Microsoft has claimed that players of Kinect can input control into Xbox games just as fast as players using joypads - and that the lag of the device should be judged in terms of experience rather than "milliseconds".
"...should be judged in terms of laggy experience rather than 'milliseconds'." "Let's say we're playing a game in which we're gonna see a bell go off, and whoever can enter an input faster wins. You're going to press a button and I'm going to [gesture]. We can do it as fast with Kinect as with a button." Well, that's a bad example. Try doing combos in a game like Tekken 6. Gestures will lose. It's just not the lag of the device either. It's also the fact that Kinect has to take some time to analyze and process the gesture, where as a joypad, you press a button, and the game knows its that button, the game does not have to waste time analyzing and processing which button you press. JoyPad: short lag of device Kinect: long lag of device + even more time analyzing and processing the gesture data JoyPad wins.
Wait now wait. In order for Kinect to input/show actions as fast as a joypad... it would has to pre-meditate your movements.... Because... as you know... joypads have such a small lag it's impossible to notice.
"MS: Kinect lag 'shouldn't be judged in milliseconds'" Yes MS it should be judged in FULL seconds ZING!!!!!
it's true... everything does have a "slight lag" even normal controls... But kinect isn't exactly "slight"
Err I think you'll find keyboard + mouse wins.
Gestures will always lose. Scientifically, it takes more nerve power, more muscle power, and more brain power (and therefore, much more time) to tell your entire arm "wave" than to tell the end of your thumb "push". So, even if Kinect was perfectly 1:1, it would still lose to a controller. But we all know that Kinect is far from 1:1, so it makes it even worse.
Yes consoles.. Your PC is the greatest piece of machinery the likes of which mankind has never before seen. We all know this already.
"Gestures will always lose. Scientifically, it takes more nerve power, more muscle power, and more brain power (and therefore, much more time) to tell your entire arm "wave" than to tell the end of your thumb "push"." That is not true. It takes no more "brain power" to push a button than it is to move your arm. The only lag is that in a controller based game, you have been trained that a simple one button mapping does a certain action. However, as Tsudo said it is not about ms measured for lag. It is how you perceive the lag. Buttons can't do everything Kinect does (better), it's just gamers have been trained to adapt to controller like input.
"That is not true. It takes no more "brain power" to push a button than it is to move your arm." That's not the issue though. The issue is that you still can't wave your arm around as fast as you can press a button. For example: You can probably press a button around 5 to 10 times per second. There's no way you can wave your arms 5 to 10 times per second. It's just physically impossible. No matter what, pressing a button will always be faster than doing gestures. And core games require fast inputs and reactions. Games like Tekken, where you have to do a move in 1 frame, to get the special frame move boost, is impossible to do with gesture.
Bahahaha!!! Damn funny bro. ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!!!!!
Okay, Microsoft. We will do it your way. Does the lag affect the players trying to play Kinect Adventures in the raft game? Because all of the videos I've seen have the avatars tending to jump almost two seconds too late (When it actually detects the jump). Does that hurt the experience if you can't jump when you need to? I'd think so. How about Ricochet? Shouldn't your reactions be fast if you're going to play a reaction game? But all the footage we've seen shows the avatars lagging almost two seconds behind. How about on-rails Star Wars (You know, the one you were caught faking at E3)? It seems to rely on reaction time, too, if you're going to block the laser fire and out-do the Sith lord. You're not even confident enough in that one to show live.
truth is everything has a lag.. i game on the pc alot and when i play with my ps3/360 i notice a very slight lag
the lag is much smaller than the lag found in kinect. I also game on the PC mainly, I always get raped on console FPS's because I'm not used to the damn analog sticks. :(
Wow, with a name like TotalPS3Fanboy, how could I not agree with your expert opinion? /s
If you actually read his comment then you would know he brought up a good point
Yeah buttons are faster than gestures, but gestures are good for games that require precision in movement. For example swinging a baseball bat, angles, speed, timing and location of the swing can all be accurately portrayed giving a more precise reaction to your swing. Hitting a button doesn't give you any of the above besides timing. PS MOVE is great for things like this because the camera can tell in 3D space where you are holding the bat and the accelerometers and gyroscopes in the controller tell what angle the device is being held through out the swing. Kinect can't detect precision in wrist movement..
