Responding to comments from PGR4's developer indicating that the team had problems fitting the data on a single DVD, Sony says that its Blu-Ray investment is justified
Told you so haha Mart where are you buddy? Hiding or praying in the church your ThreeFixMe doesn't crap on you? Haha
Don't say that. That's not a neutral thing to say.
The 3FixMe is a wonderful system. So long as you have a wet towell and a few hundred extra fans pointing directly at it....HAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHA
I've said it before and I'll say it again,..boy am I glad I have a PS3...HAHHAHA
got that many agrees, directly speaks about the quality of the people on this site. What a bunch of stupid children..
You make me feel ashamed for being associated with the PS3 at all..
where is the "hd-dvd investment justified, says Toshiba"
come guys seriously.
That is because there is no HD-DVD in the Xbox 360. So what would be justified..?
It's not justified lol.
why does it have to be blu-ray. Why not someone saying "if MS used HD-dvd this wouldnt have been a problem.
Because that's not being realistic duh!.
MS has confirmed that they won't use Hd-dvd's as there main software discs so I don't get your point on hypothetically stating something like this if MS won't use those discs in the first place. DVD9 is old technology that will soon die in the gaming biz and replaced by discs with obviously more discs capacity hence why this article is stating on a good investement by Sony by incorporating there new Blu-Ray disc technology into there new generation of gaming console, the PS3. Soon even BR disc will not have the amount of capacity for developers to make games which is understandable. =P
Well Arduous HD DVD isn't valid because"
1 - They couldn't get their act together with security measures so every studio except Universal and Weinstein jumped ship to Bluray. It was in trouble from the get go. Here:
2 - People like Kojima saying they need dual layer Bluray which means even HD DVD could have problems with capacity for some titles.
3 - Add the cost of an external HD DVD player to the 360, add in all the features of the standard PS3 and what is your cost? I think the proper word, and add this to the next Webster's, would be - Ginormous.
Who needs biased articles when you can be a retarded fanboy about it?
Its ironic that Sony is using a Microsoft AAA title to justify their exploitation of PS3 fans to promote Blu-ray. Don't blame them cos looking at the quality of Sony games, they all fit very well into a DVD if the developers bothered to compress.
Forcing the Devs to compress instead of spending that time on making a game better without having to worry about space. I'm sure all devs would rather work on HD-DVD or Bluray as it saves them having to worry about things they shouldn't have to.
If they compressed the compression of the first compressed version of a game, we could all still be using CD. YIPPEE!!!
What's your point? You don't really have one, do you?
@hella whip, how Ironic... lol... you make it sound as if developers are having such of hard time doing extra work to make games for the xbox 360.. when in reality... developers are releasing xbox 360 games on time... on the other hand... you hear all the time developers are having a hard time developing for the PS3... and games keep getting delayed... while xbox 360 gamers get the games first... So, don't worry so much about xbox 360 game developers... they don't seem to be having lots of problems.. to release games... compression ... mmm.. they can deal with that... you are acting as if Sony made it very easy for developers to make games... when it's the other way around...
Let's not got there please... let not start talking about who is making harder for developers to make games...
You guys are still in denial? What is it about that short HS demo that required such a big download? What is it about Killzone 2 to require 2 gig for 1 level? What is it about RFOM? NOTHING. There was absolutely nothing in those games that distinguishes them from games that fit very well into a DVD. Yes, PGR4 is the first game to legitimately exceed a DVD, hooray.
Microsoft "AAA" title?
I didn't realize PGR4 was already out and rated.
I guess I better get myself out to EB and pick a copy up.
You should do a little more reasearch Bladestar. MS has hardly had their games ship on time. GRAW a launch title? Gears? Need more?
Yes, Sony's tools could be better. And they are moving in that direction. But development on the PS3 requires a different process and it requires developers to actually learn new programming. You would be surprised how lazy devs can be. However, once devs go that extra mile you will be rewarded like nothing else.
You should also know that decompression isn't done on the fly for everything. To what storage system would you have these files decompress? The system memory? Sorry most of that is needed. The HDD? Hammer time - Ba ba ba ba, ba ba...ba ba can't touch this. Or should I say TOUCH THAT, since developers work based on the Core system - no HDD. No HDD required was the biggest mistake MS made with the 360. That and a nasty motherboard engineering flaw.
