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720p != 1080p

Naughty Dog programmer John Hable writes:"Back when we were moving frm SD to HD, one of the more fashionable arguments was that if you have normal vision then you can’t tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. Every once in a while this argument comes up, so I thought I’d address it because it sheds light on a common misconception about aliasing and how our eyes work."

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MetalFreakMike2660d ago

This article is most likey defending games in 720P. On my tv, I can see the difference in pixels and I much rather have 1080P then 720P. To each their own I guess.

kaveti66162660d ago

You should most likely read the article.

Anon19742660d ago (Edited 2660d ago )

What I had previously heard was that you can't tell 720p from 1080p on anything smaller than a 50" screen. I don't know if that's true or not but I must say from my experience with a 1080p home theater projector on a 93" screen, 720p looks good, 1080p looks mind blasting.

If it weren't for my desire to see new movies in all their glory I'd never leave the comfort of my own home. Now for gaming, boy howdy! Sure you have to buy a new bulb every couple of years but if you've got that space for a home theater setup I'd strongly recommend it to anyone considering upgrading their TV.

Shang-Long2660d ago (Edited 2660d ago )

Regardless, it'd be nice to have all games at that resolution. I know they say it's a waste but I can tell a differnce.. Well I think I can lol

ChrisW2660d ago (Edited 2660d ago )

Anyway...

Has anyone ever tried playing a game with lower resolution with graphics maxed on their PC?
If you have, then (not THAN in this situation) you understand my point.

ColdFire2659d ago

A big problem, is outside of PC, there are almost no true 1080p games. On both consoles there are only about 6 1080p games, and they aren't AAA games that many people have. So when a console user tries to compare MW2 at 720p, and at 1080p, it will look similar, as both are being rendered at 600p.

On PC I have a 22" screen, I can easily see the difference between 1080p and 720p, and playing a game at <1080p just feels weird.

El_Colombiano2659d ago

ColdFire you hit the nail on the head. Couldn't have said it better my self.

Pekka2659d ago

@ColdFire: But you probably look your PC from around 3 feet distance. You would need over 50" inch screen if you watch TV from 8 feet distance to see the same difference between 720p and 1080p. 22" screen from 3 feet is exactly the same as 44" TV from 6 feet distance.

JustTheFactsMr2658d ago

"On both consoles there are only about 6 1080p games,"

On the 360 that's true.

On the PS3 there are 40+

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 2658d ago
NamelessTed2660d ago

Maybe you should read the article before you make a comment about it.

Montrealien2660d ago

as others stated, check it out. Its pretty good.

Faztkiller2660d ago

He's got some other cool articles on there

sid4gamerfreak2660d ago

there is a huge difference between 720p and 1080p, there are approximately 60% more pixels...

Hideo_Kojima2659d ago

I have a 37" 720p
and a 32" 1080p and I think my 720p looks better then the 1080p.

I think it is better to buy an expensive 720p then the cheapest 1080p youcan find.

But if you want to spend £700+ it will be more clear.

Basically not all 1080p TVs are better than 720p TVs other things play a huge role as well in my case a bigger role (refresh rate, contrast, plasma/lcd, etc)

2659d ago Replies(3)
ColdFire2659d ago (Edited 2659d ago )

Most 360 games are 720p, almost none are 1080p, several are <720p.

sid4gamerfreak2659d ago (Edited 2659d ago )

lol consoles cant even do full hd. Hey ps3 fanboys, you know what your console runs on?

And dont get me started on the sub hd which was popular 5 years ago, Xbox 360....

PC = 1080p and more

PirateThom2659d ago

Actually, the PS3 can do full HD.

In fact, there's a number of games in native 1080p, what are you talking about?

baconbits692659d ago (Edited 2659d ago )

@sid4gamerfreak

What about some of these games? Or do they not count because you just don't want them too....

Wolf of the Battlefield: Commando 3 = 1920×1080
Wipeout HD = 1920×1080
Go Puzzle = 1920×1080
GT5 Prologue = 1920×1080
Lair = 800×1080/1600×1080
Ridge Racer 7 = 1920×1080
NBA07 = 1920×1080
NBA08 = 1920×1080
Blast Factor = 1920×1080
Calling All Cars = 1920×1080
Echochrome = 1920×1080
Elefunk = 1920×1080
High Velocity Bowling = 1920×1080
Locoroco Cocoreccho = 1920×1080
Mainichi Issyo = 1440×1080
Pixel Junk Monsters/Racers/Eden = 1920×1080
Rub’a'dub = 1600×1080
Snakeball = 1280×1080
Stardust HD = 1280×1080
Sudoku = 1920×1080
Super Rub-a-Dub = 1600×1080
Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection = 1920×1080

bjornbear2659d ago

yes it can...mostly PSN games but PS3 DOES do full HD

wtf you think Wipeout HD is called Wipeout HD

damn PC elitists...go hump a harddrive

bjornbear2659d ago

PS3 does do HD games, most are PSN titles but they are in full HD

why do you think wipeout HD is called wipeout HD

= full HD

damn PC elitists, go hump your graphics card.

sikbeta2659d ago

No guys, you don't get it, PC makez da 1080pz and da Cryssiz Graphicz....

