Michael Vick moved down on the falcons dept chart in Madden 08 following todays roster update. This was a definitely a necessary action for EA to take and I am glad they did this.
so he is still in the game, I mean you can just adjust your depth chart and put him as the starter before an online, it would be different if they removed him entirely, or severly decreased his ratings, like what happens with an injury.
From a gaming standpoint, wouldn't you still want him to play? The computer character didn't kill dogs.
I think they should have taken him out all together
At least make your title lead people to understand what really happened and NOT what you want to happen. It should read "EA move Michael Vick to 4th in the Falcons depth charts.
for what? Being indicted? What the f*ck happened to "due process". You people make me sick, always looking for some $hit to complain about. Like you REALLY give a damn about those poor pit bulls. I've never met a nice pit bull in my life. THEY ARE BRED TO FIGHT. There is no positive reason for pitbulls to be domesticated.
As for "ron mexico". Yes, he's an idiot, I'm not defending what he is ACCUSED of doing. But don't join the media in the witch hunt, you all know if he wasn't famous no one would give a damn about this case.
Why would you go out and buy Madden and waste your time on this forum, just play your damn game you spoiled fux
Yes I'm glad too, he deserves it for being a jerk not only showing fans the middle finger saying "Mind your Falcon business", also putting dogs to fight and killing them or almost...
Leave Vick alone i dont see y its ok for people to fvck with bulls in a rodeo, stab bulls as a sport in some countries etc and no one says shlt we kill millions of chickens, pigs and cows everyday and no one says nething but someone makes their dogs fight and its the biggest thing in the world yea its wrong but u really need to stop making it such a personal issue, go worry about bigger issues happening in the world than someone damn dog
EDIT: @ gil i'm sure bulls enjoy being rode on at rodeos i'm sure thats what they would rather be doing instead of being on pasture eating grass n shlt keep looking at rodeos as being something thats ok for a bull..........to romanpatrician atleast u took some time to understand what i was saying i'm against cruelty towards animals but i feel people need to look at all other things that are going on in animal cruelty and not just focus on Vick just cus hes a celeb
You're obviously a complete and utter moron.
"i dont see y its ok for people to fvck with bulls in a rodeo, stab bulls as a sport in some countries etc"
*First off we ride bulls, not "fuvk with them"
*Other countries is the keyword here, we're talking U.S.A not other countries. Dog fighting = against the law.
*Fighting dogs is cruel, they're pet's not fighters.
"we kill millions of chickens, pigs and cows everyday and no one says nething"
*seriously? We kill them for food. food=survival. We don't make them fight. Co*k fighting also = illegal. Read the bible those are animals put here for FOOD.
Hopefully this gets through to you, but from your post it seems like logic is not part of your forte. Let's try this, you give me your dog and I will throw it into a ring and let people bet on if a pitbull can kill it or not. Deal?
You idiot, bulls are ridden in a rodeo, not tortured and last time I checked bullfighting was illegal as well in the US. Livestock is killed for food, not sport. Many of these dogs die or are permanently disfigured. You do realize that they train these dogs by having them attack and kill smaller, defenseless dogs?
Vick should be locked in a room with some of these same dogs.
Last time I checked Kobe was exonerated. The b!tch lied about the rape. Don't compare him to that sorry FCK, Vick.
I think all of you should hold judgement until after he has had a fair trial and has been found guilty by a jury of his peers. How the hell are you A$$es going to talk down on M. Vick and the only thing you know about his case is what you have seen on your damn TV between video games. You have no fact, just speculation, and last time I checked a person should not be convicted merely on speculation.
In India, they think Americans are senseless for eating cows, you know what that goes along with their beliefs and I can live with that. But, how can you guys living in America with a judicial system that says innocent until proven guilty talk sh!t like that about a man based on mere speculation. (At least until the trial is over.)
EA moved MV down on the depth charts because here is being suspended buy the NFL commissioner and therefore to match the falcons depth charts they updated the roster. It has nothing to do with his aledged crime. I can also bet you that some people, will pull him back into the starting lineup if they choose to use the falcons when playing madden. If you don't simply because of the alegations that are being held against him, the you're a bigger idiot that I thought, it only a damn game, one that you are trying to actually win in, not pass judgement in.
