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Natal is 'trying to guess' where people are moving

GamesRadar writes: As you may remember, we attended a motion capture event last week for Tiger Woods PGA Tour Golf. The company doing the mo-cap for EA is called Audiomotion Studios and it's clear that they really know their stuff. They've also been sharing data with Microsoft to help development of Project Natal.

With Audiomotion's cameras costing thousands of pounds apiece and twelve of them placed around the room to capture one person's movement (which is apparently a modest number for a mo-cap event), we had to ask how Microsoft's forthcoming Project Natal (pictured) could possibly come close to achieving the same effect.

Here's how the conversation went between ourselves and Audiomotion's Matt Rank:

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HighDefinition2652d ago (Edited 2652d ago )

Don`t see how this is gonna be much different than the PSeye/Eyetoy. Which doesn`t work well in low lighting, at all actually. Which is part of the reason why the PSmove has the glowing balls on the end. I can`t wait to try Natal out for myself, I do think it looks cool as a browser though.

yess2652d ago

I really don't know..
Im on my way out of gaming, cause it's getting borring and predictible(spell).
Im getting old and have played everything...Almost;-)

This is not going to get me back.
But to everyone, have fun with this, and other gaming stuff...Game on

NateNater2652d ago

Your decision proves that we really need something new and refreshing in the gaming world. Perhaps something at E3 will be revealed that will change your mind.

lowcarb2652d ago

Natal will hopefully prove to be refreshing (although similar to eyetoy)which hopefully will be the step into the virtual era. I'm bored myself and want to one day feel like I really live in a gaming world. Immersion is key but seriously where's my fracking holodeck!

facelike2652d ago

The point is this will remove the lag from Natal when playing Tiger Woods.

If it can guess how you will move, based on how you are standing, you body shape, the way you began you back swing, then it can know how you're going to end up without the camera needing to continue reading your movements.

Thats some really good tech, interested to see if it works.

The Lazy One2652d ago

Natal has it's own light. It doesn't use visual spectrum light to work, it uses IR and has an emitter on itself.

Visible light is only needed for the color camera, which is not needed for the controller to work.

Christopher2652d ago

You need both cameras for 3d viewing, though. The question is if the low-light situation with the normal camera will be good enough alongside the IR camera to appropriately detect one's movement in the game.

I'm waiting for E3 for them to show us more, because if it's anything like my PS3Eye in my gaming area that doesn't have overhead lighting, it will greatly limit my gaming options.

Kushan2652d ago

You don't need both cameras for 3D viewing, the IR camera does that by itself.

Think of it this way - speed cameras (you know, thei hairdryer-esque device the police use?) have only one camera, yet they can detect distances well enough to be used for an accurate measurment of speed.

Christopher2652d ago (Edited 2652d ago )

1. Both cameras are needed because IR Detects heat, but only works on its own if there's only one heat source. Its motion detection capabilities are only relative to tracking heat boundaries. IR by itself has the same issues as a regular camera by itself. Both cameras are absolutely needed if you need to identify and track with an individual limb is doing in a completely 3d space.

2. Speed cameras use lasers, not IR. Non-moving speed cameras use sensors combined with wide-telephoto lenses. The sensors are either ground-installed or lasers installed in addition to the cameras themself. The cameras in this case use the sensors and the rapid shot of two or three pictures in a row for validating speeds of the vehicles being tracked.

Kushan2652d ago

Heat? Where on earth did you get THAT idea? So I guess your remote control for your TV is actually producing HEAT that the TV detects? No, IR is as much light as anything else, it's just a part of the spectrum that we cannot see. Since heat tends to generate IR light, you can argue than an IR camera can detect "heat", but that's not what Natal does. The IR camera detects depth by itself, that's all you need to know.

Christopher2651d ago

God, this is like arguing with a 5-year old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Read up on what infrared is. Specifically Thermography.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Kushan2651d ago

Ok wow, this is amazing. You've managed to Wiki something without actually reading what you've wiki'd!

"Infrared radiation can be used to remotely determine the temperature of objects (if the emissivity is known). This is termed thermography"

Key word there - CAN. This is one of the MANY applications of infrarred light - as I said before, heat tends to produce IR light, but that's not what Natal tracks (Show me once source that says natal tracks heat). Do some research, or better yet, read the rest of that Wiki article and you'll see that IR light has MANY applications:

* 4.1 Infrared filters
* 4.2 Night vision
* 4.3 Thermography
* 4.4 Other imaging
* 4.5 Tracking
* 4.6 Heating
* 4.7 Communications
* 4.8 Spectroscopy
* 4.9 Meteorology
* 4.10 Climatology
* 4.11 Astronomy
* 4.12 Art history
* 4.13 Biological systems
* 4.14 Photobiomodulation
* 4.15 Health hazard

Hint: 4.5 is a good one. You're right about one thing, though, it is like arguing with a 5 year old, except in this case, the 5 year old can't read.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 2651d ago
Parapraxis2652d ago (Edited 2652d ago )

"GR: But you think it will work?

