There's been a bit of rumor speculation over the Internet regarding the use of an Intel CPU. PS4Sony.net investigates to put the rumors to rest.
If an Intel CPU is used backward compatibility will probably be compromised. If an Intel GPU is used it will have a hard time keeping up with the entry level graphics cards on the market today. Lets hope nothing from Intel is used.
If they use an Intel GPU it's obvious that is not gonna be one of their crappy integated graphic card accelerators(GMA)... Those don't even have their own set of memmory to properly render graphics, a GMA chip can hardly decode 1080p video on its own. The article's making reference about Intel's larrabee, a new line of GPgpu but I think these are not in development anymore. And about BC, the only way to have it through hardware is if the PS4 uses a Cell based CPU which is doubtful so the console will need to be pretty powerful to do it through software.
better stick with IBM.. or AMD
Using an X86 CPU is unlikely, but possible. The fact of the matter is using off the shelf parts and paying licensing isnt likely to cost more than developing a chip from scratch with another company. Development costs arent free, you have to recoup them too when you build a machine and start selling it. Indeed, according to some reports, CELL development cost sony an incredible 2 billion dollars. In many cases, you would be smart to buy something someone else paid to develop- what do you all think PSP2 is going to use? CELL commercialisation besides PS3 hasnt been great, because its a niche CPU. Its abilities and talents are only applicable to rather narrow scenarios versus a conventional design. PowerPC has fallen by the wayside in consumer production. X86 has marginalised it, especially looking at Apple's lineup which 5 years ago was all PowerPc and today all X86. Although this 'article' claims it WONT be intel based, there is still a good chance it may have an X86 processor and thus indirectly....it would be. On the GPU side if nvidia are given the nod for PS4, the bad news is that Nvidia are trailing horribly to AMD when it comes down to performance per watt, performance versus die size and areal efficiency. All of nvidia's current designs rely on the fact their chips are much larger and more expensive to be able to even match AMD graphics architecture. This matters a great deal when it comes to sitting down and discussing the cost of a GPU for a new generation of machines. To give you an idea, an nvidia GTS450 has a die size of 238mm squared, but the radeon 5770 is a match in performance, yet is only 170mm squared. That gap is enormous, the nvidia chip costs a great deal more to manufacture than the Radeon design, and yet it is no faster. It also shouldnt give you much confidence that nvidia have taken 11 months longer just to get a chip out the door in the same segment as the 5770! Bottom line, if Microsoft stick with AMD (formerly ati) and sony nvidia, right this second there isnt much doubt in my mind AMD would deliver a better chip for MS, thats faster and still costs less to make than the best nvidia can come up with for a sony machine.
I think sony will keep cell for backward compatibility
those two prefer to sell chips rather than let clients have modified designs. MS already proved how expensive that was with the original XBox...
well.... ati IS amd... and the gamecube, wii, and 360 all have ati chips so amd IS used. lol owned.
honestly who cares about the PS4 right now, that isn't going to come out for another 10 years.
lies that is all do you really think the ps3 will be on market for 15 years before the ps4 where an extremely cheap computer will be more powerful than the ps3
you mean another 5 years... PS3 has been out for 4, so...4/5 more years before PS4 still I agree, quite a while to go. Don't doubt they are already designing it, but we won't hear anything from it for a couple more years for sure
"where an extremely cheap computer will be more powerful than the ps3" Correction. An extremely cheap computer IS already more powerful than the PS3 or an XBox 360 for that matter.
You mean a year or two. Expect new consoles within the next 2 years. I know devs do.
Meerkat... only the most expensive CPUs, we're talking > $500 i7s, outperform the Cell. That's just the CPU required for this "cheap" computer you're imagining. GPUs, sure, you can best the RSX with a $100 card.. by a little. But then that's another $100. Memory, HDD, so on, so on. No cheap PC can best the consoles, unless by "cheap" you mean 3-4x as much as the consoles cost.
