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Treyarch: Pre-owned is a problem

"With multiplayer a key selling point for Black Ops, Treyarch community manager Josh Olin has told MCV that Activision and Treyarch would not be employing a similar system to that of THQ’s UFC Undisputed 2010 and EA’s recently announced Online Pass."

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dizzleK2733d ago

yet..... subscription inbound, mark my words.

MightyMark4272733d ago

I agree, we should expect it sooner or later. Heh

Conloles2733d ago

I wonder what Activi$ion's next tactic will be to rape consumers and blame it on second hand sales, another $10 price hike?

ChozenWoan2733d ago (Edited 2733d ago )

The Gaming Industry is doing the same thing the music industry did 10 years ago.

The music industry was thriving when Napster was at it's peak. Everyone was sharing music and then they would actually go out and buy it. This was due to Napster being a good way to find new bands/artists without having to drop $10-$20 bucks on a CD you might not like except that one song on the radio.

Then the music industry hammered Napster and file sharing and now hardly anyone goes out to buy music. Not because they don't want to support their favorite artists, but because they don't want to support the malicious music execs who prosecuted their fellow music lover.

Today, the gaming industry is trying to blame the decline in game sales on second hand sales, when the real problem is game prices. This gen we saw game prices jump from being $30/$40/$50 dollars per game depending on the title's ranking, to a system where it's $60 for all games... including the movie based games.?.

To get games at a reasonable price is why more people are turning to second hand games. And all of these schemes to gimp second hand games will only lead to less game sales, both first and second hand.

The first thing that will happen is gamers will get less for game trades due to a decline in demand due to the second hand games being gimped. The sad part is, gamers are already getting squat for their used games as it is. So in the end, this will have a greater negative impact on gamers than it will on game stores.

Secondly, many gamers will simply wait for first hand games to drop in price so they can still get the full game. This means less week one sales and thus more game studios not getting the necessary revenue they need and thus being forced to close. Which will have a dominoes effect on the gaming market causing a crash similar to (not the same but similar to) that of the 80s.

villevalorox2733d ago (Edited 2733d ago )

Its not a problem at all. Look at the used car market, or anything! Just about everything that is bought can and is sold 2nd hand after the manufacturer purchase. There is just not much they can do to stop it, and if they do do something stupid like rent or subscription then their sales will drop lower than what it would like it is now. Instead of punishing the consumer reward them to keep the game or buy it new for Christs sake, not punish them for buying it used. If they think it is a problem then Devs need to make it easy for the consumer to sell them back the game. I know it sucks to lose out on that money but every mass producer goes through it. GTFOI

Cold 20002733d ago (Edited 2733d ago )

A pre-owned car has A LOT less value than a new car for obvious reasons.

A pre owned game has the EXACT same value as a new game for the simple reason that pre-owned or not its EXACTLY the same thing. Its not like a car where after 5 years the car isnt all that powerful, comfortable, reliable, safe etc etc.

A game just stays the way it is i.e in perfect working condition.

HenryFord2733d ago

This is plain wrong: Cars loose value over time, games (in theory) don't.

And then think about Games like Modern Warfare 2: With no dedicated servers, you need to use the infrastructure which is already in place by the company selling the game. They have to keep the infrastructure in order to let the people play online, hence they need money. Everyone who buys the game in 2nd hand purchase, plays on the server provided by the company, but they arent making any money through it despite their raising capacity...

Wh15ky2733d ago (Edited 2733d ago )

"Its not like a car where after 5 years the car isnt all that powerful, comfortable, reliable, safe etc etc"

What are you on about?

"A game just stays the way it is i.e in perfect working condition."
Unless the disc is scratched/ damaged or the cover/ booklet is missing/ damaged.

Edit: @HenryFord
"Cars loose value over time, games (in theory) don't."
Games do lose value over time. One instance is when it's superceeded by it's sequel, COD4 can be bought new for around £20 these days where as MW2 is generally priced at over £40.

SOAD2733d ago

I would argue that games can also lose value over time. Some multiplayer games lose their popularity over the course of a few months, so a gamer who purchases a game new can enjoy the multiplayer for as long as it is a popular game and then sell it and buy the next popular game.

It also works with single player games. A game that is seen as the pinnacle of graphics technology can lose that title after a few months. Although it's the same exact game, the way people feel about it changes over time. I know it's a minor think to complain about, but sometimes a game's value has to do with its popularity at a given moment.

