The new "Classics HD" label pretty much confirms what many feared back when Sony announced they were going to remove b/c altogether from all PS3's.
No. The emotion engine added a cost that Sony thought wasn't worth it.
@SOAD I agree. That was a costs cut measure. Besides WTF? since when blurry upscaled PS2 game = HD remastered version, with trophies? "The new "Classics HD" label pretty much confirms what many feared" I havent seen anyone fearing. PS3 owners are more than happy to play the best PS2 titles in HD. I'm so buying Sly Cooper, it ven got fully 3D support. To the author: Buy a PS2 if you dont care about visuals.
With the remarks because everything is updated and all the games in the series come on ONE disk for a low price. You can't be that bargain if you ask me.
I have no problem with it as long as the games cost $9.99.
LOL. You dont have a PS3.
I would spend 20. That's about it though.
@SOAD Actually is The Graphics Synthesizer GPU, EE was Emulated in some European PS3s O-T Remastered Collections of Franchises in 1 Blu-Ray + HD + Trophies are Awesome and no-1 is forced to buy them if don't want to like no-1 was forced to buy a PS3 Fat @ $600 with 10 Years of Gaming since Day One aka Backward Compatible PS3....
EE was also emulated on the first 80GB PS3 SKU in North America (and Japan?). All other SKUs after that don't have the Graphics Synthesizer, including the Slim model. People have crunched the numbers before and already came up with a resounding "not possible" when trying to consider the possibility of PS2 backwards compatibility on those systems. If you look, you'll notice that 80% of games work on 80GB PS3s compared to near-100% for the 60GB model. Now consider this: If taking out and emulating EE caused a 20% drop in compatibility, imagine what trying to emulate the GS will do? Nothing released after 2004 would run reliably, if at all (that's when games started using updated GPU functionality, as evidenced by Star Ocean 3 being incompatible with older PS2s). Edit: here's one fairly interesting and popular series that doesn't run on 80GB PS3s (so don't even count on it working on a theoretical return of PS2 BC today). Ratchet & Clank doesn't work properly. Most titles in the series have severe slowdown or just plain freeze. http://us.playstation.com/s... <-- Just select "80GB" and enter "Ratchet" as the search term. You'll see the games don't work for that SKU. They work for the 60GB SKU, though.
but at the same time, its obviously an advantage for them to remove BC + proven it can be done in software alone, they just saw a huge pot of money they'd miss out if they went ahead with BC but yes, emotion engine = main reason
No, Emotion Engine is emulated on 80GB PS3s. As sikbeta pointed out, it's the Graphics Synthesizer (GPU) that was the last piece of PS2 hardware left. All SKUs after the MGS/Motorstorm 80GB model don't have the GPU, which in turn makes it absolutely impossible to emulate PS2 games anymore.
If someone wanted to play PS2 games, they could always get.. i dunno? A PS2? 60GB PS3? I have God of War 1/2 on PS2 and still got the collection for the update.
@silverslug i can buy a ps2 and the original game for the same price as the hd collections
could you point me that direction? Is this a new ps2 and a new game or both used. I'm pretty sure the god of war collection when first released was 39.99 but now you can find it for 29.99 new......So about that deal.
I still have my PS2 and a huge collection of PS2 games. Who sells or trades a classic console like the PS2? To me the HD collection is a great way for Sony to tap its huge library for profit. I bought the God of War HD collection even though I had the games on the PS2 so there is value for fans of classic franchises. Trophy support and the HD upgrade are worth the investment in a few classic franchises you love. It's not like no work goes into the HD transformation. There is a lot that goes into it. Like I would buy a Ratchet and Clank HD collection day 1.
I agree Stan, I still have my ps2 and my collection still, as well as a launch ps3. I feel there is much value in these collections, I look forward to the sly collection as well since I never played the franchise and I can get 3 classic games remastered for the price of one. I think the author pulled out the old jump to conclusions mat.