Please stop spreading this nonsense. http://www.7-cpu.com/lzma-c... http://www.overclock.net/in... http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
@above: Nice links, comparing just the PPE to modern processors, with theoretical numbers that like to pretend that cache misses, and cache sharing, aren't a problem. How about you break out a real-world performance test -- like [email protected], that actually suffers from things like cache coherency problems on non-Cell CPUs, and take a good look at real world performance. A Cell design that used the same number of transitors as the i7s that beat it (barely, and only using 6 SPUs, of the 8), like the 4 PPU, 32 SPU design that IBM shelved recently because they wanted to make something even better, would bulldoze any Intel or AMD processor coming for the next 5 years.
oh... god.... you honestly think that the ps4 isnt right around the corner? is it the fact that the ps3 and ps2 coexist on the market at the same time not an indicator to how the next gen will play out? the ps3 will be supported for 6 or so more years but it most certainly will not be the flagship console for all 6. how many times must this be said?
@Chris_TC Those benches you linked to only use the Cells main PPE for calculations, not any of the 7 SPE's. For general purpose processing most modern CPU's are better but for game related processing like AI and physics, Cell has already been proven to be significantly more powerful than even the i7 980x.
They need to redesign the cell so that game developers cant complain and more RAAM like 4 or 2GB and pleazz give a better graphics card for PS4 so that they cud beat xbox 720 in multiplatforms and in exclusives and also BC so that we cud play PS3 games on PS4!!!
Here is what I think the ps4 will feature: The Playstation 4 will feature dual, tri or even Quadruple GPU unit. It will be a lot more powerful than previous generation. This will be a necessity due to stereoscopic split-screen that will be a part of the ps4 at launch. It will most likely be a multi-core unit. I expect the video memory to be at least 2 GB. The processing capabilities will not be increased by the same percentage as the graphic-capabilities. The ps4 will feature an evolved version of the CELL, much more specialized in multi-core processing (parallel processing and what not). Each CELL will be at least a dual-core CELL tnx to a smaller manufacturing process, most likely 28 nm. The clock-speed will not be increased a lot. Will most likely be around 4 Ghz to ensure that they don't risk overheating. Since the developers are in on the development of the ps4 they will be able to take full advantage or nearly at the time the ps4 launch. I expect the ps4 to feature an greatly upgraded version of Blu-ray. The capacity of the discs will most likely be around 100-500 GB with a reading speed of at least 12x. This mainly depends on what the maximum resolution the ps4 will be. It is very likely to be double that of 1080p. This will be needed, again, to support stereoscopic split-screen at high resolutions. You will find at least 4x USB 3.0 ports and an upgraded version of bluetooth. The audio outputs will feature support for 11.1 HD surround. I expect it to support at least 7 normal controllers and at least 8 (or 2x4) upgraded versions of Playstation Move. The included hard-drive will be at least 1 TB. This depends on how big the games will be and how much room one average game requires. It will also support a great number of video, picture and audio formats. The Wifi will be of the latest standards and it will be possible to stream movies, pictures and music from your computer if you buy some sort of Sony dongle thing. The ps4 will also include a cloud-service, feature Netflix and a lot of other services. I think that the more "buzz" we make about features like this, the more likely it is that we will get those at launch :) Thats all. For now.. ;)
Really? a quad gpu? when like 5% of pc users have that kind of setup. 2gb of ram sounds reasonable, maybe more if they want 1080p 3d. USB3.0? when thats only just being adopted in the pc market? 11.1 surround? i don't think so, maybe 9.1 at most. 1tb hard drive is way too big, expect that to be around 300-500gb. They will have to keep it cheap to compete otherwise they'll just lose money again
IF they use a dual, tri, or quad gpu unit it will not be the most expensive obviously. The reason to why I said this is that I believe the CELL-processor would benefit from having two GPU units that are a bit less expensive than having 1 super expensive unit. As for USB 3.0 there is no reason to not include that since it is backwards-compatible. And the reason to why I believe that the harddrive till be 1TB is the possibility of playing 2 games at once through stereoscopic split-screen. You fully install 1 game and use the blu-ray drive for the other. Then you and a friend/wife/husband etc can play different games at the same time. Tnx for responding and not just disagreeing :) Take a look at Paballos post below if you want to see someone that lists all the most expensive things :D My specs pales in comparison.
