Submitted by egm_hiphopgamer 1903d ago | video

E3'10: Natals Last Chance To Stop PS Moves Momentum Backlash Episode 2

Sony has been showing while Microsoft has only been talking but, when Microsoft speaks true power is and has been shown.

This year will be no different as Microsoft is ready to finally show us what Project Natal is all about but there's one thing standing in its way and that's Sony.

Sony also have Natal type of capabilities as well so who will win the motion control battle and most of all who will cut into the Nintendo market the most.

Special Guest On The Show Will Be
Al Zamora (Dual Shockers.com) Torrence Davis (Thebitbag.com) Envy (XNA Developer) Hated Greatness begin_of_the_skype_highlightin g      end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Thebitbag.com)

Listen, Watch, And Decide who represented their arguments the best on todays show. (Project Natal, PS3, Wii, Xbox 360)

Attached Video
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Moonboots  +   1903d ago
Microsoft has a lot to prove but how much momentum does Move really have in the mainstream? It seems Move still has a lot to prove itself.

Sony is being a lot more hands on and showing it in practical gaming applications(props!) while MS is taking a hands off/private showing approach.. that makes me more skeptical, but could also lead to me being more impressed if it delivers on the promise. I am going into it with my expectations low just to be safe.
-Alpha  +   1903d ago
I have to agree.

There is far too much confidence in the products and none of them have yet to release. Can we at least wait till they RELEASE before acting as if they will be vastly popular or amazing?

I have a lot of confidence in MOVE, but I'm not going to sit here and act as if it's going to destroy Natal. Both approach motion wars in very distinct ways and are in no way comparable IMO.

If HHG is talking sales (I haven't the time to watch his show atm) there is no telling what will happen with Move and Natal. If he is talking game library we HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING YET.

And Natal hasn't got to prove anything to Move. How can it "prove" something to Move if both are so damn different? Really, both companies have invested in two different paths, so why the need to constantly force a comparison?

As for Move's momentum, once again, let's please wait to see how it does. I know there is hype for Move, and I know there is a lot of high hopes, but that doesn't conclude proof. Price, packaging, games, support, and the traditional use of the gaming controller all will play a role in how successful these middle-stage add-on peripherals will do. Anything can happen, there is so much we have yet to see and know but we're all so adamant on declaring a winner that has to crush and obliterate the rival product.

With all that said both products will showcase how far they've come at E3 and it will be clearer how they will turn out at launch. We've only heard of these products last year and you can bet both MS and Sony are more confident with the year's worth of work they've been putting in. Natal has definitely been more smoke & mirrors, and MS has been more secretive, but I don't understand how this has transpired to "Natal is weak and doomed". MS has to prove Natal is pivotal, but that's got nothing to do with Move and more to do with Natal simply proving itself as an eligible product for consumers
#1.1 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
ALFAxD_CENTAURO  +   1903d ago
''And Natal hasn't got to prove anything to Move. How can it "prove" something to Move if both are so damn different? Really, both companies have invested in two different paths, so why the need to constantly force a comparison?''

I agree.
Hank Hill  +   1903d ago
I think Natal has to prove that it can properly show what the bottom of an avatar's shoe looks like.
Nike  +   1903d ago
@Hill: Sooooo original. Why South Park hasn'thired you for your skills as a comedian is beyond me. /s
#1.2 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(7) | Report | Reply
Inside_out  +   1903d ago
It's all about E3....M$ had an incredible E3 last year...star studded with great moments....Expect the same this year...They put a whole day aside for Natal...ALL the momentum is for Natal...Sony is still trying to prove that the " MOVE" is different than a Wii...

It's all about E3...Sony has already shown everything....Natal is Voice activated...has voice recognition...its wireless...controllerless...wh at has everyone scene so far...Red balls...lol...big surprises...this is how you build anticpation....Remember...One whole day set aside for Natal...Hmmmm....
Immortal321  +   1902d ago
the ps3 can only do everything.....
the competitors does!
Hallmark Moment   1903d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(5)
Nicholas Cage  +   1903d ago
no offense...
but they have not showed any natal footage exept the infamous big red ball. ive seen a bunch of videos showcasing the playstation move and how amazing it is. if natal is so powerful and great, why arent they showing it? i think because they overestimated their technology and when they seen sonys playstation move they got scared, and scrapped the projects they already had and are currently trying to come up with new ones unsuccessfully. thats why they are hiding it.microsoft has got themselves between a rock and a hard place and i think sony has a more than good chance in wiping natal out.
#3 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(21) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
IHateYouFanboys  +   1903d ago
correction - they havent shown YOU any other footage. they have shown plenty behind closed doors.

remember, Ubisoft alone were working on no less than 12 - yes, twelve - Natal games 6+ months ago. when Natal was first announced they said that there are between 70 and 80 percent of the video game industry publishers already on board making games for it.

expect all to be revealed at E3, release date and price too.
Hotel_Moscow   1903d ago | Trolling | show
BYE  +   1903d ago
I agree...
Who cares about what's happening behind closed doors.