"Who sells or trades a classic console like the PS2?" People who hear Sony say that the ps3 will be backwards compatible, and assume it's going to be that way forever (it's a fair assumption), which renders their ps2s useless. PS3 was expensive back then and some people needed all the cash they can get, so why would they NOT sell their ps2?
***PS3 was expensive back then and some people needed all the cash they can get, so why would they NOT sell their ps2? *** If you needed the $20-40 selling your PS2 back then could net you for a PS3 in order to make the purchase, you shouldn't even be considering the purchase. Anyone who made that sort of deal is, honestly, an idiot consumer.
Yeah I think its a good trade, HD remakes for old titles over b/c. Would still be nice if we had both, but I still have a PS2.
i have my 60gb but never really played any ps2 games on it....
Same Here, I have the 60 gig as well, but I don't think I ever played a PS2 game on it since the month it released.
I guess you people already owned a PS2.
I played GOW1 and 2 and Shadow of the Colossus on my launch PS3....and if Sony is telling me SOC will be remastered with a solid frame rate, at 60 Hz ta boot, I would say buying the remastered disc will be money well spent. Don't forget, the frame rate was juiced on God of War, too.
Sony did make a really stupid move and re-mastering PS2 games in HD? I don't want them remastered, I want to play them in their original form from my original copy. If you re-master them then it loses that classic feeling. Sony should kill the PS2 and bring back B.C ASAP. Why do you think the most requested feature on the PS ideas site is PS2 B.C? because people obviously want it.
Why would you kill something that is still selling and will continue to sell. If I'm not mistaken a business need to make a profit to survive. Are you gonna kill your mom because she's old? Naw didn't think so. Really at 99 dollars new with a huge catalog of games it's a steal. I am sadden by the loss of bc but I could have bought a 60 or 20 when they first released. Sony did announce that they were in fact killing bc. You had your chance there. I actually like the idea of remastered ps2 titles. I wouldn't mind the team ico games since I never played them when I had my ps2. They have a huge library with many jems
I'd rather have remastered. For those of you wanting the classic feeling, plug in your PS2. I never owned PS2 and after playing PS3 I tried PS2 and the graphics were difficult to look at. Everything was extremely jaggy and the experience wasn't very good for me. I would welcome more HD releases.
PS2 games had jaggies so obviously it's going to look jaggy.
I'm aware of that, I was saying compared to current gen, last gen graphics are hard to look at.
Actually, it's not really remastering them at all (except with trophies and 3d). They are releasing the version the developers originally intended to make but were restrained to by the ps2's hardware. This way, we get to experience the intended experience, and not a lesser version.
First it giveth then it taketh away. Then it giveth again but now you have to payeth.
ya, kinda like: 50dollars a year for xbl 100dollars for wifi adapter 170dollars for 120gb hdd need i go on. I don't care if they added some of the stuff to the slim, the crazy ass prices they charged for this stuff made it so I never downloaded a single xbla game, but I have 20+ PSN games.
"50dollars a year for xbl 100dollars for wifi adapter 170dollars for 120gb hdd " Too bad, Wifi is included and a 250 gig HDD is included.. and well for XBL, PSN Plus says Hi, but the features of XBL are over shadowing it... @Dlacgy13g How DARE you speak of thee Sony!!!!!! KB himself, will come hunt you down, Terminator style! From the future, using the Move!!!!!!
lol what features of XBL are overshadowing PS+? Is it that you get to play online?
or are you so desperate you count this as a negative =P at least PS2 games are worth playing unlike xbox games
so dumb. it's not the same ps2 game as you can play on your ps3 60, it's really better and worth the price.(don't you pay for old and dumb "arcade games" on xbl, who are so inferiors to ps2 remastered ?) (to funny to see dumb fanboyz, like dlacy, to "lol" about remastered games, when he is paying for playing online, paying for inferior hardware, paying for games onb dvd, etc etc ) edit : "Sony's approach: Update the graphics, add trophies and put the game out for $40 at retail to sell millions... Microsoft's approach: Update the graphics, maybe add some features, add achievements and put the game on XBLA for $10-20... Nintendo's approach: Just put all the games on the platform at a reduced cost as they are. " - don't compare sub-game with masterpieces - 40 ? for two games, in hd (not "updated poor graphics of poor games") - if you want to talk about money and value, sony killed the competition in every fronts (hardware, accesories, psn prices : wipe out, etc say hello) so, when a dumb man paid to much for his crap, the first thing to do, is to don't "lol" about people smarters, who have the best, for the best price :)
But remember Sony Fanboys...Sony isnt doing this just to rape you of money...they are doing this because they wanted to give back to their loyal supporters. See....every company out there is out to make a buck at your expense. All 3 of the console makers are guilty of it.
