Mark Rein Official Forum Response to Disk Sizes on PS3 & 360

Epic VP Mark Rein is feeling the true force of the fanboy and decided to post an official response to their statement about PS3 disks able to hold more data than that of the 360. His post begins as follows:

"I continue to be disappointed that folks on the internet treat any positive thing we say about one platform as some sort of critique of another platform. We're a multi-platform company folks please come to grips with that. We like the PC. We like the 360. We like the PS3. We like the Macintosh. We like Linux. We will deliver UT3 for all of these platforms and it will rock on every one.

The simple facts state that the optical disc on the PS3 holds more data than the optical disc on the 360. If we exceed size of the 360s optical disc then we'll have to find alternative ways to get the content to 360 users such as making it downloadable. Adding a second DVD to a game like UT3 would be a challenge because when playing online you might not know exactly what map you're going to be playing next and we have to be able to accommodate users of the core system. So does that mean the disc on the 360 might have a map or two less? Possibly although it is too early to tell for sure. People love Unreal Tournament because we always ship it with tons of great content but that also makes it a bit of a disc hog - in a good way

Obviously, and as is true with most major games on 360 and PS3, you're going to be putting your hard drive to good use if you want to experience the full richness of content that UT3 will have to offer over the lifetime of the game. the fact that you can do this is a good thing."

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Lord Anubis4056d ago

I was submitting this when I was informed that you were already submitting this. :(

Systematrix4056d ago

That's happened to me a lot recently, so many more contributors now, hard to get the news first.

Xbox 360 Will4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

Microsoft got mad at me for saying the DVD9 is last gen and that blu-ray was the future and so they made me get on my official forum to try to spin my previous comment into something less brutal towards the 360 and less glorifying for the PS3. Those of you that are smart know that what i originally said still stands and that you should pick up the PS3 version of UT3 or buy a PS3 and get that version. Thank you for your time.

Nemesis4056d ago

So your saying that I should go out and blow £400 on a PS3, on the off chance that I might end up getting a few extra maps on the disc. Maps which i'll no doubt be able to download for free on xbox live anyway. Damn you must have money to burn if you think that's a good idea.

Xbox 360 Will4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

play on true next gen hardware buy a PS3. Microsoft hurried to get the 360 to market because they wanted to have a lead on the PS3 they were only thinking about the presence. As a result you have faulty hardware, not every 360 has a hard drive and they are using DVD9 which they have to come up with new compression techniques just to fit information on it. Sony was thinking about the future. They took their time to bring the PS3 to market they made sure the hardware was top notch. They included a hard drive in every model with the ability to upgrade your hard drive to whatever size meets your needs they included blu-ray so that it would not hinder developers when it comes to the size limits of games. PS3 is less then a year old and already 4-5 developers have stated that DVD and not having a hard drive on every 360 model is a hinderance. More and more developers will say this as time goes on. UT3 is not the only game this will happen to.

Price is nothing if you want a long lasting satisfying investment. The price can come down the only things Microsoft could do is make a new 360 with reliable hardware using a next gen media format then they would have to put it in the hands of the 10 million 360 owners for free as to not screw them over and that ain't going to happen.

Real Gambler4056d ago

Yet, he then goes to say "you're going to be putting your hard drive to good use" because if you cannot fit the stuff on the DVD, then you'll have to download it.

There's two reasons why the PS3 is more expensive, Bluray and hard disk in ALL consoles. So to save the day, Mark is telling us that if it doesn't fit on a DVD, use your hard disk... On the 360 Core???

Somehow, he went from one hole into another one...

popup4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

Well there you go. At last a dev states the completely obvious.

It does not matter because the same old 'don't care about disc swaps', 'compression' and 'how about this idea Mr Dev' will emerge.

Silver3604056d ago

And he knows that saying he is selling a gimped version for the 360 would cut his sales of the game dramatically and might even affect Gears2 sales. You don't piss off your customers. That's the simple truth.

eLiNeS4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

if, and I say IF HD-DVD wins the format war. You don't know, I don't know, nobody knows until it's over and when it's over and IF HD-DVD wins you loss. If Blu-ray wins then we will either be stuck downloading maps for FREE or eventually a Blu-ray side kick will be available and newer 360 Blu's will be available. So not a big deal for Xbox 360 owners, just another day at the office, something is always getting better and upgradable each and every day but where not forced into something that my fail.