Like right now, all anyone can talk about is Red Dead Redemption. But a few months from now, the next big thing is going to come along.

It works that way with cars. When the 2011 model of a certain car comes out, the 2010 model loses its charm, and thus the dealer lowers the price to adjust.

With used games it's kind of the same thing. When Gamestop wants to sell the used version of Red Dead Redemption for 50 bucks 6 months after its release, people are no longer willing to pay for it because it has lost it's salience.

madpuppy2733d ago

"Everyone who buys the game in 2nd hand purchase, plays on the server provided by the company, but they arent making any money through it despite their raising capacity..."

It is impossible for used sales to raise capacity, Remember, a publisher is the only entity that produces the game legally. if a publisher sells 1 million copies of a game they have to provide server support for 1 million gamers. reselling 250,000 of that 1 million used WILL NEVER INCREASE SERVER CAPACITY, EVER! It is impossible, I don't know why people fall for this kind of garbage from the publishers. they just hate the idea of not making more money, at least that I understand.

ALSO,Cold2000, games DO drop in value, (value is relative to what people are willing to pay for something) Uncharted 1 is not selling for 60.00 anymore is it? Why?
Call of Duty 1-5 are all equal games that should still be selling for their full retail price to this day if we go by your logic.

villevalorox2733d ago

It's not like it's a pirated copy of the game, if that person would have kept the game and was still playing it and not sold it, it still would only be 1 person on the server. It does not matter if it was the 2nd hand buyer or the original purchaser playing it, it would still cost them the same amount of money to support them.

2EXS2733d ago

1 million ppl got the game new, they would keep it and not sell it only if the game is good and the online is also good, look at MW2... you can't not find it anywhere used, why, because of its online play.
they don't deserve to get pay again, they are not using more resources, they don't have to use more servers because if 1 mil ppl got it new and some of them sold it, there are still 1 mil ppl playing it. so no they don't use up more resources.

HenryFord2733d ago

Well... obviously you never engaged in any marketing-strategies:
If you sell one game to one consumer, everything is allright. Now think of it: If I sell a game to a consumer, the probability that he is going to play this game ALL THE TIME and FOREVER, is near zero (except of those hardcore gamers, and of course hardcore games (like WoW or CS)).
So you give your product a Productlife Cycle, after which the game doesnt demand any more capacities due to the drop in play-sessions.
So for instance:
I buy a game, the publisher thinks it wont be played in 5 years or so and hence he will reduce the server amount avaiable for this game.

Now, if you sell your already purchased game, it is most probable that the purchaser will play again and hence will rise the capacities needed.
If they wouldn account for that, the price for a single copy of the game would rise up (which isnt understandable at all).

I totally agree with you, that this is no way to go, but you have to understand the lies marketing experts keep telling the devs of games.

@Every comment with "there is less value":
Price != Value .
You are right: For old(er) games, it happens very often that the prices drop after time or a new sucessor hit the tables. But that has nothing to do with value!
I can get the EXACT same content for PC Game XYZ by purchasing a 2nd-copy. So in fact: The value rises up, because the price is lower than before. But: The stuff you get for your money (which defines the value of a product) is exactly the same for a lower price.

A game which was declared as the holy grale of graphics doesnt loose value if a new game with better graphics comes along.

madpuppy2733d ago (Edited 2733d ago )

lets not split hairs here, the fact of the matter is in the real world of numbers the publisher does not lose. 1 million is 1 million sold and served. and as for "value" and "price" they tend to walk hand in hand.
The god of war collection sells for 30.00 "new" for the PS3. why didn't Sony sell the collection for 90.00 (45.00 for each game when they were new)
because the consumer wouldn't have seen the value in buying the collection at that price. because value is a perception and it walks hand in hand with price.

This is actually a slippery slope for the Dev and publisher, because if you are talking "market Strategies" you also have to take into consideration cause and effect of a chosen "strategy".
Will doing something as profound as having a used game buyer purchase the ability to go on line with a game that touts on line multiplayer
(essentially, double dipping. the last time I checked, something only the federal Government can legally do.)
and possibly alienate the customer thus possibly losing future sales.

All you need is one loud dedicated voice on the internet to create a PR nightmare and lost sales for a company.

poindat2733d ago

Some nice debating guys, and I only have two simple things to say right now.