we actually want them remastered in HD with better framerates. Some games haven't age well and a graphical upgrade is the perfect way to let HD gamers experience the gems from the previous gen. Personally, i would gladly pay full price for a remastered version of KH2 even though i still have the PS2 version and a working fat ps2. Trophies also offers a small incentive to replay them and some games like SoTC would benefit immensely from an upgrade in framerates.
SEGA did it,Nintedo did it(OOT/Mario64 got rereleased 4 times),M$ did it But when SONY make a enhancement version for less $ every one Fuc*ing complain a bout it. Too much stupidity in this industry more than M$ can hire.
Square is the grandfather of this. Final Fantasy 1 has been re-released like 4 times now.
More like 6, if you don't include Final Fantasy 1 & 2 that released on the Famicom nor the Wii Virtual Console version. MSX, WonderSwan, PSOne, Gameboy Advance, PSP, iPhone.
Wow. People can be so ungrateful. With is better? A Bluray Disk with all the games remastered, better graphics and trophies added in at a cheaper price or having to find and buy each game individually and play them on an older system? Besides I don't know why anyone is bringing in the Xbox into this conversation. What is the point of having backward compatability if you barely had any games on the last system worth playing?
Sony's approach: Update the graphics, add trophies and put the game out for $40 at retail to sell millions... Microsoft's approach: Update the graphics, maybe add some features, add achievements and put the game on XBLA for $10-20... Nintendo's approach: Just put all the games on the platform at a reduced cost as they are. Who's milking gamers the most?
I personally, like Sonys approach more, I prefer disc over digital download. Plus the PS2 remakes are actual games, like GoW collection, not mediocre arcade titles. Now if MS made a Halo remake collection...
GOWC - 2 games on one disc SlyC - 3 games on one disc
Its much more better in disc rather than digital download.Who knows if it accidently got deleted or got corrupted when downloading like mine.U hav to buy all over again like Mine got corrupted because of electricity went down and hav to rebuy it.
- "Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3." http://www.gamepro.com/arti... Enjoy being MILKED...
I love Milk, so how's Halo?
let me get this straight? the ps3 is without a doubt the most powerful out of the 3 systems but I shouldnt even question why i cant play my ps2 games? c'mon the only reason sony hasnt done the whole backwards compatibility is because they want more money if your saying no then you really love sony too much
I love sony, but it's obvious they did this to make money off of the HD collections.
But Sony already did backward compatibility. It's called the 60GB PS3. You can go by a 60GB PS3 if you wanted backward compatibility. @Crusade But that's not the only reason Sony is doing this. The other reason is that gamers want Sony to remastered PS2 games in HD and add in Trophies Support. Sony is just catering to the gamers, while making money at the same time. It's the basic principle of business. Provide what the consumers want and in doing so, makes money.
@TotalPS3Fanboy: Its very hard to find a 60GB. And if you're able to find one they cost more then the current PS3 that is out in stores. Also 60GB PS3's are more prone to YLOD (and probably sum B.C. 80GB). I really don't care for Trophies (useless thing that is) and this remastered crap. You're gonna see its going to be an endless cycle. Once the PS4 comes out then everyone will want PS1, PS2, and PS3 remastered stuff. We'll just be buying the same game over and over. Its ridiculous. And sum PS2 games look just fine on PS2 graphics that they don't really need that much remastering at all. The current console generation has become so shallow and spoiled that a classic game can't be left alone without adding a few more hairs or sumthing to the main character. Thank Goodness i still have my PS2 (i only have a 40GB PS3). I own more PS2 games then PS3 games of course. Its just annoying that if i wanna play PS2 games i have to disconnect every cable that's connected to the TV and hook up my PS2.
sony should add backwards compat. still , So that u can enjoy the old sd versions of ps2 games, as well as re buying them in HD.