Have you seen how expensive it would be to factor in a mobo capable of 4 gpus simultaneously working along with the 4 gpus to go with that. Even two gpus would cost way too much, if you were buying 4 nvidia 9800 gtx's (old i know) and a mobo capable of sli'ing those four gpus you would be running over $300 at least! Yeah in an ideal world where money is no object i'm sure it would benefit the cell hugely, but the price along with the heat and power consumption makes it unrealistic. USB 3.0 still adds up to the cost, especially when they're trying to cut that down, it's useless for consoles atm. So you're saying the ps4 should be able to play two different games at the same time in split screen whilst doing all that in ful 3d hd, that's something most modern pc's couldn't even handle! You'd need like two Nvidia Gtx480's or an ATI 5970! that would already put the ps4's price above like $700! While you're post sounds MEGA AWESOME! I just can't see it happening, the price would be too much :( You should buy a computer or something it looks like you want the best of the best haha :P
Why would they use Intel based CPU where CELL is still faster than ANY intel processor ?
More than likely CELL based, upgraded one with more SPU's or multiple existing CELL chips shrunk down. Using CELL would make sense, as they could have hardware PS3 BC, giving a huge library of games from launch. Sony has put to much into CELL tech to ditch it now. IF they stuck with CELL tech, R & D costs would be alot less, as it's already a mature tech. Tried and tested to work flawless. Also cheap to produce meaning Sony could launch with a reasonable price instead of a high price like this gen.
I hope so. Playstation should stay with The Cell. And its good to see developers try to pushing it too the limits. Unlike some Intel based tech their first game is already max out. Aka example Halo and Gears.
They also have more SDK's available to developers making producing games much easier, next time around if they use CELL again it will not be as hard for developers as it was for ps3, because most of them will be educated how to program for the ps3 by then
"We want to stay in the [console] business, we intend to stay in the business." Not exactly confirmation, but close. http://www.pcworld.idg.com.... It seems that they have long time plans for the Cell. I'm sure Sony will want a special version in the PS4. But knows maybe Sony will want to push a new tech with the PS4, we'll have to wait and see.
We are and will be for a long time.
more powerful cell with maybe 2-3 PPU and more SPU, and more memory, a unified 1GB very fast would be the best. And a better GPU, so even developers can't use the cell can develop good graphics
If they do go with cell and do go with BC for the pS3 on the PS4. I only fear that its going to be off the PS3 without BC capabilities meaning no more ps2 and PS1 BC lol. One step forward two steps back~ (hugs his release day 60gb ps3 )
Cool,but Gran Turismo 5 release date?PS4 pff...
THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT WITH CELL WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY ADVANCEMENTS IN GAMES ON PS3, GOING BACKWARDS TO INTEL BASED CHIPS WOULD BE HORRIBLE!!
You know better to type in all caps.... Come on...
I was talking about going back to x86/x64 silly
OMG I CAN TYPE WITH CAPS!!!
Once caps get stuck on, I can't be bothered to change it so go figure
All i want for PS4 to have is a VERY strong GPU (not like the last minute gpu that got from nvidia), 2gb unified system memory and at least 2 cells inside.
it to be a true media center. Which means quality audio outs.
Is HDMI not good enough for you? Wow... you must have some sound system. SuperHD 22.1 by anychance? I doubt that!
the PS4 will be launched in 2013. Think about it. The article is dated for this year that developers are working on games for the PS4. Average development time is 4 years. 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013....which means we should start getting hints this coming year from Sony and Microsoft.
