Top
360°

Guerrilla cuts Killzone pad lag

Digital Foundry writes: Guerrilla Games is promising tighter, more responsive controls for the forthcoming Killzone 3.

Writing on the official Killzone site, Guerrilla Game Director Mathijs de Jonge described the difficult decisions the team took in addressing this highly contentious issue. On the one hand, the response from the controls was the subject of much criticism from many gamers. On the other, the sensation of weight and inertia was one of the defining features of the game's primary handshake with the player.

Read Full Story >>
eurogamer.net
The story is too old to be commented.
greenisgood2985d ago

And now the hardcore killzone fans will complain on changing it.
No matter what you can't satisfy everone.

But I'm personally happy, I was turned offby the weighty feeling like some of the other players.

Hotel_Moscow2985d ago

i say bring it on controls are just controls it all comes down to whether you can adapt or not true gamer after a while of playing dont think about controls it just hapens naturally

im more worried about gameplay mechanics and how the guns will work than the controls

Oner2985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

WOOOT! I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG! this article confirms EVERYTHING that I sad about KZ2 back then and even more recently. THERE WAS CONTROLLER INPUT LAG. PERIOD.

It had NOTHING to do with "weight". I noticed it IMMEDIATELY when the game launched and after the update it fixed it BUT still had the "weight" designed into the game.

INPUT LAG is not the same as WEIGHT! That is what most everyone was confused about...even recently (just 12 days ago) I posted this ~

"...Killzone 2 definitely had input lag. But that has since been addressed. The "feeling" of weight was NOT lag, they were 2 separate things that people confused. The best way to prove this is how after they fixed the MINOR input delay issue the game STILL had weight to it's "feel" ~ thus 2 separate things..."

right here on N4G ~ http://n4g.com/comments/red... and I took SOOOO much heat back then when KZ2 released but now am vindicated. Sorry to the doubters and "expert 1337 players" out there who attacked my skills...but you were wrong! Because my skills were so good I (and others) perceived/felt something you could not.

Edit: Disagree all you want but the truth is right there in BLACK & WHITE in the words of GG themselves ~

"Mathijs wrote. "Accuracy and responsiveness consistently came up as the top issues. At the same time, a lot of players were saying they loved the weighty feel."

And as well by Digital Foundry ~

"Back in February, Digital Foundry took possession of a DualShock 3 controller adapted by legendary modsmith Benjamin Heckendorn. Connected to an LED monitor board, it allowed us to measure the latency between button press and on-screen action, the so-called input or controller lag.

Our result? The simple act of firing a pistol (something you wouldn't expect to have much heft or inertia) took 150ms from button press to muzzle-flash on-screen. In more challenging scenes, with the game dropping frames, latency was even higher. In comparison, most other first-person shooters running at 30FPS tend to weigh in around 100ms to 133ms max, while 60FPS titles like Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare can achieve a very respectable 66ms response in optimum conditions."

n4gno2985d ago

Oner = cez of rage.

always repeating this non sens, just bad player and troll point of view.

KZ2 controls was just perfects for skilled players, and win "best competitive fps GOTY" from gamespot. (when they, [email protected], mesured input lag, it was before the differents patchs, and they were trying to downplay the best fps to date, with huge scores all around the planet, after that, no problem at hall, it's just more difficult to aim without auto-aim, and more difficult to kill when people can straff like in every real fps (killzone, and some others PC fps)

carreirabr2985d ago

Lag when using a aiming and shooting with a snipping rifle = ZERO.

End of story.

DF just sucks. They just pretend to be very technical and just end with the same mumbo jumbo. They dont have access to any game dev debugging tools, just keep doing the same lame video statiscs over and over again.

-Alpha2985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

Killzone doesn't require "more" skill for being harder to control. By that logic Lair required lots of skill.

People have been making far too many excuses ranging from "guns have weight" to "It requires more skill".

The fact that the pistol controls equally to the rocket launcher disproves the initial theory.

Killzone did have a noticeable input lag, and though it was done purposely it was simply annoying for everybody. Note that this was before the patch as the patch fixed the annoying pre-patch controls.

It would ruin CQC and made meleeing a pain. It was a frustrating experience, but one that I eventually got used to, especially after the patch. Sorry, but there is nothing realistic about making the controller respond slower than usual. I remember how painful sniping was when zoomed in. Then there was CQC where if you aimed too far you would over-accelerate. It made the game silly when people would dance in circles for a kill, there isn't anything realistic about that. A game can manage to feel heavy and weighty without doing what GG did. Unfortunately some fans will deny this to the end. GG is human, they make mistakes, and I believe they could have went about this a different way. They have done so with K3 seemingly, and have shown that progress with K2 post-patch.

