whatever, the fanboys love to blame MS for lazy devs.

iNSTEAD OF EATING OUT OF THE PALM OF THEIR HAND, MAYBE YOU SHOULD REALIZE THIS IS THE DEVS TAKING YOU FOR A RIDE. Is DVD space that has been the same since 2005 really an excuse for putting out a 6 hour SP only game when just 2 weeks ago MS out out castlevania on 2 disks.

If you ps3 fanboys honestly think content was cut from the game because of the limited DVD space, then you should blame the DEVS. Clearly other devs, like MS, use more than one DVD when its needed instead of putting out a short game.

Solidus187-SCMilk2616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

so dont get your panties in a bunch.

MGRogue20172616d ago (Edited 2616d ago )

.. An Optional or Mandatory install option for us hard drive owners would have been nice.. maybe then, We would have a much longer game.