Some of you people never cease to amaze me with you prejudice
bullsh!t. Hopefully you won't get accused of something someday, and without giving you a chance some A$$hole is plugging up the chair for your execution.
Also, some vegan and vegetarians would beg to differ on the fact that we need to kill animals for survival. There are plenty of vegetables out there that are high on protein. That alone would get a disagree from some people.
Anyway, I see validity to all of you points, but this speculatory hate that has come out of some of your computer keyboards is sickening. andapaul88's comment was a bit insensitive, but there was some validity to it.
I know, I am going to receive some disagrees and negative responses for this comment, but go ahead I would expect nothing less.
I think we should consider andapual88's argument a bit more before we start making ad hominem attacks in order to disprove it.
From an ethical standpoint he seems to be on very solid footing. Consider: Kantian ethical philosophy is hierarchical, with a very clear delineation between God, Humans and Animals. The relationship that exists between each group determines plays a large part in determining the moral worth of the action.
For example, any human to human interaction can be judged ethically proper or improper because the participants inhibit the same level of rationality. However when actions occur in a vertical manner, i.e. interaction between humans and animals, the same moral systems that are deemed appropriate in the horizontal relationships do not apply. Thus while it is unethical for a human to murder another human it is not unethical for a human to kill an animal nor for a God to kill a human. They do not exist in the same sphere of rationality and their actions cannot be assigned an ethical worth because their levels of understanding are incomparable. What my look like an inappropriate act, i.e. the taking of a life, is not actually morally inappropriate when the taker of the life is a human and an animal is one dying.
All moral systems recognize this separation to some extend. No philosophies say thou shall not kill anything, period. And for obvious and good reasons.
Kant's system is particularly valuable when considering the Vic case because Kant does not like exceptions. His ethical philosophy is based around the idea that for an action to be acceptable it must be able to be done by all humans universially. This called the categorical imperative.
Those who have argued against andapaul88 seem to be making an exception for dogs that does not exist for other animals. That it is somehow ethically better for a human to eat a cow then it is for a human to force to dogs to fight each other. From a Kantian perspective no action commit by a human against an animal is ethically or morally inappropriate. To make it an issue of ethics is to bring the animal on to the level of the human and for him (and I happen to agree) that seems inappropriate as it is clear that humans and animal are different and different in a way that humans and other humans are not.
When put in this light, Andapaul88's point that a human should not be judged on his actions against an animal seem entirely appropriate. Why should society make an issue that is not ethical, i.e. not between to equals, into an ethical issue? To do so brings up the whole issue of making an exception based around subjective and emotional reasoning, which most philosophers consider as quite a poor thing to start an ethical philosophy around. It isn't done because it can't pass the test of making it universally applicable.
So, Andapaul88, I think you were absolutely correct in your belief that Vic's actions were ethically okay.
One further thing, those arguing against Andapaul88, brought up the matter of legalty and I want to address this. Vic's actions were illegal, but from an ethical standpoint that means very little because as we all know, laws vary from location to location and over time. In Germany during the second world war it was legal to persucute certain minorty, but as we know it was certainly unethical for them to do so. Ethics, however, and especially in Kantian philosophy, is not subjective to location, period of history or any other human factors. It is based around rationality and is timeless. If anyone wants to continue this discussion, I am more then happy to, but won't I discuss legality as it seems a very poor basis for morality.
uh roman.. i think you are forgetting something.. we live in a society that names their pets, gives them doghouses, hell they even give them little outfits to wear around. This is a society that often treats animals on par or even better than the homeless human beings that you see when in a city. You had a nice little argument there quoting some things you learned in class, but you forgot one thing. Philosophy sucks.. woohoo.. yeah deep deal with it.
"we live in a society that names their pets, gives them doghouses, hell they even give them little outfits to wear around. This is a society that often treats animals on par or even better than the homeless human beings that you see when in a city."
Do you no see a little something wrong with a society that treats it's animals on par or even better than humans. In lies the problem!
Roman made some excellent points, and perhaps we should open our minds enough to at least try and see other people's views for they will differ from your in some cases. Also remember, you at some point may be the odd man out, because of this, should you be discarded with your opinion. I think not.
The fact that someone would want to give broken bread to a pigeon while shewing away the homeless is a travisty.