MR: I hope it works, yes [laughs]."

Err that's not much of an endorsement.

LOL @ disagrees. Yes you're right, these guys have all the confidence in the world Natal will work great, no doubt at all!

WrAiTh Sp3cTr32652d ago

Translation: "Since we're helping MS with research for Natal, it would look bad on us if it isn't up to 'snuff'. Seeing as though we are helping them with it."

Parapraxis2652d ago (Edited 2652d ago )

They are sharing data with MS developers, not helping them build or research it.
They (Audiomotion Studios) don't have to worry about any criticism coming their way, nor would they be at fault if there were any.

Natal has to be finished. It's mid-May and MS plans on releasing it in Oct.
MS needs the time to MANUFACTURE and MARKET aka:build more hype for the thing.

This interview is recent.
If Natal is ever going to work as stated shouldn't they be sure of this by now?

Qui-Gon Jim2652d ago (Edited 2652d ago )

It sounds to me like they're working with Microsoft by "sharing data" to test Natal and compare it to what other "full" motion capture systems can do, not helping to develop it. If that is indeed the case, they don't have any stake in Natal's success.

WrAiTh Sp3cTr32652d ago (Edited 2652d ago )

MR: "We're working closely with quite a few different people – DEVELOPERS FROM MICROSOFT who have been analysing our data compared to how Natal sees it. It's just an approximation. They're just trying to guess where people are moving and how people are moving and what it's actually doing, whereas with us we can measure it to sub-millimetre precision. There's a big, big difference there. And obviously the lag and frame-rate is considerably different as well."

Edit: Seriously there needs to be a ignore button....

Parapraxis2652d ago

"We're working closely with quite a few different people developers from Miscrosoft who have been ANALYZING OUR DATA compared to how Natal sees it. It's just an approximation.

You highlighted the wrong part.
Audiomotion Studios is NOT helping them with R&D, simply sharing mo-cap data.
Two VERY different things.

If Audiomotion Studios were helping them R&D Natal you'd have heard about them BEFORE NOW.

Dac2u2652d ago

Parapraxis:
"The company doing the mo-cap for EA is called Audiomotion Studios and it's clear that they really know their stuff."

Regardless of whether they are helping MS research or providing motion capture for a game. They are a company that's part of the development team for EA and in no way would want to put a negative light on how Natal works. So, saying that Audiomotion Studios doesn't have to worry about criticism coming their is completely wrong.

The "I hope it works[laughs]" comment, to me, means he's not sold on the idea either but won't say so, because it could hurt their company. We won't know for sure how well Natal will work until E3, I'll remain a skeptic until then, though.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 2652d ago
Inside_out2652d ago (Edited 2652d ago )

That guy is an idiot...do you think little Natal, with it's Voice activating/reconizing...wirele ss/controllerless design....is better than your 10 thousand dollar set up system at a fraction of the cost...UM...ER...NO...ours is the best...LMFAO...Want to invest...you ONLY need 12 camera's, a team of technicians, and a super computer....CHEAP...

Biggest2652d ago

Yup. That's exactly what just happened there. He made a sales pitch to all of the 360 owners that want to make a movie using motion capture.

I know a nice woman that can help you learn basic reading. She's very good with ages 3-6. That may be a bit advanced for you, but we'll work it out.

niceguywii602652d ago (Edited 2652d ago )

Yes you get disagrees when you are a troll that can't even comprehend the articles.

How long are you guys going attack Natal for being more advanced than the PS eye? So what if it's getting all the attention and 95% of developer backing and support. I guess it will always be this way because Natal will open up the sales gap more than it has ever been open.

IdleLeeSiuLung2652d ago

If Natal does well, it would make Audiomotion Studios look like fools for needing 12 cameras to the casual public.

Although, reality is that 12 cameras and sub-millimeter measurements are something that is possible with extremely complex setups and extremely costly.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2652d ago
BeaArthur2652d ago

It can guess where I am...on my couch with a controller in my hand, just like I will be when I'm playing PS3. Not interested in either one.

Christopher2652d ago

So far, the only motion game that I have full interest in is the Move Table Tennis one. But, that's just not enough for me to invest in the whole package. So, right now, I'm in the same boat as you BeaArthur.

mrv3212652d ago

I won't be buying Natal and very unlikely to buy Move. If I wanted to jump around like and idiot I'd buy a Wii, if I want to relax I'll play my 360/PS3

waltercross2652d ago

If you wanted to Jump around like an Idiot why buy the Wii? Isn't that $250? unless you already have a Wii, we already have a Wii but I'll still get the Move since i can play all kinds of games on one system. But that's just me.

Hank Hill2652d ago

"We're working closely with quite a few different people – developers from Microsoft who have been analysing our data compared to how Natal sees it. It's just an approximation. They're just trying to guess where people are moving and how people are moving and what it's actually doing, whereas with us we can measure it to sub-millimetre precision. There's a big, big difference there. And obviously the lag and frame-rate is considerably different as well."

That's not good at all.