Everytime a new, shaky mobile phone video about a person playing with red balls pops up, the whole internet goes apeshit.

They need to show something substantial to give people a reason to hype it. Sane people, that is.
R2D2  +   1902d ago
Thats what E3 is for.
I would rather be surprised than know before hand what we will see at E3.
Nathan Drake2   1903d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(2)
RatFuker  +   1903d ago
hallmark im getting the feeling of jealousy.
i ALSO nicholas do not understand why they are NOT showing NATAL. i TOO agree microsoft is AFRAID.
00  +   1903d ago
something ain't right
Sunday was 3 days ago unless...my god hiphopgamer found out about the time inhibitory vortex, all is lost.
#6 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
littletad  +   1903d ago
Need to prove themselves. They are going after Nintendo's audience, literally, after all.
IHateYouFanboys  +   1903d ago
Move has momentum? first ive heard of this lol.

Microsoft have the 'wow' factor up their sleeve. Move is more accurate, move is more adaptable to current games, no doubt.......but Move is Wii 2.0.

NOONE has done full body 3D motion control like Natal. when people see it in action they pay attention. when people see Move in action they think 'oh yeah its like the wii'.

cue the angry sony fanboys disagrees.......
ALFAxD_CENTAURO  +   1903d ago
I'm a PC Fanboy (and proud, so what?) so I disagree.

You forget that besides of using Move, the PS Eye can also detect the Body, from legs to the head, Voice and Face Recognition, so, don't be surprised if a game comes out with those features for PS3 =).
#8.1 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(7) | Report | Reply
IHateYouFanboys  +   1903d ago
the PSEye cannot do what Natal does though.

PSEye does 2D motion recognition, Natal does 3D motion tracking.

PSEye is a 2D camera. it can NEVER do 3D motion tracking. if you move backwards the PSEye has no idea that you moved backwards. all it does is take 1 frame and compare it to the next and scan for changes in the picture. its like taking 2 screenshots of a game, 1 frame apart, and pointing out the changes.

Natal on the other hand finds you, maps your body to a skeleton, and TRACKS that skeleton in real time. you can be standing still and it still knows where you are, and where your individual limbs are. if you stand still on the PSEye, it has no idea that theres even a person there.

Yes, i know the PSEye can do voice and facial recognition - thats not up for debate. what it CANNOT *EVER* do, and this is NOT DEBATABLE, is 3D motion tracking. its like trying to get a phone that doesnt have a camera to take a picture - it is literally impossible.

this is what you guys dont seem to understand. motion detection is NOT the same as motion tracking. the PSEye does the former, Natal does the latter.
#8.1.1 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(13) | Report
Mc Fadge  +   1903d ago
Move can't do 3D tracking of humans
But it can do "3D" tracking of a sphere, which is what the Move is. I say "3D" because it's still 2D, the "3D" is just cleverly using principles of perspective.

If you've seen more recent tech demos, you'd know that it can then assume a human torso and arms based on where two spheres move after starting in a predetermined state and with facial recognition.
#8.1.2 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(2) | Report
SonyRulez  +   1903d ago
"If you've seen more recent tech demos, you'd know that it can then assume a human torso and arms based on where two spheres move after starting in a predetermined state and with facial recognition."

but once its determined where the torso and arms are, it has no way of tracking them. again, it can only guess where they are based on where your hands are. in other words, if you hold your arms completely still but are ducking up and down with your whole body, it will still think youre standing completely still.
IRetrouk   1903d ago | Trolling | show
SonyRulez  +   1903d ago
can you please explain to me how a basic 2D camera is able to do 3D tracking?

please, im all ears. the ONLY reason natal can do 3D tracking is because of the infra-red emitter and camera that measures depth. the PSEye doesnt have this. that is the ONLY way for a camera to measure depth currently.

again, the PSEye DOES NOT HAVE THIS. you can argue all you want, and find examples of things that FAKE 3D detection (like EyePet) and Move, but it doesnt change the fact that it is NOT 3D.

so come on, im throwing down the gauntlet to ANYONE - how can the EyeToy, a 2D camera, do 3D motion tracking? since you all KNOW that it can, surely you can all explain it to us......
TotalPS3Fanboy  +   1903d ago
"how can the EyeToy, a 2D camera, do 3D motion tracking?"