Tighter controls will create tighter gameplay. It wont kill skill, skill is relatively in the hands of the players and nature of the game. A game doesn't lack skill for being twitchy like COD or gain more skill for playing like Killzone does. They both require a certain set of skills and players will either adapt and learn how to play with it or suffer at the wrath of better players.

Killzone can achieve the feel it has with tighter controls and GG realizes this, hence the reason they emphasize the tweak. It's coming from GG's own mouth, they want to make the game more appealing, and that doesn't make the game require less skill at all.

commodore642985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

I posted some prior comments to the effect that KZ2 has 150ms input lag and was roasted alive by the angry SDF.

http://n4g.com/news/547643/...
http://n4g.com/news/549640/...
http://n4g.com/news/558421/...

Some people argued that this lag was deliberate and was fixed by a patch, yet detailed analysis by DF showed this to be a dubious claim.
Some people loved the 'weight', most hated it.
The fact remained, there was 150+ms lag between controller input and result on screen.
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

Funny, how this new article once again proves that I was exactly right.
KZ2 does indeed have 150+ms of input lag.
That figure does not even include display lag, in most cases.

Some nasty people were accusing me of spreading lies and disinformation.
Hope this shuts them up.

No wait. Who am I kidding.
They will arrive to call me a liar and 360 fanboy and tell me why the KZ2 input lag facts must be wrong since they don't line up with their fanboy agenda.

3...2...1...

dantesparda2985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

Fucking sellouts (GG). I liked KZ2's controls, they were fine and actually had a "feel" to them. And its like Holy Moscow said, "it all comes down to whether you can adapt or not true gamer after a while of playing dont think about controls it just hapens naturally".

So.....,
To all the people that are bitching and whining about lag. I hope to hear all of youse bitching and moaning about Kinects (sucky name btw) lag.

dantesparda2985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

double post

Ju2984d ago

That's just such a BS.

Read what GG actually said. They were analyzing the input "behavior".

This includes far more than a simplistic "but it's the input lag".

A big part of the "weight" of the controls come from how aiming and shooting is implemented. It ties into the animation system. That said, it simply is accurate in the way how the game "simulates" moving your arm and pull the trigger.

GG did not take shortcuts to get a CoD type input system; which has full arcade style aiming without any form of simulation going on at all. Everything is based on a physical model in KZ2.

What they've done is, they started analyzing the whole model. Trying to figure out, where the animation system adds lag, how the input can be optimized.

In their conclusion they are making the controls tighter, optimizing the animation (aiming sequence) and balance it for more accuracy.

No where in the whole argument, they simplify this into "we take our 33ms frame delay and make sure you can hit a target within that window and we'll totally ignore how we KZ2 used that sequence in the past".

So, no, you guys above simplify this into "but I told you so, there is lag". BS. It still will be there. It won't take out what's in KZ2 just to satisfy your twitchy finger needs. Like with every first generation implementation, there was criticism. And this will be addressed and tuned further in the next version of the game.

Will-UK2984d ago

Why GG i dont want another cod game people love generic shooters liked the killzone 2 controls n feel made it unique

Oner2984d ago (Edited 2984d ago )

@ n4gno ~ Me? cez of rage? AHAHAHAHA!!!! You couldn't be ANYMORE dead wrong! Go read through my post history and PM me so you can apologize when you see the truth...you know what F that, I'm gonna PM you right now.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 2984d ago
tdrules2985d ago

you aren't hardcore if you like input lag

Nykamari2985d ago

You're not HARDCORE if you can't ADAPT!! ;)

MiamiACR2985d ago

Adapt to a glaring gameplay flaw? Now that's hardcore.

DORMIN2985d ago

"Right now it's still a work in progress," Mathijs explained. "But we're definitely getting there. We've recalibrated the dead zone to be more responsive and significantly reduced the input lag, resulting in far better accuracy. Best of all, we've managed to retain that sense of weight that set Killzone 2 apart from other shooters. I can't wait for people to try it out."

Can't wait to try it out! XD

popup2985d ago

I don't really think anyone is 'Hardcore' when you consider our own lag and just how quick 150ms is..

http://www.humanbenchmark.c...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2985d ago
ALFAxD_CENTAURO2985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

I like to Pwn people like greenisgood. For sure they don't know how to play, no skills that's all.

Now with K3, I will PWN them with Move controller, and with more style, on 3D!

No FanS Land2985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

yeah! Imagine what would happen with input lag and PsMove?

&?%$# there's lag with the move on the screen! Now haters would scream LAG all over the psmove.

I think It's a better choice they want to keep everyone together during an online match wether you're playing with DS3 or Move. (wouldn't that be shitty if only Ds3 players had lag?)