Need I remind you 360 sales are down 60% versus this time last year. Don't count on HALO3 to pull your cookies out of the fire. It's a downward spiral.
Here is another thing about development. If there is an issuie with a development platform, by the time the devs start to say something that gets into print, it is already a SERIOUS ISSUE, NOT A MINOR MATTER. I said it before, the Rockstar complaints about standard DVD was a warning shot. Microsoft's response was DLC. Yeah, that will work. DLC when so many don't have a HDD to begin with.
Anyone that thinks it will take until 2009 for ordinary DVD capacity to cripple games is smoking crack. It's already here. Anyone seriously think that compressed audio can compete with uncompressed audio? That isn't the worst part.
First Rockstar and now PGR devs:
"You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD."
Ouch. Game, set, match. It seems MS has a habit of producing consoles - that entail expensive customer investment - and then said console is good for less than 4 years.
HA! This is one of the reasons why Wardevil was dropped for the 360.........idiot......
You are wrong BS3, PGR4 IS THE SECOND GAME THAT WE KNOW ABOUT. Rockstar already stated limitations in GTA IV were NO HDD AND STANDARD DVD.
"... PGR4 is the first game to legitimately exceed a DVD..."
What about Blue Dragon, its on 3 DVDs.
I don't mean to disrespect jrpgs, I've played Blue Dragon, its a good game but a there's a lot of storytelling cut-scenes and that's what is taking up space, not gameplay. Oblivion is a much bigger (and better)game and it is done in a single DVD because it doesn't rely on extravagant cut scenes to tell the story. Yes games will eventually need more and more space, I don't deny it. Eventually.
Well BS3, any game that takes up more than 1 disc for any reason has exceeded the current DVD. You may think you are the center of the universe, but a game doesn't get a pass for exceeding disc size just because you think it's two additional discs are cluttered with useless cutscene material.
When you can't depend on a single large disc, you get repetitious files (such as textures and sound files) that have to be replicated on each disc. But you also get cutscenes which are part of the developer's vision for the game. When the dev doesn't have the disc space to support his vision for a game, the 'Crask Landing, Disc Size Exceeeded' light comes on.
You had better go strap your self in...
That's Sony saying I told you so.
There's a reason for everything..... Blu-ray or DVD, pick one. this is HD 20th century.
*obligatory gloat about how smart we are for owning a ps3 and mandatory villification of Microsoft and Xbots*
Why do they care what Bizarre Creations is doing. Maybe they should be worried about getting GT5 out before 2019. Im sure those 10000 cars will tak a while.
And besides, what is Sony supposed to say. We used our loyal fanbase of 110,000,000 to force our Bluray technology on a market that wasn't ready for it.
Since HDDVD got a year head start we will just fight dirty.
Oh I mean to "futureproof". Yeah.
I was ready for it. And since no one buys anything but HDTV's anymore I dont think I'm alone.
Should I have waited another 5 or 6 years for HD movies and extra storage on a next gen console because you dont like Sony?
It's better than forcing consumers to spend an extra $200 for a Blu-ray.
gets you wi-fi, 3 memory card reader formats, an extra usb port, hdmi 1.3, optical output, and gigabit ethernet, in addition to Blu-ray movies. Pretty sweet deal, huh?
I don't want the wi-fi.
I don't want the 3 memory card reader formats.
I don't want the extra usb port.
I don't want hdmi 1.3.
I don't want the optical output.
I don't want the gigabit ethernet.
And I certainly don't want the Blu-ray movies.
Because I don't need any of them.
And I don't want to pay for any of them.
In simple English: I just don't want them.
Do NOT phucking tell me what I want or do not want.
Do NOT phucking tell me what I should get or should not get.
Sony does phucking NOT tell me what I want or do not want.
Sony does phucking NOT decide what I should get or should not get.
Sony does phucking NOT tell me how much I should spend my money to buy what they bundle in a video game console.
I want a console without all of the bundles.
I just want a console that does not cost $500.
Sony is just NOT going to sell me a video game console at $400, $500 or $600.
That is the bottom line.
If Sony can give all those stuff to me at no more than $400, then great. Otherwise, get out of my face. I want a video game console, not a bundled multimedia center that costs $500-$600.
and then can't even spell curse words correctly! Ahahaha!
