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Bioware: "You can put a J in front of it, but Final Fantasy 13 isn't an RPG"

Talking with Strategy Informer about the upcoming release of Star Wars: The Old Republic, Daniel Erickson, Writing Director for Bioware said that Final Fantasy XIII isn't an RPG. This was in reply to a question about the main staple of The Old Republic being its story, and how the game might be affected without good game play to support it, much like Final Fantasy XIII was.

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ActionBastard2715d ago

"You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's."

Pennywise2715d ago

FFXIII didnt seen like an adventure to me... more like a chore.

4pocalyps32715d ago

EXACTLY how i feel about playing ff13 and i LOVE the franchise. I still haven't managed to bring myself to complete it -__-

Pennywise2715d ago

I returned it without completion. I just couldn't do it. I played for about 11 hours... more than enough time to get into a game.

Thanks for the bubbles, but is it even possible to get above 3 bubbles anymore, or are +bubbs just to counter the negative bubbles?

thor2715d ago

The old Final Fantasy died after FFX.

FFX-2... sucked
FFXI... completely different
FFXII... very different and disappointing
FFXIII... very different and sucked

Instinct_Gamer2715d ago

@ thor

Final Fantasy X was pretty garbage too.

Heisenberg2715d ago

I was a huge FF fan since VII came out in '97, then I went back and played the rest of em. I loved every Final Fantasy up until X. I didn't care for X like most others seemed to, I found the voice acting cheesy and annoying, and the game seemed to take on a less mature tone, it was like a PG13 version of a FF, watered down to appeal to a wider audience. I also think to make a game like FF work with voice acting, you have to have great voice actors, and they have yet to deliver anything but cringe worthy, eye-rolleriffic voice acting IMO.

I feel like the old Final Fantasy style is gone, where the heart of the game was a profound little story with an epic journey. The fact that they were pushing the limits in graphics and what-not was just icing on the cake. XIII was by far the biggest disappointment yet, now it's as if they decide on a simple point A to point B style of gameplay, and then fit a generic cliche ridden story into it, whereas the gameplay used to accommodate the story, so the story didn't have to fit into such a basic mold.

SE has been surviving solely off the reputation Squaresoft built by making the best RPGs in the biz, and now, as much as everyone wanted to root for them, SE has tarnished that impeccable reputation, to say the least.

All I can say is I hope VSXIII is a complete turnaround, but either way, I'll be renting first, I used to just buy the newest FF day 1 no questions asked... Those days are over, at least as things currently stand. I don't know if XIII is a Jrpg or not, all I know is that it fücking sucked.

Bolts2715d ago

A ghey and annoying chore at that. All the characters are a bunch of annoying emo, melodramatic teenagers, its as if the game was designed to appeal to 15 year old girls. I couldn't play this game for more than 30 minutes without laughing out loud at the stupidity of lines like "mothers are tough", and "your hero is here!".

Then there is Hope. A little kid who wanted to get "tougher" so he can work up the courage to tell Snow what an a-hole he is for killing his mother. If that isn't stupid and silly then I don't know what is. I can't imagine why any developer would want to insert such a character into any game.

SaiyanFury2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

@ Heisenberg

You pretty much summed up how I feel about the series. FF7 brought me into the series and I adored it on the original PS. I, like you, got disenfranchised with FFX. Personally, I know I'm in the minority here, but I loved FF12, being done by the boys that did Final Fantasy Tactics, a game I still love to this day. I've never tried FF13 simply because of all of the things S-E stripped from it to make it appeal to mainstream gamers instead of JRPGamers. Also, good call on S-E capitalising on the name SquareSoft made in the 90s making the best RPGs. Very true, and also very sad....

Eamon2715d ago

yeah FF13 is a chore. I've played just over 20 hours because I've been told it starts becoming an RPG once you're in Pulse.

As in, you can actually free roam and have side quests.

But 20 hours of linear levels, p`ss-easy battles and tiring story, I cannot believe it till I see it!

galmi2715d ago

same here, was too redundant and didnt even have the ff feel to it, it really is the worst ff I've played so far

Millah2715d ago

My thoughts exactly. I used to be the biggest fan of Squaresoft and JRPGs. Gotta say, for a huge JRPG gamer like myself, this gen has been quite a disappointment. Its a bit depressing to see Japanese developers struggling to recapture their past glory in the face of an increasing Western influence on the industry. Kinda sucks but oh well.

