Submitted by Anon1974 1904d ago | article

Can Kinect save the Xbox 360?

The Xbox 360 is in trouble.

Despite the brave face put on by Microsoft employees such as Aaron Greenberg as they read their PR scripts, Microsoft’s flagship gaming console has been a weight around the neck of the Entertainment and Devices division since shareholders could shake a fist at them. Billions lost on the original Xbox, recent blunders such as the mishandled Zune, the Xbox 360 hardware fiasco and subsequent billion dollar loss on a warranty program that never addressed the underlying problem, and the most recent victim to be thrown under the bus, the Kin phone, Microsoft’s Entertainment and Devices division has been a colossal disappointment to shareholders which recently resulted in the firing of multiple high level execs. But even though the division is responsible for multiple products the primary source of revenue lies with the Xbox 360 gaming platform, and 360 sales have consistently struggled to maintain positive sales growth. (Casual games, Industry, Kinect, Microsoft, Xbox 360)

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NAGNEWS  +   1904d ago
maybe, maybe not, who knows.

In my opinion i think you will get bored after few weeks.
#1 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(26) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
Anon1974  +   1904d ago
The question is, will anyone actually get a chance to read this article and consider it's valid points before it's buried under a tonne of "Lame! This is just flamebait! How dare anyone take a serious look at the games industry and cast a factual yet critical eye on Microsoft!" comments?

I encourage everyone to actually read the article, consider what it's saying and the points it raises and then attempt to discuss the matter rationally. There's no reason the forums on every article need to devolve into a 3rd grade playground.

Edit: I see already people who obviously haven't read the article are weighing in. How about commenting on or offering reasons why you disagree with the article instead of simply bashing? What is it you disagree with, and why? Can you refute any of the arguments made, or is there something wrong with the author's logic?
#1.1 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(26) | Disagree(25) | Report | Reply
N4PS3G  +   1904d ago | Well said
None of the consoles is in trouble right now, neither the PS3, 360 or Wii. All of them are doing great respectively in their stronger areas and will sell like hot cakes this holidays and so on.

PS3 is selling better than ever before and Move will help them improve. Upcoming software is strong and big and price cut will come sooner or later in 2011 likely.

360 is selling better than before and Kinect will broaden the audience. New Slim, Arcade, Reach Console will boost sales and big name titles coming this holidays. Go see the charts, doing great and price cut likely also in 2011.

Wii..doing a bit worse than before but still superior and with upcoming huge titles like: Zelda, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Metroid etc etc..it will continue on top.

I don't need to enter in any "deeper" discussion because the fact that you think a console is in "Trouble" ... means you don't know $hit what's going on. None of them are in trouble, the only "trouble" scenario is in your troubled mind.
Strange_Evil  +   1904d ago
Wow N4PS3G, see that was nice, well said and non flaimbait.... So Bubbles for that.. Agree with what you said, all 3 have a huge fanbase, all 3 have good games lined up. So can't we just stop this BS for once.
#1.1.2 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(7) | Report
TotalPS3Fanboy  +   1904d ago
Very well researched article
As an unbiased total PS3 fanboy, I agree 100% with the author. Sometimes, I just gotta put on my PS3 fanboy goggle, so I can have an unbiased analysis of the 360 and Microsoft's gaming division without having it tainted by 360 gamers' loyalty for Microsoft.
GWAVE  +   1904d ago
As 4N4PS3G said, no console is in trouble right now.

Yeah, we can all take our sides and say who we think is in decline and who is hitting their stride, but at the end of the day, nobody is leaving the market this week or anything.
Agent-86  +   1904d ago
@darkride66, its amazing how you've gotten so many disagrees just for stating the obvious and to just read the article. Its actually a very well thought out and researched article. Fanboys here are truly amazing. Say anything truthful about either console and a flame war breaks out.
RageAgainstTheMShine  +   1904d ago
in fact the day they decided to get 3DV camera Microsoft already started to destroy its Xbox Division.
Xbox 360 is in life support now. It was designed to be a 4-5 year console and now they are trying to depend on an add-on that instead of surpassing the PS3 they went backwards into being a Wii. Very sad indeed. People just can't see it. Now I start to pity and feel sorry at M$ but they brought this upon themselves.
#1.1.6 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(9) | Report
darthv72  +   1904d ago
I read the article and while it was well thought out I am just curious. Is the animosity towards MS and the 360 deliberate or by choice?