I hope not. I'm content enough right now, without having to see games released on a new $600 system I can't afford.
but that why by the time you're no longer content there will be a price drop
'average development time is 4 year' Another fact from the anus of a poster...development time is VARIABLE. Different technologies require different development times, even they cannot know how long it will take, look at Nvidia's latest round of GPUs...the largest chip maker on the planet had an 8 month delay because of unforeseen problems. Seeing as development time is "4 years average" I'm gonna start working on cold fusion...should be ready in 4 years to the day, forget that people have been trying for 50 years...development time is universal. *throws faeces like confetti* @enkeixpress True, more unified cpu + better GPU and ram would mean much better games. They cell is only as good as the weaknesses of the GPU it can compensate. If there is a good GPU....you can run AA and physics on it, no need to F around devs and gimp PS3 multiplats with proprietary B.S.
As much as I love the cell processor.. I think Sony needs to get rid of it & go for a more popular processor type this time 'round.
I play the 1st party games and I have no problem with the cell or even the emotion engine on the PS2. at this point in time, if someone does not understand the developers are the gimps not the hardware, wake up.. the issue is with the DEVELOPERS I have been buying the better looking MP titles for my 360, just to balance the games on the consoles
Be built with the help of its first party studios giving ideas of what they want & need in the ps3. Ithink that would be a great idea this way sony first party studios have alot more freedom with hdd space, ram, & everything needed to make their jobs alot easier.
All current games consoles use IBM power chips, this is likely to remain. If sony is looking to spend some big bucks on getting to the top, they will look towards the newly released Power7 chip, the mother of all chips. This thing is insanely fast, it was tested with an IBM DB2 database and the throughput was 2 million transactions per second in a retail scenario, if they could use this chip in a gaming sense it would eat the cell.
im already bored of the ps3 :( ... i want ps4 now !! i don't care if u just bought the ps3 !! u can buy the ps4 anytime !! im reeeeeeeally bored ... only gt5 is good this year and the next year :( .. others are normal or sucks :( ........ people shouldn't worry about how they are going to make the ps4 because they know what they do , look what they did to the ps3 !! i didn't expected to see amazing graphics on the ps3 !! and to all people who's saying when gt5 will come : it will release thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeear !!!!! so stop acting like kids and grow uuuuuuuuuuuuuup !!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you're not in it for the long haul, perhaps you should invest in Apple products.
Possible ps4 specs below. Cell broadband engine 2.0(dual)@7-10Ghz.32Spe's( for each cell).5PPE's and a local pool cache memory of 12MB.Hopefully 16nm process.16GB XDR 2.0 RAM @ 7-10Ghz.Cell based custom built GPGPU either by intel larrabee or ATI.Directx12/OpenGL 5. 5000Mhz/5Ghz core.Clock Speed 4500Mhz/4.5Ghz.5billion Transistors.Independant unified Pixel/Vertex Shaders.960pixel pipelines.320vertex pipelines.Displaying @ Ultra Definition/UDHD or Quad HD 7680x4320p.4GB DDR7 video memory. 5-10TB HARD DRIVE. Blu ray2.0 disc storage 500GB to 2TB.Drive Speed 8-12x.USB3.0x2(atleast).Blue Tooth 3.0.WiFi2.0.Dual Shock4/Move2.Remote play2.0(compatability and features with PSP2),Playstation Cloud Intergration(to be explained another time).
Also, given the rest of the specs on your ridiculous system, why would they use Bluray 2.0 instead of HVD?
Since Blu-ray exists. HVD, is nothing but vapourware always has been. Blu-ray is mature tech and has it's own upgradable path to TB's. It's tech will be cheaper to produce as it's already in use. Unlike HVD, which is vapourware.
Almost everything in the OP's comment is vaporware. Cell 2.0 with 5 PPEs and 32 cores running at 7-10ghz? Vaporware. Larrabee? Essentially vaporware. Directx 12/OpenGL? Vaporware. UHDTV (4320p) in a consumer level graphics card? Vaporware. 16 gigs of XDR ram in any affordable consumer level device? Vaporware. GDDR7? Hasn't be specified yet, vaporware. Since the OP was obviously going all out with their dream system, I asked why limit themselves with crappy Bluray and go for the gold with HVD.