Microsoft fell flat(as in hitting a lake full of fresh steamy cow dung at 200mph - its supposedly like concrete at those speeds) with their XBOX "Originals". It will be interesting to see how Sony fares with their "Classics". I don't really care though. My 60 GB does a fine job of playing my PS2 games(all of which I bought after getting my PS3) with smooth visuals. That PS3 is totally worth its $500 price tag.
My PS3 plays PS2 games just fine, but they don't give me trophies and they look pretty crappy on an HDTV. I'm all for HD Classics. So far I want them all.
I never owned a playstation 2, i went from ps1 to pc to play everquest... so i have not played many of these games.
no sony did it because they wanted to cut costs to sell the system for 300$ like EVERYONE wanted them to. also many people skipped out on many ps2 games and some of them are hard to find used.
HD Metal Gear... Shadow of the Colossus... 60fps... mmmmmmm.....
This ^ MGS: Snake Eater in HD? Hell yes
nope...they did it to cut costs... this is just a by-product of that decision which is favourable for them. when GoW collection was released, it teased me into buying 2 of my favourite games for 30$ with HD graphics, 60 FPS 2 platinum trophies, no screen tearing and anti-aliasing. It was worth it.
Sony got rid of BC because people ****** and moaned about the price of the console. You want a cheaper console you lose features. This is Sony's way of making some of that money back that would have gotten with the BC feature, re-releasing PS2 games as classics. Glad I've got the original 60GB for when needed.
Don't matter to me. I'm getting this. I don't care if i'm "buying into Sony's scheme". I would like to have all my Sly Coopers on one disc :)
For me, the addition fo HD remakes is better than BC. Upgrade graphics, trophy support, 2 or more games for 29.99. ALl of these things are full of win for me as I didnt have a PS2 last gen. To each their own though.
I have a question. In regard to the 80 gig PS3 models that had backward compatibility, I heard those machines didn't have an Emotion Engine built in, and that they played PS2 games via emulation. If that's true, couldn't Sony just release a firmware update allowing all PS3 consoles to play PS2 games?
No, there were 2 chips that were needed for 100% BC and they were in the 20 and 60 gig models. In the later 80 gig models they removed one of these chips, not the emotion engine. This took down BC to like 80% or something like that. As for you question about a firmware update solving this issue, i really dont know. I would assume its at the very least possible. I thought once PS2 dropped really low that it would be included (prehaps with PSN+?) but it has not happened yet. Maybe SOny thinks they can make more money on hd revisions of games rather including BC and charging for PS2 games on PSN No one knows but sony. Personally i think its done and gone myself. I would perfer HD remakes anyways, but again thats just me.
Cool, thanks for that info.
I may be wrong, but from what I remember there were two PS2-specific chips. One was the processor, which was removed from the 80GB model with BC. But those 80GB BC models still needed to have the second PS2 chip, which was equivalent to the graphics card. This second card was based on EDRAM, similar to the 10MB chip on the 360 processor which handles AA. This EDRAM chip cannot be replaced by emulation because of its huge bandwidth -the chip had low memory size, just 4MB, but offset by huge bandwidth which even modern machines cant replicate. When Sony removed this second chip as well, BC vanished from PS3 machines. I guess the HD versions, other than better graphics, are reprogrammed to eliminate the need for the high-bandwidth PS2 chip.
Incidentally, for the same reason, the next XBOX will be unable to play 360 games unless they add the 10MB EDRAM chip
lets not be silly. Every person knows it was to cut costs.
At the ends of the day Sony is making a machine to sell PS3 games. Supporting PS2 compatibility while nice only adds additional support costs.
this is connected with costs!