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Game Producer Eric Fong: "Blu-ray allows us to...not cutting corners"

In a recent interview Producer Eric Fong explains the need for Blu-ray in video games.

Eric Fong: "Blu-ray allows us to provide a high-def audio and video experience without cutting corners or inconveniencing users with disc swaps."

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Premonition3637d ago

This is one benefit of having a good amount of space, no need to cut corners or as I call it letting it all hang out lol, just put games or movie how they are suppose to look uncompressed etc.

s8anicslayer3637d ago

changing discs is so old school, this is supposed to be next gen, from the internals to the encasings of these new consoles, blue ray allows dev alot of space for for their games, plus you don't need an add on that looks like my wifes make box to watch hi def movies if you don't have a stand alone player no matter if it's hddvd or blue ray

Scrooge3637d ago

Disk swapping has not been an issue, it's purely speculation. Blue Dragon is the only game on mulitple disks, even Mass Effect fits on one disk. Saying that "no space" will be an issue in the future is reasonable, but fanboys have been saying that since 360's release in 2005, still not an issue. Blue Ray is deffinitley future proof, but so far the DVD9 hasn't officially limited the 360.

Kratos123637d ago

@Scrooge: You say the space has not limited the 360 so far. But you forget that the 360 is itself limited from doing what the PS3 does. Look at LAIR, HS, KZ2, etc etc. Do you think the 360 can handle those and if it does can it do it on one disc?? So yes the 360 is not limited by space because thats the best the 360 can do!!!

Vavoom3636d ago

I mean man, the 360 has done just fine with the disk format that it is currently using. Besides, in most cases before all of this more space bandwagon was being ridden the same game release on both systems dvd9 for the 360 and blu-ray for the PS3 has shown NO advantage for the PS3 as a matter of fact in most cases the 360 version looked better and played smoother. You guys are overplaying the hell out of this more space crap.

Although nothing could ever be wrong with having the extra space, it can also make developers lazy and complacent, they could start not to clean up their code and leave a bunch of crap in the game that would have otherwise made the game leaner and more efficient. All I see the extra space adding to the game is more cut scenes, and more addon bullsh!t that most people wouldn't want anyway.

A bigger concern for me is not how much space blu-ray vs dvd9 or HDDVD has, but WHY does everything being released on the PS3 have to always be delayed or limited to 30 FPS. That is a bigger concern for me. Why don't the developer create these games with less features on the 360 if this is a problem for them. (PS3 version has 50 levels and the 360 has 18 or something like that.)

Bottom line, when you have more space to spread out, one tends to use it; whether they need it or not, or at least feel compelled to use it. If you had an extra room in your house that you really aren't using, you will furnish it anyway wouldn't you, and who wouldn't.

All I'm trying to say is stop making the disc space issue bigger than it actually is.

Kratos123636d ago

"I mean man, the 360 has done just fine with the disk format that it is currently using. Besides, in most cases before all of this more space bandwagon was being ridden the same game release on both systems dvd9 for the 360 and blu-ray for the PS3 has shown NO advantage for the PS3 as a matter of fact in most cases the 360 version looked better and played smoother."

You are right. So far no games have showed why a BluRay is better than a conventional DVD. But then again this does not mean the games coming out in the future will not show the diff. As for games playing smoother on a 360 or running only @ 30 fps then blame the devs. The PS3 or the Blu Ray has nothing to do with that. If the PS3 first party games can run at 60 fps then there is definitely something wrong with the devs who say it cant be done.

"Although nothing could ever be wrong with having the extra space, it can also make developers lazy and complacent, they could start not to clean up their code and leave a bunch of crap in the game that would have otherwise made the game leaner and more efficient. All I see the extra space adding to the game is more cut scenes, and more addon bullsh!t that most people wouldn't want anyway."

If the devs leave out a bunch of crap and do not optimise the code then again its the fault of the devs. Going by your logic we shouldve never moved on from cartridges to a CD --> DVD --> BluRay format. With extra space and good developers you can have more levels in a game. Uncompressed video and audio.

Bottomline the PS3 looked into the future. Hell Sony always looks into the future. And sony doesnt forget the ppl who support it. Otherwise they would have deserted the 110 million PS2 owners just like MS abandoned the 20 million XBOX owners. I feel for those ppl who bought an XBOX a month or a week or a day ago only to learn that the XBOX will not have any developer support. Who knows they might come up with a new console in another couple of yrs and backstab the 10-20 million 360 users.