Good article though. The negative journalistic vibe is what didnt make sense. Your opinion is noted and respect to you for sharing.
#1.1.7 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(3) | Report
rroded  +   1904d ago
read it mostly makes a valid point
but i doubt that ms is gonna let it go jus like that with all the money they've put into it n the revenue its pulling in. sure their in the red still but after the hardware issue n all the money theyve put into hype its to b expected

im sure they know that they are close to the break even point n its all black after that...

its the same thing sony's doing witht he ps3 take a loss on the hardware make it back when its cheaper ta make n on the software royalties...

sure rrod cost em a fortune n paying for all that hype n 'exclusive' stuff must cost em but the machine is cheaper ta make than sony's n they make lots of cash on live...
#1.1.8 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report
FragMnTagM  +   1904d ago
If the 360 was in trouble, wouldn't the RROD issue have finished it off by now? I understand your points and respect them even if I disagree. But this sounds a hell of a lot like the stupid "Sony is doomed" articles that floated around here for a while.

I highly doubt that investors are retarded. They know Reach is right around the corner, and Gears 3. I mean c'mon you would have to be totally retarded to think that Reach and Gears are not going to help the sales of the XBOX.

Also, it has seen steady growth since the redesigned hardware came out. The two Wal-Marts and Gamestop as well as Best Buy and Toys R Us have been sold out of them since it launched around here. The closest one I found after they came in was in some small town 75 miles away from here.

Even if you cannot stand Kinect, it is a no brainer that it is going to sell well. If it is one thing MS does right, it is marketing. Sony has shown some marketing muscle recently but they still have a little ways to go to catch up to MS marketing skill.

How's that for not being a fanboy and discussing my points?

PS: Enjoy your 2nd bubble from me today GWAVE, it is good to see you not acting like a fanboy. Intelligent discussions FTW!
stuna1  +   1904d ago
I agree with what you're saying, conversations do tend to devolve in chaos.
OT: This article does bring up sume interesting points, but in realty anyone that knows anything about businesses know that they are divided into divisions that are tasked with handling certain aspects in the company as a whole, but what I'm getting at is those divisions have a certain amount of funds allocated to them. And when one division is under funded usually fat is trimmed from other areas of the company to stabilise the under funded sector. But in microsoft case I think that they have R&D going on in too many divisions that are not meeting the expectations of the company as a whole. Therefore drawing resources from other areas of the company that might not be able to spare them.
iceman06  +   1903d ago
I have read it. I have thought about it. I can see some really important points. The first being that the shareholders have NOT been happy for a while with the games division. Sure, the console is selling well and game sell well...but does that recoup the losses that the division has seen from excessive R&D on products that have not met expectations. Billions were spent to get into the industry. More was spent to develop the 360. What about HD DVD? That must have cost some money. Of course the warranty was expensive (estimates are anywhere from 2-3 billion by the time all early gen consoles are addressed). This wasn't addressing the CONSOLE...it was addressing the health of the console in relation to the business. Sony is in a similar space with the PS3, since they are just now seeing some actual profit from their console after years of losses per console. Both companies have a large cache of money to fight the battles, but the shareholders can't be happy, nor should they, with wasted money and squandered opportunities. Nintendo is lucky to have the gameboy/DS line, because the revenue from that could overcome the beating they took with the Gamecube. Plus, they released a low cost, high reward system with the Wii. Business wise, they are probably in the best spot as we speak. All in all, none of the consoles are in danger. However, because of the global recession and unforeseen difficulties and challenges the business aspects of Sony and MS have taken a hit. It's not a hit that they can't come back from. But, when you are talking about shareholders and money...any hit hurts.
Natsu X FairyTail  +   1904d ago
xbox will be fine. fable 3 , Gears 3 , Halo Reach are right around the corner. That'll show em!
Imperator  +   1904d ago
Fable III is multiplat and Gears 3 isn't "around the corner", it's more than half a year away. Halo Reach is pretty much all that's coming for the 360. Halo 3 Sold 10 million copies and it's my opinion that anyone who wanted Halo already has a 360 so reach won't be that big of a system seller.
Shadow Flare  +   1904d ago
i heard similar things when halo 3, fable 2 and gears 2 came out. Wasn't Alan Wake supposed to be a massive system seller too? Those games you mentioned won't do squat for hardware sales since fans of those games already have 360's
GusBricker  +   1904d ago
Stop with the PC = multiplatform, please...
Not all of us have or can afford super rigs to play that stuff.

