Gearbox has called on Microsoft and Valve to fix the incompatibility between titles purchased via Games For Windows and Steam.
MS just needs to leave alone pc gaming all together
really just look
Microsoft can make GFWL work if they invest a bunch of cash. They just dont want to. I would not be complaining if more of their titles hit PC if GFWL had the sort of investment xbox live has and microsoft treated Pc as an equal rather than second rate to their console. Of course Xbox live has a solid gold revenue stream and GFWL does not, but that can be fixed. Steam shows that other streams work. Microsoft SHOULD treat PC gamers better, because the likes of xbox only exists thanks to the core of their business, PC software. It shouldnt be Pc gamers getting short changed by microsoft, PC gamers should be the ones microsoft cuddle up to. Release games at the same time as they hit 360, make sure the developer does better than a slap dash port. Make sure they utilise the ridiculous performance advantage PC holds. More games for windows = more copies of windows sold in the long run. They already have this huge advantage over steam in that its their software that is running most home computers- integration should be an absolute piece of piss! They have the power to standardise and unify a gaming platform on windows. Its mind boggling how crap a job they have done with regards gaming on their biggest money spinner.
I don't know what it is with MS but they sure don't like anything that actually benefits the consumer. Valve likes to give away free DLC and MS won't have anything to do with that.
@Genesis5; Microsoft does think about the customers, a lot, actually. They just aren't going to give stuff away for free because quite honestly, that will end up hurting your business.
@Adrela Its not about giving away stuff for free. It's about them gouging consumers. Nobody expects MS to give them a high five and a free copy of Halo Reach. However, if a developer releases FREE add-ons, MS sees that as a wasted potential to nickel and dime consumers. It's bad business, especially when the DEVELOPER AND PUBLISHER wishes for their content to be free. And no, that doesn't "hurt" your business. It's more costly to upset customers, especially for something as silly and cheap as a free DLC pack. Some of the most successful companies in the world have some of the highest customer satisfaction ratings. Thats how you build a faithful customer base, who become brand loyal. MS uses monopolies to their advantage, and pisses off consumers knowing they have no alternative. They increased the price of Live because they know users can do nothing about it. They already have established accounts on Live, with all their friends, saves, achievements, etc. And their only option to play online is to pay the extra 10 dollars. They charge for DLC on Live that Valve releases for free simply because 360 gamers have no other possible way of obtaining the content. So they either pay the price or don't get the content, and they're stuck with the 360 since they've already invested their time and money into it.
Since when? I bought GTA4 off of Steam when it was like 7 dollars or something and it is a GFWL game. It works with out a hitch through Steam and I can sign in to GFWL using my XBOX gamertag and even chat with my friends on the XBOX while I am in GTA 4 on the PC. If that game can do it, what is the point of this article?
Yup. It's Microsoft that's hurting the PC industry. Steam is helping it in every way. Valve is fine. Let Microsoft get their dirty $$$-grubbing BS out of here. Nobody on PC cares about their Totalitarian Games for Windows Live Nazi crap. Besides they're too hypocritical to care about PC gaming anyway. I remember a few weeks ago Microsoft said they wanted to do more to get back into the PC scene bla bla, and guess what they took Alan Wake away from us and have yet to put it back on PC. Screw them.
ARRGGG rant RAGE! cool it, there. They're only games. Just because they interest you doesn't mean you can be a mean bastard about it. Does Bob Ross scream at paint?
I can't be mean towards a corporation? What?
@kaveti I'm pretty sure Microsoft's feelings won't hurt too bad. Do you honestly think he shouldn't be allowed to be critical of a major games publisher on N4G?
If MS were to ditch Games For Windows then Steam would have a monopoly and that's not good for gaming at all. All these gaming platforms like PS3, Wii, PC, 360, Mobile and even Mac are good for us all because they keeps the prices down. Unless you realy want $100 yearly services and $120 games.
Steam already basically has a monopoly, and yet it's free and has better deals than any console. So what were you saying again?