Systematrix4056d ago

whether it fits on the game disk or whether you have to d-load it to your HD? I've got over 80gigs left on my HD, bring on the DLC!

Guitarded4056d ago

Sony didn't put bluray in for next(current) gen gaming. They did it to push their new movie format because they were tired of losing the format wars in movies. People seem to forget that Microsoft went to the major dev's and asked them what they needed in the next gen b4 it arrived. So it would seem the dev's didn't see the need for more storage at the time either.

hazeblaze4056d ago

Actually, Sony did it for the sake of next gen gaming... being their format is just an added benefit. EVERY gen they're the company that pushes the limit of gaming by introducing a better format for gaming... they took us from cartridges to cdroms to dvd's to blu ray... Blu ray is the first 'next gen' format that was a Sony product. You fanboys simply don't want to except that Sony's competitors chose to stay with last gen formats instead of moving forward as Sony has done EACH gen.

BlLL GATES4055d ago

360 version will suck. wow. why would you even buy the 360 version is beyond me.
stupid xbots hahahahaha

s8anicslayer4055d ago

dude you have stated the truth and all xbots do not want to hear this so they will fight you and anybody else who repeats it tooth and nail that it's untrue, but who cares what they think anyways because we all know the truth, but heres bubbles, well said!

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TheMART4056d ago

Well make one disc for the single player and one for the multiplayer then if needed. That way no swapping at all. There are some creative ways.

Although I am pretty sure that they'll compress it to get it on one DL-DVD for sure

DJ4056d ago

For once I actually agree with you. While still a bit inconvenient and requiring extra QA costs, it's still better than cutting out content. The only issue I see is that there's a lot of data overlap between the single-player and multiplayer, so they still might have trouble doing it on two discs. But still, I think it's a viable solution that'll keep 360 owners happy. =]

GoLeafsGo4056d ago

That's actually a great suggestion.

Rooted_Dust4056d ago

Because in previous UT games all single player did was put you in a multiplayer map with Bots. I know this one has a story this time around, but I still think single player will use the same maps as multiplayer.

AngryHippo4056d ago

....a good idea. Good comment and bubbles for you.

Hatchetforce4056d ago

Then you run into the issue of not being able to have a texture pool. Now you have to put items on the MP disc that were originally shared by SP and MP. Textures, sounds, etc. Disc size now goes back up. Epic is an advanced gaming company and they know more about what they are doing with the Unreal 3 engine than other people.

I am always amazed when some nobody on a forum makes a suggestion on how Epic or any other major company is screwing up. Particularly when said person isn't a member of the UT Developer Network, doesn't understand how the engine functions or even works in the game development industry.

Maybe these same people need to go down to their local neurosurgery department or NASA (I am sure know-it-alls can do both jobs at once) and fix everything those people are doing wrong.

Vip3r4056d ago

"Adding a second DVD to a game like UT3 would be a challenge because when playing online you might not know exactly what map you're going to be playing next and we have to be able to accommodate users of the core system."

From what was said here is doesn't sound likely.

sticky doja4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

When I play multiplayer games I hate to have to go to a screen to choose that I want to play multiplayer and wait for the multiplayer system to load, In GRAW 2 especially. When people put a game in to play 99.9% of the time they know if they want to get online to play or simply play the single player mode.

True, more space is better if available but having to wait years to get that more space, and having to pay 500-600 dollars for more space on one disc is not worth it to me. I am thankfull microsoft came out with the next gen when they did, I am thankfull they didnt put unproven technology in it and charge me and extra 200 because of it, and I thankfull I didnt have to wait another year because of it.

Why are you so upset dude? Why do you think I am bawling? I said I would prefer multiple discs on games that have a big theme of online and a single player campaign so I didnt have to go through the load to get to the multiplayer section, specifically in GRAW which I play all to often, I have an extra 15-20 seconds of load each time I turn it on just to get to the multiplayer options. 2 different discs on that game in particular would save me load times, which would make me happy. Sorry dude didn't know I was gonna get you all worked up and go ALL CAPS over that comment. Also, by the time DVD9 games start gettin the shaft, the PS3 will be cheap enough where I will already have one.

