Valve's own Gabe Newell gave a talk at Leipzig the other day and did their share of doling out insults to both the 360 and PS3, while showering compliments on the PC.
ya why should we care what that fat guy says
What difference does it make if the guy is a little overweight. He's a human being and has the right to freedom of speech, even though his opinions might be a bit biased towards PCs.
while I am myself a little fat, I remember seeing a very funny gif animation of him eating a piece of chicken used as a spray in CS Source
 Gabe Newell not only has the right to speak but he is also an authority in the industry(maybe not to fanboys)
Gabe Newell = Anti-Console; PC Whore!
Lol, all these console only guys intimidated by PC gaming are bad mouthing one of the BEST in the business.
However, when Half Life 2 Orange box comes out for the 360 and PS3 guess who will be lining up to play one of the best games ever? The console fanboys above me!
I agree - he is PC biased, but I happen to understand EXACTLY what he means when talking up the PC compared to consoles. If PC gaming was as cheap as console gaming their would be no consoles to speak of.
Until then those of us fortunate enough to be able to afford top of the line PC gaming can smile smugly at console gaming.
So just because he doesnt understand it its crappy? I have a solution... spend some time with it instead of complaining about it. If the hardware was fully understood there wouldnt be much to improve on would there? he is complaining about sony not asking the developers what they wanted? Isnt the reason the 360 doesnt come with a hard drive because developers said it wasnt needed?
Developers perpetually think in the 'now'. sony wanted to make a console last more than 3-4 years... therefore they had to come up with something that really pushed some envelopes. Yeah its gonna take time to understand the hardware, good things take time and effort in order to show quality. The ps3 is no different.
Sony is a hardware company and the PS2 was known to be difficult to write for; it appears that this is a continuing with the PS3. Sony's installed base with the PS2 made it imperative to develop for the PS2. Clearly from Sony's previous attitude vis a vis the PS3 they expected their previous dominance to continue and that developers would just have develop for them irrespective of the difficulties. Thus the problem with third party games developers given the small installed base. Thus the massive expenditure on first party games by Sony.
Newell's statements seem to confirm my view.
In Newell's view M$ is all talk about gaming on Vista; this is probably due to the resources that M$ will devote to 360 development vs development for the PC. This is understandable given that the 360 is a closed system owned by them an obviously they want it to suceed.
Given that the 360 is a cut down PC this would make it easier to develop for from a PC developers view point. Also M$ is a software company and would look at things from a software perspective as oposed to a hardware perspective (Sony). This may also explain the "unaceptably high failure rate" of the 360 as well.
Anyways that is my two cents!!!
He makes a few valid points.
Yeah, I'd like my bubbles back please! ---------->0000000+ not00000-
Man i know its immature but i was thinking the same with the catch frase ''...remember that time I dissed consoled?'' FLAShbAck!
He is flat out saying that the hardware design isn't well thought out. Why don't you start basing things off of reality instead of your own personal bias.
The cell isn't strictly a gaming processor. It is in many other electronic devices. And none of them are gaming devices. And I can almost guarantee you will never see the cell in any type of high end gaming PC such as an Alienware. Because it was never meant to be. That is why you see it being used in imaging devices for hospital research and Folding, and also being used as a server. Once again not gaming applications.
I for one would trust someone's opinion who has been developing games on cutting edge PC technology for years and years. Which is always on high end of technology than some person who just thinks the PS3 is a good design just bc he likes it such as yourself.....
"I don't think they spent nearly enough time talking to developers when they were developing the PS3," he said.
And Newell said he believes the issues are hardware, not software ones.
"It's a hardware architectural problem. I don't think they thought through the Cell architecture. The hardware is only as good as the software it enables."
Shh, don't tell anyone that the PS3 is just a Blu-ray player. But seriously, all this talk of the cell being a b*tch to work with takes me back to my Jaguar days. Ahh, Tempest 2000.