It's just ridiculous.
Natsu X FairyTail  +   1904d ago

When Gears2 and halo3 came out Xbox360 had great sales. and was 1st in the hardware sales for several weeks. Yall just mad
#1.2.4 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(2) | Report
kneon  +   1903d ago
But none of these are likely to pull in any significant numbers of new customers, and new customers is what is most important. Kinect has a chance to expand the customer base, but it also has a good chance of failing miserably at that. It could sell 20 million units but if 90+% of that is to existing customers then it's failed at it's primary goal.
bigwheelstuntshow   1904d ago | Spam
lelo2play  +   1904d ago
"Can Kinect save the Xbox 360?"

Save from what???

The xbox 360 (hardware, software, online, accessories) after the RROD hardware problems... has been doing fine. For a few years now it has been turning a profit to Microsoft (even with the RROD problems)... contrary to other products from the Entertainment and Devices division.
#1.4 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
MRJENKINS  +   1904d ago
recent sales figures tells a different story
360Defender  +   1904d ago
Yeah its increasing its lead on the PS3 worldwide... how terrible.
EVILDEAD360  +   1904d ago | Well said
The Darkride agenda site
How dare anyone take a serious look at the games industry and cast a factual yet critical eye on Microsoft!" comments?

LMAO @ this statement..

Darkride666 is not fooling anyone anymore...

Everyone has a right to be critical of ANY company. The difference is you have chosen one and this is your website to push that agenda.

People don't even have to look at your history to know that you were in EVERY Xbox 360 article repeating your last article (which was repeated on the N4G.com blog) over and over and over...

You've repeated it ad nauseum..you own a 360 and refuse to get Live..but you put your account out there to show you played all of 3 games..or you'll go the whole I had 8 RROD..either way you never play the system..and barely did

It's ok to prefer the PS3..there are a whole lot of PS3 owners on N4G.com who do as well. But they arent obsessed by repeating that the 360 sold less each quarter for the last x quarters..

LOL..The funny part was when they did sell more..you STILL mentioned it..

So what we have is another fan blogger who doubled as a troll on the N4G..

The funny part is if someone wrote a blog that said 'Will MOVE save the PS3' you would be all over it..repeating 360 numbers..

On topic..360S + Halo Reach + Kinect'd bundle doing big numbers this holiday..the 360 will have it's best hoiday since it did 6 Million in one quarter.

So while Darkride and the other haters do the 'please don't sell' rain dance..the system will continue to sell

jambabie69  +   1904d ago
well said have a bubble
glad that others can see how darkride really is/ has been on n4g. and the other day i lmao at his "complaint" more like whining over what a mod did and said to him.

whoever that moderator was was 100% dead on when they wrote that to him.
darthv72  +   1904d ago
wow, that truly was....evil. and well spoken.

There are a bunch of closet 360 fans just as there are closet ps3 fans. Not sure what these gamers are hiding from but they obviously make their choice to support what system they feel is best.

I was like that when it was just sega and nintendo. While I liked nintendo, it was sega all the way for me. While I like sony, I like the 360 more. It is my choice and I wont ridicule others for their choice and I ask that they respectfully dont do it to me.

I mean, it isnt really that hard to just let someone else have their own point of view. But when their point of view is being thrown in your face at some point you just have to call them on it.

Yes, I play 360 more than ps3 and I like the ps3 more than the wii but I play them all. I support this industry from all sides. Always have since pong.
EVILDEAD360  +   1904d ago
@ Jam..even the mods are talking? hook us up with the link..thx 4 the bubble..and honestly this wasn't about slamming this guy..but like darth said the guy continues to throw rocks from a glass house and pretends real gamers don't notice..

@ darthv72..

Salutes anyone who talks about sega and brings up Pong..I miss when everyone who gamed..just loved to game..but yeah...I own every system..but I loooved Sega back in the day.

I even owned the failed systems plus the add-ons..32X and Sega CD..

he funny thing is I remember when Sony released Playstation..the biggest mags like EGM used to hate on it..because it was trying to compete with Nintendo...

Anyways..I salute the real gamers on the site..because they are the ones that truly keep our hobby alive..