Scrooge3636d ago

Good point. All those games claim 50 gigs or more, but compression can also be used to make them fit on one DVD. All 360 games are compressed, so maybe those 50 gig games could fit on one DVD. Like I said, the space is still not an issue.

nasim3636d ago

already ps3 has overtaken x360 in terms of sales and things would just get bad for x360 and HD DVD camp
www.eproductwars.com/dvd

www.amazon.com

www.vgcharts.org

poor x360 and HD DVD

risk3636d ago

i will comment on one thing.

using multiple discs you make the game ever bigger then it needs to be.

lets say you use the pallet "xyz" for levels 1,2,3 that are on disc 1
now you need to use the same pallets for lets say a part of the last level 9. you would have to add that pallet into disc 2/3/4 or w.e just to get that pallet visible thus "wasting" space. where as if it were all to fit in one disc it would acctually save more space.

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beardtm3637d ago

2 discs aint that big a deal really.

warfed3637d ago

yeah it isn't the end of the world, but it's annoying and most developers won't do it they'll just cut corners...

Hatchetforce3637d ago

Within a year you will be lucky to get by with two standard DVDs . MS just reiterated that all 360 games will play on all 360s. This means no caching textures and sound on the HDD, no decompressing textures, videos, sound, etc onto the HDD. Two disks won't do it. So at what point in getting up and down off the couch will you get disgusted?

Fisher3393637d ago

Wired controllers, They seem too last gen to stay around.

Is playing with a wired controller bad? no
Is having to change discs bad? no

But both are inconviences that should no longer be an issue anymore.

Hatchetforce3637d ago

I understand what you are saying but wired controllers isn't a good analogy. A wire controller doesn't halt the experience. A wired controller doesn't lower the quality of sound and video or even cause entire game features to disappear in a puff of smoke. What we are looking at is an alteration of the game experience that goes beyond a cord and a disc swap. The problem just isn't the disk limits either. With no HDD to depend on, the problem is now amplified because textures that are normally stored in a pool and shared must now be on each and every disk. And it isn't just textures either.

The PGR4 development team opened their mouths and the 360 Damage Control Team couldn't put the genie back in the bottle. They stated day and night versions of the same maps were not possible due to insufficient space on a DVD for textures. Now Bizarre and MS will tell you this was a rumor. Wrong. It would be a rumor if people stated something was said that was not. This isn't the case.

http://www.bizarrecreations...
A member of the Bizarre Staff made the statement on their forums. Bizarre and MS have done their level best to put a positive spin on matters but the issue is out in the open (again).

As game worlds expand, as the desire grows for a seamless realistic experience, so will the capabilities of standard DVD shrink.

People need to realize how secretive dev teams can be. Once a dev team actually brings up an issue in public, it has become a major problem, not a minor nag.

Vavoom3636d ago

Just because some xbox 360 doesn't have HDs, doesn't mean no caching. A line of code could easily be added to states that if the HD is present that these things will be cached. Result, both systems can play the game, the one with the HD has a more efficient experience. This is a choice made by the person what didn't want the HD. PC games with is minimum requirements vs recommended components.

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Maddens Raiders3637d ago (Edited 3637d ago )

-- "No wait a minute...change the title. Blu-ray is a trojan horse and it sux...." --

Ha - beardtm beat me to the 2nd one!lol

cheers

WaggleLOL3637d ago

Atari 2600
NES -> More storage space than previous consoles
Genesis -> More storage space than previous consoles
N64 -> More storage space than previous consoles
Playstation -> More storage space than previous consoles
PS2 -> More storage space than previous consoles
PS3 -> More storage space than previous consoles

Dreamcast 360 -> 1 gig LESS storage space than previous gen. That is so pathetic it is funny(shouldn't laugh since developers like Rockstar are having a nightmare and delaying games because of it).

The 360 is the first console EVER to actually come out with LESS storage space than a previous gen.

So either we have every single console maker in the history of the console market and every single console developer who has made games that used that increasing storage are lazy idiots

or

Microsoft are the idiots to try to sell such a joke of a system.

25/50 gig BluRay for the win and nothing but sympathy for those developers forced to support the gimped at 7 gig Dreamcast 360. Don't worry guys, Microsoft won't be around much longer in the console market.

Marceles3637d ago

N64 came out after playstation...N64 is the first system ever since they chose to stay with the cartridge format and they lost a majority of Squaresoft games because of it. Also, the Gamecube still had less storage. Gamecube disks only hold 1.5 gb which is only 300 mb more than Dreamcast, but less than a DVD still and the gamecube came out after the PS2. Right now, the 360 and Wii are tied in disc storage since they both hold 4.7 gb of space on each game disc. Just wanted to keep the facts straight since you clearly hate the 360 when you should hate Nintendo when it comes to disc space after all these years...

johnnywit3637d ago (Edited 3637d ago )

Nintendo lost nearly all of there third party support with the N64 because of storage space. The biggest loss was when square left but they made the best game ever(FF7)on playstation. I think SNES had more storage than Genesis. Snes had the largest 16 bit game, tales of phantasia which was a whopping 48 megs!!! WOW!!!

