Gamer Limit writes "Japanese RPGs are dying, being replaced with the philosophies of the superior Western RPG. Either that, or JRPGs are evolving to become more like WRPGs. "
Try it the other way around.
That's a opinion. I think they can. One of the biggest one is that not every RPG needs to be able the medieval times and swords and sorcery or Dungeons and Dragons type stuff. Sure we have seen a few games diverge from that(namely Mass Effect and Fallout) but so many more Western RPG's are the same ole same ole and they after awhile start to feel the same. I hardly ever get that feeling in JRPG's. They almost always feel like they have a unique world. The Final Fantasy series love it or hate it is a good example. None of those worlds feel the same. To many series base it's lore off of a D and D model and when you do that the game is gonna feel the same to every other game that followed that model. That's just a opinion. The settings and worlds in JRPG's are MUCH more diverse then stuff I have seen from the west. That's something I think the west could learn.
I prefer JRPG's
Its not that the JRPG as a genre sucks now, its just that the focus of the industry has changed and unfortunately the Japanese developers for the first time since the industry began have found themselves struggling to figure out what to do. They keep trying to abandon their culture, which is part of what made those games so great, and instead try to appeal to a wider audience, with Square leading the charge in that department. Its the developers faults, its not that the JRPG is no longer a good or beloved genre. Its just the developers can't make them like they used to. They need to stop trying to be something they aren't, and instead embrace their unique qualities that make Japanese games different from Western games. I think part of the blame lies with the Japanese publishers like Square, pushing their developer teams to be something that they aren't. They keep trying to make them make games that are more like Western games, when they should instead acknowledge the two cultures are different and let the developers do what they do best. The Japanese have always had such an original and creative imagination and really need to start utilizing that strength they have. I think a lot of the developers have lost the passion they once had. But I still have hope, Xenoblade and The Last Story seem to be headed in the right direction. Both exclusives on a Japanese console that involves a lower development cost therefore less risk.
i couldnt had said it better myself Millah bubbles for you
Lol no.. JRPG's suck Even Final Fantasy has lost its charm now i didnt like it to begin with. If anything Japanese devs need to get with the times.
@ Millah No shyte! JRPGs need to stop trying to conform to western RPGs. The genres are very different. JRPGs are unique as they've always been. I love Star Ocean 4 and applaud tri-Ace for not making it based on western ideals. Multiple sources rated it a mediocre 5 or 6 out of 10. These days too many gamers expect too much from JRPGs, labeling the genre as un-innovative, behind the times, and just lacking. I say the genre rocks BECAUSE it's unyielding to western games. JRPGs have once again become the niche genre they were before Final Fantasy VII. FF7 brought the genre out of the niche for a few generations, but now gamers' inflated expectations have hurt the genre and now it's gone back to the niche roots it always enjoyed. S-E attempted to make a JRPG that would appeal to the west and they failed miserably to appeal to fans in FF13. JRPGs are what they are, and us players of them love them for what they are. Western RPGs are different in nature and Japanese RPGs should not copy them. We're seeing a real shortage of true JRPGs this gen so far. SO4 is a great game that doesn't follow western criticism, tri-Ace knows their audience and those of us love them for it. Both genres are different, and while both can learn from each other, it's important that each remain unique.
Gradually over the years, WRPGs have really started to reign over JRPGs, and to take a stance on such a subject is really interesting in my opinion. Really interesting read and a some pretty valid points.
You beat me to it.
I can't help but bring up Square-Enix who for the last few years have been trying to westernize everything and failed miserably. Western Games should stay Western and Japanese Games should stay Japanese, and then gamers have the best of both worlds.
Hope not. I enjoy them as two distinct entities. I don't want a TES to have a more structured plot. That would mean less player freedom. I don't want the protagonist to be less faceless. That defeats the purpose of projecting the player into the game. WRPGs also have plenty of humour without inserting random bits of silliness. Since the tone is often more serious and sombre, it would be out of place and unnecessary mood whiplash imo. I can't think of too much WRPGs should poach from JRPGs.
The only thing JRPGs have over WRPGs is they aren't as glitchy. I think Bioware and Bethesda have shown that west can produce the highest qualiy of RPG. And never once make a whiney emo kid the hero. Side note, JP company From Software's 3D Dot Game Heroes and Demon's Souls are two RPGs that break away from the repetitive emo crap Japan has been making the past few years...kudos
...then, my friend, if you don't like the typical whiny emo crap, I'd recommend: Vagrant Story Earthbound Mother 3 Nier Probably Drakengard, but that one was waay too flawed. Folklore And alot of other JRPGs. Just because the most famous series include whiny teenagers doesn't means less recognized ones don't break the mold.