Mu5afir4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

A game didn't require you to load of data form the disk.

You can't simply switch disks when you are playing online, when you need a new map to load up. And you can't accommodate for every user, if some users are lacking hardware support. This has been stated by the developer, it amazes me that you READ this and still think 2 disk is an option.

As much as it hurts some people, you have to realize that MORE SPACE is always a GOOD THING. How anyone can argue against this is beyond me. More space means, games like Strangled can have a full future length movie included on the Ps3 version. The Darkness can have a few more mins of video footage etc..

More is a good thing, more space is a good thing. Arguing against it is just dumb.

solidt124056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

I see where you are going with the two disc thing but they will still need to have downloadable content either way because the game itself will not fit on DVD9. If they Compress it then that means the PS3 version is the best version and they want to stay away from that. The PS3 version has the harddrive also which contrary to what people thinks makes it run faster even though Blu-Ray slower than DVD. The PS3 caches files to harddrive so the speed of the Blu-Ray disc is not a factor. Personally I would want to swap disc either. If you want to play multiplayer then you must have the Internet, So when you load the disc just have the game on the 360 tell you to get the update then download the multiplayer maps so you can have the Game on one disc and your harddrive for multiplayer. Your gonna have to download maps anyway in he future.

Rageanitus4056d ago

They will use the same maps and textures on sp and mp

Hatchetforce4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

Well Sticky,

You say you are glad MS didn't put unproven technology into the 360? Well it's your fault but I have to say it now, RROD. THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF UNPROVEN TECHNOLOGY. I know, I am still waiting on my 3rd 360 to come back.

Bluray is proven technology. It works and it works marvelously. If MS had it then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If you are happy with DVD9, then don't start bawling how companies are not doing their job the first time you hear that DVD9 is becoming outdated and you won't get the same game as those that bought a PS3. I bought both and I am covered.


InMyOpinion4056d ago

It's more and more obvious people click 'disagree' before they've read what you have to say...

SlappyMcTaint4056d ago

er, i mean, The Mart... Did you ever think that it's the maps and textures that take up most of the space and if those aren't all on the same disc, being single and multi or not, you won't be able to play any or all of the maps if they're spllit onto 2 discs?


DethWish4056d ago

UT isn't like that..
There's no way all multiplayer maps could be stored on 1 DVD9 since.. well multiplayer maps is what UT is about :) They're gonna have tons of them and as some people said earlier, Single Player will most likely be played on Multiplayer maps, as was the case in UT1, UT2003 and UT2004

shysun4056d ago

Does UT3 have Single player?

SDS Gamerfiend4056d ago

You are a genious! If need be, that`s a great option! That way, core users don`t have to suffer! Multiplayer all on one disk! Brilliant!

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Systematrix4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

You are correct TheMart. They need to think before they say things like this and get fanboys all up in arms. There are other ways around disk space limitation.

Hatchetforce4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

Not giving gamers the cold hard facts is what is wrong. Mark Rein stated a likely hypothesis. The 360 disk won't hold as much data as a PS3 disk. What really angers these fanboys are facts. They better get used to it. Epic is far far from the last company to tell you a certain console's DVD9 disc doesn't measure up to requirements.

Mu5afir4056d ago

Yes, the developer has to think before he puts the FACTs down. How can someone argue against a DEVELOPER? Do you know something that Mark Rain doesn't?

SofaKingReetodded4056d ago

consoles are supposed to impose limitations toward the end of their product cycle, not at the beginning. That being the case with the 360 where less than two years into it's life it's already posing problems for developers. We haven't even made the first turn in this race and this horse is already showing signs of fatigue. What do you think is gonna be the situation 4,3 even 2 years down the line as games get bigger and more complex since devs always figure out new ways to push the hardware when they get more familiar with it. TO be honest I don't see the 360 crossing the finish line on this one.