@drewdrakes

Get a life man. I was commmenting on his post about the N64 and genesis.I didn't say one thing about PS3 or 360. I could care less about the 2.

drewdrakes3637d ago

johnnywit - Sony lost nearly all its 3rd party support with the PS3, so?

In response to this article, procedural programming reduces the amount of space required. Perhaps they wouldnt have to cut corners if they pulled their socks up and made some nice algorithms to dynamically create textures. That would in fact be productive, and efficient. It would reduce space AND could be used to reduce dev time of future games. Because if they did it correctly algorithms could be re-used.

PS-Wii-603637d ago

N64 was released a cartridge based system because Nintendo and Sony had a falling out of sorts.

In case you didn't know, Sony was developing the cd technology for what was to become Nintendo's next generation console.
For reasons that still aren't clear to this day, Nintendo and Sony broke their relations.

Sony was stuck with the technology they had invested years in.
Instead of scraping the tech and in an attempt to get a return from their R&D investment, they decided to enter the gaming market and release it for themselves under the Sony brand.

And the PlayStation was born.

Since Nintendo was falling way behind in the release of their next gen console they decided to stay with cartridges.
That marked the beginning of the end for Nintendo's console market dominance.

Not that it matters now since they are once again on the verge of taking it all back.

peksi3637d ago

You're suggesting that environments are created dynamically? Sure that's possible but coders aren't very good artists.

A big process of making such a game is when artists create the environment and make it look real. They store it in vector format with texture maps etc.

But it becomes a huge process if it would be done dynamically. You'd have to include the artists' creations into the dynamic creation process. Modeling and implementing it would be a real pain in the ass. And because you cannot cache the dynamically stored geometry to the HDD it would have to reside in the memory or would have to be created in real time. This would take a heavy toll when considering performance.

sa739173637d ago

Whilst I don't agree procedurally generated content is 100% the answer it is possible to produce exceptionally good looking game assets using this method.. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... (even better download it and play it).. There are plenty of games where sections of the content displayed on the screen could be happily populated using this method whilst still allowing for the artists to draw up the more "critical to the game" content..

Mu5afir3637d ago

I think he was talking about the respective console, not an evolution off all consoles together. Nintendo < SNES < N64 < Game Cube < Wii in terms of storage evolution, each console had more storage space then it's predecessor. However, the 360 still has the same DVD9 format it did, when it was first implemented on the original Xbox.

Primetimebt3637d ago

I wouldn't call the Nintendo & Sony deal a falling out it was more of Nintendo backstabbing. The truth is Nintendo and Sony were working on a console that would have had cartridge and CD slots for games which was too be called "Nintendo Playstation." Nintendo got nervous and felt CD were the way of the future and since the technology was produced by Sony, Sony would be getting the largest share from the console. So with out telling Sony they workout a secret deal with phillips they announced it to the world.

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BIadestarX3637d ago

define "not cutting corners"... does this mean, developers don't need to bother on optimising their code... after all it's not like blu-ray is 10X faster than standard DVD... data still need to be read from disk... compression and reducing code... it's not only good for storage but for loading and disk->memory transfer....
Game assets need to be transfer to memory before they can be use on the game... just becase blu-ray can hold 20 Maps each one of them 2GB of uncompressed game assets does not mean the console can run it... the PS3 have less available memory for developers than the xbox 360...

as a lead developer in the company I work for... "cutting corners" is something that developers better not use in any of my projects...

cutting corners = Lazy development.... that probably explains all those cheap ports the PS3 being getting....

Marceles3637d ago

No more room being on a disk means developers can't go all out on a game. If anything cutting corners = disappointed developers who have more ideas for a game but they can't be fulfilled because a lack of, in this case, disc space and hi def audio and video capabilities. Some developers are just saying "oh well we'll make it do what we can with what we have", but now some devs are starting to want the challenge to create a bigger game and not settle for less

SofaKingReetodded3637d ago

so how many layers and passovers of code do you force into the dev cycle before you start running out of money? Time better spent on just developing game content than thinking of ways to squeeze onto 9 yr old tech.

I smell HUGE bs here.

Mu5afir3637d ago

Cutting corners means, PGR not being able to have a new set of texture for night effects. So, they had to make "dawn" and dark weather effects to cover up the limitations.