They aren't as glitchy, but that's because they're more linear. It's a lot easier to debug a game with meticulously planned scenarios than a TES where you're giving the player all this freedom. As long as the glitch isn't too damaging, I don't really mind. It's a decent trade off for a huge world to explore at my leisure.
I what world are SE games becoming westernized? If you call long a$$ cut scenes summonsing stuff animals and riding chickens "Westernized" then you and the Japanese need your heads checked. Being from the west, I know we like games that are more mature and believable: When someone is shot or stabbed (Blood); When fighting, I don't want to give the other guy a chance to get some shots in; I don't want to summons baby blue and yellow monsters. You see where I am going with this? I am not ten and I don't have a feminine side that needs to be tapped. You feel me?
I like JRPG's just not when they're overly animeish, or big eyed loud mouth retards. Some Western RPG's have good Lore like any normal RPG, they just seem to fall flat in combat & presentation. Like I said at the bottom they're both one in the same and both need to check their credentials.
I used to enjoy JRPG's a lot more when I was younger. I think one of the reasons I don't do as much anymore is that the most of the time the hero (protagonist) is to young, secondly western RPG's are darker than its japanese counterpart (not only the color pallet often used is different, but how the stories are told, the enemies you face (how ridiculous would it look if you had to battle a drop of water or a cactus in a western rpg?, while when I was a kid the monsters in western RPG's did scare me lol), and finally, the motives of why your group is fighting in JRPG's are sometimes to childish/naive and their behavior are as well (even the older blokes you get in your party, who sometimes are already parents or 10 years older than you, the protagonist, are still behaving like 12 year olds...) . Now that I'm older I regret that the JRPG's did not age as well, to my eyes they still seem to childish. I could still enjoy them and have a good time, but I won't be able to get immersed in the world or really involved with my charachters, because more often than not their behaviour or personalities are that of kids, wich unfortunatly I am no more.
Anything that is quintessentially Japanese terrifies me.
While I hear what you're saying, I really don't like the whimsical in my games. It make the game seem childish.
Which are you implying are whimsical? I would hardly call either Final Fantasy or the Elder Scrolls whimsical
I think both of them go to extremes too often. Eternal Sonata has a cool premise, but I'll never be able to play it because of its annoying cuteness-overload style. Dragon Age Origins might be a fun game, but I remember its ads on TV - they were such a weak attempt to look badass.
Maybe story telling and art but not gameplay I hate turn based
yeah i agree im not a fan of turn base but the story telling and art are better in JRPG.
>Implying all JRPGs are turned based >Implying combat from buldur's Gate/Dragon Age/ect is any good either Faztkillar, maybe you should try a few JRPGs/WRPGs before you stereotype them.
I tend to agree that JRPG storylines are more intriguing. They are able to sink their claws into me far more than Westerns, but the turned-based fighting has to stop.
I don't even think its so much as the turn based needs to stop to be honest. If that were completely true then a lot of people's favorite rpgs wouldn't still be on a PS1 console. Whether that be Xenogears, Suikoden II, FFVII, FFVIII, Legend of legaia, Legend of dragoon, vagrant story an more. The biggest problem I personally see is the same thing that's been said above. Jrpg designers are losing sight of what made their gaames what they are in the first place. I have yet to see a story this gen from a jrpg that can stand up to any of those games I mentioned above. An to me that is the biggest problem on top of the fact that. They are trying to do a lot of bending to the western world and that's the last thing they should be doing. It is in turn what is hurting them, jrpg fans want the stories that took them in for hours on end. Like Xenogears and the others I mentioned above. I still personally enjoy two to three times a year playing. Xenogears, Suikoden II, FFVIII, Legend of Legaia, Vanguard Bandits and Front mission 3 the real front mission not that evolved garbage they slapped a name on. An as far as combat systems go I don't mind a higher paced combat system but don't give me something toned down in the process. I love Xenogears, Legend of Legaia and Suikoden II all for their unique and fun approaches to combat in multiple ways in each game. I was never bored watching slow uninteresting combat unfold. That or waiting for a slow drawn out story to move on to the good part because those games had the best of both.