You can really tell that Xbots are all for technology and progress!!!!........yeah right.....HAHAHAHA "They can always put it on multiple DVDs" HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! YEAH THAT'S REALLY NEXT GEN!!!!
I don't want to buy buy a piece of hardware that's not well built
I don't want to buy buy a piece of hardware that's already starting to get obsolete
I don't want to buy extra battery chargers
I don't want to buy yet another Windows-only compatible device
I don't want to go half way
MS does NOT force me into using MS-only products
MS does NOT force me into endless update cycle
MS will NOT be a part of my everyday life like they want to
I want a product that will last
I want a product that will do the work of many other products
I want to reduce the pile of equipment on my living room
So hmmmm... again a matter of taste / need here?
They were "willin and dealin" backstage, offering some good partnership/cash for support, I'm sure, while Toshiba was working on it's "Hardware" and "Features." Good move by them.
Now imagine if MS had put HD-DVD drives into Xbox 360's this PS3+BD edge would be NULL. Hey it is, what it is.
Right now Blue-ray players are still working on their Hardware, while HD-DVD has features way ahead of BD players. So really, all the BD players out will be gimped soon, since the hardware is not even finalized.
I give it to sony, the trojan horse is doing it's dirty work..hehe, but BD is not winning on best Hardware/Features, mainly on support.
so there ya go. Hey even "300" is better on HD-DVD, but of course "features/extras" never mattered so some now, they just want the movie..hehe
So what are you gonna fill 50 Gig of space with?..lol
That's right, keep thinking things will stay the same and you will be eating so much crow you can't think straight. In fact, you seem to have reached that point already. Here, have some more:
"On August 28th, Paramount will ship its first high definition title to include a lossless or uncompressed soundtrack - 'Blades of Glory'. This title will feature a PCM 5.1 soundtrack for the Blu-ray release, but will feature no equivalent on the HD DVD, presumably because of the smaller disc capacity. Two weeks later, Paramount will ship 'Face/Off' with extras features available in high definition, but only on the Blu-ray version, again due to space constraints.
This is a drastic change from the Paramount we once knew. For the past year, Blu-ray owners have cringed as they saw release after release issued with low bit rate MPEG-2 video encodes and Dolby Digital soundtracks, while the HD DVD versions received VC-1 encodes and higher bit rate Dolby Digital Plus audio. It was disappointing to say the least.
The shift began with 'Flags of Our Fathers', which was released with a high bit rate AVC encode for the Blu-ray release. The audio was still lacking, but it was clear they were finally recognizing the Blu-ray consumer as a valuable asset. Now, with the addition of PCM audio, Paramount completes the high definition package and Blu-ray owners can now enjoy their favorite Paramount movies the way they were meant to be seen."
I DO NOT OWN DVDS. NOT EVEN 1.
I'm just telling it like it is.
I stream and download movies, well been that way the last 9 years or so. So yeah I do not loose anything, because of this format war, I don't have sh!t to re-purchase..haha
Game on bro, game on..
know this since day 1 = November 17/2006
that this complaint that consoles don't need the extra space was used when CD's were being introduced for the first time. It's the natural progression of things - cart to CD to DVD to BD
mmm.. let's see...
Microsoft delays the xbox 360 in order to add HD DVD built int capability... probably launching close to the PS3...
Microsoft releases the xbox 360 for $600 just like the PS3.. forcing gamers into a format war.. and paying for it even if they don't want to....
Before price drop... how well was Sony doing?... now imagine how bad the xbox 360 would have done... Would they have the same level of developer support?
Of course Sony fanboys keep saying that Microsoft should have release HD DVD... built into the xbox 360.... since that would add at least a $200 price tag to the xbox 360... at that price the xbox 360 would sell even worst than the PS3 due to the lack of brand recognition and smaller fanbase.. wouldn't have the game library advantage.. microsoft would be even in worst into the red... and they probably would be stock with a format (hd-dvd) that would lose to blu-ray...
Right.... obviously it does not make sense at all.. for what? So, developer don't have to use 2 disk instead of 1? Please... Only Sony fanboys are so stupid to even suggest microsoft would do such move.
Sony could afford to do what they did... even if they lose 50% of their fanbase.. they would be ok... and if blu-ray wins... they would benefit when it other areas like movies.. where microsoft has no interest. Sony had brand recognition....