First, games DO devalue. Everything does. The moment you crack open that case, the game is automatically no longer worth what you paid for it. The more usage it gets and the more wear and tear it gets, the more it devalues, but TIME itself rather than condition is what acts on the value first and foremost. Even if that game is in perfect working condition, if you have opened it even just once, the value decreases. Of course, there are some exceptions with rarer games, but that is not a typical case.

Second, let's face it: If I'm buying a game used, then there is probably no way in hell that I was going to buy the thing at retail price. That's why I'm buying it used. So why are developers supposedly loosing money that I was never going to give to them? This is why the used market thrives, so gamers can pick up games that they would have otherwise passed on due to price. I believe that, just as with piracy, the effects of used game sales are GREATLY over-exaggerated by the industry.

When I purchase a used game, I legally own that game. The transaction of legal tender acts as the contract, and it's no matter that I'm not purchasing a retail copy. It's just not right for developers to discriminate against these consumers just because there is a supposed (and largely imaginary) small loss of income. If I buy a game used, I still paid my hard earned cash for it, I'm still a legal owner of that game, and I want the same damn game as a consumer purchasing it new would get.

Sure, incentives, such as small exclusive DLC, are fine, but everything is spinning out of control right now, and it's ridiculous.

kevnb2733d ago

people dont buy a car, drive it for a week then sell it. Then the next buddy drives the car for a week and sells it again and so on.

Sarcasm2733d ago

Whether or not comparing video games to the used car market or anything else, why in the world do these companies act as if this is something entirely new??? They've been selling used games since god knows how long. I remember buying used versions of PS1 games.

spektical2732d ago

sooo what cold and henry are saying is that games such as Halo 2 should still be sold at $40?

and that Resistance should be sold for $60.. i mean games dont lose value right? i guess books (which also stay in perfect working condition, aside for normal wear and tear.. which disks go through also) shouldnt be sold at bargain prices, because they shouldnt lose value over time..

LOL the nerve of some people to say video games dont lose value over time, you guys are idiots.

HenryFord2732d ago (Edited 2732d ago )

@spektical:
Wow... you really missed every point made. I never said that the games should be priced as before.
The value is not necessarly indicated by the price...

But what the heck: Im really loosing interest in debating here...

Amazing is how you get my opinions...: I def. think that the used-games market is important, I hate Publishers pushing this market down, and I think EAs games pass is just a spit in the face.

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 2732d ago
Rainstorm812733d ago

Either that or the Death of used game sales.

Once every dev starts to go this rout, you will be forced to buy the game new to get the full experiences, or fork over another 10 bucks which means you might as well had bought it new, with some used game prices.

Activison is so full of it, how well did MW2 sell again?

Enate2733d ago (Edited 2733d ago )

What about people that rent they are inadvertently effecting another market. Which personally I think is the point, they are not stupid. They know renting is a huge market that will be effected by this as well. An if they were thinking these companies would know that renting accounts for a lot of new sales in itself. I can't tell you how many times I've rented a game first and decided I to buy it later because I was able to rent it.

An if I wasn't able to, it would have turned out to be a pass because it was a game I was on the fence about. Though after renting the game an getting the full experience I ended up buying new because the game was so good. An I had one game from gamefly for a month and still ended up buying it new so even a 7 day grace period isn't enough. If they think it won't hurt sales, you just wait. People like to know something they are going to spend a considerable amount of money on is a sure thing. Take that ability away and people will become even more cautious this I promise you.

Don't even get me started on having two or three PS3's in the same house. Now you can't even barrow a game in your own house without paying that's just stupid.

vhero2733d ago (Edited 2733d ago )

Treyarch are a problem. Pre-owned is a solution to saving money for consumers.

sjaakiejj2733d ago

Pre-Owned is a problem mainly due to businesses such as GameStop and GameStation, in which they sell pre-owned games next to new games at a lower price. If it was just for e-bay, publishers wouldn't care. It's these retailers that make the problem, and since they refuse to give a share of the earned money to the publishers, then they are effectively damaging the publishers sales. This gives the publisher one area to step into, and that is making sure that the game can only be played by one household unless an additional amount of money is paid.
I don't blame them. I support them.

spektical2732d ago

gamestop isnt a problem. selling games at $60 is already a problem in itself.

supply and demand, the demand is cheaper games and pre-owened (gamestop) provides that for the consumers. The supplier is already trying to milk us hard by having us fork over $60 for a game, without knowing if the game is a glitchfest (Mw2) or if the game is worthwile (terminator salvation). On top of that, developers are releasing DLC to further gain their financial resources.