Through the awesomeness of math, physics, and next-gen tech, all combine into something Sony called Move.

"can you please explain to me how a basic 2D camera is able to do 3D tracking?...
...surely you can all explain it to us......"

We don't need to explain it to you. Sony already did. You should watch those tech demos.
#8.1.6 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(3) | Report
Qui-Gon Jim  +   1902d ago
@ SonyRulez & IHateYouFanboys
Yes, you are right that the camera cannot do 3D. The way Move works is that the camera tracks the sphere, which is of a known size, then takes it's "apparent size" and calculates how far away it is based on comparing apparent size to actual size. It is a very simple trigonometric calculation, and so can be done very quickly by the PS3.

Try this: close one eye and hold your thumb close in front of the open eye, then move your thumb away. Your thumb's apparent size gets smaller. It is one of the ways your brain perceives 3D - along with stereoscopic effects - and is the principle behind Move.

Your are right that the PSEye cannot do 3D on its own, but it does 3D tracking of the Move controller exceedingly well. That combined with head tracking will make for a lot of possibilities.

Natal has an edge in that it doesn't require the controller to do the 3D. It CAN "see" YOU as a three-dimensional object (PSEye sees in 2D, then figures out the 3D), but Move has been shown to do some pretty impressive stuff by tracking only the controllers and the head.


I think both systems will do some really cool things, but they have different strengths.
Qui-Gon Jim  +   1902d ago
wanted to add something...
Natal does have an edge in that it doesn't require a controller, but Move has an edge in that it requires very little system resources, and so can very easily be implemented as an alternate control scheme in just about any game.
Narutone66  +   1903d ago
Natal is
PS Eye 2.0. If you want to go by your logic.
#8.2 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(7) | Report | Reply
NastyLeftHook  +   1903d ago
i hate to dabble in the disgusting world on fanboyism, but i cannot believe how obligated you are to try to prove to "sony fanboys" there wrong. im starting to wonder who the real fanboy is, there are many articles that raise my suspitions.
Samk18  +   1903d ago
PSEye has some 3D detection.
I think ur statement about the PSeye being 2D is false. I dont know if it does full body 3D detection but it does some 3D detection. Here is a link to show you that it can track the movements of the hand to move objects where you can play with the eyepet.

SonyRulez  +   1903d ago
that is not 3D detection.

youre tricked into thinking its 3D because youre thinking of the floor on the picture as being 3D. the eyepet simple chases your movement on a 2D plane - horizontally and vertically. i know, ive got the game lol.

if you have ANYTHING moving above about 3/4 of the way up the screen, it thinks that you are dangling something in the air and jumps up for it. if you move anything below that line, it acts as if it is something moving on the ground. its very basic stuff, and its 2D.

there is NOTHING 3D about EyePets motion detection.
madpuppy  +   1903d ago
IHateYouFanboys, with a name like that...
you sure sound like an fanboy. Unless you mean that you hate only PS3 fanboys because you are an Xbox fanboy?
unrealgamer58  +   1903d ago
maybe If microsoft had actually (legitimately) shown gameplay of natal people wouldn't be mocking It.
niceguywii60  +   1903d ago
Nah they have shown gameplay of the tech demo game and will show the launch lineup at E3 as announced. No one is mocking Natal, the mass media, celebs and others that have played Natal say good things about Natal and most say it's the future. It's just PS3 fanboys making paranoid noise, angry they can't smear Natal before people can make up their own minds about it.

Who won't show gameplay? Square Enix?, UbiSoft?, Konami, LionHead? LOL Microsoft's E3 is so huge PS3 fanboys don't even care about their own console's E3

Angry and frustrated you won't be able to smear it before the Natal event. You have nothing to work with and no chance to smear it before the masses of the world see it and that is eating up PS3 fanboys inside. The only thing you got is to create conspiracy theories about Natal's secrecy trying to score PS3 Move points based from Sony's desperation Move reveals.
#9.1 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
zekks2k9  +   1903d ago
niceguywii60 i agree with u totally....lol.....u fanboys opinions don't matter bcuz celebs ,media and people of importance who have actually had a demo experience "behind closed doors"..the same doors u want to look through have had alot of great remarks about natal....i love wat ms is doing too...haha....make y'all sweat then bam !!!!!!! THE GREAT UNVEILING!!!!
#9.1.1 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report
R2D2  +   1902d ago
I think MS
is trying not to show there cards until E3 because motion control ideas are hard to come by and only a few people have the imagination and skill to implement it right.