What does Games for Windows Live offer anyway????? BUG FAT NOTHING!!! Steam FTW
Microsoft isn't even a contender in the digital PC games market. There's like 30-50 games available on GFWL, compared to the ~1000 on Steam. Then there's D2D and GG which have a great selection too. I don't know why a developer would even consider using GFWL over Steam.
when microsoft gave up for a while , steam was there alone . We have yet to see any benefits from their return and concurrence with GFWL
I'm not defending GFWL over Steam don't get me wrong. I'm defending choice for the consumer and low prices. Steam is much better IMO but if they did have a monopoly you all know the prices would go up. They could charge what ever they wanted much like Blockbuster did for years before Netflix came along. Blockbuster had a hold on movie rentals for so long they were charging $9.99 for a one night rental in my area before they went bust. I do not and assume you all don't want this to happen to gaming, the prices are high enough already. You all have a good point, I'm just watching out for my dollar. Just saying I agree with all of you to a point. Bubbles for everyone. @Megaton "Valve's been the leader for years and they consistently give better deals than any other competitor" Thats because ther is a competitor to keep those prices low. You're not doing a good job of convincing me.
Oh yeah XRider, that's been Valve's plan all along. Gabe's just waiting for GFWL to disappear then BAM! 3x price increase because they'll have a monopoly. Back here in reality, Valve's been the leader for years and they consistently give better deals than any other competitor (if you can honestly say they have one) on the market. They're the far-and-away leader in quality, bargain prices, and selection. GFWL is a sad joke, and zero competition to Valve and Steam. Small timers like GOG are probably a bigger competitor than GFWL. At least GOG offers a quality service with their small selection of old games. Also, Impulse. @your edit: Missed the bit in parenthesis, did we? I'd like to know who exactly is going up against Steam with enough success to "force" Valve into making these deals. There are competitors, but not really. They don't even compare. GFWL is probably at the very bottom of that list anyway.
Why do you people ask like GFW is any kind of threat or competition to Steam? Steam's biggest competitor is Direct2Drive, then Impulse, then Games For Windows Live. If Microsoft's digital PC game store completely disappeared, it wouldn't even make a ripple in vast digital distribution ocean.
there's Impulse, D2D, Gamersgate, GOG, Battle.net for Blizzard GFWL is insignificant compared to all competition
Give it up XRider their all PS3 fanboys and G4WL is MS... so there is your answer. If was PSN vs Steam they would all be screaming Steam sucks.
PSN vs Steam? That's odd. PSN is not trying to be a Steam competitor. There is no comparison to make. G4WL, however, is in *direct* competition with Steam. This should be pretty obvious, I think.
whoever is disagreeing is a moron . Microsoft gave up pc gaming and didnt hide it . It was steam and like minded services that revived the industry and even made MS going back to it .
I know how to fix it- Get rid of GFWL and just use STEAM. Problem solved! :)
Word. GFWL: lol Steam integration into retail games sucks just as much as GFWL though. No retail game should come with malware.
Steam is the greatest form of DRM out today. non intrusive, a lot of great features, and game sales. why do you hate Steam so much?
Steve's argument makes no sense what so ever. name a game where you cant play together no matter if you buy it from Steam, retail or GFW? oh that's right none. im sure this is a preemptive strike for DNF to be p2p and not dedicated server based for MP. just watch....
That's true. When I brought warhammer dawn of war. I had to register it to my GFWL account and sign in under my live account. Yet when I get updates for it I get it throught steam.
I done see where they are coming from, I have played with people on other games that don't have a Steam version For example: I had Steam version, One guy have GfWL Version and other guy had Retail version All versions had Games for Windows Live, the only difference was distribution. The big problems with Games for Windows Live for gamers is that for one its BUGGY (personally never had problems but that is what people say), but the biggest problem for me is Games for Windows Live availability. You can purchase a Games for Windows live game but if that country is not support by Microsoft you can't play online, you can use programs like Tuggle and Hamatchi but only if the game supports LAN or Dedicated Servers
People seem to forget that Steam is a digital store and GFW/GFWL is a brand, although the two services are beginning to blur the line by trending into the others territory. I've never had a problem with GFWL or Steam, none had ever felt like hassles asides from the DRM issues with Steam and NAT on Live.