I support good devs, but at the same time I support our customer bargaining power way more.

sjaakiejj2732d ago

Considering the amount of money it costs to create a game, piracy and the number of sales a videogame at 60 dollars needs to only repay the budget, you can see that that's a perfectly reasonable price. Of all the games that are created, how many sell over a million? How many games that don't have a budget high enough to need a million sales?
exactly.

outrageous2733d ago (Edited 2733d ago )

Here we go again. One million in sales produces a profit. A game that sells 5+ million is extremely wealthy. Greed is gonna ruin gaming, already is. Not only is this extremely greedy, now they are saying it right to the face of gamers everywhere.

Then they complain about piracy. When you over charge for something over and over you can expect a back lash. Piracy will become rampant. The 360 is suffering RIGHT NOW with a huge piracy problem similar to what happen to the PS2 and still happening to DS and PSP. Look at the sales this year alone. 40 million consoles for 360 and maybe a few million in sales. People don't just stop playing. You will start to here more and more in the coming weeks.

kevnb2733d ago

you don't own any game you buy ever, you only own the disc. If you owned the game, you could do anything you wanted including making your own copies to sell.

ikkokucrisis2732d ago

Woohoo, I love paying extra for stuff!!
I'm gonna tell all of my friends to get this game!!

Treyarch, please call me, I'm your #1 fan!!
Treyarch, I REALLY liked COD3!!
Treyarch, I even know how to pronounce your name (Tr-ey-ar-ch)!!

I want me some Treyarch stew!!

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chak_2733d ago

they'd rather rape your wallet with 30€ DLC than a 10€ online pass.

Logic should I say.

Or disgusting, damn I never know

LordMarius2733d ago

Treyarch is a problem

/fixed

El Nino2733d ago

I dont think thats entirely fair, it was always gonna be difficult to live up to COD4, and while the single player was ordinary they brought zombies into cod, supported the community far better than IW ever did

i'm hopefull for black ops, because no COD game can be worse than MW2 online, its a shambles with horrendus map design, weapons, perks, connectivity, just every single thing online is flawed

radphil2733d ago

Only problem, is that it just seemed like with SP, they just kinda piggy backed on what IW did with previous titles. Thing is the zombie mode in WaW is about the main thing I'll give them. Everything else they have done was average at best.

You are right though in the Black Ops thing, but unfortunately with their previous reputation, along with the whole MW2 thing not going well, I'll have to sit back and wait on it.

El Nino2733d ago

these companies made great games with longevity and replay value (think mgs series, zelda, god of war etc etc) they wouldnt have to worry about the pre-owned market...

also from an online perspective, if the games (ie MW2) wasnt plagued by cheats and numerous flaws then they wouldnt have to worry once again

karlowma2733d ago

Create lasting value, and I wouldn't ever feel the need to resell my games. Continue creating 5-8 hour shoddy single player experiences with the same multiplayer in 90% of games, and I'll drop that shit like it's hot.

It's really not the fault of Gamestop etc. that most of today's games have zero attachment value. I have lots of games dating back to the NES that I will keep forever, because I am attached to them in some way. There are very few games of the current generation of which I feel the same way.

This "dev/publisher hates used game sales" drivel is quickly declining to an us vs. them scenario; typically not a game you want to play with your paying customers.

the-show-stopper2733d ago

exactly, the better the product the more ppl that will buy it new
and if they support it and dont let it fall in shammbles then ppl will stick with that title and buy future games from that developer

kevnb2733d ago

we might get less hugely advertised titles, but our games are made to last.

Pandamobile2732d ago

Exactly. Just look at how many people have bought Counter Strike: Source and TF2 over the years without a spec of advertising.

Senden2733d ago

No the real problem is Treyarch's employers who perverse the game industry with their milking tactics, charging more for games, overpriced dlc, foul mouthed CEO and screwing over their own employees.

There are loads of second hand products which cost a whole range of different companies money.. I don't see why the gaming industry all of a sudden feels the need to whinge.

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