Can you imagine what some one like KOJIMA can do with NATAL if it delivers what MS promises.
Ivan Drago IV  +   1903d ago
The problem with natal..
Is it will be hell for developers to make exisiting popular franchises for the Natal.. I mean just think of all the established popular gaming franchises like Tiger Woods that has seen huge success on the Wii, it will be so easy for EA to just make a Tiger woods game for the move.

But for natal how will that work? Its going to take a long long time for Devs to get use to developing good games that involve no controllers, a huge challenge. With the move everyone already knows how to make practical games both hardcore and casual games a like.

Move right now is on solid footing.. I was very impressed with how it worked for Socom and very impressed with the "casual" games they showed.. I have thought about all the possiblities and i honestly just cant think how Natal will work with shooters, platformers etc.

I can perfectly imagine how Move could work for all genres..
devilSPAWN1977  +   1903d ago
the only wow factor that NATAL has its a better PSEye. Don't get me wrong, NATAL looks cool, but I'm not making any assumptions until E3, till I see the games that each has for their new motion control. The playstation move has the controller that looks like a Wii controller, just more accurate and in HD, so playstation is hoping to take the Wii owners who want to game in HD as well as have a blueray player all in one. Some people won't go for NATAL for one reason, it looks a lot like the PSEye. And, for what I understand, MOVE will be cheaper(which will be a first this gen) than NATAL
Nike  +   1903d ago
Yawn. Got any other non-Sony pandering opinions and show names you didn't blatantly steal from the WWE, HHG?

Didn't think so.
ManGastaS  +   1903d ago
it is good to know that
even HHG is so afraid of Natal!
DFresh  +   1903d ago
Motion Controls = Fail.
Both controllers are not gonna have long lasting appeal.
I guarantee you everybody will play these new motion controllers for a week, get bored of it, and go straight back to the controllers they were using before Move and Natal which are analog controllers and keyboard & mouse.
Also I feel w/ these controllers only the 1st party devs will take advantage of it and the 3rd party devs will just use Move and Natal as a gimmick just like the Wii controller to gain more software sales w/ shovel ware.

I don't give a f*** which motion controller is better your not gonna get me to switch from the traditional gaming controls which would be analog controls and keyboard & mouse.

I'm happy w/ my Dual Shock 3 on PS3 and my analog controller on Xbox 360.
Don't really feel like spending money on some controls that will just be a gimmick and die out later on down the road.

$200 for Project Natal and $100 for Move?
Really people?
Gr81  +   1902d ago
: )
A lot of fight in you..I like that. I also like that you hate Motion Controls regardless of the company who makes it. I applaud you for being true to you principles lol.

Respect +1.
DFresh   1903d ago | Spam
DFresh   1903d ago | Spam
pinkyxyz  +   1903d ago
i've bought every single PS3 eye game on psn
and I can vouch that games with out a controller get tiresome and boring, like seriously who the hell wants to hold their arms up in the air 4 a 10-15 minute Burnout paradise racing match??? Like seriously just think about it for a minute.....
SixZeroFour  +   1903d ago
maybe ppl that actually dont mind being active?

i myself go outside to play sports when in the mood (preferably basketball, especially with a court nearby) and wouldnt necessarily get into the whole 3d motion "fad" but if natal was reasonably priced, id get it for my family and friends just for sh*ts and giggles from time to time...if it was close to the price of a new console, im definitely passing on it

*Note* i only mentioned natal cause i only own a 360 and it would be the only one i can get, but same would be applied to move if i had a ps3
unrealgamer58  +   1903d ago
lol you mad
aryan_irani  +   1903d ago
get money. keep it gangsta
fnitcorp123   1903d ago | Immature | show | Replies(2)
Bigboss19  +   1903d ago
Can we just wait in tell E32010 to see whats going on with Move and Natal? Let the Exclusive games talk for them selfs....
#21 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
palaeomerus  +   1903d ago
I can tell that most of you didn't even listen to the backlash.