I am NOT ragging on MS. But I have had a lot of trouble with GFWL in games like Red Faction, Batman, and recently Dead Rising 2. I get it fixed in the end and everything runs fine after that. But I have NEVER had trouble with STEAM. NEVER. Everything just works like it should with STEAM and I have been a steam user since you could pre-order HL2.
Two Dawn of War 2 games used both Steamworks AND GFWL, the next expansion (Retribution) will only use Steamworks, I think it is pretty evident on which system is superior.
Well I can solve this problem in a second. All Gearbox needs to do is use the service that has the most consumers. Let's see steam has around 25 million customers and GFWL has about erm well 10 I think (yes that is sarcasm). At the end of the day you don't need to do a retail version of your game, a gfwl version of your game and a steam version of your game. Just PICK ONE, but make sure it is the right one or you will find consumers won't have any interest in your product.
I have had no problems with that game other than adding mods to make the graphics look better. I can sign in to GFWL after launching it from steam. I can access the Steam community while in the game, and Steam updates the game automatically. I don't see what the problem is. If they use the same formula as GTA 4 did on PC, I don't understand what the problem would be. Best of both worlds.
This "divide" is actually what is referred to in other industries as "competition" Gearbox. It forces companies to innovate and keeps prices down. Consumers like it. If Microsoft wants to be taken seriously in the PC gaming industry they need to work at it just like everybody else. Stop being pushed around by Microsoft and listen to the people who are actually buying your products, Gearbox.
Thank GOD that Fallout New Vegas is NOT a GfWL like Fallout 3 :) Steam RULES !!
Apologies but what's the difference? Is it the DRM that each distribution service comes with or something else? Honestly I don't know.
Steam is awesome, GFWL is not.
i'm pretty sure GFWL has some 15x install limit then you have to call to reset probably won't reach it but it could be an inconvienance Plus I don't like GFWL management.
Microsoft might as well drop GFWL because it's already so far behind Steam and is responsible for the market fragmentation. Steam has been around since late 2003, and at the time Microsoft had absolutely no interest in a digital distribution platform. The PC would be better off without Live.
GFWL is not a digital distribution platform, it's a framework for developers. to use with their games You're thinking of GFWLM.
Fine, compared to Steamworks, GFWL is lacking severely.
Do you want to give any examples? I haven't looked into Steamworks much but with GFWL Microsoft has some great API's and documentation that are publicly available. Anyone who wants to program a game around them pretty much can. I tried my hand at programming games for a while using XNA, the MSDN resource was very helpful. I don't know if Steamworks has something like that as well for developers so I can't say.
From a consumer standpoint, Steamworks has a better set of features, and is supported by more games.
What kind of features? You really have to give examples, the only point that seems valid from my uses of the two is the availability of games.
On Borderlands you used GameSpy technology, which has shittier netcode than GFWL and certainly Steam. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house
^ but even then even while Steam had set the DD path down. M$ decided they were going to charge pc gamers for GFW.... it was only after pc gamers glanced over for a second, laughed, and went back to gaming over steam that M$ decided it was going to be free.
Im new to games for windows and really like it have gears 1 and batman , decided to get all gfw , steam is great but the updates are a bitch play gears or batman smashes consoles.
why cant MS just keep making PC office software.... and windows wish it would just leave the gaming industry alone
To MexicanAppleThief yah, both are DRM but Steam also offers a lot more such automatic patching etc. The main problem I see in a PC game with GfWL is that if you are in a country without the support for this thing you can't play online or win achivements. But still Microsoft sells their PC games with GfWL preaty much in all countries in the world with not even a good discount on the price since only 26 countries that have support for this stupid GfWL system. On the other hand Steam works in any place in the world. lets say you get a Fallout NV on Steam on your laptop .This game you can play at ANY place in the world and does not matter your IP Adress. A game such Fallout3 you could play it well in USA but it you go in a vacation to a contry without the support for GfWL you can't play your game. Err, can't win achivements or play online.
