Play Mag: As Gap makes an about turn on its new logo, Play considers if fans have too much say when games want to make a change.
yeah. we're buying the games so.
I'm quite sure Advertisement sells more games than what fans buy.
They DO get the final say. They either buy your game or not.
Thankyou for that common sense comment, too many sheep buy every piece of trash that comes out based on a pre-rendered trailer etc... People need to vote with their wallets. The problem is that the 12 year old's on here don't have to pay for the games...their parents do, so they have no idea about 'value'. Last gen: 20hr campaign, with split screen, online MP and offline MP with bots ( and games that didn't need patches ) This gen: >8hr campaign, online only MP ( possibly requiring an online voucher ) 10+ DLC packs per game, broken games at launch... Thanks console gamers.
I dont think so. Resistance 2 followed some advice from the community and I think I ended up longing for the Resistance 1 style again. Sometimes us fans don't even know whats best for us :P
I agree completely. I think fans really do not know what they want. Socom fans screwed the game up with Socom 3 (yes it was our fault dont pretend it wasnt) And now everyone longs for the days of Socom 2. Sometimes it is better to let developers do their thing. I wish they wouldnt announce a game until a few months before release.
"The customer is always right. Always" If your making a new IP, sure go ahead blow your brains out. But when theres a game that has a legacy, for example "DMC" Where the fans are already attached to the characters, you cant just change it around and what not cause it wont feel right for those who are buying it.
Well I say do not knock it until you try it. Everyone hated Raiden in MGS2 but now we love him. I thought he was cool in MGS2 but most people didnt. Now yes, the new Dante looks terrible, but hell, Ill give it a shot if the gameplay holds up.
Yes; because I'm selfish.
The majority of fans would ruin the game if they were given creative control. Look what happened to infamous, first then want new cole, the get new cole, they want old cole back, they don't know what they want. Sure fans can have a lot of good ideas but they lack the focus and vision that the pros usually have.
no one ever asked for a "new" cole. Everyone already thought Cole was a perfect character, but then when they flipped him around completely, 99.9% of the fans hated it. Soon enough, old cole is back :)
Why do you like Kekkaishi? am I the only one not able to get into that show?
But not all the time.
Fans generally don't know shit, I'll leave it up to the creators. What I'd love to see would render a game unplayable much like most ideas from diehard fans of something.
Fans don't make games, developers do. If we asked Christopher Nolan to add a hot nude sex scene in Inception, would it be benefitial? Hell to the no. So games shouldnt be any different. Fans are whiny complaining little dipshits imo. Concerning DmC, ill buy any game Ninja Theory makes, no matter what changes.
No youre wrong, Inception 2 comes out, starring Justin Beiber as Cob. Thats the situation not the hot nude scene. The developers ideas go this far, but the game is being played and bought by the fans. Of course the fans arent always right, but the same goes for the devs. As in Ninja Theory case. Enjoy DmC I guess
It's not that fans should always get last say. It's just that developers shouldn't try chaning stuff (characters) to appeal to the mass market, thus screwing the existing fanbase. F**k you capcom and ninja theory. bastards killed dante :(
I understand that, and I hate sellouts just as much as the next guy, but, what if these fans you are catering to are a very tiny group? and what if the decisions they want you to make stop you from appealing to a much wider audience? Aren't fans then hurting the very product/franchise that they love? not to mention, those situations where the fans actually make the product worse(though that could also happen by trying to please non-fans) one things for sure, the author poses a difficult question to answer
In some aspects, they should have "a say". If these publishers, creators etc. Care so much about money, then some aspects, of course, you'd want some community input. Yeah, I would have to say, in some sense they deserve a say. However, nothing too drastic I suppose.
Fans will always whine about everything. but that Gap logo was really awful sometimes you just got to whine while in other situations such as New Cole, just shut up please.
well first time did cole everyone hated his look his redesigned was hated more so they are like WTF fans theres no pleasing you. new dante sucks
Yes! to a certain degree. It's only logical to assume that the devs know much more than we do BUT! the consumer has the right to express their feelings towards the product they are contemplating on buying, no? Edit: shout out to Insomniac Games for listening to the community feedback for R3. In the end it makes everybody happy.
In saying this though it is important for devs to listen to constructive feedback from fans. Not unjustified complaints or stupid ideas.
Constructive Criticism and different ideas from the fanbase ARE good indeed, but as a developer, you should just take them in account and see how to include them on the final game. But also, just saying "fuk u fanz lol" won't help. At all. It'll just make someone wish to grab a gun and shoot you in the head for being an asshole. In other words, just find a way on how to balance both. How to implement your fans wishes on your own idea (or well, the studio's idea) of a game.