One last thing for you, we also live in a society where a person is not considered GUILTY until proven so in a court of law. Stop judging people on such serious matters, unless of course you are a JUDGE, and even then at least consider the jury's verdict.
I'm glad you liked the argument. I did, however, address societies position on dogs when I discussed legality, which in our society is supposedly decided by the people. I am, however, much more interested in the ethical philosophy of vic's case then its legality.
And you should give philosophy a try, it can be quite fun to have a rational basis for your actions.
hey roman, you are right about the categorical imperative- "So act that the maxim of your will could always hold at the same time as the principle giving universal law"... in other words if every single person acted as Vick did (if he actually did it) would and could it be considered moral? If anything Kant would consider it AMORAL. Thats right folks, Kant doesnt really deal with human to animal relations, he considers actions of that sort human----> animal as non-moral, or amoral. You want to know why? Because humans have practical reason for which to judge, animals do not. Bringing up Kant in this instance is completely unsound due to this fact. Animals are not considered moral beings and therefore cannot be put into his nice little system. However, dogs do feel pain, pleasure and the likes.
If you want to talk philosophy and our effects upon animals maybe he wouldnt be the best man to quote. Deontology is a bunch of horse sh!t anyway.
I agree with you its not acceptable to torchure animals and then have them fight for the hell of it. I find it morally and ethically wrong. I responded to the Kantian argument because not only did i take a class where he was our only subject but I also have a degree in philosophy. Using Kant to talk about human animal relations is completely irrelevant to our ethical standards of today.
WHAT IN THE HELL!? How did that get taken so far out of context. I won't even read all your posts their practically mini novels. I started reading the first one and got to the "how can you accuse Vick before trial blah blah" um ok first off I never once used his name. I was talking ethics boys and girls. Laws are laws - bullfighting, co*kfighting, and dog dighting are and always will be illegal in the U.S. What other countries do is irrelevant to this situation. "So, Andapaul88, I think you were absolutely correct in your belief that Vic's actions were ethically okay." ethically ok? It's ethically ok to torture a creature to make it extremely vicious so it will get a ring and try to kill any other creature because that's how it was trained? All while a bunch of men can bet over it? If that's ethically ok, than you're morally retarded. Some of you make the most idiotic claims I have ever seen. Cows, Pigs and Chickens are food, don't spin it any other way. It's in the bible to be a hunter and use the animals for food, don't bullsh!t around that fact. No where in the bible does it say "It's ethically ok to torture creatures" gimme a break and don't pull out some "kant ethics" sh!t on me. This is about being a human and the fact of the matter is torturing things is plain WRONG. Killing certain animals to eat is NOT wrong.
The fact that Kant considers the human/animal interaction outside ethics is the very reason why his philosophy should be used to consider Vic's situation, particularly when people are arguing for an ethical judgement of a human based on his treatment of an animal.
The problem that I have with your argument is that there is no consistency to your stance. Animals can be killed as long as its not cruel? Or animals can be treated cruelly as long as you eat them? Or as long as you don't profit from animal 'cruelty' then its okay to kill them?
The consistency and rationality of Kant's ethical system when considering animals is what makes it so personally attractive.
I see your point. However, I still must disagree with you that it is an acceptable philosophy to look at when dealing with human/animal relations. Back when he was writing he didnt know how animals think, we have learned way too much since then. Technology has improved and we understand so much more about animals then they did back then. To use this philosopy in todays world and talk about how it should be applied in this instance may be doing both this topic and Kant a great disservice.
I don't think applying Kant to today's world is doing a disservice to anyone. Sartre didn't seem to think there was a problem with it when he smuggled it into existentialism is a humanism.
However, as you are someone who obviously thinks there is an ethical problem with dog fighting I am interested in your reasoning behind such a stance and would gladly turn this discussion away from Kant if you wanted to present an alternative ethical position.
My stance comes from a biblical and governmental one. The government says it's wrong to have animals fight, therefore it's illegal. Not only is it illegal it's entirely unethical and immoral and just plain mean. My biblical stance comes from the fact that animals were placed here by god to be food. By what your all saying is that since it's wrong to make animals fight, than it should also be wrong to eat them? It's unethical and immoral to make them fight, it's not unethical or immoral to merely use your resources to survive. Basic point is that they torture those dogs, we use those animals for survival. Yes we DON'T have to eat meat, but the bible says I should hunt and eat them as that's what they're their for.