I probably wouldn't even look at the xbox 360 if they would release it at the same time as the PS3 for the same price... duhhh.. and microsoft knew that...
Sony is an more of a good position to launch with ad HD player and a high price tag than MS. They launch early and got a good lead but I don't think that lead is much.
I think MS did what they have to do while Sony the big behemoth was still asleep(well having issues).
As the underdog, I probably would of done the same. So far it has been paying off, we will see later on. With the amount of PS2 gamers out there, MS may not win this Gen, soley on that fact, that "brand name" recognition/fanboy loyalty, still is a big advantage.
Right now it is what it is. Sony still leads the market, as MS takes a bigger piece then it did with the Xbox. Remember, this is MS second Gen console. Sony and Nintendo have had 30+ years to get it right. While others conntinue to bash the 360, MS is in this for the long haul, or they wouldn't have spent/loose so much money, while not quitting like Dreamcast/Jaguar/3D0 (much love Sega).
SONY is watching Microsoft every move when they need to be making games for the PS3,Disc space this Disc space that.Lair is 25gigs 12 to 15 hours of gameplay and it got SLASHED by 1up and EGM on the Review.BIOSHOCK dont even fill up a DVD and it is 15 to 20 hours of Gameplay, so what is the use of having a 25 gig game if a game on a DVD has more hours of gameplay..........Exactly.SONY needs to put up and shut up.
the reason why LAIR didnt get such a good review from EGM, which by the way is only what like one reviewer, was because its a totally different game, FPS will get higher scores over games that look different and play different any day. FPS is basically the sport for all console players, so its easier to score them, while games like LAIR take a different path, and some times different is good because it takes you away from the same old FPS games coming out almost every single month. So sony does not have to put up or shut up, because they know what they are doing.
The thing that pisses me off about Sony that they don't shut up. Just let the games speak. 5x the data okay. Then we should get 5 times the textures and 5 times the gameplay time. There should not be a 10 hour PS3 game that is exclusive to the PS3. I will wait untill I see the PS3 being leaps and bounds ahead of the 360 and it is not. It looks like dev are spending so much time on graphics and f-ing with the cell that they have forgot about the game as a whole. How long has Lair been in dev? Studios have a budget for games. If 90% of that budget is on GFX then the rest will be bad. A nice balance for a game will be good. Oblivion was like 40 hours long on a DVD 9. Oblivion won like RPG of the year also.
"And besides, what is Sony supposed to say. We used our loyal fanbase of 110,000,000 to force our Bluray technology on a market that wasn't ready for it.
Since HDDVD got a year head start we will just fight dirty."
Umm, please don't complain because a company knows how to run it's business, I mean, sony set themselves up to make money. If Blu-ray does good PS3 will do good, win-win. If ps3 is doing bad, but blu-ray becomes dominant, win-win. If you want to sell a new format, you need to SELL it. Sony is doing that, while giving a future advantage to the gaming industry and movie industry. There's nothing HD-DVD can do that blu-ray won't do soon.
"ktchong 10.2 - Why would I want an Elite?"
1. This is next-gen
2. a console is not JUST a gaming system, it is an entertainment system.
3. seeing as how it is next-gen, I want more bang for my buck, i better be getting an all in one deal, then I can clear out my stuff(dvd player etc) and have space for my console ^_^.
4. If you just want a gaming console, why even get the elite rofl?. Why not just get the core.
5. Sony is NOT telling YOU anything. YOU have a CHOICE whether TO buy the CONSOLE or NOT.
And wth microsoft?
i do NOT want xbox live.
i do NOT want a hard drive.
i do NOT want to be able to play games on the internet.
i do NOT want bundles.
all I want is a CONSOLE that can PLAY games. i am NOT paying 350-500 for a console that does what I dont WANT it to do. because the WORLD revolves around ME. Microsoft does NOT tell me what I "phucking" want to BUY.
rofl, seriously man, all the companies do is put their consoles out there, if you dont want it you don't want it, don't bash it because it doesnt give you what YOU want. Find another console then -.-.
I Laugh when you said Sony dont need to put up or shut up,you must not own a PS3 because mine is collecting dust SONY needs to put up or shut up.Lair has been in development for 2 years and it is a PS3 exclusive it should not have got 1 LOW Review if you ask me.
Sony you need to stop running your mouth because even the example you use with Lair being 25gigs isn't getting you good reviews... It's not how big your disc is, it's how you use it!