All I can say is that the Squaresoft and Enix merger, with Yoichi Wada becoming CEO, has been the worst thing to happen to the JRPG genre. That, in my opinion, is what killed JRPGs. Its been trickling down ever since then and is now just becoming more and more apparent.

I'm really hoping for Suikoden 6 to come out soon. Suikoden 5 was the last JRPG released that was still truly amazing, in my opinion, so I'm still hopeful they can make more magic.

DaTruth2715d ago

That was your mistake! It only really becomes an RPG once you finish the game and start the trophy hunt!

200 hours, full power characters and all weapons later and enemies can still stomp you in 3 seconds! There are also a ton of goals to complete and reasons to run all over. The only chore is the amount of work you have to put in to actually get the strongest weapons and the weapon assembly system is amazing with disassembly bonuses.

You guys must have been in it to hate it, because you never really gave it a chance. The game was designed to appeal to both hardcore RPG'ers and regular gamers, that is why you don't need anywhere near full weapons to end the story, but the rest of the game is much deeper.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 2715d ago
Noctis Aftermath2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

He is completely right, i just hope square actually sees where they went wrong and tries to correct it and not just deny it and spew out a game with the same features.

I guess we will find out once FF Versus 13 releases.

booni32715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

ha, read the blogs.

eggbert2715d ago

they are just trying to "westernize" and are failing badly.

Tomdc2715d ago

It sold a lot and i liked it. But then I'm in what seems to be the minority that liked final fantasy 12 more than the series predecessors :P

Regardless of your personal feelings for the game though... Final Fantasy 13 is 100 times more RPG than Mass Effect 2 Bioware XD

WMW2715d ago

lol mass effect 2 is barely an rpg too so they shouldn't be talking.

Rush2715d ago

To be honest anything success gets hated on here on N4G. Not calling anyone fanboys but people here always support the underdog.

Here's a list of success franchise that get hated on.

1) Halo (Because it's the most successful none family IP this and last generation)
2) Xbox 360 (Because it's been profitable for the past 2 year PS3 turned a profit this week apparently not saying it's a better console just more successful from a business standpoint)
3) Nintendo (Because they basically came out of nowhere and kicked Microsoft and Sony in the nuts this generation)
4) Final Fantasy (Because it's the biggest and most successful J-rpg series ever)
5) COD (Because it's the most sucessful multiplatform IP this generation why I don't know the only decent call of duty game is 2, 4 is for morons)
6) Valve (Because this company is godlike and the only reason the PC is still a viable gaming platform)
7) Activision (Because there the biggest games developer on the planet at the moment although I here EA is quite close)

Sure there are other reasons for the hate, But n4g has a proven track record of routing for the underdog.

COD 4 the game for all morons alike is the best example. When that was released everyone routed for it being the underdog against Halo, But when the game it's self became a big dog everyone routed for BFBC2.

N4G likes the underdog but I wouldn't take the opinion of people on here as how the masses feel because it's so not.

Can you see the pattern

XabiTheHumble2715d ago

or it could be because some people realize that the majority of commercialized products are garbage and the only reason products like these receive fame is because most of society dribbles from the mouth.. just a thought.

Millah2715d ago

Yes Mass Effect 2 isn't much RPG...however Dragon Age Origins IS. A great one that is. So its not like Bioware has no credibility anymore, they can still make fantastic RPGs.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 2715d ago
AAACE52715d ago

It's different from past entries but is still pretty fun! I almost wonder if they should have tried to start a entirely new IP with the design of the game, but they were probably depending on the namesake to grab people and get them into this new direction SE plans on taking all of their games.

Cold 20002715d ago ShowReplies(5)
Chubear2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

fight! fight! fight! fight! fight!

ps/ Cold, you seem to be just a bitter troll. Who the heck said Demon Souls is a JRPG... and why would they? It's an Action RPG and it's incredible. Chillax.

frjoethesecond2715d ago

So is Demons souls made by a non Japanese company? Last I checked the J in Jrpg meant Japanese. Therefore DS is Both a JRPG and ARPG.