NV >:( Dam you PS3 trolls with your super powers to comment on a Xbox 360 article in the matter of secs.
N4G playstation trolls should be judged in miliseconds. They have absolutely no lag. you guys are more efficient than mouse and keyboard congrats!! Edit: wow i did not eve finish positng and i already have a disagree lol milisecond trolls no lag at all.
hahah, that was a good one. They are indeed relentless. They always talk about how much better the PS3 is but they sure do seem threatened enough to comment on EVERY SINGLE 360 article. Why o why & MicroSony4Life...oh I am well aware that it goes both ways but I see a fraction of the 360 trolls when compared to the PS3 trolls. I mean this is a 360 article and the first guy commenting has the username TotalPS3Fanboy. It's completely out of control and the moderators refuse to do anything about it.
dont be so petty and one sided
the PS3 trolls on this site are die hard trolls with a mission to stir up BS on every 360 thread. When you have the first person to comment on a 360 topic and his name is totalPS3fanboy and he has 30 agrees before the article is approved then you know that N4G is a breeding ground for PS3 trolls and the mods love every bit of it.
The amount of PS3 trolls on N4G are far greater than the amount of 360 trolls. Go to a Sony article right now and tell me how much 360 trolls you see? I know that this is N4G and I should just ignore it but sometimes you just want to have a civilized dicussion about the matter at hand and not have to deal with people like GWAVE,TOTALPS3FANBOY,MORGANFAI L, HELL VECANCY,GHOST OF SPARTA,CAPTIN OBV,SAAKING#1,2,3,4,5..
I laugh at xbox fanboy since, dude none of you were by around when n4g was taking air, no one couldn't say gear of war was bad, you would have more than 56 disagree in one second, so what do we call that? xbox troll? give us a break, even if you are neutral, all sites has there biasness, or trolla, or fan supporting their console, or them all, and I don't think that is any bad but for trolls themselves. That n4g has more ps3 fanboy, GREAT, it had more xbox fanboy at first, and didn't saw NONE sonyer giving sht if not keeping the trolling, but looking at the minority crybaby of xbox trolls fanboy, they cry cus they are now overshadowed...gamespot is full of 360 bias, kotaku, destructoid, and a bunch of site where mostly troll there are bashing one of another being the majority xbox troll, but when a site has a clear side of trolls being sony trolls, it is a bad thing, xbox butthurst should take a trip off seriously, and go over any other site but n4g if it is that bad for them, I only has a xbox and whatever shit some ps troll says, don't give a damn thing about, but guess people love to give a damn and then troll, and that is the problem. Btw, yes kinect is lagfull but still something fun to play, and that is what matter.
There are trolls all around. X360 trolls comment in PS3 news.... PS3 trolls comment in X360 news. It's normal in N4G... but we have to admit... PS3 trolls are in much larger quantity in N4G.
have been here 2 years ago. This site was over run by 360 fans, which have, by now bought a PS3 and became a PS3 fans.
How ironic that it's Edge that Microsoft is interviewing with in order to do damage control.
MS: Kinect lag 'shouldn't be judged in milliseconds'... it should be judged in minutes instead
Didn't they also say it's best movement detection depends who is wearing the baggiest/tighest clothes? So the naked/spandex/short sleeve people will always win no matter what the sweatshirt folks do?
Where's Nelson when you need him!?
PR rule number one: Say it's supposed to be like that
LOL not sure if anyone has noticed the videos but a lot of it is pre made movements on the part of the games. in one video of the ball breaking game a person moved their hands to the top right corner. the video game pretty much covered that whole area not accurate just in the neighborhood of that corner.. in another the person swung wildly but the balls all hit his chest and awarded him the points. in another video of the rafting game two women were playing. they were told to jump, they did not, the raft and avatars still managed to collect all the coins. its all simuated to feel like gameplay but there is no gameplay, as far as capturing your movements, most cameras do that.. people are being fooled and arent even trying to look beyond the smoke and mirrors.
did you not see it on Jimmy fallon? She jumped, then the Avatar jumped about 1.5 seconds later.
I think you need to re-watch it, there was lag but it was more like .5 sec. 1.5 sec is going a bit far.
How could one NOT notice? Her avatar was also twitching ridiculously while she stood still.