If devs see than an idea which would add value and would improve the game then there is no reason why they shouldn't take it on board. However they should keep everything coherent otherwise it will be a mess of a game with no real direction or vision which is bad for everyone. It was the same case with R2. Alot of people complained about Hale being mute and wanted the narrator gone which is one of the reason why R1 was unique with it's desperate atmoshpere.
Shit I never said anything online about R1 but damn did I find R2 so much better than R1. For my first PS3 game R1 was pretty underwhelming. Didn't care much for the narrator either. Though R3 seems to be a good mix of both so it should please everyone
3.7 million copies of R1 was sold. It already built up a fanbase that mostly love it as it was. It was a unique take on late 40's WW2 like setting Europe with an alien horror twist. I spent so much time playing around with the weapons i accumulated that i had really good fun doing so. I don't remember any other FPS with more fun weapons. The narrator put the focus more on the overall story rather than on Hale which is what i like in R1.
Not all the time. I agree with the fan uproar about Cole in Infamous. You cannot change a look of a main character after ONE bloody game, it just makes no sense. Just make him a different person. But in some cases, fans can f things up. I remember 'fans' asking for Resistance 2 to be more like other modern shooters when it was being made. There were actually people who wanted to take out that brilliant weapon wheel in the first game to make it more 'realistic' and they also wanted Hale to talk a lot more and to get rid of the narration.. Fools... I was at the PS Beta rooms in Birmingham where they were letting people give feedback to the developers about Killzone 3. I heard a lot of kids say "They should make it play and feel like COD" I wanted to smack a lot of people that day!
Better One game than 4(Devil May Cry). I honestly didn't mind Cole being changed. Its not like I grew anykind of connection to that character, the first game wasn't even that great(second one looks great). People love to bitch tho. I do understand the DMC character being changed tho. But Infamous...sorry but no. Not that big of a deal.
I want to smack those kids as well. I had no problems adjusting to KZ2 controls. In fact i love it to bits. However, it sucks for us as we are a minority and i believe that the majority should rule. Hence i am not up an arms about the change in KZ3 controls. I think there is an overwhelming support for the change and it sucks but that's reality. Old gamers like us are a dying breed that apperciate variety and would adapt to new games instead of expecting cookie cutter games over and over with MP as must. Funny you mentioned Resistance. I completely hated it when they announced the removal of the narrator and the weapon wheel. It really changed Rsistance as a franchise. I think those that complained really are MP additics that really didn't care much about the SP to begin with. The narrator in R1 is great in that she painted a really bleak picture of events and was able to keep the story coherent. Also i really loved Hale being mysterious rather than the chater box he became in R2. Most of the time in R2 i was fighting for my life and i was not paying attention to the story unfolding in the comms. It was stupid. I really do hope they bring back the narrator in R3. @Dice. Infamous has a following. Infamous is popular with the fans that bought it because of its unique comic book style art work and dark and mature themes. The last thing fans expect to see in Infamous is a super model cole because that's not Cole at all. Cole is not a tween/justin bieber. Cole is a early 30's bike courrier.
look what happened to cole sucker punch changed cole to some twilight looking emo dude which nobody asked for and the fans raged - they changed cole back everyone's happy now capcom(actually ninja theory) changed dante to some twilight looking emo dude which nobody asked for and the fans raged - they didn't change dante back and the fans are still raging. see the difference?
"they changed cole back everyone's happy now " ...not quite
I kinda agree I never really liked old cole either, though I can see why they should keep it consistent. IMO though the first cole they showed for Infamous 2 should be a skin or something for the game
but this is why I'm starting to sway towards the developers side. I mean, there's never going to be a point where everyone is satisfied.(Cole being a perfect example) I simply think creators have forgotten that you simply cannot please everyone(and you never will).
Sometimes, but a lot of times the fans don't know the game, or game mechanics well enough to want changes, for example a recent change in a game I play online, they implimented a feature similar to one scripts/autos have, which reduces lag immensely, somewhat levels the playing field for cheaters and people who don't cheat, and yet people complained, against their own previous opinions about such a thing. Of course the hoards complaining could be a vocal minority, but I haven't seen anyone in my guild in the game complain about it so far. In fact we rejoiced they added something useful besides pictures of ships, new languages when pretty much the only languages that play it are english, dutch, and portugese, and of course, the one I find the most useless, fanfiction for a game thats pretty much solely a PVP experience and has no plot.
No because most fans are idiots and will support developers and companies regardless of what they've done to people. RROD prime example. And the people bitching about this game will probably turn around and buy it when it comes out after the hate dies down. I won't, but thats because I'm not an idiot like most of the people that have been bitching Lol. Also, after seeing the way most of these fans reacted I would have to say that I would hardly care about anything they had to say. Just being honest lol. With immature comments like "GAY EMO GAY DIE DIE" lol retards.
what is the source material without the fans?