EDIT: Sorry but I fail to see how you Pwnd greenisgood.

coolasj2985d ago

You know. People might be inclined to agree with you more if you didn't use Caps so much.

Greywulf2985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

No morons, Half you trolls bashed the game from its underwhelming visuals, to its boring gameplay. On top of that all of you cried that it was hard to play compared to Call Of Duty. AKA a TWITCH SHOOTER. People were able to enjoy KZ2 perfectly fine, but there are more idiots in the world than non-idiots.

The idiots win in this case. Like the same idiots voted for George Bush twice. Being in the popular majority isn't always what is important.

I, like most PS3 owners, had absolutely 0 issues with Killzone2. It took a moment to adjust to it, then that was it. The ridalin addicted ADD children couldn't take not rushing and shooting everything in sight while strafing jumping and ducking with no problem with readjusting a gun/weight/anything. Which is the main problem, the comparison.

KZ2 had personality from every part of the game. The Gameplay, The visuals, the sheer scale of the battles, the controls.

Now people will have to be stuck with just Amazing gameplay, visuals that are impossible on any other console, along with scale of dynamics/lighting/a.i/action thats second to none, and different controls.

Boo.

hoo.

"On the other, the sensation of weight and inertia was one of the defining features of the game's primary handshake with the player"

Yep. Thats what was unique about kz2.

Chuk_Chuk2985d ago

Never noticed any Lag in this game, before and after the patch. And i could kick hig ass just as good. I hope they don't turn it arcady TBH.

TheAntiFanboy2985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

Here's a fun fact for all you brilliant people out there.

A pistol does not take a fifth of a second after the trigger is pulled to spit out a bullet. That is not weight. That is not inertia. That is just stupid. And anyone who thinks that is "realistic" has got to either be kidding themselves or drinking Sony Kool-Aid, then pissing it out into a jar labeled "Manna of Life" for later consumption.

If skill can overcome all control design difficulty, how about I give you an NES controller and demand you play Killzone with it. Guess what? It doesn't fucking work! It's a goddamn crutch. I'm asking the unreasonable of you guys. ANY control scheme that is INTENTIONALLY designed to make the game MORE DIFFICULT is A CRUTCH, an ARTIFICIAL method of increasing the difficulty, and if you had the choice, you would pick the PS3 controller any day. Why? Because it's EASIER TO CONTROL. A TRUE game would make the response 1:1. They'd make it so that the game responds as quickly as the player does. And if that fails, then it's the game's fault for being retarded, not the player's fault for not adapting.

Yet somehow, I feel as if you'd DO IT if Guerilla Games or Sony forced you to. Just like you are now. You're putting up with their bullshit just because they're your favorite company. And if they told you to pick up a NES controller and play Killzone with it, you'd fucking do it because you're loyal like the zealots you are.

The speed at which the brain sends messages to your body and back is anywhere between 2 to 200 miles per hour. To your muscles, it is always approximately 110 mph. That's approximately 160 kph, which is approximately 160,000 meters per hour. There are 3,600 seconds in an hour. Divide 160,000 meters by 3,600 seconds and you get 44, which is how many meters a neural message travels in a second. The average human is 1.5 meters tall. 1.5m is 3% of 44. What this means is that a neural message travels through the body in 3% of the time it takes to travel 44 meters in a second. 3% of one second is 30 milliseconds.

It takes thirty milliseconds for the brain to send a message to any muscle in the body and have that muscle act.

It takes one hundred and fifty milliseconds for Killzone 2 to recognize that a button is being pressed on the DualShock 3.

THIS.
IS NOT.
REALISTIC.

I dare anyone who disagrees with me to argue their case. Point by point. And at the same time explain to me why it makes perfect sense for it to take a fifth of a second for a bullet to spit out of a gun barrel.

Ju2984d ago

What you say only includes sending a signal in just one way. That is, when your brain has decided it actually wants to send the signal (assuming your numbers are correct).

Before that happens, the brain has to receive the input (usually visual). Then it has to process this information, aim, make a decision to pull the trigger and than actually pull the trigger.

Now, you seam to be educated. If you can find timing for all that, please come back and we talk about it again.

This is why the average reaction time is way above those 30ms. Usually between 100-200ms.

2985d ago
OneSneakyMofo2984d ago

Most of these guys who are hating are either 1. Noobtube MW2 fantards that are too casual for Killzone 2. Xbox fanboys that can't play Killzone 3

I hope the controls are still heavy. That was one of the best aspects of Killzone 2.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 2984d ago
Cevapi882985d ago

they will complain?? LMFAO....at least we know the game will cater to all gamers and will give options to all players on how they want to experience the game

inception1232985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

yeah now all the cod and halo retards can ruin kz3 like they do those games.

rdgneoz32985d ago

I liked the feel of weight when playing it, separated it from COD or Halo. Weapons do have weight, they aren't light as a feather...