-_-

hybridtheory122659d ago

Its funny watching people state a point thats not even true. the PS3 does have native 1080p games.

ruiner44822659d ago (Edited 2659d ago )

http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

I only saw 3 or 4 games on the list that are full 1080p, and none of them are graphical powerhouses. And giving a game with nothing going on it a 1080p rez doesn't mean the ps3 can handle it on a full scale title. If the ps3 could have handled 1080p for GOW3 then they would have done it, but it can't. I still love my ps3 but lets get it straight, it doesn't really do full hd rez natively

Edit: Gran Turismo 5: Prologue = 1080p mode is 1280x1080 (2xAA) in-game while the garage/pit/showrooms are 1920x1080 with no AA. 720p mode is 1280x720 (4xAA) Not true 1080p

Hallmark Moment2659d ago (Edited 2659d ago )

GT5-p isn't 1080p native. The rest are PSN titles. XBLA has 1080p native games. 1280/1080 That's been known. You can find that out in a second with google.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 2659d ago
MrRaveDave2659d ago

lol! that made my day... bubbles for you sir! :-)

now "excuse me... can anyone point me in the direction of the wormhole?" :-D

El Botto2659d ago

576p != 720p

Dont kid yourselves people. There is only one true HD media console. And thats from Sony.

edhe2653d ago

You know, both consoles also do 480p, does that mean neither do HD at all?

Oh wait, one bubble... no wonder you're making retarded comments.

Sano642659d ago

the argument is good in gaming but not in tv. TV and movies dont need AA

MNicholas2659d ago

came from all the moron sales people who were trying to push plasma tvs at a time when plasma tvs were not available in 1080p.

Some of them are still pushing 720P because recommending an inferior product is something that sales people do to gain the customer's trust. Once they have the customers trust they know they can easily add on all kinds of useless accessories.

So rather than a good 1080P LCD, customers often end up with a 720P plasmas and a whole bunch of useless junk like "power conditioners."

inveni02659d ago

This article is stupid. The idea of aliasing plays absolutely no part in video watching. Aliasing happens in games, and we all know that 1080p vs 720p is a big difference.

tmt3452659d ago (Edited 2659d ago )

720 vs 1080p is a HUGE difference because your really close to the screen and its allows you to see much more detail in the background and the images look more smooth and crisp. I would imagine for TV's however it would depend how close you are to the screen.

Shepherd 2142659d ago

I honestly do not see the point of all of this, i really dont. If some people find this interesting, im happy for them. But games with sub-HD resolutions have proven to still be beautiful. Metal Gear Solid 4 has a 640p resolution, and it still looked superb. The fact that Halo 3 used a graphics engine that wasnt as up to date as it should have been did not top me from still thinking that it had a gorgeous art style and great lighting effects.

When i play games on my 57 inch TV i cant tell between 1080p and 720p. I dont really care too much either. Im not saying there isnt a difference, but i cant see it. I also couldnt tell which crosses were dotted or solid in that guys test too when i stood a couple feet away from my monitor, so take it as you will.

Solidus187-SCMilk2659d ago (Edited 2659d ago )

Uhhh the bigger the screen the bigger the pixel, therefor bigger TVs need to have a higher resolution to avoid looking worse then smaller TVs and you dont want to sit as close to them either.

A 32in 1080P Tv will look better than a 32in 720P tv and better than a 62in 1080P tv if you standing close to the same distance away from them.

Everyone should be able to tell that 1080P looks better than 720P when they are the same size and same distance away(ignoring other variables). I think people just look at a number and ignore all the variables that are included when comparing resolution.

For example, Uncharted 2 is native 720P and the PS3 sends a 720P signal to my 1080P TV. I usually play on a 32in 720p TV and think it looks better on the smaller TV. Why? because its the same amount of pixels in a smaller space. You need to sit further back from the bigger TV to see the same quality. Now if the game was rendered in 1080P then the bigger TV would look better, even at the same distance probably.
or If I had a 1080P Tv the size of my wall Id have to stand in the street for me to see as good a picture as I see on my 52in.