Went from 1st day purchase to a rental..
i have a question:
*WHEN was Gears of War supposed to be released again? at 360 *LAUNCH?
when did it come out? right. a *YEAR later.
when was Too Human supposed to come out again?
when was Alan Wake supposed to come out again?
how many times has Mass Effect been delayed again?
point is: games get delayed. for *WHATEVER reason.
at least when a PS3 game that's been delayed releases, it performs rather well (ie Oblivion having less issues than the PC/360 version).
the fact of the matter is that DVD9 is starting to show it's age on *SOME games.
i think Sony was completely justified in putting Blu Ray in the PS3.
even if Blu Ray fails as a movie format, it's still being used for games.
i don't buy movies on UMD for the PSP, but i buy PSP *GAMES. what do PSP games ship on again? UMDs, that's right.
last i checked, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Resistance, Motorstorm, Oblivion, and Virtua Fighter ship on Blu Ray discs.
the Blu Ray drive in my PS3 is being used. and that's all that matters.
just like early PS2 games didn't use, or fully utilize DVD, early PS3 games have yet to fully utilize Blu Ray, but there are some games that are (ie, Resistance being 16gigs, Motorstorm being 15).
something tells me that if it was the other way around, and Microsoft decided to put Blu Ray or HD DVD into the 360, and Sony stuck with DVD, people would be slamming Sony for their lack of foresight.
Sony is a *TECHNOLOGY company. they've been in business for 60 years because they know how to *LOOK AHEAD. they aren't perfect, but putting DVD in the PS2 was ultimately a smart move, even though it was widely considered to be a gamble, supporting an "unproven" format, and yes, back in 1999, when Sony announced that the PS2 would have a DVD drive inside, it *WAS an unproven format, with expensive players, and a small library of films. sound familiar? it should.
...that actually MS said "Sony is forcing an unproven format on gamers. DVD9 is enough this gen." And all xbots followed and were bubbling like in trance "Blind Sony lemmings, Sony is forcing an unproven format on you. DVD9 is enough this gen."
***************************** ******************************* **********
Now backflash to reality. So what happened here? I'll tell you what happened. MS was selling nothing but lies, they knew very well DVD9 ain't enough. I mean how couldn't they not know if already a 2nd gen title goes out of space. And tell me xbots, who is the blind lemming now? Haha now you have it xbots, I told you so. Now the Sony fans and Sony themselves can say "MS is forcing an outdated format on gamers. DVD9 is not enough this gen." Poor xbots, i can really feel for them, want some tissues xbots? Haha
format at the time and still kinda is. So far so good for Sony.. If it hadn't of worked out we would be looking at UMD all over again.
You can be as bitter as you want to Xbox 360 users but I'm playing great games now on DVD9.. So you can talk out-dated format all you want but when a game like Bioshock gets a 9's and 10's and LAIR gets 5 and 7's I think the whole format argument goes out the window. Just give me good games.
Speaking of which I'm going to get my game on now.. You can sit here banging your head against the wall saying "I told you so" all night long for all I care.
How could it be an unproven format if it is actually needed? Does this make any sense to you?
I'm not bitter, I'm stating the truth. Didn't you see the nation of xbots bubbling on all PS3 news "Blind Sony lemmings, Sony is forcing an unproven format on you. DVD9 is enough this gen."? They are getting now what they have asked for if you ask me.
And no, the whole format argument doesn't go out the window. Fact is, it limits the content. PGR4 is just the beginning and DVD9 won't be probably enough for Bioshock 2 anymore. How is it that you mention just the 2 worst reviews of Lair? Haha are you sure you ain't a biased fanboy?
I told you so buddy and I'll enjoy Bioshock on PC. Oh yeah...haha...if you got a good PC, there is no need for 360, I told you so over a year ago buddy ;)
shows your angle. Edge supposedly gave LAIR 9/10 so whats your point. Try b4 u buy or at least try b4 you try and slander and use 1 persons opinion/review to make a BS point. Thats so weak. Blu ray is not needed for 360 fans so leave them in their dvd9 heaven. Im becoming more convinced that a lot of the hardcore 360 fans only think about today and never the future. Its like a new merc vs an investment in property.
i actually agree with ur post...and its sooo true.
this is why MS rushed the 360..even tho they knew it was unstable and screwing all u 360 fans...and now if u look back at it - do u think that MS would be doing worse then what they are doing rite now? like 1.3 billion in debt plus price drop + extended warrenty which who knows how much more thatll put them in the hole
360 hasnt even reach their previous xbox1 fan base
PS3 has been dominating since E3 and with all the AAA titles coming which look better then anything on the 360 - i dont see the PS3 sales hitting rock bottom anytime soon
I think if you check, wii is dominating, ps3 is last (unless you live in Japan), as for AAA titles, wasnt lair and folklore supposed to be that????