That's my grandma's pc
I dont know what the next ps4 is going to have but i bet that the next consoles will be so different that multie plat games would not be possible. sony and ms would love this to happen because exclusives is where the money is at. games are really going to be a way bigger factor.
It would make the most sense to me. The GPU is anybodies guess. They might as well stick to the cell processor since the developers are no familiar with it.
next chip will be the CPU an GPU on the same die (not just the same package as we are seeing now) and it will be 22nm... thats 4 years out
an APU? Like AMD's Fusion "Zacate"? Those things better get into a console for better adoption cause it eliminates the element of upgrade ability in high end PC's. Sometimes you got a budget and you get the best CPU you can and a decent GPU, then swap in a better GPU later, or vice versa.
The onboard video can usually be bypassed on gpu/cpu combos. But for a console these make a lot of sense. Upgrading isn't needed anywya. Cheaper, and they're quickly gainly performance headroom that would be good enough for a console chip.
can't wait for PS4!!! Bring it Sony!!!
Paballo, dam they are some impressive specs, but not possible. See CPU's have a problem. They cannot reach 10ghz unless frozen in time. Although Maybe Sony could find a way. That's why all cpu's are 3ghz range. That's why they are packing more of them onto a single die. I know you were messing around, it was funny btw. But a likely PS4 system is this. Cell 2.0 - 4 ppe's -4 lanes - 7 spu's per lane. RSX 2.0 - GTX 400 range. Ram 3gb split. HD 1tb http://www.gpureview.com/ If you want to know the real specs etc of any graphic card, coming or long gone look here.
The only thing I can see Sony using from Intel in the PS4 is their LightPeak technology because Sony have shown interest in LightPeak and have joined up with Intel to integrate it in Sony devices in the near future (that includes the PS4). The PS4 might even come equipped with Sony's own Transfer-Jet technology.
A console doesn't need that sort of high data transer rate anyway. My money is on Sata cables and tradition hdd's.
Intel's Light-Peak technology will be needed in the next 3-4 years so I expect the PS4 to come come equipped with Light-Peak as a standard feature, and from what I can remember Intel are actually planning to use Light-Peak in some upcoming products in 2011. By the time the PS4 comes out Light-Peak would have lowered in costs enough to be used in many devices and products in the next 3-4 years.
Honestly they are. Consoles need a very high value/performance margin that intel doesn't really offer in the high end cpu market.
If sony goes with the CELL again, Microsoft will beat it again next generation SOLELY on better multiplat titles. 3rd party developers will continue to struggle porting titles 1st deved off the PC/x360 code. Microsoft will keep BRAGGING that most multiplat games would be easier to develope, run & look better on NEXTbox. Therefore more games will spit outta the nextbox more frequently while PS4 games will be more delayed due to code & porting issues. Cell is a GREAT Powerful cpu chip but maybe that it's problem. It's TOO GREAT, the tech showed is clearly way ahead of it's time. But it's so new and different to most game coders that it's practically ALIEN tech. Sony needs to dump it for it's next console so devs could tear into it code kits and spit out titles like it's no tomorrow. They won't be doing that still using the cell. Sony already made statements that they're going MULTICORE with cpu development. and since there manly sticking with IBM. It most like IBM's new POWER7 cpu is the most likely choice. So as sony's PS4's CPU is concerned in this article. I'm betting on IBM's POWER7 multicore cpu. MY PREDICTION: CPU- IBM POWER7 multicore GPU- nVidia's 480-5?? GTX series (Kepler or Maxwell) Sys Memory- I predict 6GB total system memory. 2GB for GPU, 4GB for main sys memory.(*I'd like sony to stretch it up to 8GB) Media- Bluray, but the updated version that uses the blu-violet ultrasonic laser tech for reading 100GB multilayered bluray disc while STILL 100% BC to current bluray disc. Storage- SDD/Solid State Drive. Supports ALL non-propriety SSD brands. Premium SKU's will retail with either 420gb or 500gb.