Im thinking next gen im going to get a medium sized 1080P(~40in) display, as I want a 1080P TV that is smaller as it will have the high resolution crammed into a smaller screen.

I think that tto get the best picture you need to balance resolution, screen size, and viewing distance.

EDIT- The reason why people cant tell the difference between 720 and 1080 in games is that most games are only rendered in 720. THe consoles are not powerful enought to run the graphic intense games in native 1080P.
This argument will be much more important for videogames next gen, and it will be obvious that the difference is quite noticeable.

majorsuave2659d ago

I have a hard time believing people care enough on that debate to write 4 paragraphs to make a point.

And I still can't believe it's not butter.

Fanb0y2659d ago

It's all about the level of detail and environments and the amount of antialiasing, not so much the resolution.

I would have preferred BFBC2 to be 640p 2xAA than 720p no AA.

edhe2653d ago

Yeah imo i'd rather have a nice graphics engine than more res. The latest batch of games with reduced res but better detailed & lit engines appeals to me.

You can get a lot more out of a game experience with deeper lighting effects than you can with more pixels.

Would be nice if they did it all at native 1080p, but we bought consoles, not rigs.

MNicholas2659d ago (Edited 2659d ago )

need to learn a bit about how the eye works.

A doctors exam tests just one aspect of vision. The ability to discern static detail while in a static position. The moment you or the image start moving, that test becomes meaningless. Just as any optician.

This reminds me of all the morons who think that 60fps (1/60th of a second per frame) is the ideal frame-rate for the human eye when, in fact, tests have shown humans able to discern changes in images at over 1/500th of a second.

Blitzed2659d ago (Edited 2659d ago )

I can see a single field in motion. There are 2 fields per frame of video and stepping through a cut in the video will not show a flash of a single field despite it being there. However, in motion I will see that field everytime. It's not the perfect reference to your point but it's an example of how your eyes see things in motion that are not descernable while static.

+ Show (14) more repliesLast reply 2653d ago
Nicholas Cage2660d ago

1080p looks better than 720p on screen sizes 42 and up. its your cornia that does the job, the human eye cannot tell the difference based on the circumstances ive stated.

Theonetheonly2660d ago (Edited 2660d ago )

i look at 26 inch 1920x1200 screen and can tell the difference in all of the images. 1920x 1080 contains almost double the pixel data of 720p to say That this goes unnoticed is like saying "sub pixel font rendering" doesnt improve text quality and readability. more definition. more image.

Nicholas Cage2660d ago

Back when we were moving frm SD to HD, one of the more fashionable arguments was that if you have normal vision then you can’t tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. Every once in a while this argument comes up, so I thought I’d address it because it sheds light on a common misconception about aliasing and how our eyes work.

The argument goes something like this. The human eye can not distinguish between unique features that are below a certain size on your retina. If you have a 720p display that is 12 feet away from you, and you have average vision, then you can not distinguish individual pixels. That’s how eye doctors test your vision. So 720p is enough and 1080p displays are a waste of money. Case closed!

BWS19822660d ago

I see you omitted the "Right?" part of the article after "Case closed!". Nice cherry-picking. The article addresses both points of view and explains some technicalities, and you strategically pasted the part that apparently justifies your own purchase or bolsters your own argument. Just, no...

ColdFire2659d ago

There is NO "this resolution is only noticeable on size X and up", it's all based on viewing distance. On PC at a very short distance you can see the difference easily.

facelike2659d ago

This article is not right. First they say "average vision." What is "average vision?" 20/20 or worst. Are people with huge eye prescriptions being counted with a person with perfect vision? If so, then that brings down the average.

These arguments always come up, and I honestly believe it's a marketing thing. We're told 720 is fine, but that info comes from salespersons trying to sell people TV's they can afford. Also, when a person is not able to afford something expensive, then they constantly rationalize why the lesser product is a better product.

If anyone heard Dolby Pro Logic vs DTS, there is a huge difference in sound. I used to work sales in audio and there were people who swore up and down that less volume, less clarity and a more dull sound was better, just so they didn't have to spend $40 for an upgrade. These same people would also tell all their friends the same.

There are a lot a cheap 720 TV's on the market, and people need to feel good about buying them and not waiting till they can afford the full 1080 TV set. So these silly arguments come up. Having grandma with limited vision saying HD isn't necessary is silly, why is she included in the counting.

If you have good eyesight, then you'll see the difference between 1080 and 720 at any distance. Just expect when 1080 TV's come down in price, there will be articles saying that they suddenly realized that 1080 is better and is now required (like with 3D TV), and they will try to sell you another set. It's all marketing.

