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Does Bioware Have The Right To Criticize SquareEnix?

Jaekuro from GamesOnSmash writes, "We’ve all seen Strategy Informer’s interview and read the words in big bold print:

“You can put a ‘J’ in front of it, but it’s not a RPG,” Daniel Erickson, Writing Director, Bioware
Of course Square Enix fans take this as a personal attack but, there is a small bit of truth to that statement. As much as we all don’t want to admit it, Square Enix has been falling off the map lately and Final Fantasy XIII didn’t exactly bring them back into the game. But I digress, does Bioware really have the authority to criticize on what makes an RPG and what doesn’t?

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N4GAddict2683d ago

I didn't really see it as a criticism in the first place.

Darkstorn2683d ago

The two make COMPLETELY different games...

I think this is in reference to Bioware alleging that FF13 wasn't a 'true' RPG.

Reibooi2683d ago (Edited 2683d ago )

I don't think have the right to criticize. As Darkstorn mentioned they are to completely different types of games. SE at least tried to make a completely new game and change the JRPG genre. Sure they have varying levels of success depending on who you ask but the point is they tried.

Bioware on the other hand relies on the same old formula with a different skin on it. Dragon's Age is nothing but Baldurs Gate with now gen graphics and as much as I love it Mass Effect is nothing but Baldur's Gate with a Sci Fi theme and a shooting mechanic. They are not TRULY new games. Yet they criticize SE for trying something new and they criticize everyone other Japanese Dev for NOT trying something new. So basically all Japanese games are inferior according to Bioware which is just wrong.

ShinMaster2683d ago (Edited 2683d ago )

ME2 isn't even an RPG. It's a genuine Third-person shooter (with the ability to change your dude's face and hair with branching dialog).
Baldur's Gate is definitely more of an RPG than ME.

BTW, I'm not hating or saying it's a bad game.

MechaGear2683d ago

I may repeat what I wrote on the same topic in another thread, but I don't consider any computer or console rpg a "true" rpg.
There is way more to real rpg's than building up skills.
As for branching dialogues, I wouldn't even had recognized them as rpg specific.
Whatever they say about ff xiii or jrpg in general, bioware is not creating true rpg's either.

Reibooi2682d ago

@ShinGino

If you asked those at Bioware what Mass Effect is they would say it's primarily a RPG with a shooter mechanic. It's funny you mention it's not a RPG at all because that's what Bioware was saying against Final Fantasy XIII which is FAR more of a RPG then Mass Effect 2 is. Yet you don't see Bioware leveling criticism at themselves.

The sad thing is Bioware seems to think that because they have levels and because they have moral choices or a dialog tree that their game is more of a RPG then Final Fantasy or whatever other JRPG is out there. The fact is though that almost EVERY game out there is starting to have elements that Bioware claims is what makes their games RPG's(Dialog tree, Moral Choices, levels,etc) Yet all those games are not RPG's. So why should Bioware have the right to claim they make RPG's but SE didn't make a RPG with Final Fantasy XIII?

Seriously do we have to call Gears of War 3 a RPG now because it will have RPG elements when it comes out?

pippoppow2682d ago

"Bioware on the other hand relies on the same old formula with a different skin on it." So true. Rockstar and Bethesda also do the same yet they are lauded for innovation and freshness. Oh, please.

TheoreticalParticle2682d ago

This is from the WRITING director? Is this the guy practically telegraphed 90% of Dragon Age?

Bioware makes mostly decent games. But they're FAR from where they need to be. The Final Fantasy games are fine, too, but they, likewise are far from where they need to be.

Both sides are trying to defend their poor vision of what an RPG should be like by slagging the others' product, instead of actually trying to make a really good RPG.

Unfortunately for Bioware, I'm getting really tired of their guys talking about how awesome they are.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 2682d ago
WildArmed2683d ago

Do they have the right?
Ofc, Freedom of Speech baby.

But, they could have been courteous.
Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, however wrong / rude it may be.

I havn't played FF13 yet (getting my copy over summer), and I havn't finished ME2 yet.
Did like ME1, despite the dead-slow pacing at times.
Just like I've loved FF-franchise for so long

Darkstorn2683d ago

I'm relatively new to console gaming, as I was a PC gamer throughout the '90s, so I'm really not 'in' on the Final Fantasy phenomenon. I got FF7 from PSN a year ago and haven't played more than the first hour, I just couldn't get into it.

That being said, Mass Effect is a masterpiece, a true PC gamer's game. And KOTOR is even better (in fact, it's the best game of last gen, in my opinion).

While I do favor Bioware, my point is that the companies make games that are polar opposites. As a result, Bioware is NOT justified in its criticism.

iamtehpwn2683d ago

Final Fantasy 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are better than ANYTHING Bioware has ever even touched. The Term "Console RPG" was once used to describe JRPGs.

Fact is, I loved the main characters because I didn't make them--creating a sense of passion about their lives. I loved the story because I cared about the fate of the characters.

Bioware's games are RPG's and Square's RPG's. Difference? Style. Now if you want to debate if XIII was a good game, yes or no. but it was an RPG.

Croaker2683d ago (Edited 2683d ago )

Yeah, that's a matter of opinion. As far as I'm concerned BioWare is the better developer of the two, hell I think that BioWare makes the best RPGs. But as my opinion I've never liked JRPGs.

So don't attempt to pass that off as fact.

And yes BioWare has that right as does anyone else. Criticism should be welcomed by all developers and for the most part it is.

GWAVE.

You can't say that about Dragon Age.