Sorry if I took the wind out of this conversation, but it had to be done.
I'm glad you clarified. I respect the divine command theory of ethics and have no interest in dissuading you from having a philosophy and standing by it.
However, if you are going to use the bible to defend your position on animal cruelty I suggest you also read what it has to say about how humans should treat humans and then compare that with your stance on animal cruelty and see if they are compatible.
kant didn't know [email protected][email protected]
Wow there are always bigger issues to worry about but that does not mean people can go around breaking the law. That made no sense what so ever.
Vick to many little kids is an Idol and also teenagers that are fans of the Falcons (I'm a eagle fan :)) and a kid who sees their Idol doing this then will try to mimic his actions and think It's good what he did because thats the person who they look up to he deserves this punishment and he should learn from it which I think he has and feels sorry so Its not just about the a dog dyeing also we kill chickens to eat trhem not for self pleasure and for money...
Yea. I agree.
HAHA VICK IS TAKEN OUT FROM 360!!! Ps3 ROCKS LOL
lmfao jk, what is ea gonna do next. take kobe bryant out of nba 08? leave vick alone he's just beaten up a few dogs well so what, we chinese ppl frickin eat dogs.
He's an asshole. Dog fighting is fkng cruel and he was executing dogs that were not aggressive enough too. By electrocution, and hanging.
Drowning them as well. This dude is the lowest form of life on the planet. I have 2 pits, both pansies, lol. They are the greatest dogs on the planet. Protective as hell. To the guys who say "They were bred to fight, durka...", get your fvckin facts straight, tard. They were bred for protection from thieves. They are vicious as sh1t if somebody messes with what's their's....but other than that they are sweet as pie. All the people who say that it's okay to drown a dog who isn't vicious enough, is probably the same kind of person who leaves a baby in a dumpster, or drowns 'em in a lake. Heartless motherfvckers. Dude was linked to it, funded the kennels, and terefore should get the MOST of the punishment. Paying for the crap is condoning it...jackasses. Everybody's just mad that his people are turning state against him, and now he's caught. EA doesn't care about the dog situation though, they just look at the football, which is pretty much the way it oughta be. It's a game simulator, not an ethics sim.
Well i'm guessing EA had to do something, moving Vick to the 4th spot on the depth chart is good when playing the CPU but online(ha has ne1 tried playin this crap online) ne1 can easily put him in the game.
there is no way they will take him out of the game, UNTIL he is at the least suspended by the NFL.
and remember people INNOCENT until proven GUILTY....remember OJ?
Vick was never charged with fighting dogs! or killing them!
He was prosecuted for bearing witness to these accounts as that is a felony in Ga. The only reason this was even a big deal is because the NFL has strict rules about law breaking outside of the NFL's required public representation.
The NFL is the reason this was a big deal because it was a matter of him returning or not.
This act has been committed 1000s of times, its just because the NFL wants all players to withhold a specific code of conduct. Vick just was unfortunate that someone would stoop as low as to report him when participating in the act with him. "QUESTION"??? Why havent we heard anything about the others participating in these acts with him! Simply because they arnt famous NFL players. You shouldnt try to bring more shame to a person simply because of the image. if u did it u did u cant make some one else look worse when u participated in the same act.
Please people be considerate of how u judge others for we all shall one day be judge by the true JUDGE.
Yeah like I stated early. It's amazing how people are so fast to turn their backs on someone they claimed they were a fan of. I don't think EA should have changed anything. He's still a part of the Falcons and it should be a choice if you want to keep him in the game. He hasn't been convicted and if he comes back to the team (which I doubt),then what.
to do the update?
All you have to do is go to quick game then download the roster and just back out before the game starts
good for his arss, he's not missing nothing anyways!
This situation with Vick is overrated, Vick should be punished if found guilty but some fools are trying to take him out of society, thats BULL$HIT!
I hate MADDEN for not adding ONLINE LEAGUES yet again, now I can take this POS back for doing this to Vick. I want him to be a friggin starter, he hasnt been convicted of anything yet.
This is the US innocent until proven guilty!