Jonray2659d ago

Monitors are different than TV in that their pixels per inch count is higher because it is meant to be closer to your face in your relative personal space, and when an image or application that runs lower than your native resolution is blown up full screen is it easy to see a difference because it is obvious that it is scaling and the image's "pixels" appear larger. For a TV though, it's pixel count is made to fit a LARGER screen with the same resolution as a monitor (1280 x 720 or 1920 x 1080 etc) because it is meant to be seen from a further distance, so scaling won't be evident because it will be too far and too high of a ratio of pixel density to the distance that you are sitting to notice the difference. The only way the difference can be noticed is if the ratio is once again altered by putting the same 720p or 1080p image on a tv twice as large, (80 inches etc.)

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2659d ago
FragMnTagM2660d ago

and there is a huge difference between 720 and 1080 on it.

ambientFLIER2660d ago (Edited 2660d ago )

That's because your face is 12 inches away from it. This is assuming normal viewing distances. I sit 10 feet away from a 42 inch display, and I can't tell the difference.

Solidus187-SCMilk2659d ago

For example, Uncharted 2 is rendered in native 720P no matter what resolution your TV is.

I have a nice 52inch, 120hz, 1080p TV and U2 looks better on my 720P 32inch TV because its 720P in a smaller area and the TV doesnt need to fill unused pixels like my bigger one does(well it does to a lesser extent as the resolution of the 32 inch TV is actually somethingX 768 pixels). To get the same image from the 52inch TV I have to sit back much further.

At the same distance on the same TV, YOU WILL ALWAYS NOTICE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 720P and 1080P UNLESS YOU HAVE POOR VISION.

MNicholas2659d ago

It explains things rather well. There are even more reasons why 1080P is better, even on a 32" in your living room, as I explain in my earlier comment.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2659d ago
MUGEN2660d ago

After using 768p TV's for 5 years and then 1080p for the last 3.5 years I would never go back to anything less. My eye's are ~6ft(perfect for 1080p on my screen size) from my 46" 1080p at all times and your seating distance to screen size is the main reason to upgrade to a 1080p TV. Since I sit so close I can even tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p, 1080i is blurry or out of focus compared to 1080p.

Quote from the article
"So, what resolution is “enough”? In my opinion, it’s the resolution at which you don’t need any anti-aliasing."
I see jaggies even with 32xQAA@1080p, 4/8xAA@1080p is what I would normally use though.

Motion2659d ago (Edited 2659d ago )

While I agree with most of what you're saying, I do want to disagree with being able to tell the difference between 1080p and 1080i. They are the exact same resolution, the only difference is that the p is progressive, meaning all lines in the image are updated at the same time, or i is interlaced, meaning every other line is updated during each refresh. P may have a more fluid look w/ less ghosting effects, but they are running at the same resolution, one will not be blurrier than the other.

MUGEN2657d ago

Every time I change the resolution to 1080i(PC/360/PS3) I get the same slightly blurred/out of focus result so it could be the TV but I doubt it.

PS360PCROCKS2660d ago

Pssh I wouldn't trade my 1080P 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma for my previous 720P 32" Samsung LCD EVER. I can TOTALLY notice the difference, it's very obvious.

PotNoodle2660d ago

Part of that may be the fact you have one of the very best TVs out there.. But yeah, 1080p most certainly looks better than 720p. I can see it even on my 24" and 22" PC monitors as well as my 42" plasma.

Chug2660d ago

But it's not like I'm going to come in here and brag about my Sony Bravia XBR KDL-52XBR4 52-Inch 1080p in my living room, or my Samsung LN40B650 40-Inch 1080p 120 Hz LCD HDTV with Red Touch of Color in my basement.

Droid Smasha2660d ago (Edited 2660d ago )

but I prefer my Sammy LN46B640 46in 1080p 120 Hz LCD in Grey Touch of Color lol

whitesoxfalife2659d ago

I have a 73" from Mitsu, 40" from sony and a 32" from proscan, got to get two more TVs to cover everybody rooms I want the samsung led TV i watched kunfu panda in hi-def at costco simply amazing!!!!!!!!

PS360PCROCKS2660d ago

Lol yeah your probably right deathrow, but 1080P to me is very noticeable on any TV be it a plasma, LED, LCD etc... and chug really? I wasn't bragging I was merely stating what 2 TVs I own as a comparison. BTW my TV is better than both yours.

Biggest2660d ago

This is a true statement. I would punch a baby in the face for a Kuro.

Obama2660d ago ShowReplies(1)