Hmmm not sure how this is going to work now since larrabee doesn't seem to be on the cards. Seriously they only need to do a few changes to the cell. A ring bus would fix any memory bottle necks. The chip speed isn't going to get any faster. Also another great rumor is a 4 spu psp2 setup. I believe a over haul on the memory subsystem would do wonders for the ps4. It would be very similar to the upgrade of the gc to wii. More inboard ram a better cache system along with some passive things to make blu ray read write speeds a nonfactor. Solidstate drives and a heat pipesystem that hardly needs fans to run would be great also. Also the system should support sdxc drives also or at least sony's version of it. Another thing is if we do get more download content then let people share this stuff with a limited number of friends. This would increase the amount of gamers that would want to go online just to get this benifit. Another thing is I want to see a huge frame buffer and some form of pci express so autostereio round monitors can be supported. Sony already has one and it even uses a touch input. The cell is fine yet IBM needs to work closer with the gpu guys. Actualy the new power chip has a better spin on the cell idea. It's very similar to the apple advantage before they went intel. Also please don't be fanboys and spread bad info. It's hurting developers. The more you hype up a chip the more people will not buy some actualy cool games. Also here is something to think about. Apple was approached by IBM to use the cell, the i7 spanked it. On top of this no realtime workstation uses the cell. Sure 1st party made some cool games yet hardly anyone else has. There are reasons for this stuff. Games need tons of investments and on top of this gamers want movies rather than games. What is bad about the state of gamers even more of you don't want to upgrade. This is starting to look like pc gamers that became unsatisfide with the upgrades. Or has hd gaming simply overshot it's customer expectations. If so then gaming is going to go into a deep decline. Or maybe the first gen ending consoles have arrived. 3d graphics are not as easy to judge for gamers making upgrades harder to justify. This holiday will determine when next gen starts.
Thing is if Ps4 releases in 2015-2016 than those specs I posted are highly [email protected] .why should Sony use HVD when they have their own format and have invested billions into growing the install base of blu ray? especially now that its started to catch on,is the industry standard and is being adopted....why start another format war especially given that blu ray is upgradable tech and the fact that Next Gen games won't really need more than 100GB?HVD is a no go especially for the fact that Sony will have to pay royalties on it. Secondly an IBM officer who planned the Cell Road map said that by 2010 the company will make 32spu cells .Don't have a link for 32 spe cell but google it and you will definitely come out with multiple websites that speak about it. Its called the Power2X Cell 32i .Thirdly, just because DX12 has not being announced does not mean its not in the works....Larrabee situation is still up in air but like I said in psp2 comment; Nvida lost the ps4 gpu contract due to the fact that Nvida screwed Sony the way they screwed M$ and the Sony female engineer at CES said Intel bought the larrabee contract but even so if the intel thing does not work out it will proberly be Ati but not Nvida. Sony learnt the hard way with them and if rumours are to be believed it because of Nvida that ps3 won't receive another price cut in awhile and why Sony making alittle profit on every ps3 sold. They are still charging Sony a lot for every RSX made even though its 5year old tech .The XDR ram....yeah I could have over estimated that but I will tell you how I got to 16 GBs...Every Gen Sony 8X there total system ram(from ps1-ps2-ps3) but since this Gen is going to be 2X as long Sony could add 16times more ram than the ps3 had. yes its a lot now but by 2015-2016 it won't be a hell of a lot. Think of it this way.....If you told people back in 1999 to 2000 that the ps3 would have the specs it has now for its release in 2006-2007 people would not have believed you but if you look 5 years ahead from now its not hard to believe. Resolution wise it was speculated that by 2016 we would be going into Ultra or Quad HD and samsung are already testing those TV so that is an unknown but not something not possible throw out the window. Lastly @ xg-ei8ht the 7-10ghz may be a tad much. ur right man. Anything higher than 4.2ghz just conducts too much heat though 5ghz won't be a stretch when cpus and gpu will be at 16nm....anyways I was just using moores law to create those ps4 and yes my likely dream machine if Sony or M$ released it.