SaiyanFury2682d ago (Edited 2682d ago )

To be completely honest, western RPGs and JRPGs are ultimately incomparable due to the differences in the views of both types. Western types are typically open with a crapload of options to customise your character, while JRPGs are more closed, and story driven. Although recently JRPGs have featured some modicum of customization. FFs 6,7, and 8 were great. They defined RPGaming on the original PS. Some would add 9 as well. X on the PS2. Personally, I didn't care for 9 or X, but that doesn't diminish their presence on the RPG scene. BioWare makes their games for western RPG fans, and they do very well at it. They have an entire legion of fans ready to buy their games, and rightfully so. They make solid games with plenty of the typical customizable options for character creation. And with the relatively recent release of Dragon Age: Origins, they've proven themselves to be able to tell a story.

Ultimately, traditional Japanese RPGs and western RPGs are to different in styles to compare. Speaking about BioWare's comments on FF13; it was too different from conventional JRPG principles. It lacked so many features that many of us would associate with normal JRPGs. FF13 seemed more of an action game than a normal JRPG. Again, that said, Dragon Age was made for BioWare's fans of western RPGs. FF13 was made to appeal to mainstream, non-RPGamers. I'm a longtime traditional JRPGamer, and FF13 actually turns me completely off. Also, I can play Dragon Age on my PC without any bias. I guess it ultimately is left up to the individual.

GWAVE2683d ago

You can slap "Bioware" on it, but it doesn't make it an RPG.

Case in point, Mass Effect 2.

Akagi2683d ago

That makes you sound like a butthurt weeaboo.

Jerk1202682d ago

No, see, slapping BioWare on it doesn't make it an RPG, having RPG mechanics does.

GarandShooter2682d ago

RPG mechanics? Like what? ME2 is an awesome game, but it feels far more like a TPS/action/adventure game with dialogue choices and skill trees than an RPG.

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Abriael2683d ago

It sure is a snide remark.

They might have the "right" to criticize whoever they want, but this sure wasn't a classy move. And I say this as a massive Bioware fan that bought every single game they did.
This expecially since their actual quality has been dropping TONS lately, with games released massively bugged and never patched or patched months later (like Dragon Age).

They better shut up and get to work, seriously.

Darkstorn2683d ago

Agreed. They absolutely have the 'right' to criticize, but are they justified? Absolutely not.

kraze072682d ago

Didn't Dragon Age receive patches just weeks after it was released? You must be talking about the console versions.

DaTruth2683d ago

If you didn't play past the end of the game in FF13, you wouldn't think it was an RPG. That is the problem with people who say FF13 isn't an RPG or isn't good; The RPG starts after the game is finished, this was done so the game could appeal to regular gamers and hardcore RPG gamers!

When you max out all your characters and get the best weapons, you can still get stomped by enemies in 3 seconds if you don't know how to fight them!

kindi_boy2682d ago (Edited 2682d ago )

But I can't.

What Square-Enix did with FF13 is sad. They grabbed the FF title by the face and drag it through mud. It was a very liner, very boring story, with very dull characters non of them was original, very gloomy atmosphere,with a very nice battle system and a "HERO" who didn't look like a fag. they took the title to the extreme!

So the outcome of their failed westernized experiment was, a non fag main character and a good battle system. (Think about every game that sells well in the west world, shooter and adventure game) I know there are some exceptions but was left is a good battle system and a cool main character.

I remember FF to be like this...
Amazing story, Original characters, enjoyable battle system, open world (map), cities, nice designs, challenges throughout the game, talking to people in cities, mini games, at least a decent soundtrack, and the signature of having the battle track at the end of every game, a decent dialogue, ofcourse some of them you would have a fag to play as.

I would take the fag any day instead of playing with lightening on that game.

booni32683d ago

he says that bioware will push SE out of the light for good which is hogwash. Now while i love my final fantasies and kingdom hearts a tad more than my mass effects and jade empires, they're all rpgs and in general, all pretty fun to play.
Furthermore, SE helped define the RPG as a genre, bioware should at least respect their elders.

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WMW2683d ago (Edited 2683d ago )

they can criticize the quality of ff13 but have no right to question if it is an rpg or not since their game is basically a tps with rpg elements.

they didn't question the quality of ff13 they said it wasn't a jrpg. and if you can say me2 is an rpg ff13 is one too seeing as it is more of a traditional rpg. also every game you play a role that doesn't make every game an rpg also customizing your character isn't an rpg only feature you can do that in halo.

Bnet3432683d ago

Yes it is. When you play Mass Effect, you role play. You play a role of a character you create with full customization. The shooter gameplay is the their "battle system" Are we going to call Kingdom Hearts an action game with RPG elements? As far as I know, BioWare has been making better games than SE this generation. Hasn't everyone been trashing SE for gimping FFXIII? Hmm ... very suspect. We can all agree SE has been sucking for a while now.

PirateThom2683d ago (Edited 2683d ago )

What makes that an RPG though?

All games could be "RPGs" since you role play in a game. Character creation is irrelevent, it's something added in later games for a touch of personalisation.

For the record, I don't disagree with Bioware making better games than SE, just pushing discussion because I feel the actual role playing element of ME2 are kind of stripped down.

DaTruth2683d ago

You call shooting a battle system?

VideoGameJimmy2682d ago

Since when does the quality of a game determine whether the game is a certain genre or not? For example, Rogue Warrior was a bad game, but it was still a shooter.

By the way, Kingdom Hearts IS an action role-playing game. Mass Effect is an action role-playing game. I think RPG is such a generic term.

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Natsu X FairyTail2683d ago

There's always right for constructive critisism as long it's not done in a way you make the other dev feel bashed or disrespected.

Godmars2902682d ago

Pretty sure this classifies as disrespectful.

dizzleK2683d ago

i think biowares games are closer to the mark of what an rpg is than ff13 was. i'll leave it at that.

imo only the shin megami games have kept the true rpg fires burning these past few years. i'd give my left one for a new devil summoner or digital devil saga.

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