TROLL EATER  +   1904d ago
save? ahah more like put it on steroids. oh wait halo reach is doin dat.
J-Smith  +   1904d ago
no nothing will save the xbox360
PITTBULL83  +   1904d ago
@ J-Smith
That's right because microsoft isn't manufacturing the XBOX 360 anymore, just the XBOX 360S models.

kevnb  +   1904d ago
i actually think kinect can kill xbox 360
financially speaking anyway.
and on pc is multiplatform, it isnt that expensive to turn the pc you already have into a gaming machine instead. Might take a bit of reading, or a friend who knows something about hardware, but its viable and not super expensive.
#1.9 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
dizzleK  +   1904d ago
if the 360 is in trouble then the ps3 is on life-support. i'm tired of doom&gloom.
GOTY 2007  +   1904d ago
kevnb  +   1904d ago
to be honest the problem is that they share the exact same market and have 95% of the same games. Ive never seen two more identical consoles, one has to change or one console maker has to leave.
Omega4  +   1904d ago
360 is fine, it doesn't even need Kinect to be successful. But if Kinect is successful then Wii best watch out......
eagle21  +   1904d ago
Why would Nintendo need to watch out? 31,000,000 lead on Microsoft. Are you saying Kinect would close that gap in a year? LMAO. 2 years? LMAO. Maybe 3?...LMAO. :)
#3.1 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
bringitson   1904d ago | Spam
Bigpappy  +   1904d ago
Will someone shut this bring guy up
Now Pachter is all analysts. What a tool
bringitson   1904d ago | Spam
jony_dols  +   1904d ago
Microsoft And Sony make money from game sales.
Most Wii's purchased will never play any other games than the shovelware that it was shipped with it. Xbox and PS3 games give a sizeable percentage of their game sales to MS & Sony. Also MS benefit from Xbox Live while Sony benefits from Blu-ray sales. Nintendo's humongous profitability is the most exaggerated myth of this generation
ClownBelt  +   1904d ago
The delusion continues...Lmao
mrv321  +   1904d ago
Nintendo are quivering in their trousers made out of gold leaf, they are going to drive home in their Red Morgan cleaned with the tears of children.
Shadow Flare   1904d ago | Immature | show
SupaGamer  +   1904d ago
It will boost sales in the short run but if it doesn't work well, it could spell trouble for the industry.
table  +   1904d ago
I just wonder, if kinect fails could microsoft actually leave the industry altogether leaving the door open for Sega to return, or possibly Apple. I think when it comes down to it however, microsoft all in all has been positive for the games industry despite me not agreeing with online fees and a lack of game studios.
#5 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
trounbyfire  +   1904d ago
another microsoft article
YOU can NOT be serious......come they don't even have new news
GusBricker  +   1904d ago
How is the 360 in trouble?

They make over a billion a year just from Xbox Live.

I wish I HAD that trouble!
Ri0tSquad  +   1904d ago
Kinect and Move
360 & PS3 would of been fine without them.
Nate-Dog  +   1904d ago
I know it's had it's problems but I don't think the X360 needs saving, it'll do fine. But actually on-topic, no I don't think the Kinect will save it if it needs doing, it's quite pricey and doesn't look extremely impressive to me.
aCHU  +   1904d ago
hmmm allow me ..
Short answer NO,long answer HELL NO! ..
dont ask me why,but i just believe that.
Convas  +   1904d ago
An opinion is not worth anything unless it can be explained.
OSU_Gamer  +   1904d ago
At this point I don't think the xbox needs saving, but if it did I would say hell no.
Honest_gamer  +   1904d ago
i didnt think it needed saved :S
a08andan  +   1904d ago
I think neither Microsoft or Sony will "fail" with their new controllers
I think that neither company will be endangered. They will both do good with their new motion controllers! :)

I just made a blog post about Kinect and Move, please read if you like!


Go Microsoft and go Sony :)
lugia 4000  +   1904d ago
Halo Reach is
maniacmayhem  +   1904d ago
MS and Sony have sooooo much money that neither consoles are ever truly in trouble.

Ditto for Nintendo
dragonelite  +   1904d ago
You forget that those companies work in division.
Microsoft as a whole has made profits lost a lot in the entertainment division but the 360 has kept those loses to a minimum. Sony on the other hand has made some big loses this from the last few reports. But if the division makes loses then im pretty sure microsoft and sony will ditch those division or at least clean up management.

Hope we get someone like Jobs as Ceo for ms let them be innovative the courier could have been a hit if they released it just look at the ipad which in my eyes is a overpriced piece of shit but people still buy it.
Microsoft invents a lot of stuff but instead of releaseing it they back it up and when the competition has a new product similar to ms product they are to late. Balmer kept microsoft growth to a minimum. But he had passion only not creativity.