I find it gut busting to hear people bashing Vick like this. Anyone who bashes Vick over this is retarded and should shut the hell up. If you were so concerned about the safety of these dogs and health of these dogs and think its wrong what happens to these dogs than you would also spend your time raising hell and condemning Greyhound races. Huge numbers of greyhounds are killed each year by their owners just because they can't run fast enough to compete. Perfectly healthy dogs put down and ground up just because they can't run fast enough to compete with other dogs. You don't hear people that truly care about animal rights complaining about Vick. This includes PETA. Why don't you see them at the dozens of other dog fighting rings that are uncovered protesting but you see them at Vick's? Who is not being charged with dog fighting by the way. Because they wanted to be in theSpotlight thats why, and this is why no one takes people seriously. If they are so worried about animal rights like the rest of you tards on this site that go and protest Jennifer Lopez and the dozens of other celebrities that wear FUR!! We all know what he did was wrong but you nerds are trying to play like the morality police when your really just hypocrites.
people may be hypocrites but that doesnt justify dog fighting in the least.
"I find it gut busting to hear people bashing Vick like this. Anyone who bashes Vick over this is retarded and should shut the hell up . . .etc"
man they need to change that stupid ass phrase, its guilty until proven innocent. you don't put innocent men in handcuffs
this is strictly a matter of personal opinion.
All\most animals fight another naturally, its life get over it.
Killing Animals for food doesn't deem it "RIGHT". there are plenty of other sources of food than meat. thats y some people are Vegeheads.
Alot of the entertainment industry with animals involves animal cruelty. Bulls don't want people riding on their backs, thats y they try to kick the bull rider off, its even said that the bulls are agitated to make act the way they do.
Now i know there is a million people here to disagree with what i just typed, i really don't care, its my opinion and it *makes sense*
If it kills you about what MV did, make a f*ckin rally\petition to make sure he goes to jail.
ok guys... vick is a trashy a$$hole. Its cruel and inhumane to take part in dog fights. How much money does he make a year? he does it for the pleasure of watching dogs die? That to me is the definition of an a$$hole. Hes an embarrassment to football, hes an embarrassment to the falcon organization, and hes an embarrassment to his fans.
This situation is overrated? I would like to see Vick sit in the ring with two fighting pitbulls and see how well his throwing arm does.
@JAX below.... Im not condoning what others do to animals either... however I am not talking about bullriders or anything else. I am talking about his actions and those who do the same thing.
He does it for money? He doesnt make enough already? I can judge those who do wrong and I do think its wrong for people to fight dogs. Thats my opinion, I think acting decently towards animals is the right thing to do and that this is definitely not ok. However, I am not being prejudice by saying that he is in the wrong.
I am not arguing he isn't wrong becaue he is, even he knows that. He just got ratted out by some shady muthas who have probably been leeching off of him and his riches as well and then want to turn around and snitch him out. Thats a different story though. My beef with what you just posted is this, one he does it for the money not the pleasure and two you have no room to judge him because thats predjiduce. If you feel that strongly about those animals than why not go post against bull riders, you think bulls like that sh^t? I don't think so. What happens when a riding bull outlives its purpose? They are slaughterd. They don't live out the rest of their lives on some farm, they die. The same with Greyhounds and race horses. If they can't compete they die, a perfectly healthy animal whos only problem is that they can't compete well enough to win thier owners prize money, just killed off. I know you don't think all the celebrities and there are lot's that support these activities are assholes. I know the media sure doesn't portray them this way. You might say well these dogs fight and that is very true it's brutal but the argument is for the well being of the animal and ultimately they all die for no reason whether it's a fighting dog, greyhounds, race horses, or bulls, they all are killed off for no reason other than money. So you must have some other beef with Vick to call him an asshole and not everyone else who participates in these acts. Don't be a dumb sissy and start trash talking Vick because you think it's cool, if you are going to rant about animal cruelty go the whole nine and start a petition go and protest dog and horse races and bull riding. Go throw paint on fur coats and become a vegetarian.
We are all just as bad as Vick because technically according to the bible whether you read it or not we are all suppossed to only eat fish as a source of meat. Most of us don't follow that rule so I guess we are all cruel.