Uh oh, 360 finally has Space Giraffe ( http://www.xbox.com/en-US/g... I was hoping this would be delayed until the Falcons landed. What to do? I gotta go!
judging from killzone,metal gear, gran turismo,uncharted,haze,final fantasy,ratchet and clank, and COD4; i'd say that hardware is doing a pretty good job.
Sony believed that they were at the top of the world and their position was natural and destined to continue. In previous iterations of the Playstation they built it and the developers came; this was doubly so when we talk about the PS2 with the 100 million plus installed base. Thus the developer had to work with what was provided. Ultimately a lot of developers learned to develop great games for that machine as millions of satisfied gamers can attest to.
However now the install base is very small compared to the competition and there is less incentive for developers to put the extra effort and more important the resources into developing for PS3 b/c the return is not presently there. It all comes down to the install base and the the return; sure the developers want the PS3 market of 4 milion or so but they are not going to spend the same resources on that market as they will on the 12 million console market of the 360. It all comes down to the install base. Sony's hubris has hurt them; but hard lessons are often lasting ones; PS4 will be very interesting.
to be the poster child of PC gaming.. He is part of VALVE of course he is going to downplay and smack talk his competition.. He is just pissed that games sell more on consoles than the PC.. He makes some good points, but I hunch over a PC all day, I'm not doing it for my gaming and just look at all the recent news about Bioshock on the PC with driver issues, widescreen issues, DRM issues.. PC gaming is a complete pain in the ass..
It was Game Informer, I believe, where he first down talked PS3 and Vista...now he's still saying the same thing... how many times does he have to say it...console gaming / development, regardless of the architecture, is here to stay...developers have to learn the ins and outs of any platform they work on...that's never going to change...
judging by his weight he should be looking forward to Wii fit.
So we are listening to:
A former Microsoft person,
who has spent his entire career working on desktop x86 computers,
cry about porting his old directx code to modern console hardware,
for games that the console market doesn't give a damn about.
Gabe: "I spent the last ten years completely ignoring moder graphics hardware design and now I'm going to go cry about it in public. Waaaaa!!!"
Sucks to be you Jabba.
"PC developers also work with the most advanced GPUs"
LOL, what an idiot...
Gotta love the stupid little PC gamers who don't have a Fing clue about graphics hardware outside of the crappy and archaic 'desktop pc GPU'
Teh GPU is what does teh graphics! Right dimwit?
You do realize that these PC developers also work with the most advanced GPUs on the market. All of their software has to be compatible with all the newest Graphics cards on the market. From both Nvidia and ATI.
And your comment makes you look like an uneducated toddler bc a highly anticipated game for PS3 is Unreal Tournament 3 which is also developed by a long time PC only game producer, Epic.
Not to mention all games are made on PC first. And then put on their respective dev kits. Including PS3 games.
He is one of the greatest developers in the world. Him, carmack, miyamoto, and sid meier is what I inspire to be.
In that case i suggest you head to the nearest McDonalds right now!
nice joke bubbles in the way.
who gives a sh*t what he thinks when developers are making games like Killzone 2, Gt5, and MGS4. They dont seem to be having any problems with hardware and yet those games are well above the capabilities of Pcs and the 360. Proves that he's lazy and deosnt want to put the time in to fully understand the hardware or he's chatting sh*t.
Your comment only goes to show you know nothing about technology. The 360 and PS3 are both outdated by PC standards. The technology in the PC industry advances at a fast rate. Most graphics cards are outdated in a mere matter of a few months.
Please don't talk about things you don't understand. You only insult yourself.
the absolute highest of the high-end computers will be outdated in months. the pc is constantly changing piece of equipment. so your point about the 360 and ps3 is meaningless.(like most of your other posts.)
...but I wanna see him fall down stairs and jigggle :(
He rates the Mc Rib a 10.
Big mac an 8
Chicken Nuggets, there isnt enough of them in one box. Maybe thats why they thought of the orange box, he just likes boxes.