Alright people say stupid sh!t like wait now play later like they are playing the really great games now but the last time i checked your games were coming out in a few months just like ours so your waiting as well now i don't know what is coming out in August for the 360 because i am not into that system but one game that i have been wanting and even with the bad rep i still want is Lair so what about you just wondering i know how you fanboys get upset over facts.
Sony is goin to make big money on blue ray..Its only a matter of time till more delovepers come out and say dvd is not enough space..
thats why Halo 3 is two disk's
Once they get used to programming for the PS3 (around about 1-2 years), then you will be able to tell the games on Blu-Ray to the ones on DVD.
Just like when the PS2 came out, the games looked simular. But lets be honest: could God Of War II or Final Fantasy XII ever of fitted onto a CD? You could even probably go back to Devil May Cry & Final Fantasy X, most games after 1 year could not have fitted onto 1 CD.
I know some people will argue that the games could come on multiple disks, but then games become more linear or you screw up the draw on the drive out from ejecting.
Sony needs to worry about getting their devs to make games that graphically match and run as good as 360 games before they boast about Blu-ray space. Will people care if AAA's keep coming to the 360 that look better, run better and are often more advanced and complex(Game design often better on 360 with added social features).
As a 360 fan its strange to see other 360 fans worry about what Sony fanboys say about this issue its not our future at risk its MS's; i'm sure they'll figure it out if it matters this generation.
I do not belive PS3 matches the 360 anyways; so as long as devs can make more advanced games that look better and score higher with reviewers this issue won't matter that much(if the dev must make a huge game they sould do it the way its been done on PS2 over and over again, i guess we'll be sh*t out of luch with sand-box style games).
All kinds of DVD tech being developed this issue could be gone by in a matter of a year or so.
Just got 300 on blu-ray today...:) SWEET *some bad words*
LMAO at microsoft making a next gen. console with last gen. media Hahahahaha they have still so much to learn here they are rockies thats why they will never make a profit here.
PS1 used CDs
PS2 used dvds
PS3 uses Blu-ray.
its only natural duh. Sony knows what they are doing ok they havent been the champs for more then 12 years for nothing.
anti-Sony clan so so owned.
It has only been a couple of years since people switched from V.H.S to d.v.d,they will not do it again within the next 5 to 10 years, only village idiots, techno freaks and people who think its a good idea to buy a ps3 will have blue ray, its just a fad and like the mini disk, it will go away, the same goes for hd dvd's too
Forget VHS...I read the 8-track is making a comeback. All kidding aside, I think there is a sizable market for HD formats now. Although, looking at the history of the move from VHS to DVD, I agree that it makes sense that general public won't be ready to switch from DVD to a HD format. The difference this time is switch to HD-DVD and/or Blu-ray is happening in sync with the overall switch to HD broadcast. Compared to HDTVs, there is only a handful of SDTV out there for sale. This may infact stimulate a faster change to HD formats than was the case with VHS to DVD.
Gameplay comes first then graphics. I also dissagree with your PS3 comments. 360/PC multi platform designed cross play hybrids or games made to easily be ported from one another(PC-360) will be the future(MS's vision from the start). Man have you seen Huxley? the game had its gameplay worked on first then its graphics.
Check out the dudes link in Post#22 after watching this video http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...
seeing the state of current game developement, Sony is indeed justified in having Blu Ray in every PS3. Microsoft is going to have to hurry into next generation by 2010-11 because of DVD space constraints. I guess 360 has become testing the waters no 2. A better one at that but not quite there.
And PGR4 is a 1st party game for MS if i'm not mistaken. This isn't about developing for a complicated system with more power such as the PS3. This is a full blown constraint on the 360 that can't really be worked around with save for downgrading the gameplay and compressing it.