Armyless4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

Microsoft will keep releasing new SKU's to keep up with new market demands to stay competitive burgeoning PS3 hardware watermark. Either that or sell an Xbox 720 in 2 years.

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Violater4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

Seems we have some game developers on N4G that know all the "possibilities"
People of late seem to be throwing around terms that they hardly know anything about.

Why can't you guys just admit it, there are advantages to having a larger capacity disk.

THAMMER14056d ago

I have never heard or seen any one type that having more space is a problem or that having less is an advantage. That would be plain stupid.

The idea behind it is that a DVD9 is perfectly fine for now. The games prove that them self. I think gamers who only choose Sony have a stigma and believe that is what people truly think due to Blu Ray being standard in the PS3.

My personal take on it is Blu Ray is needed for the PS3 because they are not using any compression techniques. DVD9 is fin for the 360 because they are using these techniques. If a developer can fit a great game onto a DVD9 what difference doest it make to me? If they cannot fit the game release the game on two discs.

Example: If UT: 3 comes out Campaign on one disc and Multi. Player on the other who would that Kill? Not me I'm buying it no mater how they figure it out. I have an XBOX360elite I have enough HDD for anything they can dish out.

This should not be a big issue at all if you think about it.

sticky doja4056d ago

to having slower reading new technology discs.

Mu5afir4056d ago

More space is always good, the Blu-Ray drive has a constant read speed. It doesn't slow down like the DVD9 disks as it passes to the second layer from 12x to 4x read speed. Having more space means you can store more texture or extra content etc.. into one disk.

Arguing against this is just dumb.

sticky doja4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

True, 360 read speed does slow down to 4x sometimes, but even @4x it is still twice as fast as PS3 read speeds.

I like how they guy that posted those stats asked if he was correct afterwords. I have read in other places that the 4x CAV read is about equal to 2x CLV, but the seek time for information takes much longer in CLV from what I have read. That in itself would make it much slower, trying to get to the info on the disc, not necessarily how much info it reads in a linear fashion.

Arkham4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

The fact that you're under the impression that 2x Blu-ray speed is the same as 2x DVD speed illustrates your lack of knowledge on the subject.

Do you even know the difference between CLV and CAV?

Here's some current info on a topic that should have been laid to rest last year.

"2x Blu-ray Drive (72Mbps(9MB/s))
Single Layer (2x CLV) - Constant Linear Velocity (Same speed across entire disk)
Double Layer - Couldn't find any data but no games have been released on a double layer yet.

Entire Blu-ray Disk is read at 9MB/s.

12x DVD-Rom Drive SL (9.25MB/S-15.85MB/s(AVG ~8x(10.57MB/s) DL (4.36MB/s-10.57MB/s(AVG ~6x(7.93MB/s)
SL(DVD-5) 12x Max (5-12x Full CAV) - Constant Angular Velocity (Speed Varies from edge to edge)
DL(DVD-9) 8x Max (3.3-8x Full CAV) - Constant Angular Velocity (Speed Varies from edge to edge)

SL DVD is 1.57MB/s > SL Blu-ray
DL DVD is 1.07MB/s < SL Blu-ray

Majority of 360 games are on DVD-9."

This quote is not the final word on the subject, but the thread should open your eyes a bit. On average, the PS3 is on par with the 360, and where DL DVDs are concerned, it's usually faster.

You can read the thread from which the above quote was taken here:

Mu5afir4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )

4x read speed is not twice as fast as Blu-Ray 2x read speed. They both have different read speeds, in terms of megabits per second. Who the hell disagreed? Here are the FACTS:

4x DVD read speed is 5.28 MBs while a 2x Blu-Ray disk read speed is 9MBs.

Violater4056d ago (Edited 4056d ago )


Arkham4055d ago

If you read my post properly, you'd have seen that I said that quote wasn't the be-all and end-all of the subject, and that the rest of the the thread should give you some information you're clearly lacking.

Saying the 360's drive running at 4x is twice as fast as the PS3's Blu-ray drive is idiotic. Don't try to back-pedal on your mistakes.

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Anything but Cute4056d ago

even trying to be politically correct, he still layed the smackdown on the 360.