Seriously, Hes a moaner, always has been.
I know he was correct when he stated about the geforce fx a few years back, as in pixel shader 2.0 games, was no match for the radeon 9700pro.
But he was very lazy in regards to the fact, he didnt use a fall back, and a modder, changed the code, to enable a fall back dx8.1 which ran fast on the fx hardware to enable reflections if memory serves me correcly, with hardly any graphical difference.
So hes right and wrong. But please don't give him a cookie.
wow...does that man eat babies??
I'm convinced Gabe was the inspiration for Matt and Trey's WOW character on South Park that was killing off everyone. Lmao.
Anyone who has seen that episode knows what I'm talking about.
I didnt even think of that but now that you say that, it makes sense. LOL....ahhhh, thats too funny. I love their games but i cant stand that idiot, even if he does know what he's talking about...
PC gamers and advocates really piss me off for the most part. They talk smack about consoles all day long talking about their shortcomings when in reality, these guys are just resentful of all of the sales consoles and their software produce so many more times over PC.
P.S. This guy really needs to start drinking fat free water. ; )
Gabe needs to hit the gym!
"How many other gaming rigs do you see with a split memory architecture??"
EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM. E-V-E-R-Y single one. It's the reason why you purchase CPU RAM, and purchase a 128, 256, 512, or higher GPU. Those three numbers I listed are RAM friend...so every PC is made with split RAM architecture, it manages bandwidth better.
I won't argue that Newell is brilliant at what he does, that's foolish. The fact is, this about the equivalent of asking an aerospace engineer their opinion on automobiles. Surely with an engineering background as such he may be able to offer insight and seemingly valid opinions, but the fact that he's not an expert in the exact field should make a little light go off in your head that you might need a couple more sources.
Simply put, it makes more sense to consider the statements and accounts of those that specialize in console development as opposed to those in the PC field. Sure they're similar, but not the same, especially with the radically different architecture and philosophy proposed by the PS3. The people that say 'look at KZ2, GT5, Uncharted, etc' are absolutely valid in their point, because it's difficult to make a case against a machine that can handle games like these. Say it's inefficient all you want, but the proof really is in the pudding, and there are no signs of the machine hitting a plateau anytime soon.
As far as the hardware only being as good as the software enables, I believe that there's a problem with that mentality, that devs and software engineers should largely dictate what should come from the HW. It's silly to me that we've got GPUs, monitors, and several other components that are "Vista capable, DX10 compliant" when it's the HARDWARE that should be setting the benchmarks, not the software. People have been designing software according to what's achievable on the hardware for decades, so when the Hell did the paradigm shift? I believe in developer/engineer input, correspondence and communication is a must, but there's a point at which you need to let the experts and specialists do their job, and I don't like the idea that we may be moving away from that.
I commend STI for going against the grain with the Cell. There were many complaints in the beginning but many people are utilizing it well and yielding some incredible results, all because they decided to try something revolutionary, rather than stick to the evolutionary path.
In short, I think the man is entitled to his opinion, but he should wait a while, try the machine himself, and actually observe the results that we're all already seeing so short into it's life. I bet a dime to a dollar that there won't be one legitimate complaint from a developer by 2009, because I think we'll see some outstanding things come from the machine up to then, and of course afterwards.
So Im going to do my best to remain civil unlike when I'm forced to respond to those other sony kids who simply talk shiii out of their @ss.