T9X69 was right on this one. There is no way it was 1.5 seconds. But damn even a half a second is TERRIBLE!
people how complain about millisecond lag are trolls,most casual gamers won care or notice everything has lag,hopefully they can tweek it out by november edit:why the disagree??? please explain ....o i guess cause im not saying "kinect will fail"
wasnt me. ;) i just joined.
Its the Sony hater crowd. There is nothing you can do. just say anything that could be interpreted as positive to MS and you will be peppered with disagrees. there is no room for discussion here. either you agree with the Sony extremists or your opinion is sh#$.
and back in 2008 when you joined it was the complete opposite. mention sony and you would get banned. stop bitching.
try running 110m hurdles when your avatar jumps after you've crashed into the hurdle. EVERY TIME. casuals will notice that as well....
in other words there is lag and you adjust to it...and get used 2 it
I have yet to see a motion device that allows you to input as fast as a controller.
you must be talking about the wii
Nope I was talking about all of them. Move, Kinect, Wii.
We'll make an exception for you, Microsoft...... just kidding. A physical controller will win over Kinect, MS. Sorry, but it will. I can't imagine the controller to be something that hard anyway. How many buttons does a controller have, 16? How much does a TV remote have?
Thats not lag, its a feature!!!
You gotta love when developers/PR advertise the shortcomings of their hardware/software as intended features.
Yes just pretend it doesn't exist. Like the original Xbox
what MS said a few years ago: RROD does not exist, the failure rate of the 360 is within industry standards.
I highly doubt the kids that will be playing with this will even notice the lag.
As long as their character does the same thing you do they dont care if its laggy.
Y, does it go into a full second?
It's an advanced piece of video game hardware, and you have to understand that Microsoft is trying something that isn't going to be immediately comparable with what we have now. This is going to take a while, and it's probably not even gonna see its prime until next gen. Off topic, a while ago there was speculation that Xbox 720 games would be forward compatible (new game running on older hardware). Any news on that?
milli-minutes then? LoL
I have nothing against MS, however it feels like they have the WORST people who talk for them. you cant measure sh/t by that example. So milliseconds are the way to go. How else will you examine the speed that is needed for each game?
and make a game that is hardcore for Kinect..or at least tact it on halo reach
If its laggy then its laggy. You cant measure the response time by anything else so if its slow then you need to improve.
Fine the lag isnt in milliseconds...its in SECONDS. is that what they mean??
http://www.youtube.com/watc... This on the other hand?? http://www.youtube.com/watc... Awsome!!
and I won't consider you scum
From what I have read, the lag is 150 to 200ms depending on how complicated the gesture is. Here is a video of reaction time with a stopwatch. We've all tried this one and I can say from experience that, just like in the video, it is very rare for it to be under 110ms (0.11s) and that is when we are concentrating HARD on being as fast as we possibly can be. I don't know, maybe I am being too lenient but 0.15 to 0.2s doesn't seem like an issue to me. I mean, if lag is such a big deal right down to milliseconds, then why does everyone everyone use wireless controllers when they add 40-50ms of lag over a wired controller? Why would anyone use wireless adapters to game online when they add an additional 40-50ms or even a lot more if security features are enabled on your router? I don't know, just throwing it all out there as food for thought. http://www.youtube.com/watc...
then judged in what? mintues? xD please, 22ms is passable and even stupid fanboys complain about that , any more and its no good
The lag seemed so bad at the E3 presentation that it almost looked like the players were playing a different game and the raft game was doing something completely independent of what the players actions were. Ditto for that game where the players were on the moving platforms collecting coins. The players had to jump well in advance of the obstacles on the screen due to the delay in Kinect's response. Microsoft says we can't judge the lag in milliseconds but we all certainly have eyes. The E3 demos showed seemed to be a troubling indication of what Kinect's gameplay is like in reality.
This is too funny. Of course Kinect has too much lag. It's trying to do way too much. The 360 has to do quite a bit of the work too so the games will lose out to Kinect on resources. This is why Microsoft has switched to showing just casual games. I doubt we'll be seeing them add Kinect controls to big games like Sony is doing with Move.
Why couldn't Microsoft and Sony just leave motion control to the Wii kids?
Because they didn't leave gaming to the sega/nintendo kids either? There's a market.
For me it like saying for Kinect games, lag won't take away from the experience/fun, but I'm not sure how that will work with sports games, that would pretty crappy and not fun.