Reminds me of http://www.msxbox-world.com... , "Cheetah (incredibly fast cat)- someone's been sitting at the barracks practising through rain or shine how to swap an SMG for a shotgun in less than 1 second"

@inception123 Knowning GG, you won't have KZ3 being hacked any time soon, at least one little ray of hope.

inception1232985d ago

there won't be hacks maybe but you will still get the cod campers and halo cry babies.

Fanb0y2985d ago

For all you 'weight' lovers...

What are your opinions on Battlefield Bad Company 2's responsiveness?

MysticStrummer2985d ago

Catering to the CoD-heads is not catering to all gamers. It's catering to the masses, AKA the lowest common denominator. It's too bad. There are already plenty of shooters like that around. @tdrules - There's nothing hardcore about CoD-style games. They are too common to be hardcore. Games made to appeal to the masses are never hardcore.

thebudgetgamer2985d ago

they got rid of the things people complained about and the same people bitched that it wasn't enough like the first game.

alphakennybody2985d ago

no matter what they do, people just loves to complain. Its sad world we live in unfortunately.

madjedi2985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

I loved the first resistance, the second lost the lone survivor/survival horror creeping atmosphere and the gritty and dirty levels that made the first on so good.

The removal of the weapon wheel was a dumbass idea, if i wanted to be forced to choose to weapons i would have played a generic fps, thats like a rachet game with 2 weapons.

Now i loved the hell out of the coop missions, i would have bought coop maps if they would have released some. Take the look and feel of the first game, keep and expand on the coop missions and level of details on part 2, bring back the weapon wheel with some more interesting weapons like the first one a r3 will be gold to me.

Btw did anyone miss the original alpha grims, the tall fast lanky bastards and split skulls from the first one. the monsters in the first one seemed cooler/more deadly

DA_SHREDDER2985d ago

For their sake, I hope they do fix this issue. If so many of my friends plan on getting this, unless they dont revamp the online.

ZombieNinjaPanda2985d ago

Revamp the online? What is there to revamp? You're saying it needs to be remade?

lolucrazy.

duplissi2985d ago

its already pretty good but it could use some work: add a party system and viola! its now much better than most other shooters.

dkgshiz2985d ago

The online in KZ2 is probably the best Ive ever played.

Ahmay2985d ago

the match making works well...

alphakennybody2985d ago

the online is one the best multiplayer experience out now.

DA_SHREDDER2985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

Yeah, I cant stand the regular TDM , CTF, or other simple game types since I've been playing MAG. Nothing seems close to the immersion that MAG brings to the table within its pmc wars that go on a daily basis. Nothing comes close, nothing on pc, the 360, or any other platform. They need to incorporate a meaningful online or this is just gonna be a standard fps to me, no matter how gorgeous the game is.

Why is it that people think its only the cod crowd that wants the controller input lag fixed? Its so funny cause you guys on n4g act all high and mighty, yall just a bunch of arm chair journalist. I hope they fix the lag and online so I can finally find a game to take me away from MAG.

MysticStrummer2985d ago

Nothing will take you from MAG, because there is nothing else like it on consoles and Killzone 3 will be no exception. It's too bad more people don't get into MAG, but it's not nearly mindless enough for the average FPS player. They want run and gun BS. They want to get in a minor skirmish and call it a war. MAG is my favorite online FPS of this generation by far. Hopefully more people will check it out at the cheaper price. It probably won't happen though.

kneon2985d ago

I saw it last week bundled with the PS3 Bluetooth headset for $60. That's one great deal so hopefully that pulled in a few more people.

While I love MAG and KZ2 I haven't been playing much of either the last few months. There are just too many other games to catch up on for me. I think I've bought about 20 games so far this year and still have 5 or 6 that I haven't even started. I did put a small dent in the backlog the past few days, I bought Resistance 1 and 2 a few days ago and played them both to completion, just finished 2 a few minutes ago.

I'll be back on MAG soon.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2985d ago
BuIIetproofish_2985d ago (Edited 2985d ago )

Bunch of cowards/sellouts. Killzone 2 sold fine, there was no reason to completely remove the weighted feeling.

Edit: The funny thing is the CoD players will always go back to CoD in the end. All they are doing is fucking the people that will play this game for a long time. I guess it works out for them, sell more copies, have less people use their online.

dkgshiz2985d ago

This is what COD does to games. Oh, well. I guess I dont mind. It still is pretty sad to see how many FPS games imitate COD controls.