None of you are mentioning how about 20 minutes in the audio from the 'natal and move' clips (used to provide some video) stops beign muted and gets louder than the people who are 'arguing' so you can't hear what they are saying.
SixZeroFour  +   1903d ago
yea, when i was reading the comments while "listening" to this vidicle (should have been a podcast) i thought it had something to do with my internet or a video in another tab was playing, cause i didnt see anyone comment on it...it was only till i went to the actual site to see if it was different and read those comments that i realized that it wasnt just me

he should have his usual vidicles on one day and then a backlash PODCAST the next...this shouldnt be a vidicle as well, at least not the way this one was put together...didnt see the first ep, so i dont know if it was just this one
Solotov  +   1903d ago
Playstation Move has Momentum? Right now, neither has any
Meryl  +   1903d ago
no one talking about move really fanboys are stupid, maybe you have been in a cave for the past few months because sony have been showing it off everywhere (almost), and lots of people are coming back really positive from using it, only a few selected people have got to use natal and so far all i have seen is lots of mixed reactions and reporting it's awkward and it lags, natal is going to be an utter dissapointment

Related video
Sir_Ken_Kutaragi__   1903d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(1)
harrisk954  +   1903d ago
"Sony has been showing while Microsoft has only been talking but, when Microsoft speaks true power is and has been shown."

No offense to HHG, but can anyone tell me what the heck this means?? I don't mind HHG as much as some on this site, but if you are going to do a blog and call yourself a journalist, please learn to write and use proper grammar!
#26 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
fnitcorp123  +   1903d ago
im a gamer i love gaming natal is the future iv been waiting to see
atari 2600 , master system , nes ,snes n64 , genesis , my old things
dreamcast , ps1 ps2, ps3 , xbox360 ,xbox i had an neogeo i lost in a fire when i was younger at my freinds home i was the only one to have it my dad was a truck driver / tech nut so from computers to video games i was in for life , i see where the game world is headed i only wish i could make something myself for natal, i got an ideal of a game i wish could be made ,i have a game in my mind that uses natal, 3 years ago i wrote it down and mail it to myself ,the game i was thinking about is like VR for real, i see ms going in that direction ,i have a ideal for a game that uses glasses that plug in to ur controller with a mic attached
though the glasses which has a rumble tech of some kind im able to see
the things in my side view , now useing natal a first person game like
heavy rain style where im useing body movments at times in the game and voice control to play the game to interact with the world and the glasses acting like VR glasses to look around to the sides and on screen in the world for items , i have a very detailed game plan for it plus a story i see ms now useing things like i see in star trek i see natal
as the next level, its boring just useing the controller natal could make story driven game entertaninig again, games like god of war 3 is cool but its over after u beat it most people sell or trade the games when they done but just imagine a mmo using natal and xboxlive with the glasses and u in a living breathen world where u can go out to the clubs meet people ,drive there see urself driving there interactting with a world like grand thief but with real people , u can use a custom joystiq for the game for movement and ur hands with natal thats what i see happen in gaming a world where u can break the rules make freinds and be who u want in the world from a night club owner to a car dealer its a mmo that uses part of the sims ideal meet grand thief world useing natal it would be off the hook, thats where i see gaming thats where Ms will take it
#27 (Edited 1903d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
darkequitus  +   1903d ago
Why have a Natal event all to itself, only to blow everything early just to satisfy HHG?
zero_cool  +   1902d ago
@All playstation move fanboys,skeptics & haters out there...Sony already has all the marketing for playstation move into place.Sony already has plenty of studios with projects for playstation move in development including internal studios as well.Sony has already showcased & demonstrated that playstation move offers a lot of diversity & possibilities on all fronts.Sony has proven over & over how easy it is to implement playstation move into any type game & how well playstation move works in any type of game.So stop worrying & stop hating on playstation move it will do fine people so give all this nonsense talk a rest.
TwistedMetal  +   1902d ago
natal is crap and M$ isnt showing it becuase they a bunch of cowards
They got in over there heads and wasnt expecting people to find out how stupid the natal idea was. the ps move has a vision cam and move motes. Sony has the best of both worlds and thats a fact. I dont even know how you guys can even spin that. PS move uses both M$ and Wii's motion controls in one. Im sorry but im gonna have to call the psmove the better device. Not to mention ps3 has the most power and the cell allows for so much compution power that it can make so many calculations so fast. Ps3 can do a better milo then the x360 can.

Its so amazing to see so many x360 fanboys sit there and defend natal which will be the downfall of there system. They already only got like 3 exclusives each year and they are the same halo, gears, and fable lol. WIth natal dont count on haveing any new games.
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