When it comes to looks (and not gameplay) fans can change things quit a bit, and their vote should count. If you have a trademark character (looks, dress code, personality) like Dante who's been easily recognizable (read: fan-favorite) by the community, then the choice to go against everything those same people feel/like/think is like stabbing yourself with a knife. I share the idea of the developers, trying to re-create (re-imagine) the look and style of Dante, but doing so without even considering the opinions of the people who "worshiped" him to the stature he currently has, is utter ignorance and total egoism. On the other hand, many fans (gamers) are not game designers so, their suggestions (QQ) to the developers for taking a new direction in terms of mechanics / pacing / story-structuring is something they shouldn't take for granted. So to sum things up, the look ( visual appearance) of a main character can be easily judged by those who will buy the product that same character is a part off due to their own personal preferences, ergo if you want good sales, you will try to abide as much to their wish as possible. When it comes to the game itself however, there are many things gamers can point but not change, since technical knowledge (or how games are made, not played) is not their job. It is the job of the developers.
Probably not always the final say, but definitely taken into consideration.
If game developers want to create *their* game and have total artistic freedom. Go right ahead. But dont expect to charge for it, remember its not about the money. Its about the idea and how it works, it doesnt matter if people play it or not, its your masterpeice. Except thats not how it ever is, they charge 60 dollars for "their idea" and expect the consumer to eat it right up even if no one gives a fuck about it. Fans input does matter, and developers should take it into account. The opposite is true as well and devs should put what they want in a game to an extent. So what happens when a dev has total control and makes the games the way THEY WANT IT? Nobody buy its and nobody cares? They only have themselves to blame.
Fans Yes, but Fanboys NO
Everyone simply never vote.Ever A size 9 shoe can indeed fit a size 10 foot.
hmm, I wanna say that unless sequels were REALLY mapped out ahead of time (a la star wars IV-VI or the lord of the rings), then changes are ok as far as continuity goes, since sequels that WEREN'T carefully planned from the beginning are already going to feel different. in that case, why not go with what the majority of your fans are requesting (if you have any faith in their ability to form coherent thoughts, that is)? and yet I suppose there is the possible problem of a 'vocal minority' winning out as Raypture mentioned...
well maybe my movies comparison isn't fair since games are closely linked with rapidly evolving tech and therefore will always have a significant amount of variation between titles. but what I'm saying is if any sequel was never fully conceived in devs' minds while constructing the orig it's based on, then to some degree it's already a bit of a cash-in; and I'd rather at least have a little variety than a straight clone in that situation.
on one hand, we are the ones who have to buy these products. but on the other, THEY are the experts on creating great games, not us. Infact, I always hate when a fan thinks they can do better than the creator(s). Yet when asked how they'd improve the product, their ideas are either amateurish or nonsensical at best. but, developers can make bad decisions to, I guess. So I'm really not sure who should have last word.
Of course we get the final say. Dev might put in tons of work, say they do in tons of interviews, but if they don't deliver we wont buy. Like I said before, Sucker Punch could have gotten away with Cole new character design, they actually had a sensible behind the scenes reason to do it, but Ninja Theory, who haven't really delivered a DMC-level game, are coming in making radical changes to a well known franchise. They don't deliver, when they haven't shown that they can, then the people who are complaining now aren't going to buy the finished product. And more than likely they'll be blaming the fans for being too rigid in our ways.
what if the developer's decision actually makes the product better/more popular? Would fans still not buy? Also, wouldn't those fans be replaced by new ones?
But what has ninja Theory really shown aside from a habit of liking grunge/grime themes and what could arguably be called on-rails gameplay? Things might get better down the line when they start showing gameplay, but my immediate reaction is that they're only going to take DMC into their design comfort zone.
I wasn't necessarily referring to Ninja Theory or DMC.(I actually don't care for NT or the changes they've made to the franchise either.) My scenario was more hypothetical than anything.
I've seen cases where either the fans are right and the developer doesn't know what they're doing or the developer makes a blockbuster game in spite of their fans' bickering.
. . . no. Devs make what they want. We buy what we want. We may influence what they do in many ways, but ultimately the devs are the ones who decide what will be in their games and no amount of complaining by us will change that.'Nuff said.
real fans = paying customers They shouldn't always get the last say, but listen to what they want to buy if you want to make money.
Infamous - Not really, old cole looked generic. DMC - They need to listen to somebody other than NT, they have proven to know absolutely dick about what they speak.
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