I believe that they can in fact learn from JRPG's, but mostly on what not to do. Forgive my bias, but I cannot stand the overly stereotypical and yawn-inducing storylines or the cliche characters that seem to make up the entirety of every JRPG.
I prefer JRPG storylines to WRPG storylines much more
thing i learned from western games is add guns it well sell, and if you add gore you add a plus. lol and add mp we dont care bout story pimp my char tooz.
it's the darn guys. in JRPGs the guys don't have any testosterone at all and are on the verge of being girls, but then in western games the dudes look juiced up on roids (ex. Gears) just find a medium for F sakes
Every game that has tried to appeal to the opposite audience, fails. FF13? Crap Nier? Crap (The gameplay wasn't bad but the parts they changed to make it appeal to the western audience suck ass. Stick with what you're good at.
Bro, anon, wich parts they changed to appeal to the western audience? The Father? It was actually better, IMO, than a faggot white haired girly looking JRPG MC.
ever consider JRPG's are faltering because they are trying too hard to appeal to the west? or that they are faltering because western RPG's are changing in a different direction whereas JRPG's are remaining the same because thats how they like them in the eastern market? fine, RPG's have definitely evolved more, but that doesn't mean JRPG's suck, its just a smaller market =/ still, i agree, JRPG are directions are usually bolder and take more risks than western ones... i enjoy seeing random JRPG artworks / levels vs WRPG typical LoTR crap
yea wrpg has changed so much with the guns, and customizing, and responses you can choose, and guns, and guns jrpgs never did none of these.wrpgs cant be touched now of day with these games i cant tell if im playing an rpg of a fps. yeeaaah WRPGs FTW!!!! and i do agree they need grow some ball and stop sucking others
Are you calling Lord of The Rings crap!? shame on you bjornbear, shame on you
jrpg's are getting more stale as the years progress. they need to come with some new ideas than the the normal, give the character magic powers, weapons and go fight some enemy that you dont know who is until 100 hrs into the game. Jrpg's are getting slow, they need to pick up the pace before its too late (only market will be Japan).
I prefer the playstyle of western games more; they offer a lot more personality customization than JRPGS. While plots have kept constant throughout the RPG era (either hemisphere) I feel like I am able to inject myself into a western RPG than an eastern. I would rather help write the part; not follow along verbatim.
I personally like both and I believe there is room for both. I to love customizing in wrpgs like Fallout 3 and Mass Effect 2. An I understand where you are coming from where the story could feel more personally an sometimes I enjoy that. Though there is the other side of things for me. Mass Effect 2 is a better example of unisex writing but they also had to do twice the work an for what it is it works well. My main issue with that for all games is for one that would get stale. It would also leave no room for character designers to give us memorable storylines designed around a desired cast like movies do. Which I find more often then not usually gives a better personal story with that character in mind. An its not just RPGS that this is true its all genres. Asking for it in everything is the equivalent of asking a casting director to design every leading role in a movie as unisex. An you will see how quickly that gets complicated. I like the Mass Effect approach to unisex story telling. An on the other hand I also love being introduced to an amazing story with a dedicated lead character like Xenogears and Suikoden II. An even the MGS series, solid snake wouldn't be who he is today if the role was written to cover two angles. An the same goes for tons of memorable lead characters we have grown to love over the years. I do agree jrpgs do need more customization but it doesn't always have to come in the form of designing your own character. One thing they surely need to do is recognize clothing and weapon changes that you make visually all the time as a standard. As well as a multitude of other possibilities depending on the world you are playing in. Everything from ships to your home or whatever else. Oh an before I'm done another good example is Ezio from ACII. I loved the character and story that was written with him in mind. An I also liked the customization the game let me do as well. These are all good examples of how the many different variants of unisex and specific character writing and customizing can take place.
People like to judge jrpg based on ff. I doubt any of you haters have played any decent ones outside of ff.
obama u usually bs but you gotta point here
wrpgs arent that good in fact theres only 2 half way decent devleopers.....thats it. JRPGs overall are still lightyears better
I think JRPG stories are too corny and WRPG stories are too bland, in general. The strength of WRPGs story-wise isn't the story itself, it's more all the little things you see and do through your journey. And for JRPGs it's the character development. As for the gameplay, I tend to prefer the variety and customization of WRPGs, but the strategy aspect of JRPGs could definitely be exploited to make the games much better.
All genres are devolving to one type of game: shooting each other online. PEW-PEW-PEW!