I see it more like ms are suit while apple are hipsters(hippies)/alt folks.
Apple innovates and was top or at least went above microsoft at the stock market some time ago in one of those tech indexes.

could be wrong as fuck, economy was fun at school but didn't get any stockmarket lessons :P
jony_dols  +   1904d ago
How much money has rrod'ed xbox's cost Microsoft?
I've heard allot of crap over the years about it from both sides of fanboys, but how much hurt financially has it actually cost MS??
360Defender  +   1904d ago
Well considering they made over 4 billion in the last quarter alone in profit and RRoD has cost them arrox 1.5 billion over the life of the system, I would say not much.
DevastationEve  +   1904d ago
They "claimed" a billion in losses, but in all honesty the money really didn't leave their pockets. The costs of refurbishing or replacing consoles really isn't all that much.
Quadrix  +   1904d ago
No, but it will put it out of its misery.
AliTheBrit19  +   1904d ago
Umm, I think you will find that the Xbox 360 is not in trouble, and Xbox as a console brand is going no where anytime soon

No matter how much little fanboy brats want it to happen.
BlackTar187  +   1904d ago
Why does it need saving?
Sorry but this is kind of ridiculous. As gamer we should play all games dont let fake allegiance keep you from playing gems of any system.

sorry off topic abit but those are my 2 cents.
alldayeveryday   1904d ago | Spam
Nickster800  +   1904d ago
One word,
DevastationEve  +   1904d ago
I don't know if Xbox 360 is in need of saving, but Kinect will surely only add to the awesome brand.
360Defender  +   1904d ago
Stop spreading FUD Darkride
You quote issues with Zune, and Kin and talk about shareholder dismay. Here is news, I actually do own stock on MS, plenty of it. I live in the Puget Sound area and am very well versed on the company finacially. I do not have the slightest concern about my monetary investment into MS, but thank you so much for worrying about me. If anything you may wish to be concerned for Sony shareholders who have endured all encompassing company losses, billions lost on the gaming division along with divisions sold or closed. So if you are looking at this solely from a investor poin of view, its Sony that needs saving, Not MS.
Dannehkins  +   1904d ago
A very interesting article. It raises some serious points that have occurred in the Xbox 360 history. Although, nobody can predict the future. The market seems to change and response in different ways and can quickly turn against someone or in someone's' favour. Let's not forget, even though Microsoft owns so much software, Apple are still doing incredible well against them.

That was not to spite Microsoft in anyway, but it was merely an example of how a market can react despite a company's influence on the market. I think we will all know the answer possibly next year when we have had chance to analyse Kinect's advancements in the market.
slugg  +   1904d ago
It points out in the article that the 360 business is the only part of the entertainment and devices division that DOES make money. With the new 360s selling like hotcakes, Fable 3 and Reach out before the end of the year and Gears 3 in the spring, MS's 360 business is sitting pretty good. People who claim that Fable, Halo, and GoW aren't system-sellers-- so what? Thats what Kinect is for. Look at the pre-orders for it-- people will bye the new xbox/kinect bundle for christmas like it was a new system. It almost is. The Halos and Call of Duties will continue to cater to the hardcore, Kinect can (and will) bring in new system sales and a whole new audience.
#25 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
-MD-  +   1904d ago
The 360 needs saving? Last I checked sales were through the roof and its 2 biggest exclusives are less than a year away.
Halo3 MLG Pro  +   1904d ago
LOL @ insecure sony fanboys. You know the 360 is dominating when you have a sony fanboy that has a few extra dollars and way to much time to create a website just for the purpose of bashing the 360. LMAO!

What a loser. Thanks for giving us the proof that the sony fanboys are the dumbest around. :)

You do realize that the ps3 has lost more $$$ than the original Xbox, right?
#27 (Edited 1904d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
DigitalRaptor  +   1904d ago
Yep this is total proof. One person is all that is needed for that. There aren't any other dedicated PS3-bashing fanboys out there, are there?


Did you even read the article???

So the PS3 has lost more than original Xbox... where is your source? what is the point of your argument?

The PS3 has been doing better than the 360 for months and months and is still doing great in terms of success and games. How is 360 dominating? The Wii is tens of millions ahead of the 360 in sales, whilst the PS3 is only 5-6 million behind the 360, and considering the year ahead launch, it's not much to talk about.

The only reason you think Sony fanboys are dumb is because seemingly, they use logic and good reasoning behind their points and that scares you out of making a good response.
ranmafandude  +   1904d ago
i think the 360's doing pretty good but the ps3 has really caught out alot. the momentum and attention at this point is on the ps3 until ms or nintendo can come out with something really big.
Skadoosh  +   1904d ago
Funny thing about the internet is that any child can create a site.
qiqi72   1904d ago | Spam
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