LMFAO LMFOA LMFAO!!!!...oh my gosh...I don't believe you just said that. The only verse you know out of the bible is probably the part where it goes thou shalt not kill. And you probably don't even know what book of the bible that is in lol. Seriously no...no the bible DID NOT say that at all, please...go back to genesis actually read it, then...read some exodus, then you can talk. And you wll clearly see that the bible DOES NOT say that...wooow. that was just blasphemy..and if you don't know what that means, which you probably don't..read the bible some more rofl.
joey harrington>michael vick
leave mike alone. there's alot of other sh!t thats going on in the America they should leave that black people alone. I bought madden today and was under the impression that he would be in the game. White America have already done their share to fu(k up the black people and now this. Will it ever stop. Case in point, Elvis was a dope head and everyone knew this (fu(k he died from an overdose) and he became a legend as well as he should have. Barry Bonds, he should go down in history as the greatest baseball player in story that might not happen,with the white media having turned all the people who once loved him against him( even his own teammates). B Bonds deserves all the greatness that comes to record sitters. Hell, even after it was proven( that he actually benefitted from steroids), Mcgaire be still enjoyed his is fame. Leave the brown people alone. the list could go on forever bout how many black were stewed by the white ppl and the media. Its a sad case in American history point blank... I am thoroughly disgusted, I have to go. Ps leave MIKE VICK ALONE!!!!!!!
Throwing out the race card, huh? So let me get this straight. Who's fault is it Vick "allegedly" participated in an illegal activity? The white government or the white media. I don't remember hearing the reports of the white man putting a gun to Vick's head to make him make the pit bulls fight. Vick is in the media spotlight because he is a talented athlete that did something extremely stupid and illegal. Vick is a grown ass man and is responsible for his actions.
Ok, so I got to like 5.12 and decided that you guys are completely and UTTERLY oblivious to the world around you. We are living in a world where they feed chickens...chicken...a world where we force chickens to lay eggs, farm animals are like slaves. Bull riding?..there is a reason the bull is trying to get the guy off his back...BECAUSE THE BULL IS PISSED AS SHT. So WHAT THE HECK, are you guys trying to say? I mean, think about it if you grew up in a world where dog fighting was legal, you wouldn't have a problem would you? Because all you do, is listen to the media of this corrupt thing we called a government. Disgusting, to think that bull riding is any more ethical than dog fighting -.-. Humans mistreat animals day after day after day. Some where put on this earth for food, so i understand but even some farms do not treat the animals "ethically" correctly. Sigh, i'm so disgusted I don't even feel like typing a story. So i'm ending it here.
spot the fvck on bubble 4 u
I own 5 pit bulls and if they get loose... they fight!
i know because i have witnessed it. certain dogs will fight without hesitation. people dont make them fight they do it on there own.... and for the morons that say put vick in a ring with some of the dogs and see how he likes it... I THINKS THATS FUNNY BECAUSE THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE IN THE RING WITH THE DOGS AS THEY FIGHT... I just wish u people would respond to things u actually have knowledge about. some of u are complete and total idiots...
i have breed pit bulls for over 8 years and they fight with each other from birth... u mean none of u have seen a litter of pitt bulls try to eat food!!! all they do is fight... TO SAY PEOPLE MAKE THEM FIGHT IS BULL SH*T. IF ANY THING BETTING ON THE FIGHT SHOULD BE THE PROBLEM
ANYWAYS U PEOPLE ACT AS IF U WERE BORN YESTERDAY THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN GOING ON SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME "LIVE" LIKE U HAVE A LIFE
For u who feel u can judge others by there actions GOD will deal accordingly with the nonbeliever
Before either of you going bringing God or the Bible into this, you might try reading one first. If Vick had, maybe it would have helped him.
Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
Translation: God says obey the law or you're going to get punished.
Wow are you serious. They put them in a ring and make them fight to the death. They starve them and make them fight over food.....
How do your comments have anything to do with what dog fighting.
I am not going to get into a bible fight but thats just what I know ( that we are supposed to eat fish). As a matter of fact did you ever in your reading of the bible recall jesus feeding anyone anything other than fish? Any ways my point is and Jrome you hit on this as well. We do all sorts of things to animals we shouldn't do don't make Vick seem like the first and worst to do this. There are people that F*ck horses( men and women) and post it on the net.
Correct me if im wrong, but the actual dog fighting charges are only a fine...its the interstate gambling charges that are the federal felony for which hes in the most sh*t for..
Only if he is able to beat 4 pitbulls in a cage match.
where he belongs ....The most over rated player of all time..
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