Chubear2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

this should be well known by now.

There have traditionally in the past been generally 3types of sub-genres for RPGs: Japanese RPG (JRPGs) Action RPGs (ARPGs) and Strategy RPGs (SRPGs)

Nowadays (especially) these sub genres have all sorts of blends but their foundation is usually the same staples.

JPRGs are a certain type of combat stlye that different to SRPG or ARPGs. They are often very whimsical in nature and though they may have strategy or action elements blended in their gameplay, they have a distinct gameplay mechanic from SRPGs and ARPGs. This style of gameplay is known to be very popular with JPN gamers and in the past, JPN developers have heavily focused on that market with their RPGs, thus the coined name JRPG.

e.g, Final Fantasy series, Lost Odessy etc

SRPGs may have similar story attributes to JRPGs but they're gameplay mechanics differ in the way the Xters move in particular set pieces around a battle zone. They don't typically have free flow to their battles and are the most rigid/structured/confined in their gameplay mechanic

e.g Valkyria Chronicles, Dynasty Tactics etc

ARPGs have way more fluid action in their gameplay and battles than these two sub genres. They maybe reffered to as WRPGs (Western RPGs) cause their style usually caters to western tastes and were made by western developers more often than not in the past. Their battle system is a lot more dynamic than the other two

e.g DEMON SOULS

Cold 20002715d ago Show
The Wood2715d ago

i hear your point

but you sure are a bitter one intchya

aaronisbla2715d ago

cold is always pretty f*ing bitter, but he makes a good point imo ( can't believe im saying that ) I think most people who use the term JRPG know good and well exactly what it entails, we don't use it on rpgs that hail just from japan, but it has a japanese style of gameplay and story telling.

As great as Demon Souls is, i think people can only call it an action RPG, if you call it a jrpg, its only because it was developed in japan, nothing more. It has nothing the standard jrpg would have. nor does it have many of the things that makes common wrpgs a wrpg.

DaTruth2714d ago

Than explain what the Hell a WRPG is and then you will see the point of the people who call Demon's Souls a JRPG.

You will not be able to because the whole WRPG thing has changed the meaning of JRPG, since WRPG really has no meaning except an RPG made outside Japan.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 2714d ago
Double Toasted2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

Just going from the title I can say that...neither is ME2.

DARK WITNESS2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

I actually agree... I was kind of thinking, well who are they to go and say that after ME2. It was a great game yes, but in my opinion it wasn't anymore RPG then games like Saints Row 2. I mean you can change the look of your character in that and you can progress with the story at your own pace ( and lets face it, at least the side quests were more fun the scanning F"^%king planets !! )

In fact, I am sure if you worked out per square foot the area space that you are actually able to walk around in and explore saints row 2 is prob bigger. ME gave the illusion of being huge because of all the flying around you did. when you were out of the ship and going round the free roaming sections of the planets and stations they were really small spaces with not much to explore at all. My guess is BW filled up all the space with planets so you F"%^$king planet scan for hours and they can say the is more then 9hrs long.

sorry I am in a ME2 bashing mood now!

Double Toasted2715d ago

Yeah, I'm right there with you. ME2 is awesome, but the 2 gripes I have with the game is the cover system(afer playing Gears, ME is kind of finicky to me) and the whole auto-apply of your perks and what not. Thats a big part of playing an rpg to me, fooling around upgrading your character and weapons. When they put that on auto-pilot...geez. I'm probably the only one that like scanning/mining the planets.

DARK WITNESS2715d ago

lol, to be honest, at first I didn't mind the whole planet scanning thing because I really though it would lead to some really cool locations and what not.

but after playing through half or more then half of the game and realizing the most exciting thing I would find was Element Zero,
then add to that the fact that I had finished the game in 2 days and most time had been taking up by scanning planets and getting nothing really good from it - I felt like I had been coned.

And they took out driving round in the rover because people thought that sucked only to replace it with something even more monotonous...

ya, I suffered planet scanning rage for a week after that.

Aloren2715d ago

Hmmm... RPG means role playing game, i'd say, you have a lot more influence on the role you're playing in ME2 than you do in FF13 (though I own and love both games).