Thanks for replying. I guess I won't be downloading anything GFWL anytime soon. Bubbles.
What the hell is this guy talking about? There's no divide in PC gaming. You can choose to buy the games from different services, but when you play online, you all play in the same place. If you buy a game on Steam, that uses Games For Windows Live (let's use GTA IV as an example), you launch the game on Steam, then it signs you into Live, and you play with other people on Live, regardless of where they bought it. Besides that, Games for Windows just needs to die already. It offers absolutely nothing that Steam doesn't already have/have first. I don't know a single PC gamer that likes GFWL. Not one. PC gaming would be better off without it. Microsoft just needs to kill it off and go with Steam, but we all know that won't happen.
I would take Steam a thousand times over Games for Windows Live But I don't mind it and it does to my gamerscore ;P
screw MS, no Gears 2, Halo 3, Reach pc version.
Since Gears 1 and Halo 2 sold so well on PC...
No one bought Halo 2 because they released it 3 years after the fact, it looked like shit, and required Windows Vista back when it was a barely usable piece of crap. Not sure why Gears did so bad though. It was a good port. Ran well, looked good, played pretty good, had a good amount of additional content, but I guess it just didn't appeal to PC gamers. If think if they did a proper port of Halo: Reach it would do pretty well. I'd buy it.
I would love Reach on the PC. The Forging community is already awesome. Imagine the modders getting their hands on Forge. The possibilities are crazy. I have already downloaded like 30-40 maps off of Bungie's recommended files and nearly everything I have downloaded is awesome. There are remakes of Goldeneye levels, Gears levels, COD, Sonic, Mario, Halo 1 and 2 levels, it really is quite ridiculous the amount of content already available. I would love to see what the modders could come up with on the PC side of things.
Microsoft is coming back to PC Fable 3, Age of Empires Online, Flight and Kinect Plus I would expect the following Halo Reach and Forza 3 ports
If they want to come back to PC, then the first thing they would need to make is a new Combat Flight Simulator.
They are rebooting Flight simulator series but Microsoft just calling it Flight now
I'll believe it when I see it frankly. This ain't the first time they've claimed to want to support PC. They have a nasty habit of giving up halfway.
GFWL is the cancer of the PC gaming community. It's buggy, annoying and you can't save games when you aren't online. Not only that but it always has problems connecting to the internet too. Steam >>>>>>> GWFL.
I play games like Fallout 3 and Dark Void offline, I can save my games. How is it buggy? Or annoying in a way Steam isn't? GFWL is famous for NAT issues and I agree that Microsoft needs to fix that.
GFWL games crash more than any other PC game I own and don't look that great. I hate to discover it's in a game.
im not a pc gamer at all. but i dont get why micro doesnt cross breed the two the 360 is a pc at heart, no? they was on track with that online shooter game forgot the name. it would be sick if next gen they whent full on with that idea. they should also just buy valve. i wish i knew what micro is thinking on not growing there 1st party.. and the title just sounds stupid. thats like me saying nintendo, sony, and micro divide hurting the game industry
MS should never buy Valve... They would ruin it completely. I for one would never use Steam again if MS where at the helm.
Microsoft buying a developer as big as Valve would be the worst thing to happen to the games industry in decades. How could you even suggest that?
pc are 86x based consoles are based on power pc two whole different things. If it would word there would be more pc with triple cores 5 years back and with cell processors in them.
Yikes, stay away from Steam, MS! What a terrible idea!
Lmfao! Now that I think of it, it would be a bad idea. Pc gamers would get raped for every update. No more free stuff. Sorry guys don't know much about this stuff should of just stood out of it. It was the title that got me. Thought it was going to have more news about left for dead