Im not ignoring the fact that Gabe is a PC dev first which is partly why he isnt crazy about micro or sony, but he does make valid points about them both. Yes hardware always drives the software as you said but your hold post seems very quick to brush off a huge point that Gabe Newell suggested, which is that sony did NOT make their GAMNING console developer friendly which is a criticism thats been mentioned or at least been alluded to by many devs, hell even some comments from sony devs themselves have added to that perception of ps3 being difficult to dev for atm,
so I wonder why you say Bloodmask post is just what he "believes or trust what support your(his) obvious slant", when really his response to Executive was appropriate= that this isn't just about him saying its "crappy" because he doesnt understand it, complexity does not make something better or superior, again complexity does not make something better or superior= ha ha I read that somewhere= is it true? in fact it seems you and Executive over simplify Gabe's criticism, because from my understanding reading his comments he said that sony didn't do a good job in designing the architechture with dev's in mind= did NOT make it efficient for the game developers= Obviously that doesnt mean that great next gen games can't be made on the ps3 and Im sure there will be examples of this but if its going to mean alot more dev time and more money just to get equally or slightly better results compared to the competition then naturally that sacrifice is going to fustrate the devs.= I understand sony wanted to push the tech in the ps3, and they can design the console any way they like but I'm sure sony could have designed the ps3 to push the limits with the cell AND WORKED WITH THE DEVS to make ps3 more dev friendly.= I'm no dev, I just learn by what I read and every console in the past has had a learning curve, over the lifecycle devs always get better and better with the console but damm even you say you bet by 2009 there won't be any complaints= WOW 2009?, ha ha lets assume you are correct, dont you at least think sony could have done a better job to push the tech while also shortening the learning curve just a bit for the devs and included better tools from the begining?= It shouldnt take that long before devs quit complaining about the problems with ps3 architechture.
this guy should be "the king" in those burger king commercials. man, he is beyond "a little overweight". he's a fat slob. seriously, why does he nag about the ps3 the way he does, and put games out for it? if i hated something as much as he does, i wouldn't put games out for it.
He never said they weren't or couldn't, only that it was more difficult. gCM
"Thats why Core 2 architecture is unbelievably fast running existing code."
We should all go back to single core processors to facilitate your work and make you rich. Yes, lets do that.
What a fat c**t.
Not everyone can afford $3000 PC's and sit at them 20 hours a day eating oreo's.
He`s obviously a good developer so i respect his opinion, but i`ll agree with Genki. PC-developers generally don`t like the PS3, because it`s different to what they usually work with. The 360 is more similar, so i think that`s why more PC developers tend to like it better, it`s also easier to port from PC to 360, than for PS3.
The PS3 can make great games as others above me have pointed out, so it`s nothing wrong with the hardware if you look past that it`s more difficult to work with. It`s just going to take effort from the developers and Sony needs to share all the tricks they have in their first part tools to help them out. I remember Carmack said the same thing, yet he showed Rage running equally good on all three platforms and seemed more positive for the PS3.
Valved hasn`t made a lot of console games either, so i think they need more experience with consoles overall. They are now making Half Life 2 the orange box with EA in a collaborative effort, so i`m not sure how that will turn out given EA`s recent releases. Hope Valve gives PS3 a chance though, i think they could get great results from it, since they are great developers.
Gabe/Peter makes a few good points but his view is very one sided. If it is so easy to program for PCs how come HL2 EP1 was one big crash frenzy (check out the valve forums). I am a big fan of PC games but at least with a console the hardware/firmware/software is consistant and you are expected to have a perfect product upon release. PC's are all over the place with compatibility issues and odd setups so post release you are using your customer base as beta testers (Windows ME is the perfect example). I speak as a beta tester that has seen more than one game released on the PC with well known flaws unresolved.
I like Gabe, a lot of his work has been good work but he needs to widen his horizons and reduce his waistline. There is a Giant Chicken out there with his name on it. There is also diabeties and heart disease if he aint careful.
...because in a few more years, his fat-ass will be pushin' up daisies. :o
no doubt that pcs are well in advance of consoles but they never take advantage of their specs. The best i have seen on pc cant come close to gran turismo 5 on ps3. Maybe if they optimized everything for the very top end of pc market we would see results but, ps3 and 360 IMO are leaving pcs behind at the moment. Too many setups to cater for and trying to run on the lowest spec possible.
That said, hl series is an all time classic and Gabe surely has to command respect in the gaming world.
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