Megaton2715d ago

I've got a friend who was keeping his 360 solely for ME2 because he loved the first one so much, and he was extremely disappointed with it because of how much it strayed away from being an RPG.

I played ME2 before ME, and while I really do like ME2, I completely understand what he meant now that I'm playing through ME. Everything is incredibly linear and streamlined in ME2 compared to the first, like a TPS with vague RPG elements.

karlowma2715d ago

I was also extremely disappointed with ME2, especially considering Mass Effect was one of my favorite games ever. They stripped most of the RPG elements out of the game, and left me with a completely unsatisfying action-fps title with barely a shadow of character development, zero inventory management (replaced by the worst equipment upgrade system ever), and episodic missions complete with a score tally that made me feel like I was playing through levels, not an evolving experience.

Jack Klugman2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

well dont go buy the title and read the article and you will see the criteria they laid out for RPG ME2 most defiantly is. If you say its not then demon souls is not an rpg either.

ALFAxD_CENTAURO2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

Double post.

ALFAxD_CENTAURO2715d ago

Is a Shooter with RPG elements.

duplissi2715d ago

well to be honest to say that bioware doesnt have the right to say that after ME2 is a little ignorant because just MONTHS before that they released dragon age, and dragon is most definitely an rpg (really good one too) anyway i think of mass effect as a new breed of rpg "rpg shooter" which is for the people who dont give a damn about stats but still have control over the story.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 2715d ago
tplarkin72715d ago

I've been burned too many times by Square Enix. They need to have a phenomenon, and after the phenomenon gets stale, I might pay attention to one of their games.

hamoor2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

final fantasy just went wrong after ffx,i had more fun replaying ffvii again on the psn than playing ffxiii for the first time

miyakoS2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

choices aren't necessary to role play a character, and neither is character creation. These are developer TECHNIQUES to encourage rapport for Western gamers with short attention spans and limited imagination; these devices are some of the means and not the end in of themselves... Role-playing games can be great with or without relying on such time-tried methods. Just because Dungeons & Dragons did something one way doesn't mean role-playing games for all eternity have to follow its precedent.

almasy9192715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

LOL, typical jrpg fanboy. Yeah, those darn modern JRPGs are filled with amazing ideas and imagination. None of those typical rehashed tropes and designs, nope. Can't be that most of them are aimed at Japanese teenagers and as such many of their stories don't rise above more than save world, get girl(but not really!), and oh right, 8th grade level philosophy.

FFXIII according to its developers had more in common with an FPS than an RPG, so yeah, I'll go ahead and agree with Square Enix and say it ain't an RPG and consider it a lame adventure game with limited interactivity with yourenvironments. Yay.

Redempteur2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

"None of those typical rehashed tropes and designs, nope"
Are you talking about rpgs as a whole because Wrpgs are suffering from the same problem Jrpgs have ( lack of innovation )

Interractivity with environnements was NEVER the main focus of jrpgs.
Jrpgs focus on the story they have to tell or on their battle system (or both ) interractivity ? it's not revelant at all ..

Esena2715d ago

I don't believe he was speaking like a jrpg fanboy at all...what he said was simply true. A role playing game doesn't need to involve character creation and choices, a rpg can thrive on quality character development and customization with a engaging story.

The main problem with modern FFs is that they take away a "main" character. They give you choice, but in the wrong area! The greatness about each other FF is following the main character and caring about him/her. 12 and 13 do not center around any main character and actually have some pretty terrible character progression all together.

Please SE go back to making quality RPGs....Chrono Cross comes to mind...

miyakoS2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

Dude you'll notice I never defended Final Fantasy XIII or JRPGs in general. Did I say FFXIII was a good game? You're the typical gamer with limited attention to detail. All I've said is that RPGs do not need choice or character creation, whether they're made in the West or the East, and that Western gamers who fuel stupid arguments like how a game doesn't let you choose your avatar's personality isn't really a RPG need to shut up already.

Redempteur2715d ago

Someone please tell him the difference between Jrpgs and Wrpgs!!

booni32715d ago

No, they are the RPGs bioware makes.

tinybigman2715d ago

But ME2 is more a TPS then an RPG, so please Bioware shut your mouths and just make your games.

I love FF13, ME2 and even though ME2 is the better made game I've put in more then a 100 plus hrs into it while only putting in 30 for ME2 with the disappointing final boss.