Look the truth is that JRPG's need to evolve and I’m not saying they need to evolve to cater the western market on the contrary JRPG's need to focus on their target audience the Japanese. If you look at WRPG's from Bioware they don’t cater to the other markets they just make the best damn game they can make. In my opinion Mass Effect and The Elder Scrolls are master peaces but so are Final Fantasy 7 and Chrono Trigger. Japanese devs like Square Enix need to look back and see what made those games so great.
my biggest problem with jrpgs is the cliches. ooh heres the annoying kid, heres the spunky female childhood friend, maybe theres a talking animal or two. do you think they'll fight a resurrected evil or an overbearing government in this one? the stories are shit and the pacing is for the birds, i don't care if its an rpg, it shouldn't take hour upon hour to get started. i don't mean to indict all jrpgs, i LOVE shin megami and i like the mana khemia and ar tonelico games. but generally when i think of jrpgs i think of square and they've become a parody of themselves. i like wrpgs because i grew up with the ad&d/dragonlance archetypes and i like the freedom they offer. if i wanted a strict, linear narrative i'd just read a book.
My biggest problem with WRPG's OH here's the bitter Ex-knight/Space marine-Gimme a big sword/ moar guna and a partner with giant breasts and maybe an elf/lizard man YEEEAAA superior!!! seriously? WRPGs have their hang ups too
I think you're referring to FPS'.
I would rather play as a psycho blood thirsty space marine and his partner with giant boobs, than an emo spikey haired 12 years old who is trying to deal with the lost of his mom while trying to save the old. As dull as WRPGs characters are at times, they are no where nearly as repulsively annoying as the preteens that infest JRPGs.
Making JRPGs to appeal towards the west is a lost cause. Although places like Europe and America are different culturally and in general, Asian culture is even more vastly different than ours. JRPGs obviously are plasttered with Japanese culture. Usually centered on the lives of there teenage youth mixed with Anime humor. Personally, I find neither appealling but some JRPG devs really take it to a neat unique plateu that makes me sort of mentally block all the Anime and lame humor crap.
Then the Western media needs to stop putting square on such a high pedastle... They suck, all they have left talent-wise is Normura. From Software has knocked it out of the park twice in less than a year (Demon's Soul and 3D dot) Both are JRPG's made by Japanese developers who still know how to make a JRPG. (Neither one is turn-based, both are completely different from each other) Hell even Nintendo makes awesome JRPG's with their paper mario and pokemon series and a new earthbound is always welcome. Atlus is working on Persona 5. And Mistwalker could make a truly impressive JRPG if Sakaguchi would stop playing it safe (He made Square who they are: Final Fantasy 1-10, Parasite Eve, Chrono series, Super Mario RPG, etc. He had some part in creating them). Sega has Valkaria. Sony has plenty from their own history to revive (Seriously where the fuck is Dark Cloud 3 or legend of dragoon 2?) Here's an idea: look elsewhere. The JRPG market is doing some amazing stuff, but idiots have tunnel vision and see Square fall from grace so they write off the entire genre. Look what Capcom did in bringing the fighting genre back to the spotlight, JRPGs just need that spark to get everyone on the same page. (I'm serious Earthbound 4 announcement at E3, and I'll convert to wii fanboy)
No, because western people lacks depth. I know it hurts, but it`s the truth.
I do agree that JRPG still has certain charm cause they are created with very unique world (weird in a sense) while WRPG are very similar (in the same setting) or similar to the world portray in the book (Dungeon Dragon/forgotten Realm/Sci-fi). Given WRPG have very solid game play, story and freedom while JRPG can be a hit and miss Hit = Lost Odyssey. It has innovative short story telling that based heavily on philosophical ideas (much better than CG in creating relatable characters since it relies on each player's own imagination), mature, likable characters like Kaim and Janson (quite refreshing from the usual immature teenagers seen in other JRPGS) Major miss = Star Ocean 4 for example.) SO4 is trying too hard in portraying that charm but fail miserably with poor jokes, bad acting, annoying characters..... As they try to move toward more WRPG, i guess they do lose that charm. Sadly game like Lost Odyssey, Folklore, Tale of vesperia, or Valkyrie Chronical were put on the back drop. There are still many good JRPGs out there, but many gamers tend to ignore them for quick gratifications, gore, blood, violent, and well FPS.
They are both one in the same.
JRPGS are so annoying emo that it's impossible to appeal to the western market.
The JRPG design has become cliche
Here's a good start for JRPG: Stop catering to pedos with all the preteens in mini-skirts and what is essentially bra's.
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