Please don't start making me hate you like I do turd-10, crater face, and peter m.

duplissi2715d ago

they do and i do believe dragon age is very very rpgish, so i think its safe to say that they are still credible rpd devs. i agree with them to a point about ff13.

anywho while i think this comment was unnecessary i dont however think they are even nearing turn tens level of absurdity, and its not like ME2 and ff13 are competing for the same audience anyway.

Sevir042715d ago

but he's actually right. FFXIII actually felt like an adventure game and NOT and RPG!!!! it felt more like a Japanese adventure game with RPG elements.

sikbeta2715d ago

BAM! There you got, in Wada's Face!!!! lol

SE needs to get back to it's ROOTS and stop with the whole "westernization" crap

Army_of_Darkness2715d ago

as dissapointed as I was with FF13, you still cannot talk sh1t like that about Final fantasy! SE will put you in your place when they release FFvs13!!!

2715d ago
Abriael2715d ago

Bioware should think about the quality of their own games, that lately has been plummeting (and I say this as a Bioware fan), before even thinking about criticizing others.

Tony P2715d ago

Imo no RPG they've made has matched the overall quality of BG2. They have made stellar RPGs since, but nothing with that level of depth.

ME I think is very typical of what so-called good RPGs have become: Action RPGs.

Which is fine. I don't have to have turn-based anything. It is however, unfortunate that the games seem to lose so much depth in the transition.

Anon73492715d ago

He's not right. He's completely wrong.

Whether you can choose what happens in the story or not, whether you can be good, evil or not choice at all, whether you can make choices or not.. you STILL PLAY A ROLE AS A CHARACTER.

Yes, that does mean 99.9% of games are infact "RPGs."

Although video games itself have this whole thing with genres mixed up. There's hardly any controversy if a movie is a romance or a thriller...

Videogame genres should be based on what theme they are, whether it be Horror, Comedy, Action, ect and not what the gameplay is unless it's something like an arcade like, racer or something like that.

Maybe we need a completely different way of telling people how the gameplay is.

Homicide2715d ago

FFIX, VI & IV were the great ones. Shame, the series went downhill after IX.

Ninja-Sama2715d ago

FFXIII was the lamest experience I've had this gen. There's only so much walking in a straight line and going into battle after battle that I can take.

Reibooi2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

@Action Bastard

Yeah and you never did any of those things in any of the other Final Fantasy games either yet those are still J-RPG's.

This is just another example of Bioware trying to down the JRPG genre and make themselves look like pompous gods.

One could argue that Mass Effect 2 isn't a RPG and is just a shooter with a really good story and leveling system(I mean how many games these days have tons of choices for the player and are not considered RPG's?

They need to stop talking and just make games. I love their games Mass Effect 2 is all I have been playing lately but they really need to stop talking because the more they talk the more I lose respect for them. All they seem to do is try to cause drama each week with a new interview in which they are bashing SE or JRPG's in general.

FACTUAL evidence2715d ago

Honestly, with all the continuous fighting i did in ff13, they should of just put random battles in the game sheeze.....I must say I would rather have random battles than play ff13 again.

Varodor2715d ago

and it say guys who create gears with rpg elements...

Denethor_II2715d ago

I didn't like this game and got about 10 or so hour into it and gave up. After completing my stellar line up of PS3 games I thought I would give it another try and am now 20+ hour in and can honestly say its a great game. The combat for me is the main point as its so engaging. It doesn't give you a moments thought as you try to reach that stagger point. Its a Action/Western/(slight)RPG with anime characters.

bakasora2714d ago

the downfall of squarenix

ELite_Ghost2714d ago

more like JPOS
Piece of sh1t!

+ Show (25) more repliesLast reply 2714d ago
ClownBelt2715d ago (Edited 2715d ago )

Well at least it's better than any of your RPG bioware.

@Harry

That's true.

BannedForNineYears2715d ago

Oh snap, you went there.

But I should seriously look up the definition of "RPG", I realize it stands for role playing game.
But isn't every single game ever created technically a role playing game? xD
Uncharted 2, you take the roll of Nathan Drake, you play the game.....It's a game.
Roll playing game.......
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